Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
320-326)
JOAN RUDDOCK
MP, MR PHILLIP
ANDREWS, JIM
FITZPATRICK MP, MR
GODFREY SOUTER
AND MR
SIMON COCKBURN
25 NOVEMBER 2008
Q320 Joan Walley: Can I ask how you
intend to actually measure what kind of an impact that is having?
And how have you calculated the improvements will come about?
Jim Fitzpatrick: We have a measure
for heavy goods vehicles to reduce the sulphur content in its
fuel from 0.005% to 0.001% and we expect that there will be similar
reductions in due course in shipping. Godfrey will say some more
about the measurements.
Mr Souter: On the subject of SOx,
sulphur oxides, the compliance can be measured in two ways: firstly,
when ships come into a UK port or in fact any other EU Member
State port because obviously this is something which is going
to apply to all the EU Member States. When they come into any
of these ports it will be possible to check what fuel they actually
have to make sure that they have actually been using a low sulphur
fuel if they have been going through a sulphur emissions control
area. Or, alternatively, because one of the things that the United
Kingdom was very keen to achieve was a goal-based approach—a
goal-based solution, I should say—in the revised Annex VI
they may have scrubbers. If they have scrubber technology so that
they can be using a higher sulphur fuel but their emissions will
still be low sulphur emissions, then that is accepted as well.
The only problem with this is if there are ships which are transiting
through the North Sea and the Baltic and not actually calling
at an EU Member State's port, in which case it is rather harder.
Q321 Joan Walley: What about the
ability of the shipping companies to actually meet these new targets?
Mr Souter: We do not believe this
should be at all difficult. Back in 1996 the protocol was agreed
in the IMO to create—to add—an Annex VI to MARPOL.
I think everybody realised at the time that the SOx standards
there were really rather easy to meet; but the fact of the matter
is that everybody was very pleased actually to get an Annex VI
about air pollution into MARPOL. But the idea that certainly we
and a number of other countries had was that as soon as MARPOL
Annex VI had actually entered force we would look to tightening
up the standards, and that is what we did—we and a number
of other European countries put a paper into the IMO just as soon
as Annex VI was internationally in force, looking to get the Annex
reviewed and to get tighter standards both for SOx and NOx. pa
Q322 Joan Walley: One other thing is
that the Chamber of Shipping has suggested to us that what this
will do is, if you like, put into effect a reverse modal shift
and it will cause more freight to be taken by road rather than
by shipping as a result of the extra costs. How would you actually
prevent that from happening in respect of shipping freight?
Jim Fitzpatrick: We spent some
time negotiating the agreement at international level as a result
of very difficult negotiations where we played a prominent part.
There was some final adjustment to the amendments which were included
in the international agreement and as a result of that we have
had ferry companies lobby DfT in terms of the impact that they
say it is going to have on their business.
Q323 Joan Walley: Do you think it
will have that effect on their business?
Jim Fitzpatrick: What we have
said to them by way of some reassurance, given that the standards
are due to come in in 2015, is that the Maritime and Coastguard
Agency will be carrying out a research project in the new year
to quantify the cost and benefits of the compromised text for
the Annex. They have said what they think the impact is going
to be on them and we treated that seriously enough to say that
we will go and do our own research and check it against their
figures, and we will be having discussions with them again in
due course. But that research project will be done by the MCA
next year.
Q324 Joan Walley: Does the Maritime
and Coastguard Agency have the extra resources to do that?
Jim Fitzpatrick: Yes.
Q325 Joan Walley: Finally, when we
had the IMO here they talked about the contribution that non-CO2
contributions made by shipping, such as black carbon and nitrous
oxide, would be successfully tackled through these improved air
pollution reduction measures and we understand that there was
a former UK representative at IMO—I think his name was Mike
Hunter—who did some detailed research work on that. Could
you tell us what assessment is made of the contribution that this
could make towards reducing global warming?
Mr Souter: Mike Hunter did not
do it personally; Mike Hunter was the chairman of the special
group which was set up by Mr Mitropoulos, the Secretary-General
of the IMO, to look into this. It was an expert group and it pulled
together experts from a number of countries around the world.
They produced an amazingly comprehensive report and I am sure
that we can provide you with a copy of it.[12]
I do not recollect the detail of the actual findings about nitrogen
oxides.
Q326 Joan Walley: Even though you might
not have the detail of it, again can I ask whether or not the
government shares the IMO's confidence that there will be improvements
as a result of this?
Mr Souter: Yes, definitely.
Jim Fitzpatrick: No question.
Mr Andrews: The black carbon factor
there of course is very uncertain.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed
for coming in.
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