Examination of Witnesses (Questions 200
- 219)
WEDNESDAY 29 OCTOBER 2008
SIR PETER
RICKETTS KCMG, JAMES
BEVAN AND
KEITH LUCK
Q200 Sir John Stanley: Does your
Department—and more particularly you, as Permanent Secretary—hold
any view about someone who carries out a function that impinges
directly on the responsibilities of your Department, even though
the individual may report to No. 10? He will be carrying out those
responsibilities while having another job at the same time.
Sir Peter Ricketts: That does
not pose me any problem; this is an unpaid, part-time advisory
appointment.
Q201 Sir John Stanley: Do you
anticipate any conflict of interest arising from this remarkable
situation?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I am sure
that Mr. McConnell would discuss the situation with me if he thought
that there was any conflict of interest.
Q202 Sir John Stanley: Do you
think that he might want to discuss it with the Prime Minister?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I think that
you should probably put that question to Mr. McConnell.
Q203 Sir John Stanley: Do you
think that Mr. McConnell is covered by the ministerial code?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I am not an
expert, but I would say that he is not covered, because he is
not a Minister.
Q204 Sir John Stanley: In that
case, he is in a remarkable freelancing position of carrying out
important representational responsibilities and others. Does not
that give you a considerable degree of discomfort?
Sir Peter Ricketts: It does not,
Sir. John. He is by no means the first person to act as a special
envoy while retaining membership of Parliament. I can think of
the example of Joan Ryan, who served as a special representative
on Cyprus while a Member of the House of Commons without any conflict
of interest arising.
Q205 Sir John Stanley: I am aware
of those precedents, but are you aware of a precedent in which
a representative was actually based in your Department, as you
have said?
Sir Peter Ricketts: Joan Ryan
was based in our Department in her special representative role.
Q206 Andrew Mackinlay: Is he covered
by the Vienna convention—I think that that is the correct
term for the convention that gives diplomatic status? His role
is in conflict resolution, so is that not vital?
Sir Peter Ricketts: I do not think
that UK-based members of staff are covered by the Vienna convention
anyway. I do not think that I am covered by the Vienna convention
when I travel abroad. An accredited diplomat in a third country
is covered by that convention, but a British citizen travelling
on behalf of the Government is not, as far as I am aware.
Q207 Andrew Mackinlay: The nature
of the job is conflict resolution, so I assume that he will be
getting on aeroplanes and going to places that other people cannot
reach, so to a degree he is being put in harm's way. If you do
not know that, you ought to, and surely we ought to. What protection
is afforded to him, in his interests and in ours?
Sir Peter Ricketts: We would ensure,
if he was travelling anywhere risky, that he was given adequate
protection. He travels not as an accredited diplomat, but on the
same basis as a member of my staff in the FCO travelling as a
British subject and civil servant.
Q208 Andrew Mackinlay: You have
met him and your staff have some measure of the parameters of
his function. Presumably, he will frequently be going abroad.
How often will he go abroad and what do you know about what he
will do?
Sir Peter Ricketts: He told me
that he was hoping to spend one or two days a week with us.
Q209 Andrew Mackinlay: Two days?
Sir Peter Ricketts: One or two
days a week—I think that that was his phrase. He said he
would travel perhaps once a month. We certainly see his role as
one of external representation and external contact making on
behalf of the conflict resolution policy developed in Whitehall,
so I would anticipate him going to the United Nations in New York,
to the European Union in Brussels, and perhaps to the African
Union in Addis Ababa to help to develop mechanisms for conflict
resolution.
Q210 Andrew Mackinlay: I do not
understand his role as a member of a national Parliament, which
we know is a full-time job. Even with a bit of licence, we find
difficulties when managing diaries. If you are making a commitment
to go to Addis Ababa, you have to give something up somewhere
else. How can that be justified?
Sir Peter Ricketts: Mr. Mackinlay,
I feel that you are drawing me into commenting on behalf of Mr.
McConnell. I think that you had better pose that question to him.
That is our understanding of his availability with regard to time.
Q211 Ms Stuart: Can Mr. McConnell
give instructions to a civil servant?
Sir Peter Ricketts: No.
Q212 Ms Stuart: So it is an unpaid,
part-time, advisory role without the ability to give instructions?
Sir Peter Ricketts: Correct.
Q213 Ms Stuart: So it is the equivalent
of a Parliamentary Private Secretary, if even that?
Sir Peter Ricketts: It is equivalent
to a number of other special advisers we have had, some from Parliament
and some not. Joan Ryan is one example of someone who was doing
it on an unpaid basis. He is there to give us his time.
Q214 Ms Stuart: May I suggest
that a Member of this Parliament who has been a Minister becoming
a special envoy is actually quite different from a Member of another
Parliament doing so? I just wanted to know about instructions.
Given that we are looking at political appointments,
one previous political appointment is going to run out pretty
soon—the appointment to South Africa. What plans do you
have for that replacement?
Sir Peter Ricketts: We shall be
holding a competition to replace Mr. Boateng in the normal way,
starting shortly.
Q215 Ms Stuart: An open competition?
Sir Peter Ricketts: No, within
the civil service.
Q216 Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: Sir
Peter, one of your departmental strategic objectives is conflict
resolution. There are five outcomes on which your Department is
to be judged, yet here we have someone who is going to be in your
Department, but not answerable to you or the Foreign Secretary,
and doing the same job. If there are differences about how to
resolve conflicts, who is going to resolve this particular conflict?
Sir Peter Ricketts: Are you still
referring to Mr. McConnell?
Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: Yes.
Sir Peter Ricketts: Mr. McConnell's
role is to act as a special envoy to promote the Government's
policy externally.
Q217 Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: But
that is your job. It is here in writing. Not only is that one
of your strategic objectives, but you are down as the lead Department
for this—it is indisputably your personal responsibility.
Here you have someone else coming in and reporting to the Prime
Minister, but being based in your Department and doing the same
job. Do you think that this is good man management?
Sir Peter Ricketts: He is assisting
us to do our job. We have a single HMG policy on conflict resolution,
which the Prime Minister and other Ministers are all a part of.
Whether Mr. McConnell reports to the Prime Minister or to the
Foreign Secretary is not material. He will be there to assist
us in the promotion of our policy, and I welcome that.
Q218 Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: That
is fantastically naive. You are putting in someone who is a political
appointment, with no evident background in this—a politician
like the rest of us, who has received no training. You have full-time
staff who have spent their whole lives preparing for this, but
are elbowed aside by someone who does not report to you. Can you
explain how this has gone down in your Department?
Andrew Mackinlay: Go on, tell us. Make
a name for yourself!
Sir Peter Ricketts: I have honestly
not heard the slightest problem expressed by anyone on that—genuinely.
There is plenty of work to promote the Government's policy on
conflict to go around. I have heard no complaint or difficulty
with the appointment.
Q219 Mr. Heathcoat-Amory: May
I put it to you that, although you are leading this Department,
I do not think that you are showing leadership here? You are making
exactly the same mistake that the Government made over special
advisers. They proliferated, they got into news management, they
got hold of press releases, and then there was a reaction against
them. You are doing exactly the same thing by allowing a politician
in who is reporting to the Prime Minister and doing your job for
you. It is your written responsibility to do this. You are now
allowing someone else to come in and do it for you. It must be
demoralising for your staff. It also institutionalises conflict
in an area in which you are supposed to be resolving conflicts.
You ought to have stood up against this.
Sir Peter Ricketts: I do not accept
that we are institutionalising any kind of conflict. We are talking
about someone who can spend one or two days a week helping us
to promote our policy internationally. He comes with a particular
set of experiences. He will work alongside and with our staff,
and I do not anticipate any difficulty.
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