Formal Minutes
Tuesday 21 July 2009
Members present:
Mike Gapes, in the Chair
Sir Menzies Campbell
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Andrew Mackinlay
| | Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
Sir John Stanley
Gisela Stuart
|
Draft Report (Global Security: Afghanistan and Pakistan),
proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the Chairman's
draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 22 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 23 read.
An Amendment made.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 5, after "countries"
to insert ", particularly the United Kingdom. This is particularly
felt in relation to the deployment in Helmand.". -(Andrew
Mackinlay.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 1
Andrew Mackinlay
| | Noes, 9
Sir Menzies Campbell
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Paul Keetch
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
Sir John Stanley
|
Another Amendment proposed, in line 10, to leave out from "caveats."
to the end of the paragraph, and add "The United Kingdom
must make it clear that the unwillingness of other countries to
commit combat troops is unacceptable. Countries cannot absolve
themselves of their obligations under Article V by praying in
aid caveats or by seeking to help in logistical support or in
non combat roles as a substitute for their full engagement.".—(Andrew
Mackinlay.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 1
Andrew Mackinlay
| | Noes, 10
Sir Menzies Campbell
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
Sir John Stanley
|
Another Amendment made.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraphs 24 to 60 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 61 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 62 to 84 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 85 read, as follows:
We conclude that, while most Afghans do not like
or trust the Taliban or share their extreme views, in the absence
of a functioning, formal justice system, the Taliban's willingness
and ability to dispense swift justice has been accepted in some
Pashtun communities.
Paragraph disagreed to.
Paragraphs 86 to 88 (now paragraphs 85 to 87) read
and agreed to.
Paragraph 89 (now paragraph 88) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 90 to 101 (now paragraphs 89 to 100)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 102 (now paragraph 101) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 103 to 114 (now paragraphs 102 to 113)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 115 (now paragraph 114) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 116 to 126 (now paragraphs 115 to 125)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 127 (now paragraph 126) read.
Amendment proposed, at the beginning, to leave out
to "While" in line 5.—(Mr Ken Purchase.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 5
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
Ms Gisela Stuart
| | Noes, 7
Sir Menzies Campbell
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Andrew Mackinlay
Sir John Stanley
|
Another Amendment proposed, in line 10, to leave out from "unlikely."
to the end, and add "We therefore conclude that the system
of lead roles for the G8 countries should be comprehensively reviewed."
.—(Mr Ken Purchase.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 2
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
| | Noes, 9
Sir Menzies Campbell
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Andrew Mackinlay
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Sir John Stanley
|
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 128 to 132 (now paragraphs 127 to 131)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 133 (now paragraph 132) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraph 134 (now paragraph 133) read and agreed
to.
Paragraph 135 (now paragraph 134) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 136 to 145 (now paragraphs 135 to 144)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 146 (now paragraph 145) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 147 to 161 (now paragraphs 146 to 160)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 162 (now paragraph 161) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 163 to 196 (now paragraphs 162 to 195)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 197 (now paragraph 196) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 198 and 199 (now paragraphs197 and 198)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 200 (now paragraph 199) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 201 to 212 (now paragraphs200 to 211)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 213 (now paragraph 212) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraph 214 (now paragraph 213) read and agreed
to.
Paragraph 215 (now paragraph 214) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 216 to 224 (now paragraphs 215 to 223)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 225 (now paragraph 224) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraph 226 (now paragraph 225) read.
Amendment proposed, in line 10, to leave out "first
and most important priority" and insert "most important
priorities".—(Sir John Stanley.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 3
Sir Menzies Campbell
Sandra Osborne
Sir John Stanley
| | Noes, 8
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Andrew Mackinlay
Mr Malcolm Moss
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
|
Paragraph agreed to.
A Paragraph-(Andrew Mackinlay)-brought up
and read, as follows:
Despite the Government's recent stated commitment
to seek the approval of the House of Commons before deploying
troops abroad,[515]
we note that there has been no affirmative and unambiguous resolution
of the legislature to approve the deployment to Afghanistan, or
more particularly to Helmand. We view this as a democratic deficiency,
especially in the light of the gravity of the situation in which
British troops currently operate. We acknowledge that the deployment
is now a matter of fact, but believe that the Government should
seek to have its decision to deploy British troops in Afghanistan
endorsed by the House of Commons as soon as possible. We conclude
that this should be the case for any such future deployment.
Question put, That the paragraph be read a second
time.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 3
Mr Paul Keetch
Andrew Mackinlay
Mr Greg Pope
| | Noes, 8
Sir Menzies Campbell
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Mr Ken Purchase
Sir John Stanley
|
Paragraph 227 (now paragraph 226) read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 228 to 233 (now paragraphs 227 to 232)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 234 (now paragraph 233) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 235 and 236 (now paragraphs 234 and 235)
read and agreed to.
Paragraphs 237 and 238 (now paragraphs 236 and 237)
read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 239 to 248 (now paragraphs 238 to 247)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 249 (now paragraph 248) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 250 to 278 (now paragraphs 249 to 277)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 279 (now paragraph 278) read.
Amendment proposed, in line 7, after "Afghanistan",
to leave out to the end of the paragraph.—(Sir John Stanley.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 5
Sir Menzies Campbell
Andrew Mackinlay
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Sir John Stanley
| | Noes, 6
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
|
An Amendment made.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 9, to leave out
from "on" to the end and insert "its highest priorities".—(Sir
John Stanley.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
|
Ayes, 5
Sir Menzies Campbell
Andrew Mackinlay
Mr Malcolm Moss
Sandra Osborne
Sir John Stanley
| | Noes, 6
Mr David Heathcoat-Amory
Mr John Horam
Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul Keetch
Mr Greg Pope
Mr Ken Purchase
|
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraphs 280 to 294 (now paragraphs 279 to 293)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 295 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 296 and 297 (now paragraphs 295 and 296)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 298 (now paragraph 297) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 299 to 310 (now paragraphs 298 to 309)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 311 (now paragraph 310) read, amended and
agreed to.
Paragraphs 312 to 318 (now paragraphs 311 to 317)
read and agreed to.
Paragraph 319 (now paragraph 318) read, amended and
agreed to.
Annexes agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report
be the Eighth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman
make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed
copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the
provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the
House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence
reported and ordered to be published on 4 March, 6 May and 24
June.
[Adjourned till Wednesday 21 October at 2 pm.
515 Governance of Britain White Paper, July 2007, CM
7170, page 18 http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm71/7170/7170.pdf Back
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