Examination of Witnesses (Questions 147-159)
RT HON.
DAVID MILIBAND
MP AND MATTHEW
RYCROFT CMG
17 JUNE 2009
Q147 Chairman: Foreign Secretary, welcome,
again, to your daily appearance before the Foreign Affairs Committee!
Mr. Rycroft, we have seen you before; welcome. Today is our pre-European
Council meeting session, which is a regular event, and we are
very grateful to you for coming along. May I begin by asking you
about one of the consequences of the Government reshuffle on 5
June, which was the appointment of the former Europe Minister,
Transport Secretary and Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon as a European
policy adviser? In his new role co-ordinating EU member state
policy on the UN climate change conference, how will Geoff Hoon
work with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and with our permanent
representation in Brussels? What support will he be given from
the FCO?
David Miliband: It is nice to
be back. I now know what subservience to the Select Committee
means, with these daily appearances. In respect of Geoff Hoon,
I do not quite recognise the reference to a climate change co-ordinator.
The Prime Minister made a statement on Geoff Hoon's appointment,
referring to improving co-ordination among EU member states to
meet the economic, environmental and security challenges of European
energy policy, so the focus is on an area where Britain has been
arguing for some time that a common energy policy makes sense
for the European Union. The geopolitics of that is now increasingly
clear—or clearer than it would have been three or four years
ago—because of the concerns about the EU countries' relationship
with Russia. I think that the arguments for a more common energy
policy are pretty clear. Geoff Hoon has a lot of experience, as
you say, on defence and on European affairs. He is going to be
doing two tasks for the Prime Minister, one of which might be
of interest to this Committee in a different context, which is
that he will sit on the wise men's group on NATO reform. I met
the NATO Secretary-General last week to talk about that, and Geoff
Hoon met him with the Prime Minister as well. But on the energy
policy side, there is a sense that we have quite a fragmented
European approach to energy issues. They are obviously closely
linked to environmental and economic issues. So we look forward
to Geoff playing an important role trying to complement the work
that is done, notably in the Cabinet Office and in the Foreign
Office, but I think that the focus that you gave, Mr. Chairman,
on the Copenhagen negotiations is not quite the focus of—
Q148 Chairman: He does not have
a role before the Copenhagen meeting—none at all?
David Miliband: He is not going
to wait until after Copenhagen to start, but he is not part of
a Copenhagen negotiating team.
Q149 Chairman: How is he going
to be serviced—through the Cabinet Office or through the
FCO?
David Miliband: We are just working
on that at the moment. I think that there are some cross-cutting
issues, and the truth is he could be serviced through the Cabinet
Office or through the Foreign Office or through both. That is
what we are going to work on.
Q150 Chairman: Can you give us
a note about what the relationship is and how the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office is related to it when that has been sorted
out?
David Miliband: Of course.[1]
Q151 Andrew Mackinlay: Although
there have been some precedents for this kind of appointment,
this is probably a more substantial one that raises more constitutional
and parliamentary issues. It is happening against the backdrop
of there having been no fewer than 11 Europe Ministers since Labour
came into office, which invites the question: what is the role
of the European Union Minister? Surely, these kind of things are
core business for him or her. If this person has such an important
role, as you have just told us, dealing with Russia in relation
to energy—I might have misunderstood you, but I thought
that that was what you said—there is a question of answerability,
accountability and mandates, because presumably interlocutors
with Russia have to be able to say yes or no or whatever.
So I think that the matter raises quite serious
issues, and it is down to you to elaborate on them and to clarify
them. What is the role of the European Union Minister? Why keep
changing them and then appoint Geoff Hoon? What mandates does
he have to deal with other parties, both in relation to the enlargement
of NATO and to the relationship with Russia? I will have one more
question after that.
David Miliband: Perhaps I did
not make myself clear. What I tried to say was that energy policy
issues have become more important, and that the role of a common
energy policy, given Europe's dependence on Russia in a number
of areas, has gone up the agenda. Geoff Hoon will not be negotiating
with Russia. As the Prime Minister has said, he will be improving
the co-ordination and work among European member states on the
energy policy issues. The start of that obviously relates to the
different energy needs of different European countries. Secondly,
he has an important role in relation to how the EU is going to
diversify its energy resources. Thirdly, there is the question
of how the European energy policy develops in the face of the
twin challenges of energy security on the one hand, and climate
change on the other. So it is not a matter of Geoff Hoon being
appointed as a negotiator on those questions. On the role of the
Europe Minister and, indeed, the Foreign Secretary, energy security
questions are an important part of our work, but inevitably there
are many other calls on our time. The previous Government abolished
the separate Department of Energy in 1993, I think, although perhaps
that happened a bit earlier, in the late '80s. There was also
a sense during the period of North sea oil and gas of our being
energy exporters and not having too much to worry about. I think
that energy policy has gone back up the agenda for countries such
as ours and for other European countries, and Geoff Hoon's appointment
reflects that.
Q152 Andrew Mackinlay: But how
will we in Parliament know what he is doing? He is not a Minister,
so I cannot question him about that at the Dispatch Box.
David Miliband: That is a fair
point. It is for Ministers to answer and for me as Foreign Secretary
to answer for my Department. It was important for me to say to
the Chairman that there was not a particular focus on the Copenhagen
negotiations. That was obviously led by the Department of Energy
and Climate Change, whose Secretary of State answers for those
issues. I think that success for Geoff's work will mean that our
ambitions for energy policy, which are very clearly laid out and
for which we are answerable, are better achieved. To make the
point, I have a special adviser on climate change, John Ashton,
who is a climate ambassador.
Q153 Andrew Mackinlay: But he is
not a Member of Parliament.
David Miliband: No, he is not,
but he is an expert. He is answerable and I account for him. That
is a slightly different issue that crosses between the Foreign
Office and the Cabinet Office, but it is an additional tool at
the disposal of the British Government to help pursue publicly
stated aspirations for energy policy. As I say, if his appointment
helps us achieve that, so much the better. The wise men issue
is a separate question, because it relates to a report to be written
for the NATO Secretary-General.
Q154 Andrew Mackinlay: Let us
cut to the quick. This appointment is basically a waiting room
for him to become EU Commissioner, is it not? The fact is that
the good lady who is over there now, a baroness, is a stop-gap.
The appointment is so that the Ashfield by-election will be in
the late autumn. Is that not the fact? He is going to be the next
European Commissioner. You know that and I know that.
David Miliband: The Ashfield by-election
that I know about is the Ashfield by-election of 1976—
Q155 Andrew Mackinlay: Which they
lost because they sent somebody to Europe.
David Miliband: Although there
was a European element in that and an involvement of a special
adviser—David Marquand was taking up a special adviser job—that
is the only Ashfield by-election that I know of.
Q156 Andrew Mackinlay: Is it a
fact that he is going to be European Commissioner?
David Miliband: There is no fact
about that at all.
Chairman: Mr. Mackinlay, I think we do
not really want to get into crystal ball gazing. Let us get back
to the Lisbon agenda.
Q157 Mr. Horam: Can we get back
to the June Council? I have in front of me the prospectus of the
European Council, which you kindly provided us with a note about.
I also have the draft conclusions, which we obtained from the
Danish Government website. I do not know why the British Government
cannot circulate the draft conclusion the way the Danish Government
do.
David Miliband: I am happy to
answer that, but carry on with the question you are revving up
to.
Q158 Mr. Horam: Why don't you
answer that?
David Miliband: The question is
why the Danish do it, rather than why we do not. The whole point
about draft conclusions is that they are draft and they are being
discussed among Governments.
Q159 Mr. Horam: Could it be said
that they are rather more open than we are, or more efficient?
David Miliband: It is certainly
true that the Danish Parliament is more open—that is its
constitutional role. It is the only country in Europe that publishes
draft conclusions. It is sensible for countries to be able to
discuss things as openly as possible between themselves.
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