Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
160-179)
MR BORIS
JOHNSON
3 FEBRUARY 2009
Q160 Chairman: Did he at that stage
tell you that it was Mr Green?
Mr Johnson: No.
Q161 Chairman: Did you ask him?
Mr Johnson: No. I mean, I did
not ask him whether it was "Mr Green"—since I
had no knowledge of whether it was Mr Green. I said, "Come
on then, what's up then? Gosh." I did inquire, but he did
not tell me anything.
Q162 Chairman: So the first call
was at 10.00 am.
Mr Johnson: No, there was no telephone
conversation. This took place in the margins of the meeting of
the Metropolitan Police Authority which he and I were both attending.
Q163 Chairman: So your first intimation
that something was happening was at 10.00 am on that morning.
Mr Johnson: Shortly before ten,
I would say.
Q164 Chairman: How many more times
were you in contact with him?
Mr Johnson: That day? I then had
a conversation with him at about lunchtime.
Q165 Chairman: Is lunchtime the traditional
lunchtime?
Mr Johnson: The conventional lunchtime—not
the Spanish lunchtime—yes.
Q166 Chairman: About one o'clock.
Mr Johnson: Yes—round about
then.
Q167 Chairman: He rang you or you
were still in the meeting?
Mr Johnson: He made contact with
my team—because we were out doing a press event—and
he informed me then that it was Damian Green who had been arrested
in connection with a leak inquiry.
Q168 Chairman: At 1.00 pm.
Mr Johnson: Then or thenabouts.
If I could just reiterate, all this is being trawled over by the
Standards Board so I do not want to say anything that might inadvertently
conflict with anything I may already have said to them.
Q169 Chairman: Mr Mayor, you understand
that the Standards Board inquiry is quite separate. It does not
fetter Parliament from asking.
Mr Johnson: No, I understand that.
I understand that.
Q170 Chairman: About one o'clock,
Sir Paul telephoned your team. To tell them what? That Mr Green
had been arrested?
Mr Johnson: I believe it was to
say that Mr Green was about to be arrested in connection with
a leak inquiry.
Q171 Chairman: Did you have any further
contact that day?
Mr Johnson: I did. I then called
Sir Paul back.
Q172 Chairman: At about what time?
Mr Johnson: I think shortly after
that conversation and then later on that afternoon.
Q173 Chairman: What time in the afternoon?
Mr Johnson: It was in the afternoon.
I mean, it was before three o'clock
Q174 Chairman: The first two calls
were: Sir Paul first of all informing you at the margins of the
MPA meeting and the second time was a one o'clock call from Sir
Paul to your team.
Mr Johnson: That is right.
Q175 Chairman: You then telephoned
him at 1.10 pm, or approximately 1.10 pm.
Mr Johnson: It was then or thenabouts.
Q176 Chairman: And then you rang
him again at three o'clock.
Mr Johnson: Perhaps it would be
helpful if I describe the scene. I rang him once from a station
platform in West London, as we came back by Tube from the media
event, and then later on from my office in City Hall.
Q177 Chairman: What was the purpose
of your calls back to him? I can understand him informing you
but why did you then ring him back?
Mr Johnson: Well, he was calling
me in my capacity as Chairman of the MPA to alert me to a high
profile arrest (as you have described it) and my purpose in calling
him back, as I have said before, was to establish that I had the
facts of the case straight in my head and that a Member of this
House was being arrested in connection with a leak inquiry, and
I wanted to make it clear to the Acting Commissioner that I felt
that I would obviously be asked about this. It seemed to me, at
first blush, if the facts were as he stated them—which I
was sure they were—then there would be a hoo-ha or a kerfuffle,
or more a commotion or a controversy. I do not think I was wrong
in that view and I think it was right for me to state that to
him as Chairman of the MPA.
Q178 Chairman: I do not know whether
you saw the evidence from Sir David Normington but he expressed
to Mr Quick, who telephoned him, his surprise. You went beyond
surprise. You talked about kerfuffles and hoo-has.
Mr Johnson: I think I said this
thing would "go off like a rocket" and that we would
need to have a pretty good reason to think that the arrest of
an MP in the House of Commons was not a disproportionate response
to a leak inquiry.
Q179 Chairman: The "rocket"
comment, was that before or after the arrest? Was he discussing
it with you or just saying, "I'm going to do it"? "By
the way, Chairman, just to let you know, this is what is going
to happen."
Mr Johnson: I understand the point
you are making. As I understood matters when I was talking to
Sir Paul, the arrest procedures were already in train. As I remember,
they were simply trying to find Mr Green. I could not say for
certain whether the second conversation took place before or after
the moment when Damian was arrested, when Mr Green was arrested,
but I am fairly certain that by three o'clock he had been arrested
because I met Sir Paul at a service in Southwark Cathedral for
Damilola Taylor, where it was confirmed that Damian Green had
been arrested.
| 
