Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
180-199)
MR BORIS
JOHNSON
3 FEBRUARY 2009
Q180 Chairman: So he told you once
and for all that it had been done at three o'clock. Throughout
the day you had been informed, first of all, that something was
happening, and then by one o'clock you knew it was Damian Green.
Mr Johnson: That is right.
Chairman: Thank you.
Q181 Mr Winnick: As you will know,
Mr Mayor, the position of Parliament is that there will be huge
interest and concern about how the police came into the parliamentary
office in Westminster. That does not concern you, but I thought
that once again it should be made clear that the concern goes
well beyond the Conservative Party. The Chairman spoke about processes.
Perhaps I could just ask you one or two questions regarding Mr
Green. When you learned what was going to happen, that he was
to be arrested, you contacted him?
Mr Johnson: No. Certainly not
before his arrest. As is well known, there was a conversation
between me and Damian Green on the Monday—which is several
days later.
Q182 Mr Winnick: Did you speak with
Mr Green about what was going to happen? That is what I am asking
you.
Mr Johnson: What was going to
happen?
Q183 Mr Winnick: Yes, that he was
to be arrested.
Mr Johnson: No, certainly not.
Q184 Mr Winnick: Though you knew
that he was to be arrested—Am I right? You told the Chairman
about that.
Mr Johnson: That is right.
Q185 Mr Winnick: —you did not
phone or contact in any way—
Mr Johnson: No. Of course not.
Q186 Mr Winnick: —Mr Green?
Mr Johnson: No.
Mr Winnick: Thank you very much.
Q187 Chairman: When did you speak
to Mr Green?
Mr Johnson: I think we initiated
contact with Damian Green over the weekend and a conversation
took place in my office in City Hall on the mobile phone on Monday
afternoon.
Q188 Chairman: With Mr Green. He
was present.
Mr Johnson: No, it was by mobile
phone. There was no point in talking to him on a mobile phone
if he had been in the office.
Q189 Chairman: I did not know it
was by mobile phone. What time did that meeting take place?
Mr Johnson: In the afternoon.
I would be guessing, but I would say about five o'clock.
Q190 Chairman: So the first contact
you had with Damian Green was on the Monday.
Mr Johnson: That is correct.
Chairman: After his arrest on the Friday.
Q191 Mrs Dean: Did you speak to anyone
else prior to Mr Green's arrest?
Mr Johnson: No. Well, I spoke
to members of my immediate team on a completely confidential basis,
but I certainly did not speak to anybody else.
Q192 Gwyn Prosser: Mr Johnson can
you tell us something about that conversation with Damian Green.
Also, were you talking to him as the Mayor of London or as the
Chairman of the Police Authority or as a friend and political
ally?
Mr Johnson: Mayor of London, Chairman
of the Policy Authority or friend and political ally? I would
invoke the doctrine of the Trinity and say that I was three in
one and one in three and it was difficult to make any meaningful
distinction between my roles. Since I had commented on the case,
and you will perhaps be aware that I did say something about the
arrest or that a statement was put out in my name about the arrest—and
I thought that was right, since I had views about it—I thought
it would be prudent and for the good of the Metropolitan Police
Authority if I took the trouble briefly and economically to substantiate
my instincts simply by a quick telephone call with Damian Green—and
obviously I have known him for a long time—to ascertain
very briefly, on the balance of probabilities, without going into
any kind of forensic examination but simply to verify, that my
initial instinct about the matter was correct.
Q193 Gwyn Prosser: If you are having
difficulty in separating your various roles, perhaps I could make
it easier for you. If you could possibly imagine being a Labour
Mayor of London, would you still have invited Damian Green in
for a conversation of that nature?
Mr Johnson: I am sorry, I think
there has been some confusion. Damian Green was not invited in
for a conversation.
Q194 Gwyn Prosser: Would you still
have had the conversation with Damian Green?
Mr Johnson: Certainly, if I had
expressed views, as I had, about the wisdom and proportionality
of arresting an MP in the House of Commons in connection with
a leak inquiry, then I like to think that I would have taken the
trouble to contact any Member on either side of the House about
the essential facts of the case, in order to verify that when
I had spoken about that matter I was not a million miles from
the truth.
Q195 Mr Clappison: You have been
asked a lot of "what happened" and "when"
type questions, but the fact of the matter is that the Acting
Head of the Metropolitan Police informed you. It was his decision
to inform you, as he had informed David Normington beforehand,
who told this Committee that he was surprised and said to the
police that he hoped they had good evidence. This has been described
as a "high profile arrest". That description has been
chosen to be applied to it and you were asked if you were routinely
told of such high profile events. But this was, in fact, was it
not, the arrest of a Member of Her Majesty's Opposition in the
course of an investigation, initiated by the Government, which
involved the deprivation of his liberty, the searching of his
home and the searching of his offices here in Parliament. These
all have parliamentary implications. It is not something which
is routine, is it? You were a Member of Parliament before you
became the Mayor of London. Would you describe this as something
that was slightly unusual?
Mr Johnson: Yes, that is exactly
right, Mr Clappison. That is why I thought it right to express
my concerns to the Acting Commissioner and to register that I
thought it would, indeed, cause the very commotion that you describe.
Q196 David Davies: If somebody from
your office leaked matters that were not in any way pertinent
to national security but might be seen to be a bit embarrassing,
would you see that as an internal disciplinary matter or would
you demand that the police got involved and launched a full-scale
investigation with arrests?
Mr Johnson: I understand completely
the substance of your question. I do not particularly want to
get dragged back into the commentary about the police investigation
and how it was conducted and that kind of thing, because I do
not think that is a very useful avenue for me just now with the
inquiry going on.
Q197 Chairman: If you could stick
to the process rather than the substance, that would be fine.
Mr Johnson: Well, as I say, I
was worried at the business of arresting an MP in the House of
Commons in the course of a leak inquiry—which, as you rightly
say, is basically something that you deal with by internal disciplinary
processes. I thought it would cause a big political storm and
I thought it was worth pointing that out.
Q198 Ms Buck: Did you have a conversation
during that day with the Leader of the Opposition or anyone in
his office, or the Shadow Home Secretary or anyone in his office?
Mr Johnson: I do not believe I
did. I do not believe I did.
Q199 Ms Buck: Did you see the Leader
of the Opposition during the course of the day?
Mr Johnson: No. No. I would have—
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