Managing Migration: Points-Based System - Home Affairs Committee Contents


Examination of Witness (Questions 380-396)

PROFESSOR DAVID METCALF

17 MARCH 2009

  Q380  Gwyn Prosser: Nautilus.

  Professor Metcalf: Sorry, it is Nautilus. It was keen that the UK workers should be trained up as well when we took the evidence, but this is one we are going to be reviewing by September.

  Q381  David Davies: Professor Metcalf, you have been in place for two years now. Have you any signs that the Government has started to compensate for the lack of skilled workers in this country by offering increased training places to the UK workforce?

  Professor Metcalf: I have been in position for not quite 18 months. The short answer to that is that I have not looked at it in quite the way that you imply.

  Q382  David Davies: If you were short of workers in the hovercraft industry two years ago, ships' officers, whatever, hypothetically, within 18 months or two years you would have expected the Government to say, "We are short of these people and so rather than bring them in from abroad, we are going to offer increased training so that British jobs can go to British workers". Have you any seen any examples because if you are not looking at that specifically, you would surely be saying to yourselves: @We do not need quite so many in that hypothetical occupation now, be it hovercraft drivers or whatever, because over the last 18 months the Government has trained more them". Have you seen that?

  Professor Metcalf: You are absolutely right. Yes. Basically, our occupation list is being used now by the new commission and by DIUS in terms of guidance for the sector skills councils that these are areas where they should put resources to make sure we get some up upskilling. The answer to your specific question about whether I have seen the results of this is: less so here but, for example, we know that with consultants, which are on the list presently, there are a lot of people being trained and they will become consultants quite soon; electricity linesmen are on the list and a lot of training is going on there.

  Q383  Tom Brake: Are these specific jobs where you have reduced the numbers of people coming in because there has been an increase in the numbers of British people qualified to do them?

  Professor Metcalf: There were quite a lot of occupations that we did not put on the list where people say there is a skills shortage. The reason that we did not put them on was that in our judgment there were plenty of British people to do those jobs.

  Q384  Tom Brake: But are there any occupations where there was a shortage two years ago but there is not now because the Government has trained up more British workers for those British jobs?

  Professor Metcalf: The answer is that I cannot immediately put my finger on that. It is the case that the Sector Skills Council for Hospitality has been liaising with the catering industry with a view to training up more chefs.

  Chairman: We will be having evidence on that.

  Q385  Tom Brake: Can you be certain that all of the people who have come in with specific skills have taken jobs in those areas where the skills were lacking?

  Professor Metcalf: They come in with a work permit for a specific employer. Presumably the employer is requiring them for that job.

  Q386  Tom Brake: May I suggest to you that very few checks are carried out on employers?

  Professor Metcalf: That is a matter for the UKBA; it is not a matter for the Migration Advisory Committee.

  Q387  Mr Winnick: As far as care workers are concerned, the evidence shows that there is an acute shortage of care assistants. Professor Metcalf, since they do not qualified as skilled on the basis of qualifications, migrants cannot be recruited. Is that the position?

  Professor Metcalf: Not quite.

  Q388  Mr Winnick: Can you explain?

  Professor Metcalf: Yes. In order to come in under Tier 2, the job has to score as skilled. There are some occupations on the list, subsets of occupations, which when we did our analysis did not score as skilled—chefs and care workers are the two main ones—but we recognise that there is a subset within that that are skilled. Care workers is a case in point. We recognise there are some issues with care about expansion of the sector, the high vacancy rates, turnover rates and so on. We have put on the list senior care workers. We took a particular way to define senior care workers, which I can go into if you would wish. The sector did not especially like our way. We have listened to the sector about how to define it.

  Q389  Mr Winnick: Can they come in?

  Professor Metcalf: Senior care workers are on the shortage list, yes.

  Q390  Mr Winnick: But not otherwise?

  Professor Metcalf: I think that if you had the care sector here, they would be arguing essentially for a Tier 3 scheme because what they want is workers other than senior care workers also to be able to come in but, as you know, Tier 3 is suspended.

  Q391  Mr Winnick: As regards to chefs, we have heard constant representation, not simply as members of this committee but as MPs, where there are clearly Chinese and Bangladesh communities who say that as a result of the new system they are finding it virtually impossible to get people to come in because of the regulations. There are enough people obviously keen to come from those countries abroad but because of the new restrictions it is very difficult. The restaurant owners are saying that they cannot recruit locally. Is there any merit in the criticism that we are hearing?

  Professor Metcalf: If I may say, the criticism is disproportionately about the lower level skills. It is essentially like the care sector that many in the restaurant sector would wish for a de facto Tier 3 scheme for less skilled workers to be able to come in. The skilled components of chefs, as it were, are on the shortage list, subject to a certain earnings threshold and the profession is able to bring them in. Could I say, by the way, that we have been lobbied of course as well through representations from Bangladeshi, Indian and Chinese restaurants and it was not only them; a representative of the Dorchester came to talk to us, for example. It was not just the ethnic community but others as well.

  Q392  Gwyn Prosser: Professor Metcalf, do you think that the way points are awarded for qualifications, age and earnings is a proportionate way of assessing skills?

  Professor Metcalf: Under the new system, in Tier 1 and Tier 2 where you are getting points for qualifications and earnings, and age also in Tier 1, it seems to me that that is a very reasonable way of going about it. It may be that the calibration of the points requires a little bit of tweaking periodically because it is possible that you do not get those right immediately. This will be one of the things that we will be looking at in our review of both Tier 1 and of Tier 2. Of course, under Tier 2 when we do our bottom-up evidence, we try to look at issues like innate ability, training and experience, as well as just those points criteria.

  Q393  Gwyn Prosser: Bearing that in mind, you have looked at that and your committee has considered it to be quite key to decision-making, why do not those attributes count towards points?

  Professor Metcalf: The short answer is that it would be very difficult indeed to measure both the nature of the experience that people have had on an individual basis and innate ability; it is very much more subjective. Whereas you have objective criteria in terms of pay, qualifications and age.

  Q394  Gwyn Prosser: In February, the Home Secretary asked you to consider restricting Tier 2 in shortage of occupation areas. This is not a political question. Do you think that was a practical way to go?

  Professor Metcalf: I will tell you when we have done the work. It seems to me that that is an absolutely legitimate question to ask and the MAC are very keen to undertake this. Now that we have a downturn in the labour market, and the previous work permit system had the three routes, the shortage route is in some sense the one where we have done all the analysis and we say this is truly where there is a shortage of labour. The question which is implicitly being raised here is: should people also be allowed to come in through the resident labour market test and through the intra-company transfers? This is the question that we will be addressing over the next three or four months.

  Q395  Gwyn Prosser: Finally, do you have a feel for how many migrants would be affected by those changes coming through that route?

  Professor Metcalf: In principle, that could be very substantial. I am not anticipating at all because we have not done any of the work. If the committee were to decide, for example, that there was less of a case for intra-company transfers, and by definition those using them presently are people in information technology—we have referred to Tata, for example—then it would be very much more difficult for Tata to bring the people in. Therefore, when we do the work, we will want to be talking to employers like Tata, for example, to gauge the merits of continuing with the three routes or, as is implicit in the Home Secretary's question, possibly focusing on the one route.

  Q396  Tom Brake: Could I return briefly to the points system and the fairness of it? You said it was fair. What is fair about a system that includes points based on people's earnings when people from developing countries are not possibly going to be able to earn the same number of points as someone from an industrialised country?

  Professor Metcalf: This is not a matter for the MAC. My understanding of this is that there is a multiplier there; they are multiplied up according to the GDP of the country.

  Chairman: Professor Metcalf, thank you very much for giving evidence. I am sure we will be in touch with you for further information. If you would like to help this committee in any way with any information about our inquiry, please do not hesitate to write to us. If we have missed anything out or you want to add to your evidence, please do so.





 
previous page contents next page

House of Commons home page Parliament home page House of Lords home page search page enquiries index

© Parliamentary copyright 2009
Prepared 1 August 2009