Examination of Witnesses (Questions 20-23)
MR ALI
SOYEI AND
MS AMANDA
SHAH
16 SEPTEMBER 2009
Q20 David Davies: You mentioned Sweden
and how they are successful in a voluntary approach. Would it
not be simply better, if it does not already happen, to say to
somebody: "Instead of going into detention we will give a
`plane ticket right away to go back to your country of origin."
Would that not be the best solution all round for all of us?
Ms Shah: One of the problems that
was highlighted in the statistics in that regard is that, given
that 50% of children go on to be released back into the community,
certain policies that are supposed to be in place by UKBA when
people are taken into detention, are not happening in practice,
including that people are taken into detention when they have
ongoing asylum and immigration applications which would make their
removal from the country unlawful.
Q21 David Davies: What do you think,
Mr Soyei? If it was a voluntary case—you talk about voluntary
cases—why not say: "Look, you have got a straightforward
choice here: a `plane ticket or detention"? Would that not
be the fairest thing and a good idea for UKBA—an improvement,
in fact? It would save us a bit of money and solve the problem.
Mr Soyei: It may save UKBA, or
the Government, a bit of money but I am not sure whether it will
actually solve the problem, because I think what we have certainly
learnt from the experiences of our families is an actual lack
of faith in the whole process, and at the point at which they
are picked up, as well, for detention, there is usually a failure
to discuss alternatives with them. I know of a family where the
mother had actually put in an appeal, she had not been informed
about the outcome of her appeal, she complied with the normal
reporting requirements and, as usual, she just got picked up when
she was there, even though her daughter was in school, and taken
into detention. She was reunited with her daughter two days later,
and it was only at that point that removal directions were sent,
only to be revoked two days later and then released into the community.
A lot of this can be resolved by taking a closer look at the asylum
process itself, the immigration process, to give people a fairer
chance and to be a bit more transparent in dealings with families
as well.
Q22 Mrs Dean: Can you tell us, in
your experience, how much effort is put in by the Border Agency,
both in ensuring the welfare and the wellbeing of the child whilst
in detention but, also, when the child is released back into the
community? You said a large percentage are released back into
the community; how much support is given by the UKBA to ensure
the safety and the rehabilitation of the child when it goes back
into the community?
Mr Soyei: Our experience is that
we know the UK Border Agency have signed up to the recent introduction
of section 11 of the Children's Act, which is about promoting
the safeguarding and welfare of children generally and specifically
those in detention. We do know that there is a social work team
based in Yarls Wood which has a primary task to undertake assessments
on behalf of the UKBA. On release it may depend on what the issues
are. To UKBA's credit, I do know of a case where safeguarding
issues were identified in relation to a child whilst in detention,
and on release of that child efforts were made to engage children's
services in the community to continue the required intervention.
I also know, in relation to that specific case, that UKBA has
stated too that children's services are involved in this child
protection intervention and that before they pursue removal they
will engage with children's services to consider whether it is
appropriate. That is just one case. I think there are other examples
where we would hope that UKBA could promote and do a bit more
in terms of their responsibility to implement section 11 of the
Children's Act.
Ms Shah: The forthcoming change
to the section 11 duty, which is going to place an obligation
on UKBA to safeguard and promote the welfare of children, and,
also, the removal of the Government's reservation last year—the
immigration reservation to the UN Convention on the Rights of
the Child—are both to be welcomed; they are definitely steps
in the right direction. In terms of families' experiences on the
ground, that rhetoric has yet to be translated into reality, and
I think families are seeing very little difference in terms of
how they are treated. We would say that the logical next best
step would be for detention to be ended.
Q23 Mrs Dean: In practical terms,
in relation to those who are released into the community, how
many times do families ever find themselves homeless? What help
and support is provided for those families?
Mr Soyei: Help and support is
provided generally by other voluntary organisations, in terms
of accessing information and re-engaging with the wider asylum
system and support services available, but it is dependent on
communication between UKBA, the implementing partners, the centre
management, and relevant organisations who are in position. It
is not unusual to find a family that has been released, possibly
around four or five o'clock, having to make their way back to
the north east of England and, unaware of the train times, have
ended up sleeping on the platform in Birmingham train station
on the way back to the North East, just because of the time at
which they have been released, and appropriate individuals have
not been informed. It is also not unusual for people to arrive
back to where they stayed prior to detention to find all the doors
locked, because the housing providers have not been informed that
they have been released and they should be given access back.
Again, they end up either staying on the streets or sofa-surfing,
and that can go on for a week or so, and that does have a great
impact on the welfare of the children in those circumstances.
Chairman: Ms Shah, Mr Soyei, thank you
very much for giving evidence. Just in terms of what Mr Davies
was saying, we have published a fairly lengthy report into human
trafficking. We are concerned about this aspect—the number
of children who come from abroad and who then either leave children's
homes or are out and about who can be the subject of abuse. While,
of course, accepting your evidence to this Committee, I would
commend to you the opportunity of reading that particular report.
If you would like us to send it to you, the Clerk will send it
to you as well. Thank you very much.
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