Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
749-759)
MR TOM
WATSON MP, MR
TOM HARRIS
MP AND MR
IAIN WRIGHT
MP
19 JUNE 2008
Q749 Chairman: Could I extend a very
warm welcome to our witnesses and colleagues this morning. We
are delighted to have with us Tom Watson from the Cabinet Office,
Iain Wright from the Department of Communities and Local Government
and Tom Harris from Transport. This is the last session that we
are doing in our inquiry into lobbying and it seemed right we
should have some ministers in to try to get an official view,
if there is one, and to hear from ministers about their experience
of being lobbied. We thought of the three of you because Tom in
the Cabinet Office has responsibility inside government, Iain
because of the housing brief and therefore the interests of the
property world in what you are doing, and Tom because your department
gives out lots of contracts for rail and, therefore, liable to
be the subject of a certain amount of lobbying. I have been given
something from one of our Committee staff who went to a Cabinet
Office event the other day and managed to win champagne for two
in the Pugin Room with Tom Watson and he wondered if this would
do instead.
Mr Watson: That
was the Trooping of the Colour charity raffle and I was not trying
to apply undue influence to the Committee!
Q750 Chairman: What would be interesting
to hear is your experience of being lobbied. Who wants to come
and talk to you and who do you talk to?
Mr Harris: I am responsible for
the Highways Agency as well as the railways but I have been in
railways for longer so on that side of the job it is mostly industry
associations who represent either a group of supply companies
or a group of train operating companies like the Association of
Train Operating Companies. I have regular meetings with them and
they want to speak to me and I want to speak to them so there
is no question of not giving them access. I need to get their
feedback and their perceptions of what is happening in the industry
and that happens as frequently as my diary will allow it.
Q751 Chairman: How do you decide
who to see?
Mr Harris: The Rail Industry Association
is a respected organisation and represents a number of private
sector suppliers mostly to Network Rail but to other train operating
companies as well. When I first became a minister one of my first
meetings was with the Rail Industry Association so I guess, in
that respect, coming into the industry brand new and not really
knowing how the industry was structured, I accepted the advice
of my private office who had dealt with them on a number of occasions
with different ministers before then. Unless there is a very good
reason not to meet someone, I would generally say let us see what
they have to say.
Q752 Chairman: Who would you say
no to?
Mr Harris: The vast amount of
lobbying that happens directly to me is from parliamentary colleagues.
I have a rule in the office that if a parliamentary colleague
wants to see me about anything at all the answer is yes and then
ask them what the subject is, so in that sense it is a very open
door as far as colleagues are concerned. I genuinely do not remember
saying no to any organisation if I think they have something interesting
to tell me. For example, there are different rail user groups
and there is one called Rail Future which is essentially a group
of volunteers who are train spotters. These gentlemen feel very
strongly about the industry. They do not have any statutory authority
or anything but they really appreciate having access to the minister
for half an hour every few months and I am happy to give them
that because I think it is quite interesting for them to tell
me what they think of the state of the industry. I am not aware
of having said no to anybody.
Q753 Chairman: Who wants to see you,
who do you see and who do you not see?
Mr Wright: My answer is very similar
to that of Tom Harris. I have responsibility for the house building
sector, sustainable construction and the private rented sector
and in terms of groups with regards to those organisations and
individuals I am keen to see them as much as possible. I too am
like Tom Harris and would say that MPs have privileged access.
I would never ever turn down a meeting with an MP and I think
that is very important. One of the things I enjoy doing is going
up and down the country and actually speaking to people. I have
responsibility for the social rented sector as well and I go and
speak to tenants in different regions, which again I think that
is very important to do. The second part of my answer is to do
with the Housing and Regeneration Bill which I have just taken
through the House of Commons and which is now in the House of
Lords. People were trying to have meetings with me in order to
get my take on particular aspects of the Bill and I would divide
up the meetings I had in terms of the Bill into landlords, social
landlords and tenants. That was a particular focus in the early
part of the year with a series of meetings to decide their views
on particular aspects of the Bill.
Q754 Chairman: Do you keep a record
of all these meetings?
Mr Wright: Yes.
Q755 Chairman: Everybody you meet
is recorded.
Mr Wright: Yes, from the diary
secretary everything is recorded.
Q756 Chairman: Including meetings
with MPs?
Mr Wright: A formal meeting in
the department, and I can think of one with regard to gypsies
and travellers from a colleague, is certainly recorded but a quick
chat in the tea room is different and would not be recorded.
Q757 Chairman: What happens to these
records?
Mr Wright: As far as I am concerned
they are collated and maintained. I have records of the meetings
I have had since I was a minister.
Q758 Chairman: One of the issues
that come up in talking about lobbying all the time is the idea
that there are these meetings that go on and lobbyists have preferential
access. There have been FOI requests made to different bits of
government including your department. I know, for example, that
between the 20 March and 22 April this year you met nobody.
Mr Wright: That is not quite correct
then.
Q759 Chairman: Given what you just
said I was quite surprised by that because it sounded as though
you were busy meeting people all time.
Mr Wright: I am. What I would
say with regard to that is every meeting that I have is recorded
by the diary secretary. In terms of the specific provisions of
FOI, I am not entirely certain what is required. Certainly I am
confident that every meeting that I have had is recorded.
| 
