Examination of Witnesses (Quesitons 300-319)
MR ADRIAN
SANDERS MP
19 MAY 2009
Q300 Mr Barron: You do not think
there is any great read-over in relation to that then. Do you
not think you are vulnerable to the charge that you must have
known that he was involving himself in papers of the Select Committee
and potentially discussing it with your front bench team?
Mr Sanders: No, I do not.
Q301 Mr Knight: The contract Mr Smith
has, is it in standard form as issued by the Fees Office?
Mr Sanders: It would be.
Q302 Mr Knight: Or have you individualised
it in any way?
Mr Sanders: It would be in standard
form.
Q303 Mr Knight: So any reference
to confidentiality is the standard clause that would be issued?
Mr Sanders: Yes.
Q304 Mr Dismore: Did Mr Smith report
back to you after these meetings with the DCMS team?
Mr Sanders: Yes.
Q305 Mr Knight: What sorts of things
did he report back to you about?
Mr Sanders: Policy development,
issues that are coming up, issues in the media.
Q306 Mr Knight: Issues that were
coming from the select committee?
Mr Sanders: No, issues that were
coming up in general in relation to Culture, Media and Sport issues
that may or may not by consequence be dealt with by the Select
Committee but not specifically for that purpose.
Q307 Dr Whitehead: When you said
to Mr Smith about the DCMS report, "go and get a copy",
it is evident that he already had a copy electronically because
he was receiving regularly these electronic transmissions of committee
papers, so he was misleading you, therefore, when you suggested
that.
Mr Sanders: If he still had a
copy electronically he would have been misleading me.
Q308 Dr Whitehead: How do you think,
therefore, that he obtained the permission to receive these electronic
copies on a regular basis from—
Mr Sanders: You would have to
ask him that.
Q309 Dr Whitehead: He did not ever
tell you that he was now copied into the system, as it were?
Mr Sanders: No.
Q310 Dr Whitehead: And, therefore,
he would have regular access to these reports?
Mr Sanders: No.
Q311 Mr Mullin: Do you know Mr Lotinga?
Mr Sanders: Ah, this is the guy
who has written to me. I do not. I do not think I have ever spoken
to him. I may have been in the same room as him but, no, I do
not know him personally at all.
Q312 Mr Mullin: What has he written
to you about?
Mr Sanders: He has written to
me to say: "Dear Adrian, I am writing to you regarding the
current Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee leak inquiry.
I believe you have now been informed about my involvement in this
matter and I wanted to write to you to offer my sincere apologies
for everything that I have done. I appreciate that my conduct
was totally unacceptable and that I may have caused great distress
to you and Tom. I have made clear to the Standards and Privileges
Committee that you had no knowledge of my behaviour and I hope
that this may prevent further difficulties for you both. Using
the information that was sent to me in the way that I did was
a clear breach of your trust. Once again, I would like to offer
you and Tom my sincere apologies. Yours sincerely, Stephen Lotinga."
I am happy for the Committee to have that.
Q313 Chairman: Thank you very much.
Mr Sanders, do you feel you have some responsibility as the employer
of Mr Smith for what has happened?
Mr Sanders: I do not believe Mr
Smith at any point believed that anything he was doing was going
to end up as a leak.
Q314 Chairman: That was not the question.
Mr Sanders: I believe that I need
to redefine the confidentiality understanding for Tom and for
any other member of my staff. I think I need to impress upon staff
that they should not share anything with any other Member's office
without talking to me first.
Q315 Chairman: To ask the question
again, I am afraid, do you feel that you have some responsibility
for what has gone wrong?
Mr Sanders: Of course I have responsibility
for the actions of my staff. The question is what is it that my
member of staff has done wrong in relation to the leak and it
seems to be that firstly he should not have been receiving material
from the Select Committee without having first gone through me,
although that is a technicality. He certainly should not have
been sharing that information with any other Member's office,
although I believe he felt that he was being requested to do that
by another Member's office and, therefore, that would have been
all right. He cannot be responsible then for that information
having gone down the chain in the way that it has done.
Q316 Mr Knight: Last time when you
gave evidence you said, "I know nothing about the leak and
I am satisfied my staff have nothing to do with it". Upon
what basis were you satisfied?
Mr Sanders: I was satisfied on
the basis that I did not know that there had been earlier information
and that had been passed down to another office. I had no idea.
Q317 Mr Knight: If you were satisfied
your staff had nothing to do with it that rather implies you had
questioned your staff and they denied any knowledge of it.
Mr Sanders: I had questioned my
staff as to whether they had anything to do with the leak.
Q318 Chairman: The Select Committee
of which you are a member had a leak inquiry before this one.
Mr Sanders: Yes.
Q319 Chairman: Did you not make similar
enquiries at that point?
Mr Sanders: Yes.
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