The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chairman:
Sir
Nicholas Winterton
Blizzard,
Mr. Bob
(Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's
Treasury)
Caborn,
Mr. Richard
(Sheffield, Central)
(Lab)
Clapham,
Mr. Michael
(Barnsley, West and Penistone)
(Lab)
Dhanda,
Mr. Parmjit
(Gloucester)
(Lab)
Gray,
Mr. James
(North Wiltshire)
(Con)
Heath,
Mr. David
(Somerton and Frome)
(LD)
Keeley,
Barbara
(Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of the House
of Commons)
Liddell-Grainger,
Mr. Ian
(Bridgwater)
(Con)
McDonagh,
Siobhain
(Mitcham and Morden)
(Lab)
Murphy,
Mr. Denis
(Wansbeck)
(Lab)
Robathan,
Mr. Andrew
(Blaby)
(Con)
Sharma,
Mr. Virendra
(Ealing, Southall)
(Lab)
Smith,
John
(Vale of Glamorgan)
(Lab)
Smith,
Sir Robert
(West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)
(LD)
Soames,
Mr. Nicholas
(Mid-Sussex)
(Con)
Vara,
Mr. Shailesh
(North-West Cambridgeshire)
(Con)
Mark Etherton, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
The following
also attended (Standing Order No.
118(2)):
Mackinlay,
Andrew
(Thurrock)
(Lab)
Malins,
Mr. Humfrey
(Woking)
(Con)
Second
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Monday 14
December
2009
[Sir
Nicholas Winterton in the
Chair]
Motion
Relating to the Electoral
Commission
4.30
pm
The
Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of the House of Commons
(Barbara Keeley): I beg to
move,
That
the Committee has considered the motion, That an humble Address be
presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Anthony
Hugh Burton Hobman as an Electoral Commissioner with effect from 19
January 2010 for the period ending on 31 December
2013.
It
is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir
Nicholas. We are considering a motion that has been tabled by my right
hon. and learned Friend the Leader of the
House.
Electoral
commissioners are appointed for a fixed-term period of four years. This
post has arisen because the term of office of one commissioner,
Karamjit Singh, will expire on 19 January. The Political Parties,
Elections and Referendums Act 2000 makes the Speakers Committee
on the Electoral Commission responsible for selecting candidates for
the posts of electoral commissioner. Mr. Hobman was selected
by a panel appointed by the previous Speaker, and was the
panels unanimous recommendation. As required by statute,
Mr. Speaker then consulted party leaders, who gave their
agreement. I hope that the Committee will endorse this
appointment.
I
hope that all Committee members have been able to read the biography of
Anthony Hobman that has been circulated, but if they have not, there
are copies in the room. Hon. Members will see that Mr.
Hobman has a considerable record of experience and achievement in
regulatory work, in both executive and non-executive roles. Those are
the skills that the Electoral Commission requires as it continues to
move its focus towards its regulatory role. By agreeing to
Mr. Hobmans appointment as a commissioner, the House
will contribute to the effectiveness of the commission in the period
leading up to a general election.
The Political
Parties and Elections Act 2009, which received Royal Assent on 21 July,
strengthens the Electoral Commission so that it can fulfil its role as
the regulator of party spending and political donations. The Act
achieves that by giving the commission a broader range of powers of
investigation and access to a number of civil sanctions. The Act also
reforms the commissions governance so that it will benefit from
commissioners with recent experience of politics, and that has been the
topic of previous debates on appointing
commissioners.
The
most significant changes to the Electoral Commission, particularly with
regard to its new powers, will commence early in 2010, taking effect
from July 2010. We hope to see the commission develop into a more
robust and effective regulator, and that presents new challenges. The
commission must get to grips with
new regulations governing party finance and expenditure at a time when
transparency of party finance has been called into question, and has
been the subject of much debate in the
media.
The
2009 Act also provides for the nomination of commissioners with
political experience, and that process is under wayI hope that
the new commissioners will be able to take up post soon. Those new
commissioners will enhance the commissions effectiveness by
giving it access to recent political experience, and an increased
awareness of the environment within which it
operates.
Mr.
James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): As the CV does not do
so, will the Minister tell us whether Mr. Hobman has any
political experience, affiliations, memberships or other links with any
political
party?
Barbara
Keeley: No, Mr. Hobman is a commissioner in the
previous mould. The process for new commissioners with political
experience is under
way.
Mr.
Gray: I quite understand that, but that was not my
question. Does Mr. Hobman have any links, connections or
experience with any political
party?
Barbara
Keeley: I do not have that information, but such
details have to be declared. It was the case that the commission could
not appoint commissioners with political experience, and the change
takes effect in January. That was heavily debated by hon. Members, many
of whom felt that commissioners should have political experience,
although that had been expressly not allowed. The new Act, which
commences in January, brings in a change. The new commissioners with
political experience are being appointed now, but they would have been
expressly not allowed under the previous
regime.
If
Mr. Hobmans appointment is approved, he will have a
key role to play in the Electoral Commission over the next four years,
and I wish him and all commissioners well in their task. I commend the
motion to the
Committee.
Several
hon. Members
rose
The
Chairman: Order. Before I call the next speaker, I
wish to confirm what the Minister said. If Members do not have
Mr. Hobmans CV, copies are available on the table in
the
room.
4.36
pm
Mr.
Shailesh Vara (North-West Cambridgeshire) (Con): It is a
pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Nicholas. We
already have a very good team of commissioners under the leadership of
Jenny Watson and I, for my part, have no objections to Anthony Hobman
joining that team. His CV clearly shows that he has a record of public
service, as well as of holding positions of responsibility. I very much
hope that he will be able to add his experience to the
commission.
Mr.
Hobman joins the commission at an exciting timewhen a general
election is not too far away, and, as the Deputy Leader of the House
mentioned, when politics is held in low esteem by the public. I hope
that he and the other commissioners will help in the slow process of
trying to ensure that Parliament and all those
who work here regain the respect and trust of the public. I wish him and
his fellow commissioners well in the task ahead of
them.
Mr.
David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD)
rose Andrew
Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab)
rose
The
Chairman: I call Andrew
Mackinlay.
4.37
pm
Andrew
Mackinlay: I hope that the hon. Member for Somerton and
Frome will forgive me for trespassing, in that I am not a member of the
Committee, by exercising my right to speak. You have generously called
me, Sir Nicholas, as you were moving backwards and forwards,
but I make no apology for coming to the
sitting
The
Chairman: Order. I called the hon. Gentleman
because he rose. He has every right to speak, but not to vote if the
Committee divides at the end of this debate. I was trying to be fair by
calling Members from one side of the Committee and then the
other.
Andrew
Mackinlay: You are very generous and kind, Sir Nicholas,
and I am grateful for being
called.
I
wanted to attend this debate for a variety of reasons, but first let me
make a point that I think I have made in your presence before, Sir
Nicholas: the way in which we run this place is a nonsense. If someone
is interested in a Committee, they often do not get invited to serve on
it, but the Whips will put someone on a Committee that they know
nothing about, and with that I will not put up until May, when I leave
this
place.
I
am interested in this subject because the Electoral Commission is
obviously with us to stay and is extraordinarily powerful. The Minister
herself trespassed into this matter. If we look at the Official
Report tomorrow, we will see that she told us about the Political
Parties and Elections Act 2009, the role of the commissioners, when the
new rules for commissioners will come into force, and the regulatory
work that she anticipates that the new commissioners will do. The role
of commissioners is terribly important, so when we consider new
commissioners, it is fair to ask, among other things, who they are and
where they come
from.
It
is a matter of some irritation that the biography was not available in
the Vote Office. I have had the opportunity to speed-read three pages
since the start of the sitting, but that is not the way in which to do
business. Whoever made these arrangements did so sloppily, because the
information should have been available
earlier.
I
should like to ask the Minister some specific questions. How many hours
a month is the prospective appointee, like others, expected to serve
over a year? We need some indication of commitment. While I was
speed-reading the biography, I wanted to find out whether the gentleman
was on any other quangos or had other public duties, which is a
legitimate question. There is a culture in this country of people
collecting positions on quangos. The arithmetic does not add up for
those people. They are either supermen or superwomen, as they cannot do
all their roles appropriately, and certainly not for the anticipated
number of hours a year stated in the blurb.
In fairness to
Anthony Hobman, as far as I can see from the biography, there is
nothing to indicate that he has any other public service duties.
However, I ask formally whether anybody can tell us whether he has
other existing public duties.
Mr.
Gray: I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman. I was
somewhat puzzled by the late arrival of the CV, but, from glancing at
it, surely it is the case that Mr. Hobman is still today the
chief executive of the Pensions Regulator, which is indeed a public
body and for which he is, presumably, working full
time.
Andrew
Mackinlay: That shows the problem with
speed-readingthis is not the way to run
things.
Mr.
Humfrey Malins (Woking) (Con): If it is of any help to the
hon. Gentleman, I understand that the appointments are for four years,
with an expected time commitment of about three days a
month.
Andrew
Mackinlay: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I hope
that either he or the Minister can tell us the remuneration for those
three days a
month.
Mr.
Malins: I understand that commissioners are paid a rate of
£354 for each day they work. Parliament sets the rate, which is
adjusted annually in line with any rise in judges pay. The
posts are not
pensionable.
Andrew
Mackinlay: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that
information, and to the hon. Member for North Wiltshire, who pointed
out that this prospective member of the Electoral Commission is a
pensions regulator. I would have thought that that was a pretty
burdensome task, yet this person will have to serve the Electoral
Commission for about 25 to 30 days a year. I would like some
reassurance that the calendar arithmetic adds up and that the role can
be carried
out.
The
post with the Pensions Regulator attracts considerable
remunerationand rightly soas it is a very skilled job
and involves quite a commitment. It is not unreasonable for Parliament
to have full disclosure of a persons remuneration and
commitment, particularly as the Electoral Commission is charged with
probing and examining that kind of core business. It is the case for
other related regulatory bodies that we have set upthe local
government standards commissions and so onso we should be
told.
Mr.
Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester) (Lab): My hon. Friend makes an
interesting point. I would also be interested to know, as would he,
about the diversity of the shortlist, as the commission is obviously
interested in issues relating to women and ethnic minorities. How many
applicants were there? I do not have any idea from the CV about this
guys schooling. I appreciate that he is a former bank employee,
but the CV does not tell us a great deal more then that. Perhaps the
Minister can elaborate a little more. Does my hon. Friend agree that we
need to know a little more about this persons
background?