The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Bain,
Mr. William
(Glasgow, North-East)
(Lab)
Brown,
Lyn
(West Ham) (Lab)
Caborn,
Mr. Richard
(Sheffield, Central)
(Lab)
Clapham,
Mr. Michael
(Barnsley, West and Penistone)
(Lab)
Dunne,
Mr. Philip
(Ludlow)
(Con)
Follett,
Barbara
(Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and
Local Government)
Greenway,
Mr. John
(Ryedale)
(Con)
Hemming,
John
(Birmingham, Yardley)
(LD)
Hepburn,
Mr. Stephen
(Jarrow)
(Lab)
Hollobone,
Mr. Philip
(Kettering)
(Con)
Liddell-Grainger,
Mr. Ian
(Bridgwater)
(Con)
Marsden,
Mr. Gordon
(Blackpool, South)
(Lab)
Neill,
Robert
(Bromley and Chislehurst)
(Con)
Soulsby,
Sir Peter
(Leicester, South)
(Lab)
Teather,
Sarah
(Brent, East)
(LD)
Turner,
Mr. Neil
(Wigan)
(Lab)
Mick Hillyard, Committee
Clerk
attended the
Committee
Third
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Monday
1 March
2010
[Bob
Russell in the
Chair]
Code
of Audit Practice 2010 for Local NHS
Bodies
4.30
pm
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local
Government (Barbara Follett): I beg to
move,
That
the Committee has considered the Code of Audit Practice 2010 for Local
NHS
Bodies.
The
Chairman: With this it will be convenient to consider the
Code of Audit Practice 2010 for Local Government
Bodies.
Barbara
Follett: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship
again, Mr. Russell. The Audit Commission, in accordance with
its obligations under the Audit Commission Act 1998, prepared codes of
audit practice prescribing how auditors must carry out their statutory
functions when auditing local government and local NHS bodies. As such,
the codes can neither add to nor detract from auditors
statutory responsibilities as set out in the 1998 Act.
The codes are
the Audit Commissions documents, prepared by the commission
after consultation with stakeholders, and are to be used by the
independent professional auditors whom the commission appoints to audit
local government and NHS bodies. The Audit Commission has prepared
separate codes for local government bodies and NHS bodies to reflect
the different accounting, corporate governance and performance
management frameworks in the two sectors. My role is limited to
bringing the codes to the Committee for consideration and
approval.
The
codes prescribe the way in which the external auditors of local
authorities and NHS bodies should discharge their statutory duties when
auditing the accounts of those bodies. The 1998 Act requires the
commission to review the codes. The codes must be approved by
affirmative resolution by both Houses of Parliament every five years.
The current codes were approved in March 2005. An amendment to the
local government code was laid before Parliament in July 2008 to
reinstate auditors responsibilities to issue an annual letter
to those local government bodies in respect of which the Audit
Commission has inspection responsibilities. However, the end of the
five-year period for the current codes remains 9 March
2010.
The
Audit Commission has worked closely with key stakeholders in producing
the new codes. The separate codes have facilitated the process of
agreeing the NHS code with the Care Quality Commission. In line with
the 1998 Act, the Audit Commission has obtained the agreement of the
Care Quality Commission to the changes made in the new codes. In
addition, the Audit
Commission consulted key stakeholders on the proposed changes to the
codes, including the representative associations of local government
and health bodies, finance directors, the accountancy profession and
partner firms. That consultation saw the proposed changes to the codes
endorsed by
stakeholders.
The
audit codes are high-level documents that prescribe the way in which
auditors of local government and local NHS bodies carry out their audit
functions. They omit material that simply summarises the requirements
of professional auditing standards. Changes to the codes are minimal,
reflecting legislative and technical changes since the current codes
were approved, including the abolition of the audit of best value
performance plans for specified local government bodies and the
replacement of the Healthcare Commission by the Care Quality
Commission.
It
may be beneficial to describe briefly the contents of the codes. The
preface and first section of the codes set each code in context. They
set the scope of the audit and the auditors objectives, and the
general approach to be adopted by auditors in meeting their
responsibilities. They also underline the need for auditors to preserve
their independence from both the audited body and the Audit Commission
and to ensure the security and confidentiality of data received or
obtained in the course of the
audit.
Section
2 prescribes how auditors should carry out their statutory functions in
respect of the audit of financial statements. This is the core of the
audit process. The auditor is required to be satisfied that the
financial statements of the audited body comply with statutory
requirements and that proper practices have been observed in compiling
them, and is also required to express an opinion on whether the
financial statements give a true and fair view of the financial
position of the audited body and its income and
expenditure.
Section
3 covers the auditors responsibilities to satisfy himself or
herself that the audited body has put in place proper arrangements to
ensure economy, efficiency and effectiveness in its use of
resourcesusually referred to as value for money. Section 4
refers to reporting the results of the audit work to the audited body,
including through the published annual audit letter. Auditors also have
a statutory duty to consider, in the public interest, whether to report
on any matter that comes to their attention, so that it may be
considered by the audited body concerned or brought to the attention of
the public, perhaps through a written recommendation to the audited
body requiring the matter to be considered and responded to publicly.
Those are powerful ways of holding public bodies to account.
Section 5 of
the local government code sets out the principles relating to the
exercise of specific powers and duties of local government auditors.
Those include the obligation: to give electors the opportunity to raise
questions about the accounts; to consider and decide on objections
received in relation to those accounts; to apply to the court for a
declaration that an item of account is contrary to law; and to consider
whether it would be appropriate to issue an advisory notice or make an
application for judicial review.
Schedule 1 of
the local government code explains the approach that should be taken to
the audit of small bodies such as parish councils, where annual
income or expenditure is below a certain threshold. The code
recognises that it is the responsibility of such bodies to put in place
proper arrangements to ensure the proper conduct of their financial
affairs.
The codes will
come into effect once they have been approved in this House and in
another place. Once in place, they will continue to provide assurance
that public bodies will be subject to effective, independent audit.
Effective external audit is a fundamental aspect of the scrutiny of
local government and the local NHSnever more so than at a time
when there is intense interest in spend by public bodies, and a drive
to stretch every public pound, to cut waste and to give the public the
information that they needand deserveto hold local
government and local NHS bodies to account. The codes are an essential
part of ensuring that scrutiny.
The
Chairman: The codes can be debated together, but there
will be separate decisions. The time allocated is until 6
oclock. That is not a target to reach, but a time that we must
not go beyond.
4.39
pm
Robert
Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): It is a pleasure to
serve under your chairmanship today, Mr. Russell. As Henry
VIII used to say to his wives, I will do my best not to detain you
long. I am grateful to the Minister for having comprehensively set out
the rationale behind the codes. The Conservative party does not take
any great issue with what is proposed; it is a necessary part of the
process. One or two points are often raised about local government
audits, but I would struggle to raise them in this Committee as they do
not generally fall within the purview of the codes. Members of the
Committee will know that the issue of the level of audit fees is often
raised. However, the remit of the codes do not permit us to debate that
today, although it is perhaps the most significant concern that has
been raised. The Minister is alert to that, and perhaps we can debate
the matter elsewhere.
I note that
both codes refer to the responsibility to produce a remuneration
report, and that is right and proper. In the light of discussions that
have been reported elsewhere, will the Minister tell us whether in due
course it is proposed to issue guidance about the form or content of
the remuneration reports, in relation to local authorities and local
health bodies?
I welcome the
fact that section 5 of the local government code refers to the ability
of local electors to see copies of and question the accounts of local
government bodies. Many people in local government might wish, in the
interests of greater transparency, that a similar provision was in
place in the code for health
authorities.
However, it is
probably not possible to do those things at this stage of the
proceedings, so I will not delay matters further. We shall not oppose
the codes. We have flagged up areas where sensible changes can perhaps
be made in due course, but some of them will undoubtedly require
primary legislation. Restrained as we are by the shape that the codes
must take under the Audit Commission Act 1998, we have no objection to
them as laid before
Parliament.
4.41
pm
John
Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I am pleased to serve
under your chairmanship, Mr. Russell. There is nothing
massively contentious in the codes,
although I, too, wish to mention the concern raised by the hon. Member
for Bromley and Chislehurst. Obviously, the more complicated the codes
and processes are, the higher the fees will be. It is relatively sad to
see that no assessment has been made of what costs will arise from
various aspects of the auditing process. Audits can be done in a number
of different ways, and the way in which they are done affect their
cost.
I
have concerns about the transfer from the Commission for Social Care
Inspection to the Care Quality Commission and Ofsted. Information seems
to have been lost, and it is sad that there has been no information
audit. For instance, serious child care incident notifications before
April 2007 were lost, which is not acceptable. That is not picked up in
the audits that we are considering, but I am concerned that
unacceptable practices are allowed to develop and are not picked up
properly by a regulatory process. Whether that should form part of an
audit at some stage is another question. However, the codes are not
greatly contentious, and I am sure that everybody will vote the same
way.
4.43
pm
Sir
Peter Soulsby (Leicester, South) (Lab): As a former member
of the Audit Commission, I cannot resist the opportunity to say what I
promise will be only a few words about the guidelines. I welcome the
fact that they are being updated in full consultation with the audited
bodies and key stakeholders, as the Minister
said.
However,
I want to pick out one element: the work that the Audit Commission
undertakes with partner inspectorates and the review agencies. Both
sets of practice refer to that. The Audit Commission and those partner
agencies recently undertook an initiative called the Oneplace
assessment. I would like to issue a warning. In some of the Oneplace
assessments done with other agencies under the existing audit practice
code, the auditors have had a tendency to over-simplify their
assessment of services in particular areas by using red and green
flags. That is a somewhat simplistic approach, although I am sure that
it is intended to make the audit more accessible to the communities
served by those bodies. In fact, though, it runs the risk of
simplifying matters to the point of unfairness to the bodies
audited.
I
urge the Minister, in her discussions with the Audit Commission, to
stress the importance of presenting the result of its audits to local
communities in a way that is fair to the bodies audited. Otherwise the
Audit Commission runs the risk of being seen not as a critical friend
to the bodies that it audits, as it was in the past, but as their
hostile enemy.
4.45
pm
Barbara
Follett: I thank hon. Members from all parties for their
forbearance and understanding while we have debated a limited area of
an occasionally contentious subject, and for how they have dealt with
it. I assure the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst that my
Department is working closely with the Chartered Institute of Public
Finance and Accountancy on the form and content of remuneration
reports.
The
points made are all apposite and true. We are strengthening the focus
on ensuring the security of data, which becomes more of a concern the
more
technologically advanced we become. The data and information collected
during an audit can be very potent indeed.
On the points
raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, South, the
comprehensive area assessment, or Oneplace, is an inspection process,
so it is not really covered in the audit code, although I understand
what he says. I quite agree with his wish to see the Audit Commission
and associated bodies more as critical friends than just as
critics.
I thank you,
Mr. Russell, and hon. Members of all parties. I
wish Opposition Members well with their colds.
Question
put and agreed to.
code of audit
practice 2010 for local government
bodies
Resolved,
That
the Committee has considered the Code of Audit Practice 2010 for Local
Government Bodies.(Barbara
Follett.)
4.48
pm
Committee
rose.