| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
The first is the Afghan people and their loyalty. Improving security is about protecting them from Taliban bribery and intimidation, and improving governance, especially at the local level, is about convincing them that it is in their interests to help Afghan and coalition forces do so. The second is the insurgency. Not all insurgents are ideologues; in fact, a minority are. Some fight for money or out of fear. As we ratchet up military pressure, we need to support the Afghan Government in efforts to reintegrate former insurgents back into their villages. Thirdly, we need to support constructive roles for Afghanistan's neighbours. The country has
historically been a chessboard for the battles of others. We must ensure that Afghanistan is a friend to all, but a client of none.
Paul Flynn (Newport, West) (Lab): Could not President Karzai give my right hon. Friend proof of his sincerity to end corruption by making a commitment to arrest his drug-dealing brother, Wali Karzai?
David Miliband: I think I have said to my hon. Friend on a number of occasions that President Karzai's commitment is to follow any evidence with which he is presented. He talked on Thursday about a culture of impunity, which I believe is important. I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree with me that the absolute key is going to be actions rather than words. While we welcome the setting up of units and task forces and the passing of laws, the absolute essence of progress is going to be seeing those turned into reality.
Mr. John Baron (Billericay) (Con): Despite not having supported our initial involvement in Afghanistan, I agree with the Government that the message we send out has to be very clear. Can the Foreign Secretary therefore square the circle regarding some of the contradictory messages that have issued from the Government recently-for example, we heard from the Prime Minister that the presence of British troops is essential in Afghanistan to safeguard the British people from terrorism, yet we also hear that if President Karzai does not clean up his act, British troops will be coming home?
David Miliband: It is very important to be clear about this. Members on both sides of the House have supported a British military presence in Afghanistan because of the security risks that would arise from the rolling over of the Afghan security forces by the insurgency. We know that Afghanistan was the incubator of international terrorism in the 1990s-and the incubator of choice for al-Qaeda. We also know about the dangers for Pakistan that would come from the opening of safe space on the Afghan side of the border for al-Qaeda forces, which are currently under significant pressure.
In respect of conditionality, it is important to be clear, first, that the Government never pay money to Governments abroad for development assistance unless they are sure about how that money is going to be spent. It is certainly a condition placed in a number of countries that when development assistance is paid, we want to ensure that it is followed through down to the ground. In respect of Afghanistan, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development will confirm that condition, although I think I am right in saying that it is PricewaterhouseCoopers that undertakes the international audit to ensure that the money is properly spent. There is also a World Bank trust fund, which is the core means of achieving that, but it is also the case that in other countries where we do have concerns about whether the money will reach those for whom it is intended, that money is not paid through the Government. That is a different question from whether or not the number of British troops has increased, which the Prime Minister has said will be done on the basis of proper burden sharing with allies or with reference to the wider debate. If the hon. Gentleman looks carefully at what the Prime Minister, I and other Ministers have said, he will see that we have kept to that level of detail, which is important.
Mr. Baron: With respect, the Foreign Secretary still has not explained the contradiction: on the one hand, the Government say that British troops are in Afghanistan to protect British citizens from terrorism, and, on the other, that if President Karzai does not clean up his corrupt Government, British troops will come home. That contradiction sends out mixed messages to the British public and to our forces in Afghanistan.
David Miliband: Before the hon. Gentleman takes congratulations on his intervention from those sitting two Benches behind him, I will try to explain why I do not agree with him. There is not a contradiction, because that would suggest that the interests of the Afghan people and our interests in developing a proper partnership between the Afghan Government and the international community are different. The Afghan people are the first to say that corruption is a sap on the loyalty that they feel to their Government. In any counter-insurgency, it is critical that the population's loyalty to their Government is maintained. We are in Afghanistan to ensure that its territorial integrity can be maintained, and that a safe space is not created for international terrorism there. It is consistent to say, clearly, that what is in the Afghan people's interest, and our interest, is a Government whom they can trust. It is right, and essential, that we continue to make that point.
Harry Cohen (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend agree with the report in a newspaper last week that if foreign forces, including ours, were not in Afghanistan, the Afghan Government would fall in a matter of weeks? If that is anywhere near the case, how can they be a popular, democratic Government, and how can our presence be described as anything other than an occupation?
David Miliband: Put simply, because the Afghan national army and associated security forces are being built up from a very low level. All polling evidence, and any conversation with ordinary people in Afghanistan, tells us that they do not want to go back to the Taliban, that they fear Taliban misrule, and that, without foreign forces, their own forces would be unable to withstand attack. Over the past few years, the Afghan national army has been built up to some 90,000, which is a significant step on the road to the 134,000 that General McChrystal has set as an interim target, which has been brought forward to next November-a challenging, but none the less important, time scale. It is completely reasonable that we stick with that plan to build up Afghan security forces so that they can withstand the insurgency. I do not believe that my hon. Friend will find either a majority of Afghan people who seek a withdrawal of British troops, or a majority who suggest that Afghan forces will be able to withstand the insurgency on their own-they will not be able to do so at the moment.
Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): The Prime Minister has clearly said that one of the criteria for keeping British troops in Afghanistan is that the Afghan President cleans up his act against fraud. When will the Government set out what they mean by "cleaning up his act" so that we can judge whether he has met such targets?
David Miliband: If my right hon. Friend refers back to the Prime Minister's speech at the Mansion House last Monday, he will see that of the five areas set out by the Prime Minister, one concerned action against corruption. He went into some detail, for example in respect of the task force that had been set up two days before the speech, by Interior Minister Atmar, whom I met last Thursday in Kabul. The prosecution powers of that task force and its investigative powers need to be turned into a proper legislative form once the appointment of the new Interior Minister, or the reappointment of the existing one, takes place-
Mr. Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman is a very experienced Member and knows that we cannot have sedentary interventions.
David Miliband: What the Prime Minister was setting out was a matter of common sense. The actions of the Afghan Government in respect of how they deliver services and make appointments will be important in determining how the Afghan people see their Government. That will be important to the success with which a counter-insurgency is pursued.
Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): Does the Foreign Secretary accept that it is a question of not just President Karzai but political figures such as Abdullah Abdullah taking some responsibility for Afghanistan as a country, and starting to act in the national interest? They need to deal with corruption collectively, and to act in the collective interest of the country rather than in tribal and individual interests.
David Miliband: My hon. Friend makes an important point. Afghanistan now has a presidential system, but it also has some significant Cabinet Ministers who hold significant power. As for the opposition, they too have an important role to play.
I met Dr. Abdullah in Afghanistan last Thursday. While he has made clear that he does not wish to join a Government of national unity in Afghanistan, he can play an important role in helping to promote a unity programme for any Government. I think that there are significant issues that could bring different sides together; and, as my hon. Friend suggests, if Dr. Abdullah is to become leader of the opposition, he will be able to play a constructive role in that capacity as well.
Hon. Members will know of the ethnic divisions that exist in Afghanistan. An important part of the job of the new Government is to ensure that all parts of Afghan society feel that they have a stake in the political system, at local and national level. As my hon. Friend pointed out, opposition figures have an important responsibility in that respect.
I said that one of the three key tasks for the counter-insurgency related to the region, and especially to Afghanistan's neighbours. One neighbour is more important than any other: Pakistan. For years insurgents have flowed freely backwards and forwards across the Afghan-Pakistan border, and that is not going to stop any time soon. In the last year, however, the Pakistani army has taken the fight to the Pakistani Taliban in Swat, south Waziristan and elsewhere.
I considered it noteworthy that the Chief Minister of the North West Frontier province, Asfandyar Wali Khan, who represents the secular Awami National party in Pakistan, was present at the inauguration of President Karzai. He reported to me the significant progress made in the Swat valley, where as recently as June and July there were some 2.8 million internally displaced persons. Those IDPs have now returned to their houses, and the Pakistani authorities have been able to establish order. The situation in south Waziristan is obviously one of more recent conflict. The insurgents are now, for the first time, being squeezed on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistan border. That is true in the south of Pakistan and also in the east, which I visited earlier in the year.
Our Government will continue to support the action of the Pakistani Government. I assured President Zardari of that last week. We will also encourage Islamabad to focus not just on the Pakistani Taliban, who are a direct threat to the Pakistani state, but also on al-Qaeda and the Afghan Taliban. We will continue to help mitigate the effects of conflict on the Pakistani people with additional humanitarian assistance for those who have been displaced and development assistance to help them to rebuild their lives. The Department for International Development recently committed more than £665 million over four years to Pakistan. We have had some success in getting the European Union to increase its contribution and also to focus on issues such as trade and constitutional and political reform, but we will continue to push for a greater effort.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North) (Lab): Is my right hon. Friend at all concerned about reports in today's newspapers that the United States has been funding militia groups in Afghanistan that could possibly spread to Pakistan? Does that not constitute a revisiting of United States support for militia groups at the time of the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, and could it not sow the seeds for future problems?
David Miliband: I have not seen the reports to which my hon. Friend has referred, but I do not think that the parallel with the mujaheddin fight against the Communist regime-against the Russians-is very apposite. The truth is that in Afghanistan the state will never have a monopoly on violence, and it is as well to be clear about that. It is also true that informal security arrangements at local level have historically been an important part of the balance of power, especially in the south and east of the country. I think it essential for the development of governance arrangements and local policing to take account of that. However, I shall be happy to look at the reports cited by my hon. Friend and write to him about them.
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): Why does the right hon. Gentleman think that the Taliban, who for many years have been confined to the Pashtun, are now gaining support deep in Pakistan?
David Miliband: There is a very obvious answer to that: first, the Pashtun are on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistan border, and, secondly, they have been driven into Pakistan as a result of the 2001 invasion. I am afraid that that is the long and the short of it.
Sir Peter Tapsell: They have not been driven into the Swat valley or Balochistan, which are immense distances away from the Durand frontier.
David Miliband: The multiple insurgencies in Pakistan reflect the whole history of the region, especially that of the entire federally administered tribal areas. The hon. Gentleman will know at least as well as I do that, since 1900, the history of those areas has been extremely fraught. Economic development has never taken place there, political integration with the rest of Pakistan has never properly taken place, and the Pakistani forces have never been properly established a security presence there.
Paul Rowen (Rochdale) (LD): The point here is that there is now terrorist bombing in the Punjab, which is the heart of Pakistan. What does the Foreign Secretary think is the cause of that?
David Miliband: I am happy to go into that, but the truth about the terrorist presence in the Punjab is that at its heart is an organisation called Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is conducting its terrorist operations on the issue of Kashmir. That is its mission. I will be very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman and to go through this with him. He raises an important point, but we should not simply believe that every bombing that takes place in Pakistan has a "Taliban" label. In the case of the Punjab, it does not.
Although the war in Afghanistan consumes more of my attention than any other policy area, the Government continue to work for peace and reconciliation in key conflicts around the world. Across the international community, and perhaps especially throughout the Arab world, there is a strong sense that the middle east peace talks are stalled. This is dangerous for the middle east and, I believe, ultimately dangerous for us.
There is more consensus in the international community than for many years about the basis for a resolution of the dispute between Israel and the Palestinians. The Clinton parameters of 2000-01 broadly encapsulated the terms for a viable two-state solution, but the parties are moving further apart, and those Palestinians and Israelis who are committed to the idea of a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders, with Jerusalem as a shared capital and a fair settlement for refugees, appear smaller in number and weaker in politics than ever before. The US Administration are engaged in a good-faith endeavour to bridge the gap. Their leadership and determination offer the best current hope of progress. We will continue to support these efforts-for example, supporting Prime Minister Fayyad in his economic and security efforts, and delivering aid into Gaza-and like the US and many others, we will continue to reinforce to the Israeli Government, as I will later today when I meet Deputy Prime Minister Shalom, our deepest concern about settlement activity, including in East Jerusalem, which is not just illegal, but provocative and prejudicial to the chance of peace talks. Israel's democracy and values should place it at the heart of the international mainstream, but these acts only play into the hands of those who wrongly seek to delegitimise its very existence. We will not give up on the dwindling opportunity to deliver a two-state solution, because the alternatives-for the people of Israel, Palestine and the region-look so much worse.
Tom Levitt (High Peak) (Lab): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his comments about the urgent need to resolve the political situation posed by the settlements, but will he tell us if there is any hope at all of an end to the blockade on humanitarian aid to Gaza, which is still at crisis point? The lifting of that blockade is urgently needed.
David Miliband: My hon. Friend is right to refer to this as a crisis, except for the fact that, given it has been going on for so long-since the war of last December and January of this year-the word can become cheapened or devalued. My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue, however, and we continue to raise it. The number of aid trucks being allowed in has risen since early spring, but it remains below the United Nations level-500 trucks a day is, I think, the estimate of what is necessary. My hon. Friend makes an important point, because the danger is that the only people who gain from the current policy are Hamas.
Mr. Robert Marshall-Andrews (Medway) (Lab): The Foreign Secretary will be aware that, under the Geneva Conventions Act 1957 and the Geneva Conventions (Amendment) Act 1995, our country has not only a right, but a duty, to pursue in criminal courts those who are responsible for grave breaches of those conventions. As a matter of urgency, will he therefore speak to the Director of Public Prosecutions with a view to issuing warrants against those who have been found by the Goldstone report to be clearly and flagrantly in breach of those conventions?
David Miliband: My reading of the Goldstone report suggests that it raises issues for the state of Israel, rather than for individuals involved in the conflict. We have made it clear that the first step in response to that report is for a full and transparent independent inquiry into the allegations to take place.
On conflict in Africa, in the past year we have seen glimmers of hope in Somalia, with the appointment of President Sharif and the inclusive nature of the Djibouti process. That is important because stability in Somalia will come only through agreement to share power at clan and regional level, and instability there has severe implications for not only the horn of Africa, but the rest of the world. Piracy is just one aspect of that. The House will be pleased to learn that the unity and resolve of the international community in responding to this issue has meant that of those ships following the route that is protected by the EU forces and other navies and complying with industry-agreed best practice, just one has been hijacked in the gulf of Aden since last December. Safety in the 1 million square miles of the Somali basin is, however, much harder to deliver, as, unfortunately, has been proved by the kidnap of the British couple Paul and Rachel Chandler. The thoughts of the whole House will be with them and those working for their release.
In eastern Congo, the humanitarian and human rights situation remains dire, but the rapprochement between Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of the Congo means that for the first time in years there is a real chance of progress.
| Next Section | Index | Home Page |