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The Prime Minister: I do not think that the hon. Gentleman is proposing VAT on fuel, is he? I do not think that the Conservative party wants to raise VAT on fuel. What we have done is introduce a climate change levy, and we have introduced air passenger tax at a higher rate. We have taken measures that are necessary to deal with the problems of the environment and to reduce carbon emissions, and we are taking measures that are in line with what is happening in other countries. But if he wants us to put VAT on fuel, I will oppose him.
Q9. [303216] Julie Morgan (Cardiff, North) (Lab): I was pleased to read over the weekend that the Government are considering moving many of the 130,000 civil service jobs in London and the south-east out to areas where the need is greater. Will my right hon. Friend consider my constituency of Cardiff, North as a destination for more civil service jobs, bearing in mind that the Revenue and Customs building in Llanishen has six empty floors?
The Prime Minister: Cardiff, North is an excellent location for new work and new jobs. As of December 2008, over 3,000 posts have been reallocated from London and the south-east to Wales, and nearly 300 have gone to Cardiff. We want to help areas by creating jobs, not causing unemployment.
Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): The Prime Minister has just told us how he hopes that in a couple of years' time we will have 300,000 troops fighting the Taliban. As that happens to be exactly the number that I told the Government they would need when they first recklessly went in with hopelessly inadequate numbers of troops, who were grossly under-equipped, should he not now resign?
The Prime Minister: President Obama will be grateful for the hon. Gentleman's endorsement of our strategy. The figure of 300,000 means that about 150,000 Afghan troops are trained and ready to take over responsibility, and that is the task over the next year-to train up more Afghan forces. I am very grateful that President Obama has made that the centre of his proposals. That is what our British forces will do, with all the coalition partners. Can I thank the hon. Gentleman again for his advice? He has not always been right: he advised me not to make the Bank of England independent.
Q10. [303217] Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend believe that the Post Office should expand its role in banking, particularly in children's banking, and introduce a wider range of financial services to help sustain the post office network?
The Prime Minister: The services proposed are a Post Office current account, a children's saving account, new services for small business, including a Post Office business account, and a weekly budgeting account for those on low incomes to take advantage of direct debits and reduce bills. Once again, we are taking an institution that is well established in the country and giving it a new purpose serving the whole community. This is what a Labour Government do.
Points of Order
12.33 pm
Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday, in a Westminster Hall debate about proportional representation, the Minister of State, Ministry of Justice, the right hon. Member for North Swindon (Mr. Wills), gave us a guarantee that the Government would not go ahead with plans for a change to the voting system until after the election-so that they would be re-elected to office. In The Times newspaper today, they state that the Prime Minister is determined to table an amendment to the Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill in this Session to bring forward a referendum on the issue. Will you, Mr. Speaker, use your good offices to ensure that the Minister explains properly to us their intentions in that matter?
Mr. Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, but I think that he is really just continuing the debate and, dare I say, inviting me to join it. Newspaper articles in The Times and elsewhere are doubtless always of interest, but they do not necessarily constitute the basis for a point of order.
Greg Mulholland (Leeds, North-West) (LD):
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I seek your advice. On several occasions, I have requested a statement in the House on Eccleshill independent sector treatment centre. Yesterday, a secret report on the centre was published that revealed evidence of inadequate safety procedures, consultants refusing to perform operations, incorrect registration, and invalid insurance. People have lost confidence in that facility. Through your good offices, Mr. Speaker, may I ask you how I can raise this in the House? When will the Secretary of State come before
the House and finally give a statement to reassure people that it is a safe facility to which they and their relatives can go for procedures?
Mr. Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is a very assiduous Member who loses no opportunity to highlight in the House his concerns on behalf of his constituents. Unfortunately, what he has said does not of itself constitute a point of order. However, I would say to him, first, that he has put his views very clearly on the record, and secondly, that as I heard him warming to his theme, it struck me that he might have very good material for an Adjournment debate.
Dr. Evan Harris (Oxford, West and Abingdon) (LD): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. This afternoon, we are going to debate several groups of amendments and new clauses tabled to the Equality Bill. They are massive groups, and it looks as though we will not get through them in one day. May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, if there is anything that could be done by Members of this House, even at this late stage, if we were minded to seek more time to ensure that we are able properly to scrutinise the Bill?
Mr. Speaker: It is often an established principle that it is a good idea to ask a question only when one knows the answer, and I fear that the hon. Gentleman, who is a very experienced parliamentarian, knows that the answer to his question is no. There is nothing that I can do at this stage because, as he will be aware, I am bound by the terms of the programme motion, notwithstanding my own enthusiasm for maximum debate. I fear that I cannot help him on this occasion. Again, however, the hon. Gentleman, on behalf of the people of Oxford, West and Abingdon, has put his views fairly and squarely on the record.
Equality Bill
[ Relevant Document: The Twenty-sixth Report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Session 2008-09, Legislative S crutiny: Equality Bill, HC 1113.]
Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill Committee
'(1) This section applies where-
(a) a person (A) does not proceed with an application by another person (B) for work, after asking about B's health but before making a relevant decision, and
(b) B brings proceedings before an employment tribunal on a complaint that A's conduct in relation to B's application is a contravention of a relevant disability provision.
(2) In the application of section 132 to the proceedings, the circumstances described in subsection (1)(a) are to be treated for the purposes of subsection (2) of that section as facts from which the tribunal could decide that A contravened the provision.
(3) The reference in subsection (1)(a) to making a relevant decision is-
(a) if A requires applicants to undergo one or more assessments, a reference to deciding in the light of the first assessment which applications to proceed with, or
(b) in any other case, a reference to deciding to whom to offer the work (whether by a conditional or unconditional offer).
(4) An assessment is an interview or other process designed to give an indication of a person's suitability for the work concerned; but a condition to undergo an assessment is not to be regarded as a condition for the purposes of subsection (3)(b).
(5) This section does not apply to a question that A asks in so far as asking the question is necessary for the purpose of-
(a) establishing whether a duty to make reasonable adjustments is or will be imposed on A in relation to B in connection with a requirement to undergo an assessment,
(b) monitoring diversity in the range of persons applying to A for work,
(c) taking action to which section 154 would apply if references in that section to persons who share (or do not share) a protected characteristic were references to disabled persons (or persons who are not disabled) and the reference to the characteristic were a reference to disability, or
(d) if A applies in relation to the work a requirement to have a particular disability, establishing whether B has that disability.
(6) Subsection (5)(d) applies only if A shows that, having regard to the nature or context of the work-
(a) the requirement is an occupational requirement, and
(b) the application of the requirement is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.
(7) "Work" means employment, contract work, a position as a partner, a position as a member of an LLP, a pupillage or tenancy, being taken as a devil, membership of a stable, an appointment to a personal or public office, or the provision of an employment service; and the reference in subsection (3)(b) to deciding to whom to offer work is, in relation to contract work, to be read as a reference to deciding who to allow to do the work.
(8) The following, so far as relating to discrimination within section 13 because of disability, are relevant disability provisions-
(9) For the purposes of this section, whether or not a person has a disability is to be regarded as an aspect of that person's health.
(10) This section does not apply to anything done for the purpose of vetting applicants for work for reasons of national security.
(11) Asking about the health of an applicant for work is not of itself a contravention of this Act by virtue of section 13 (although action taken in reliance on the information given in response may be).'.- (Vera Baird.)
Brought up, and read the First time.
12.36 pm
The Solicitor-General (Vera Baird): I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr. Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: new clause 3- Mandatory pay audits
'(1) Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed the Secretary of State shall by regulations require designated employers to conduct a pay audit and to publish information relating to the pay of its employees for the purpose of showing whether there are differences in the pay of male and female employees.
(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) regulations made pursuant to subsection (1) shall require designated employers to publish information including-
(a) the average hourly pay of male workers and the average hourly pay of female workers within its employment;
(b) in respect of each role within the organisation-
(i) the average pay awarded to workers engaged in the role;
(ii) the percentage of men and women engaged in that role;
(iii) the gap, if any, between the average hourly pay of male and female employees in that role; and
(iv) the average length of service of men and women engaged in that role; and
(i) any description of activities carried out in the course of employment with the employer by any group of workers who are wholly or mainly women;
(ii) any descriptions of activities carried out in the course of employment with the employer by any group of workers who are wholly or mainly men;
(iii) the relative values of the descriptions of activities falling within paragraph (c)(i) and paragraph (c)(ii); and
(iv) in relation to descriptions of activities within subsection (c)(i) and subsection (c)(ii) which are judged to be of equal value to each other, the average hourly pay of male workers and average hourly pay of female workers carrying on those activities.
(3) For the purposes of this section, "pay" means the ordinary basic or minimum wage or salary and any other consideration, whether in cash or kind, which the worker receives directly or indirectly, in respect of his employment, from his employer and includes the cost to the employer of-
(a) any pensions contributions paid by the employer in respect of the worker,
(b) any bonus or other performance related or incentive payment, and
(c) any discretionary benefit granted to a worker in connection with his or her employment.
(4) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) regulations made pursuant to that subsection shall specify the process which an employer must follow in conducting a pay audit, the form in which the information must be published, and the degree and means of publicity to be made.
(5) In making regulations pursuant to subsection (1) the Secretary of State shall adopt best practice for promoting awareness of the nature and causes of any pay gap between persons of different genders as set out by the International Labour Organisation from time to time.
(6) The Secretary of State shall consult with the Equality and Human Rights Commission as to how to ensure that the regulations shall reflect best practice prior to the making of the first regulations and no less than every five years thereafter and shall amend the regulations as necessary to ensure that best practice is maintained.
(7) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1) regulations made pursuant to that subsection shall provide that where an employer fails to publish information as required by regulations made pursuant to subsection (1) an employer shall not be entitled to submit a material factor defence in accordance with section 66 in relation to any period for which they are in breach of their obligations under those regulations.
(8) Where the information published by an employer reveals that there is a difference in the average pay of men and women doing relevant types of work as set out in section 61, then in any proceedings to enforce a sex equality rule or sex equality clause it shall be presumed that there is such a breach unless the employer can show a material factor defence.
(9) Regulations made pursuant to subsection (1) may make provision for a failure to comply with the regulations-
(a) to be an offence punishable on summary conviction by a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale;
(b) to be enforced, otherwise than as an offence, by such means as is prescribed.
(10) The reference to a failure to comply with the regulations includes a reference to a failure by a person acting on behalf of an employer.
(11) Regulations made pursuant to subsection (1) shall provide that an employer must conduct a pay audit and publish information relating to the pay of its employees within six months of the coming into force of the regulations.
(12) Regulations made pursuant to subsection (1) shall provide that where an employer (A) is able to determine the terms and conditions of employment as between another employer (B) and its employees, A shall publish the information that B would otherwise be required to publish in a way which is consolidated with the information for all other employees of A whose terms and conditions A may determine, and where A publishes consolidated information B shall not be in breach of those regulations if it does not publish any information.
(13) A designated employer means an employer who has more than 100 employees.
(14) Regulations made pursuant to subsection (1) shall require designated employers publishing information in relation to the average hourly pay of employees to specify how much of the hourly rate constitutes ordinary basic or minimum wage or salary and how much, if any, constitutes other consideration and to specify the types and amounts of any such other consideration.'.
New clause 4- Representative actions in equal pay claims
'(1) The Secretary of State must make regulations to permit the Equality and Human Rights Commission or a registered trade union to apply to a court or tribunal as appropriate for a representative action order in relation to a defined class of persons ("the class") who would benefit from the litigation of rights, or common issues in relation to rights that members of the class may have as a result of the provisions of this Act.
(2) The regulations shall make rules in relation to the making and termination of a representative action order and its conduct.
(3) Such rules shall provide for hearings to be conducted in private when it is necessary for the issues between the members of the class and the Equality and Human Rights Commission or a registered trade union to be resolved and those issues are subject to legal professional privilege shared by members of the class.
(4) Such rules shall make provision for the hearing of any issue as defined in subsection (3) to be undertaken and managed by a different judge or tribunal from the judge and tribunal that have the responsibility for determining the rights or common issue in relation to rights, of the member class.'.
New clause 5- Hypothetical comparisons in equal pay cases
'(1) To the extent set out in subsections (2) and (3), sections 63 to 66 apply where a person (A) does not have a colleague (B) who does work that falls within section 61, because there is no such person of the opposite sex to A.
(2) The provisions of section 63 will apply to the extent that a term of A's is less favourable than a corresponding term of B would be, or that A does not have a term which B would have.
(3) The provisions of section 64 will apply to the extent that a term of A's is less favourable than a corresponding term of B would be, or if a discretion in relation to A is capable of being exercised in a way which is less favourable than it would be in relation to B.'.
New clause 6- Defence of material factor (No. 2)
'(1) The sex equality clause in A's terms has no effect in relation to a difference between A's terms and B's terms if the responsible person shows that the difference is because of a material factor-
(a) which does not constitute discrimination because of sex within the meaning of section 13, and
(b) if the factor puts or would put A and persons of the same sex as A at a particular disadvantage when compared with persons of the opposite sex, reliance upon that factor is shown by the responsible person to be objectively justified by a legitimate aim and appropriate and necessary to the achievement of that aim.
(2) A sex equality rule has no effect in relation to a difference between A and B in the effect of a relevant matter if the trustees or managers of the scheme in question show that the difference is because of a material factor which-
(a) does not constitute discrimination because of sex within the meaning of section 13, and
(b) if the factor puts or would put A and persons of the same sex as A at a particular disadvantage when compared with persons of the opposite sex, reliance upon that factor is shown by the responsible person to be objectively justified by a legitimate aim and appropriate and necessary to the achievement of that aim.
(3) "Relevant matter" has the meaning given in section 64.
(4) For the purposes of this section, a factor is not material unless it is a material difference between A's case and B's.'.
New clause 11- Pre-interview discrimination protection
'An employer (A) discriminates against a person (B) in the arrangements A makes for deciding who to offer employment if A fails to take reasonable steps to ensure that-
(a) the selection for interview is carried out on an anonymous basis, and
(b) the person selecting for interview does not know the gender, race, sexual orientation, age or marital status of B or whether B has a disability.'.
New clause 17- Discussions with third parties
'(1) A term of a person's work that prevents or restricts the person (P) from being involved in discussions with third parties about the terms of P's work is unenforceable against P insofar as P is involved in a relevant pay discussion.
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