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7 Jan 2010 : Column 164WH—continued
Angela E. Smith:
As tempting as my hon. Friend's invitation is, what I have said is on the record. The register should be publicly available and contain the names of individuals and organisations carrying out or advising on lobbying and the details of any third-party
interests that they represent. That is the minimum that we would expect of the register. As I move on, the other comments that I make may be helpful. As I said, I have been on both sides of the fence on this issue, and I am convinced that the majority of lobbying takes place in a legitimate and beneficial way. My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase made the point that MPs are themselves lobbyists for their constituents on issues of concern. However, we must do significantly more to ensure that lobbying takes place in an appropriate framework and to provide the public with greater reassurance that that is the case.
Mr. Gordon Prentice: This is just on the back of what my friend the Member for Selby said. I do not want to labour the point, but I am told that the Solicitors Regulation Authority will not change the code of conduct that prevents legal firms from disclosing client lists, so will the Minister urge the authority to examine that issue and perhaps amend its code to allow for the publication of clients?
Angela E. Smith: I do not really understand why, if the solicitors body thinks that it is appropriate for it to sign up to the register, it thinks that it needs legislation to do so. In fact, I see no objection to it changing its code of conduct. I cannot understand the reluctance to change a code of conduct to sign up. I hope that it would want to sign up. That will be one of the issues that I want to discuss with Sir Philip Mawer as well.
The hon. Member for Ruislip-Northwood asked that I employ a big stick. I sometimes prefer a carrot to a stick, but both can be employed when required. I think that hon. Members would agree that it is very important that, whatever we do, we do not exclude the rights of individuals, charities and others individually to lobby Members of Parliament or Ministers. The lobbying industry is aware that I am keeping a very close eye on the progress that it is making in respect of establishing the council and a publicly available register of lobbying activity.
Dr. Tony Wright: I am not sure whether this is a carrot question or a stick question, but it is just for the purposes of clarity. My right hon. Friend is being very helpful in describing what she thinks the necessary ingredients of any serious self-regulatory structure are. When we reach the point at Easter when we see the shape and details of what is being proposed, we shall have to make a judgment about whether it meets those tests. What will the Government do if we arrive at an unsatisfactory position, which does not have universal scope, the right amount of coverage, enforcement or a register that satisfactorily includes everybody?
Angela E. Smith: That is one of the biggest questions on the issue. If we do not get this right, the Government have not said that there will not be an opportunity for a statutory register in future, but the industry should be given the opportunity for voluntary self-regulation. There is now an opportunity for the industry to meet that obligation. Between now and Easter, I shall meet with Sir Philip Mawer and the implementation team to ensure that we reach that point. If at Easter we are not satisfied that adequate progress is being made, the Government will think again and review the position. I will obviously discuss it with my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase if we get to that point. I share something of Sir Philip's confidence that there is an indication from and real will in the lobbying industry to make such change. I hope not to be disappointed and will be monitoring the position to ensure that I am not.
Kelvin Hopkins: My fear, which I am afraid the Minister has not reassured me on, is that the big fish I am interested in will just get away. We may get 99 per cent. of lobbyists such as the ones that I am associated with; some of them might like to be on a voluntary register as it would give them higher status. I am sure that CND would be very pleased to be on a register of lobbyists-"We're lobbyists, we're doing a good job". However, the big fish, the big contracts, the money and the global corporations will find their way through and not be caught.
Angela E. Smith: That is why I said that universality was so important. We do not want people slipping through the net. We want universality in signing up to the register.
Mr. Grogan: I am getting encouraged again, Minister. So, given that she wants universality, does she agree that all multi-client lobbyists should declare their clients? The words would be magnificent if she issued them.
Angela E. Smith: I think that I have been really clear on this. It is really helpful if all organisations declare all their clients. It is very helpful to have universality. Universality is essential. Those are the kind of issues that I will discuss with Sir Philip Mawer when I see him next week. I had hoped to satisfy the Committee, but I fear that I cannot satisfy everyone, even on my birthday. I hope that the meetings that I have with Sir Philip and representatives of the lobbying industry will ensure that speedy and effective progress is made to establish the public affairs council to take the issue forward in the way the House wants.
4.12 pm
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