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Mr. Chope:
I think that my hon. Friend has misread the clause. It does not deal simply with facts; it deals with propaganda approved by the Department of Health. If the Department says that something is a health risk, even if it is not, under the clause it could require the provider of a sunbed to put up a notice containing the information that it posed a health risk when it did not. We seem to be moving away from the concept of factual information. If the information is factual, the Bill should state that it is. If the information is not factual, a
remedy will be available under consumer protection or trading standards legislation that prohibits people from making false claims. Are we really saying that the state-the Government-should require each sunbed salon to put up notices that comply 100 per cent. with terms laid down by it, at the centre? These are some of the most prescriptive measures that I have ever come across.
Mr. Burns: I am sure there is a middle way between our different points of view. I am sure my hon. Friend does not object to the fact that in the safe sex campaigns the Department of Health and others educate people about the health risks of unsafe sex; indeed, I believe he thinks that that is sensible. These proposals are on a par with such campaigns, which most people in this country regard as highly beneficial, informative and educational.
Mr. Chope: Taking my hon. Friend's analogy further, in effect this Bill would require every nightclub in the country to put signs up on notice boards, and to do so in such a way as to conform with a series of prescribed rules-on where the notice boards must be located, for example, and the size of both the notices and the writing on them. All of that would have to be prescribed from the centre. That is, in effect, what this clause is saying must be done in respect of health information and sunbeds.
Mr. Burns: I am a bit confused. Why would all this be put up in nightclubs?
Mr. Chope: I am sorry that my hon. Friend is confused. He has been talking about unsafe sex. As I understand it, all sorts of allegations are made against sunbed parlours, but I do not think that even their most vigilant and enthusiastic opponents have yet claimed that they are places where unsafe sex takes place. It may well be desirable to warn people about unsafe sex, but if we apply my hon. Friend's analogy to clause 5, the equivalent measure would be for it to be required that notices be put up in a prescribed form in a prescribed location and with prescribed content. Nobody-not even my hon. Friend, with his understandable concern to reduce the amount of unsafe sex-would suggest that the Department of Health should be so prescriptive about health information for sunbed users.
Angela Watkinson: If there were to be a power to require the proprietors of sunbed establishments to provide information to users, does my hon. Friend think it would be reasonable for there to be a similar power to require users to provide relevant information to the establishment, particularly about their age and any health complications that they know of?
Mr. Chope: My hon. Friend is saying, with her typical fair-mindedness, that if we are going to have these powers, there must be a two-way street. There are no measures in this Bill that would impose a duty or obligation on a sunbed user to provide accurate information to the provider or leaser of that sunbed, let alone any measures addressing the provision of false information. That shows that the legislation does not provide a level playing field, but that, basically, it is designed to place an additional-and, in my view, unfair-burden on the legitimate and lawful operators of tanning salons.
The Sunbed Association wholeheartedly agrees that salons should display appropriate advice and information on who can use a sunbed and how to use a sunbed responsibly, but it does not think it necessary to include a provision prohibiting any sunbed business from providing or displaying statements relating to the health benefits, because the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 are already in force, and they prohibit unproven, unfounded and misleading claims. Clause 5 is, therefore, at best a duplication of the 2008 consumer protection regulations, and at worst, goes far beyond them by seeking to introduce what I consider to be unreasonable, detailed prescriptive requirements, including the imposition of penalties for failure to comply.
11.15 am
We know that a big debate continues out in the real world about the merits or demerits of using sunbeds. I recall reading an article in, I think, the Daily Mail-whether one likes it or not, a lot of people take their health advice from the columns of the Daily Mail -which said that there are substantial benefits from using sunbeds. One can therefore envisage a situation in which a sunbed salon might take that page out of the Daily Mail and put it on a notice board, and then find that it is on the wrong side of the law because the Department of Health had reached a different conclusion, or wanted to peddle a different propaganda message. I therefore think that the terms of clause 5 represent a very sinister part of the Bill, and, once again, they show that its supporters and promoter have got things out of perspective and proportion, and that they are trying to introduce draconian powers far in excess of what is required to address the problem-if problem there be.
As I have now explained the reasons why amendment 16 proposes to leave out clause 5, I shall move on to amendment 31, which would leave out clause 10(2)(a). As a result, there would be no power to make regulations to
"make different provision for different cases or different areas".
This is, in a sense, a probing amendment. Why might we want to introduce regulations to allow for different provisions to apply? There could be different provisions for, to use race codes, a person with a white skin and somebody with skin of a darker hue. What justification could there be for introducing regulations to distinguish between those two different clients? Also, what justification could there be for introducing rules that might apply differently in Liverpool, in Bournemouth or in Christchurch? Before we give the Government the power to make regulations that may make different provision for different cases or areas, I think we need to know why: what is the justification for this?
Is the Bill, in effect, hybrid legislation by the back door? The promoter of the Bill may intend the regulations to apply particularly to the city of Cardiff because there is, apparently, a problem in Cardiff that needs to be addressed. Or it may be that the hon. Lady thinks there ought to be special provision relating to the city of Liverpool, which has been described as many things, but for the purposes of this debate, it is known as the sunbed capital of the United Kingdom, where there is a higher use of sunbeds than in any other conurbation.
It would be wrong to describe that as an epidemic, as that would suggest that there is something wrong with using sunbeds. I know that this is not a topic on which my great friend the Mayor of London has yet found it
necessary to comment, but perhaps in due course he may wish to comment, if we found ourselves with differential regulations singling out Liverpool or Cardiff for particular treatment under the provisions of the Bill.
I will give way to the Minister if she wishes to explain and justify this part of the Bill, as I understand that the Bill was drafted largely by civil servants in her Department, so it might be useful to hear what the justification could be. In the absence of a strong case being made, it would be much better, in the spirit of compromise, to leave out subsection (2)(a) of clause 10.
If the Bill goes forward, it will have a differential impact in different parts of the country because it is part of the culture, as I understand it, in Liverpool, Sunderland and perhaps Cardiff for young people to use sunbeds to a much greater extent than they do in other parts of the country. On the back of that, many people have entered the marketplace and set up businesses to meet that need. Those locations are not regarded as being the most prominent centres of high employment and entrepreneurial activity in the country-they all have unemployment problems far greater than some other parts of the country-and the consequences of the Bill may be a differential loss of business and of employment in those important conurbations. I hope that in responding to the debate, the hon. Member for Cardiff, North will address some remarks to that issue.
That brings me to amendment 11, which would remove subsection (2) from clause 11. Subsection (2) states:
"Subsection (3) applies to an instrument containing (whether alone or with other provisions)-
(a) regulations under section 4, or
(b) regulations under section 5 or 6 which-
(i) create an offence or increase the penalty for an offence, or
(ii) make provision about any of the matters mentioned in section 10(4)(a) to (c)."
The effect of amendment 11, together with amendments 10 and 12, is that all the regulations would have to be made by affirmative resolution, rather than by negative resolution. Those regulations would be under the control of Parliament or the National Assembly for Wales, made by Welsh Ministers. Why do I think any such regulations should be subject to affirmative resolution? Because we are dealing with significant potential new burdens to be placed upon business.
We are discussing quite controversial areas of the law in relation to the health impact or otherwise of the use of sunbeds, and because the Government or the promoter of the Bill have chosen to leave an enormous amount of material unexposed to parliamentary scrutiny at present, which they have it in mind at some stage to table in the form of regulations, those regulations should have to be subject to debate in Parliament. We know that the shortcoming, as always with regulations, is that it would not be possible to amend them, but at least they would have to be debated, and Members of Parliament would have the chance to comment on them and respond to any concerns that constituents might have raised in relation to them.
That group of amendments is significant and must be seen in the context of the whole. In conclusion, there is a big problem with the Bill in relation to the burden that it will impose. It is said that the total costs of enforcing the provisions of the Bill would be only £88,000 a year.
If that is the case, we might say that an enormous amount of hot air is being expended for very little activity on the ground-£88,000 would be about £200 per constituency throughout the country. One can hardly see £200 worth of inspection, regulation and enforcement delivering much of a transformation to the world of tanning salons, particularly in those city centres where there is an enormous amount of activity. If, as a consequence of the Bill, there would be such a minor cost for the regulators, the challenge that I put to the promoter is this: why are we bothering with such prescriptive regulation? Would it not be much better to go in for a much lighter touch?
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The question is that new clause 1 be read a Second time. Does the hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Julie Morgan) wish to respond? Does the Minister wish to speak?
Mr. Deputy Speaker: May I say to the House that I am not a mind reader? Unless Members rise and indicate their wish to speak, I cannot call them.
Mark Simmonds: I apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I had assumed that the hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Julie Morgan) would wish to respond, but she has evidently decided not to do so on this group of amendments.
I congratulate the hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mrs. James) on getting the Bill-
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. May I make it clear, in case there is any misunderstanding, that the hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Julie Morgan) can come in at whichever stage she likes, so she may well decide to contribute later in the proceedings?
Mark Simmonds: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for the clarification.
The hon. Member for Cardiff, North and those supporting the Bill will be aware that from the Conservative Front Bench we are supportive of it. We are keen to see the Bill progress on to the statute book as fast as possible. It could make a significant difference to the rates and prevalence of skin cancer in young people and, through the information that has been mentioned, create a much greater awareness of lifestyle choices and their impact on the health of young people.
There is substantial clinical evidence to support the proposed change in the law, not just from Cancer Research UK but from the World Health Organisation, the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and clinicians. There has been a significant increase in the incidence of malignant melanoma and other health conditions. In addition, the European scientific committee looked into this and produced a good report in 2006. The Sunbed Association, the overarching association for responsible sunbed operators, of which there are many, is also in favour of this Bill.
11.30 am
The Bill was stress-tested on Second Reading and in Committee. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr. Chope) was right to reiterate some of the points that he had made so eloquently, and it will be interesting
to hear the Minister respond to some of the detail of those. However, we must ensure that we do not give the impression to the electorate that the House is against responsible sunbed operators. We are not. We want to ensure that they can thrive in a properly regulated structure.
I am slightly surprised by a couple of my hon. Friend's amendments, particularly those seeking to remove clause 3, the exemptions for medical purposes-I am glad he said that was only a probing amendment-and clause 5, which relates to the provision of relevant and appropriate information to those using sunbeds. There is a real problem at the moment in the UK about people understanding the impact of their lifestyle choices on their health in the long term, and providing effective, relevant and accurate factual information is a key part of improving the dislocation that exists at the moment. There is no doubt that one reason for the UK's poor five-year cancer survival rates is the lack of earlier diagnosis, which again relates to poor information and understanding of lifestyle choices. Information is key in this regard.
Mr. Chope: My hon. Friend has already referred to the Sunbed Association's support for the Bill in general, but he will accept that it does not support the provisions in clause 5 that duplicate the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, which already prohibit unproven, unfounded and misleading health claims.
Mark Simmonds: I am not sure that I share my hon. Friend's analysis of the Sunbed Association's position on that. We discussed this in Committee, and subsequently there has been some correspondence clarifying the role of those responsible for the advertisements and misleading advertisements and the contents of the clause. I see the Minister acknowledging that she will address this when she replies.
My hon. Friend is right to push the Government for more detailed clarification through new clause 1. He will be aware that that was an issue that I raised on Second Reading and in Committee. We are talking about a 2007 EU declaration on sunbed equipment, which the Government signed up to, but they have still to announce any time scale for its implementation, unlike many other EU states. The EU scientific committee on irradiance levels set out clearly, as my hon. Friend accurately reiterated, 0.3 W per square metre as the safe level. Any level above that was deemed to be unsafe. That was set out in January 2007, which is considerably more than three years ago.
The Sunbed Association, in wishing to put pressure on the Government by saying that they need to consider new clause 1, really wants, as do I, some clarification from the Minister about the time scale within which the EU declaration will be fully implemented. If other EU countries can do it, and have done it already, why cannot we do it in the UK? I hope that the Minister today will come up with a response to that. COMARE, which, as the Minister will be aware, is a research body, said that full implementation was needed as fast as possible, but that advice seems to have been ignored. It would be helpful if the Minister could set out today the minimum time scale for implementation.
The other main thrust of my hon. Friend's amendments was the change to the age limit. If we are being honest, we must accept that the clinical evidence as between 16,
18, 21 and 25 is questionable, but there is no doubt that some sort of additional regulation is necessary to reduce the incidence of skin cancer among young people. The point that my hon. Friend the Member for West Chelmsford (Mr. Burns) made in his usual forensic manner was absolutely right. The age of 18 fits comfortably with other pieces of public health legislation, whether it be on smoking or drinking. Therefore, the conclusion of the hon. Member for Cardiff, North, no doubt in consultation with the Department of Health, that 18 is the right age is correct.
In the process of enabling young people to understand the impact of their lifestyle choices, the Government need to work more closely than they have so far with both the charitable and voluntary sector and with schools and businesses to raise awareness of the symptoms and risks of skin cancer, and to work towards changing the attitudes of some young people, which was exactly the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch.
It is clear that there are significant problems in some parts of the country. The great cities of Sunderland and Liverpool are always the exemplars. There needs to be a much greater focus on changing attitudes in particular geographical areas where there is a significant problem, not just-although it is important and related to the Bill-with regard to the impact of overexposure to UV light, but in making sure that people understand the impact of natural sunlight if they are not protected. Clearly, there is a significant ignorance on those two points. When focus groups and people are asked about the lifestyle choices that they make that may give rise to prevalent rates of cancer, it is interesting that the only one of the main six that people mention is smoking. Those of us who are interested in reducing the rates of cancer in this country still face an enormous job in getting those key messages across.
Mr. Chope: Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the things that adds to the problem is the widespread belief that melanoma is a type of cancer that is easily cured and treated, and that in any event it will occur many years after the exposure takes place, so there is little immediate threat?
Mark Simmonds: My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. The length of time from the initial exposure to artificial light or sunlight to the occurrence of skin cancer is one of the major problems in making people take this issue seriously. However, I do not think-although I am not saying that my hon. Friend is suggesting this-that that is an excuse to do nothing. We must do what we can to ensure that people understand the potential risks of exposure to artificial and natural sunlight.
I assure the Minister and the hon. Members for Cardiff, North and for Swansea, East that we on the Opposition Front Bench support the Bill, and we hope that it has an expeditious passage into law.
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