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Secondly, unless MPs are very discriminating indeed-I shall explain why that is hard to be-they intrude on the competences of other representatives. Concerns about planning, housing, education and many other services offered by local councils really lie within the responsibility of a councillor. Many electors, however, feel that contacting
7 Apr 2010 : Column 1148
an MP-"going to the top", as has been said to me on many occasions-is more effective and that if I should pass a matter to a councillor, I am "passing the buck" on the complaint that has been raised. I see you nodding, Madam Deputy Speaker, as I say this, and I would be surprised if most constituency MPs had not had similar experiences.

In addition, local political competition may dissuade MPs from passing casework to a councillor from an opposing party. As I have said, simply building on the database of contacts one has from electors on whatever subject provides a strong incentive to pursue a complaint, whether it is relevant to the responsibilities of an MP or not.

We may also find that Members of Parliament are ill equipped for such purposes. I am not a lawyer, yet I regularly receive queries in regard to which some legal knowledge is at least desirable. I am not a financial adviser, yet I have often received queries about pensions. I am not a benefits specialist, yet I frequently receive queries about benefit entitlement. If the compass of an MP's role is so wide, MPs need appropriate resources in order to address at least the common concerns. Given the scale of their casework-in a typical year, I deal with well over 2,000 new cases-offering a quality service is a challenge. I emphasise the word "quality", because I am not talking about a simple acknowledgement or routine correspondence. Adding genuine value by saying something of substance is quite difficult.

It seems certain that the increase in constituency work, willingly undertaken by Members, will compress the attention given to their other functions. Critical parts of the role of the House of Commons are already poorly fulfilled. For instance, the scrutiny of huge volumes of European legislation is manfully tackled by a very small resource. It is arguable that the House transferred detailed scrutiny of legislation to the House of Lords far too readily, and the Finance Bill-with which I have dealt in the House on several occasions-suffers particularly when that cover from the Lords is unavailable. While Select Committee work remains a largely quality process of scrutiny and policy contribution, much of Question Time on the Floor of the House is a formulaic mix of partisan work and constituency name-checking.

I have always regarded constituency work as both a good in itself, providing a service that is clearly demanded, and a resource. There is not a complete division between a Member's constituency role and his or her parliamentary work. I regularly say that if I do not learn something new through my constituency correspondence almost every day, I cannot be doing my job. The sheer variety of subjects raised forces one to learn., and it often prompts parliamentary activity.

I have also always regarded correspondence that I receive as personal. If someone takes the trouble to write to me, at the very least I should look at the letter and give some direction on the response, if I cannot reply myself. Until recently, I replied to most letters personally, and that personal link remains an important anchor in the job, connecting Members to local realities and broadening their knowledge.

You will sense, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I am not suggesting that the shift in emphasis is wrong. It serves a need, and it delivers a wider value. However, it has taken place silently, gradually and patchily, without strategy and without any genuine engagement with
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citizens on what they want from MPs. Results of surveys suggest that about half of them believe that MPs should represent the views of local people, but do they mean that in the sense in which Burke tried to define the relationship? I rather think not. And how is it possible to determine what those views really are? They are, of course, diverse, and it is difficult to weigh them against each other in terms of volume and quality.

Nearly the same proportion of citizens suggest that an MP should represent a national interest. Setting aside how that might be defined, we must ask whether there is a conflict between the two goals, the serving of local interests and local concerns and the national interest. In some circumstances, there is.

I hope that when the House reassembles after the election, it will seek to establish the purposes of an MP through a process of public engagement. Once we have that foundation, we can better define the resources that are required, the procedures and business balance of this place, the skills that are desirable, the relationship with the other parts of our country's governance, and even, I have to say-because it forms part of the programme of one party at the election-the broad number of MPs that there should be. To cut the number without any intellectual apparatus relating to justification of the role of an MP is frankly lazy and facile.

11.29 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Barbara Follett): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Mr. Todd) on securing this debate, which will be one of the last of this Parliament. It will be the last time that we three shall stand here together, Madam Deputy Speaker. Like you and I, my hon. Friend came into this place in 1997, and in the next few days we shall all leave it.

My hon. Friend has been a committed and assiduous Member of Parliament since his arrival here 13 years ago. I know, from many long nights in this place talking to him, how passionately hard he has worked for his constituents. During his time here he has held a number of posts, including Parliamentary Private Secretary to Baroness Symons when she was Deputy Leader of the Lords and when she was in the Foreign Office and the Department of Trade and Industry. He has also served on a number of Select Committees and is currently a member of the Treasury Committee.

Tonight my hon. Friend has spoken thoughtfully, knowledgeably and, occasionally, amusingly about the changing role of a Member of Parliament in the 21st century. As he so rightly emphasised, this is a growing role and one that is increasingly scrutinised by organisations such as TheyWorkForYou.com, which is mainly based on the internet. They scrutinise aspects of the role that not everyone would consider to be as important as they do.

I agree with my hon. Friend that establishing the purposes of an MP and then deciding the resources, procedure and business balance would be enormously helpful. I well remember my first few days in this place and how overwhelming the role suddenly seemed. As he said, the role broadly has three different responsibilities:
7 Apr 2010 : Column 1150
holding the Executive to account through membership of Select Committees and through questions; participating in deliberation on legislation; and representing constituents in Parliament. As he so rightly emphasised, the latter has become far and away the larger part of one's job.

Hon. Members will know that my husband is a writer. He has recently been writing about Members of Parliament in the 1920s and has been constantly interrupting my work and his to tell me how little they did. He described how many books they managed to read, how much hunting they managed to do and how much time they managed to spend with their families. Things have changed from the days when Members of Parliament would visit their constituencies only once a year and be greeted at the station with flags and celebrations by their constituents. Members now live in their constituencies; most of us spend the majority of our week and of our summer in them. We live in our constituencies because we want to know those constituencies so that we can better represent them. That is a good development, but it also means that the balance of our work here has changed. I passionately believe that the work of a Member of Parliament is extremely important and that before we make decisions about the number of people we have in this place and the way we work, we need to discuss it in a way that we have so far failed to do. The Government have taken the role of the Member of Parliament seriously and the Modernisation Committee has considered some aspects of it, but it has never held an investigation into that specific subject.

The work of Members of Parliament has been the subject of much public attention during the past year. That can only increase in the run-up to the general election. One of the things that the Modernisation Committee has done-it did it when I was a member-has been to engage the public more in the work of the House. The launch of the new website last year improved public accessibility to information about the functions of MPs and Parliament. As my hon. Friend rightly said, those functions are not clear and not everyone does the same thing, so there is no real yardstick against which people can measure the work of their Member of Parliament compared with that of others.

The Select Committee on Reform of the House of Commons' recent report recommended ways in which Parliament could better interact with the public. The Government accepted these recommendations and are committed to engaging the public in the work of Parliament. On 22 February, the House agreed that consideration should be given to a new system whereby petitions from the public could trigger a debate in the House. The House also agreed that during the next Parliament there would be a trial of debates on petitions in Westminster Hall.

Members play the crucial role of holding Ministers to account over their proposals to amend or make law. The close and detailed scrutiny of Bills and delegated legislation is invaluable. As my hon. Friend rightly said, the volume of this legislation-in particular the legislation coming in from Europe-needs to be considered. We do not need to be overwhelmed by it, but we must ensure that we have both the time and the resources to cope with it.

The introduction of pre-legislative scrutiny has also added to work loads. However, it has made a lot of legislation a great deal better and I welcome it. I welcome
7 Apr 2010 : Column 1151
the fact that four out of five draft Bills that received pre-legislative scrutiny in the 2008-09 Session were introduced.

There are also private Members' Bills, which in some cases allow Members to bring their own policies into law. I know that my hon. Friend has had success with his own private Member's Bill, which became the Co-operatives and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003. That Act has protected charities, housing associations and clubs from asset strippers and it is something of which both this House and he should be proud.

Members of Parliament are also responsible for holding the Prime Minister and his Cabinet colleagues to account. That is done daily through written and oral parliamentary questions. As a Minister, I know how important they are in my work load and how much time and thought go into their setting and their answering. The same is true of the departmental Select Committees.

Over the past 13 years, the increasing work load and increasing number of subjects to be discussed has led to the establishment of Westminster Hall as a parallel Chamber. That has given hon. Members more opportunities to raise and debate issues of regional significance. The appointment of Regional Ministers-I have the honour of being the Minister for the East of England-and of
7 Apr 2010 : Column 1152
Regional Select Committees has certainly added to the Government's accountability across the United Kingdom and brought the regions, Whitehall and Westminster closer together.

Given all that has been said tonight, the theory and practice of the role of Members of Parliament has grown. In the past 13 years, my hon. Friend has been exemplary in his service to the House and to his constituents. I know that, as we leave this House, many of us are thinking of ways it could have been made better in those 13 years. I personally regret that we did not manage to address the hours of the House sufficiently to make it an attractive place for younger people with families and other commitments. I hope that that will be considered in future, alongside the role of MPs, because in order to do his or her job well, an MP must, by necessity, have a well-rounded family and personal life.

It has been a privilege to serve alongside my hon. Friend, and with you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish you well in the future, and, on behalf of the Government, I thank my hon. Friend for his work.

Question put and agreed to.

11.41 pm

House adjourned.


7 Apr 2010 : Column 1153

Deferred Division


Children and young persons


The House divided: Ayes 259, Noes 152.
Division No. 127]




AYES


Abbott, Ms Diane
Alexander, rh Mr. Douglas
Anderson, Mr. David
Anderson, Janet
Austin, Mr. Ian
Austin, John
Bailey, Mr. Adrian
Bain, Mr. William
Baird, Vera
Balls, rh Ed
Barron, rh Mr. Kevin
Battle, rh John
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Benton, Mr. Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Mr. Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blizzard, Mr. Bob
Blunkett, rh Mr. David
Bradshaw, rh Mr. Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr. Nicholas
Browne, rh Des
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Burnham, rh Andy
Butler, Ms Dawn
Byrne, rh Mr. Liam
Caborn, rh Mr. Richard
Cairns, David
Campbell, Mr. Alan
Campbell, Mr. Ronnie
Caton, Mr. Martin
Cawsey, Mr. Ian
Challen, Colin
Chapman, Ben
Clapham, Mr. Michael
Clarke, rh Mr. Charles
Clarke, rh Mr. Tom
Clelland, Mr. David
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Mr. Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cohen, Harry
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, Mr. David
Creagh, Mary
Cryer, Mrs. Ann
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Tony
Darling, rh Mr. Alistair
David, Mr. Wayne
Davidson, Mr. Ian
Dean, Mrs. Janet
Dismore, Mr. Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Donohoe, Mr. Brian H.
Doran, Mr. Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, Mr. David
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs. Louise
Engel, Natascha
Ennis, Jeff
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Mr. Michael (Worcester)
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings and Rye)
Francis, Dr. Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Mr. Neil
Gilroy, Linda
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Griffiths, Nigel
Grogan, Mr. John
Hall, Mr. Mike
Hamilton, Mr. David
Hanson, rh Mr. David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr. Tom
Havard, Mr. Dai
Healey, rh John
Henderson, Mr. Doug
Hendrick, Mr. Mark
Hepburn, Mr. Stephen
Heppell, Mr. John
Hesford, Stephen
Heyes, David
Hill, rh Keith
Hodgson, Mrs. Sharon
Hoon, rh Mr. Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr. George
Howells, rh Dr. Kim
Hoyle, Mr. Lindsay
Hughes, rh Beverley
Humble, Mrs. Joan
Hutton, rh Mr. John
Iddon, Dr. Brian
Illsley, Mr. Eric
Ingram, rh Mr. Adam

Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs. Siân C.
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Ms Diana R.
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr. Kevan
Jones, Lynne
Jones, Mr. Martyn
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Keen, Alan
Keen, Ann
Kelly, rh Ruth
Kemp, Mr. Fraser
Khan, rh Mr. Sadiq
Kidney, Mr. David
Ladyman, Dr. Stephen
Laxton, Mr. Bob
Lazarowicz, Mark
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Mr. Ivan
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, Mr. Elfyn
Love, Mr. Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Mackinlay, Andrew
MacShane, rh Mr. Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr. Gordon
Martlew, Mr. Eric
McAvoy, rh Mr. Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Chris
McCarthy, Kerry
McCarthy-Fry, Sarah
McCartney, rh Mr. Ian
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr. Pat
McFall, rh John
McKechin, Ann
McNulty, rh Mr. Tony
Merron, Gillian
Michael, rh Alun
Milburn, rh Mr. Alan
Miliband, rh Edward
Mitchell, Mr. Austin
Mole, Chris
Morden, Jessica
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, Mr. George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, Mr. Denis
Murphy, rh Mr. Jim
Naysmith, Dr. Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, rh Mr. Mike
O'Hara, Mr. Edward
Olner, Mr. Bill
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Palmer, Dr. Nick
Pearson, Ian
Plaskitt, Mr. James
Pope, Mr. Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Bridget
Prentice, Mr. Gordon
Price, Adam
Primarolo, rh Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Mr. Ken
Purnell, rh James
Raynsford, rh Mr. Nick
Reed, Mr. Andy
Reed, Mr. Jamie
Reid, rh John
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr. Geoffrey
Roy, Lindsay
Ruddock, Joan
Russell, Christine
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mr. Mohammad
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr. Virendra
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheerman, Mr. Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Simon, Mr. Siôn
Simpson, Alan
Skinner, Mr. Dennis
Slaughter, Mr. Andy
Smith, Ms Angela C. (Sheffield, Hillsborough)
Smith, rh Angela E. (Basildon)
Soulsby, Sir Peter
Spellar, rh Mr. John
Starkey, Dr. Phyllis
Stewart, Ian
Stoate, Dr. Howard
Strang, rh Dr. Gavin
Straw, rh Mr. Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr. Gerry
Tami, Mark
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Thomas, Mr. Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Mr. Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mr. Mark
Touhig, rh Mr. Don
Truswell, Mr. Paul
Turner, Dr. Desmond
Turner, Mr. Neil
Twigg, Derek
Ussher, Kitty
Walley, Joan
Waltho, Lynda
Ward, Claire
Wareing, Mr. Robert N.
Watts, Mr. Dave
Whitehead, Dr. Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Williams, Mrs. Betty
Wills, rh Mr. Michael
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr. David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodward, rh Mr. Shaun
Woolas, Mr. Phil
Wright, Mr. Anthony
Wright, David
Wright, Mr. Iain
Wright, Dr. Tony
Wyatt, Derek

NOES


Afriyie, Adam
Ainsworth, Mr. Peter
Amess, Mr. David
Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Arbuthnot, rh Mr. James
Atkinson, Mr. Peter
Baron, Mr. John
Barrett, John
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr. Henry
Blunt, Mr. Crispin
Boswell, Mr. Tim
Brady, Mr. Graham
Brake, Tom
Brazier, Mr. Julian
Brokenshire, James
Browning, Angela
Burns, Mr. Simon
Burrowes, Mr. David
Burstow, Mr. Paul
Burt, Alistair
Butterfill, Sir John
Cable, Dr. Vincent
Campbell, Mr. Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Mr. Alistair
Cash, Mr. William
Chope, Mr. Christopher
Clappison, Mr. James
Clark, Greg
Clegg, rh Mr. Nick
Clifton-Brown, Mr. Geoffrey
Cox, Mr. Geoffrey
Crabb, Mr. Stephen
Curry, rh Mr. David
Davey, Mr. Edward
Davies, Mr. Dai
Djanogly, Mr. Jonathan
Donaldson, rh Mr. Jeffrey M.
Duddridge, James
Duncan, Alan
Dunne, Mr. Philip
Evennett, Mr. David
Fabricant, Michael
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mr. Mark
Foster, Mr. Don
Fox, Dr. Liam
Fraser, Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Garnier, Mr. Edward
Gauke, Mr. David
Gibb, Mr. Nick
Goodwill, Mr. Robert
Green, Damian
Greening, Justine
Grieve, Mr. Dominic
Hague, rh Mr. William
Hammond, Mr. Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Hands, Mr. Greg
Harper, Mr. Mark
Hayes, Mr. John
Heald, Mr. Oliver
Hemming, John
Herbert, Nick
Hoban, Mr. Mark
Horam, Mr. John
Horwood, Martin
Howard, rh Mr. Michael
Howarth, David
Howell, John
Hunter, Mark
Hurd, Mr. Nick
Jack, rh Mr. Michael
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Jones, Mr. David
Keetch, Mr. Paul
Kennedy, rh Mr. Charles
Key, Robert
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Laing, Mrs. Eleanor
Lait, Mrs. Jacqui
Leech, Mr. John
Lewis, Dr. Julian
Lidington, Mr. David
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Mackay, rh Mr. Andrew
Maclean, rh David
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
Maude, rh Mr. Francis
May, rh Mrs. Theresa
McCrea, Dr. William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr. Patrick
Miller, Mrs. Maria
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, Mr. Andrew
Murrison, Dr. Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr. Brooks
O'Brien, Mr. Stephen
Oaten, Mr. Mark
Osborne, Mr. George
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, Mr. James
Pelling, Mr. Andrew
Randall, Mr. John
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Robathan, Mr. Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robinson, rh Mr. Peter
Russell, Bob
Scott, Mr. Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr. Keith
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, Mr. Nicholas
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Mr. Richard
Stanley, rh Sir John
Swayne, Mr. Desmond
Swire, Mr. Hugo
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Mr. Ian
Taylor, Matthew
Teather, Sarah
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Tyrie, Mr. Andrew
Vaizey, Mr. Edward
Vara, Mr. Shailesh
Villiers, Mrs. Theresa
Walker, Mr. Charles
Wallace, Mr. Ben
Watkinson, Angela

Whittingdale, Mr. John
Wiggin, Bill
Willis, Mr. Phil
Wilson, Mr. Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Winterton, Ann
Winterton, Sir Nicholas
Wright, Jeremy
Young, rh Sir George
Younger-Ross, Richard
Question accordingly agreed to.
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