 House of Commons |
Session 2009 - 10 Publications on the internet Marriage (Wales) Bill [Lords] |
The Committee consisted of the following Members:Sarah Davies, Committee
Clerk † attended the
Committee Public Bill CommitteeWednesday 24 February 2010[Mr. Mike Hancock in the Chair]Marriage (Wales) Bill [Lords]4
pm The
Chairman: May I offer anybody who wants to take their
jacket off—or any other bit of clothing—the opportunity
to do so? [Interruption.] I was just going to say that mobile
phones should be turned to silent or switched off, and the Clerk is
included in that. She has instantly responded by doing that to hers. I
welcome people to the
Committee. Clause 1Application
of this
Act Question
proposed, That the clause stand part of the
Bill. Alun
Michael (Cardiff, South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op): It is a
pleasure to sit under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr.
Hancock. You may not be Welsh, but most of the south-west would have
come within the boundaries of Wales if Owain Glyndwr had had his way,
so I think that we should consider you an honorary Welshman for the
purposes of this
Committee. I
do not think that I have to declare an interest, but I am a member of
the Church in Wales, although I was brought up in yr Eglwys
Bresbyteraidd Cymru—yr hen gorff—so there is an
ecumenical flavour to the event. Perhaps I could range a little wider
than clause 1 and say virtually everything that I need to say on the
Bill. I am delighted that there are hon. Members from all parties in
Wales here providing support for the Bill. That reflects the degree of
consensus, and even enthusiasm, that there is for it.
The
background is that on 1 October 2008 the Church of England Marriage
Measure 2008 came into force. Before then, banns of marriage could be
called in a parish church if one or both of the parties to be married
resided in that parish. If they lived in different parishes, the banns
had to be called in the parish church of each
party. The
Measure added five additional cases of “qualifying
connection” with the parish. In summary, they are as follows:
first, one of the parties was baptised or confirmed in the parish;
secondly, one of the parties had, at any time, his or her usual place
of residence in the parish for not less than six months; thirdly, one
of the parties had, at any time, habitually attended public worship in
the parish for not less than six months; fourthly, a parent of one of
the parties, during the lifetime of that party, fulfilled either of the
two previous conditions; and finally, a parent or grandparent of one of
the parties was married in the
parish. Those
connections are largely respected, especially as we have a more mobile
population than we did in the past, when most people would have been
born, brought up, married and buried in the same parish. People
establish connections with a place during a particular phase in their
life, or want to make a connection with
the parish of their parents or grandparents, as I know is the case for
members of this Committee, including my hon. Friend the Member for
Newport, East. I am sure that many other Members can think of
situations in which family connections are
valued. The
Church in Wales recognises the importance of those links, so the Bill
has the full support of the governing body and the representative body
of the Church in Wales. However, it is slightly ironic that whereas all
that was needed for the established Church of England to bring about
the changes was a Measure, we in Wales required, for the disestablished
Church, a private Member’s Bill to go through its stages in this
House.
Effectively,
the Bill will extend the measures that have been in place in the Church
of England since 2008 to the Church in Wales. That is why we are here
today. I believe that the extension of powers is widely
supported—it is certainly supported by all four parties
represented on the Committee—so I hope that clause 1 will stand
part of the Bill and that we can deal with the remaining clauses
formally. Mr.
David Jones (Clwyd, West) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve
under your chairmanship, Mr. Hancock. Like the right hon.
Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth, I declare an interest as a
member of the Church in Wales. I am under strict instructions from my
bishop to support the
Bill. This
sensible Bill brings the practices of the Church in Wales into line
with those of the Church of England. It has the Conservative
party’s full support and we wish it
Godspeed. Mark
Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): It is a pleasure to serve
under your chairmanship, Mr. Hancock, but perhaps a greater
pleasure to see the Bill’s speedy
progress. As
a member of the Church in Wales, I, like the hon. Member for Clwyd,
West, have received a letter from my bishop urging the Liberal
Democrats to support this sensible, progressive and overdue measure,
which we shall
do. Hywel
Williams (Caernarfon) (PC): As we are in confessional
mode, perhaps I should confess that I am a lapsed member of the Eglwys
Bresbyteraidd Cymru. It might seem strange for a member of Plaid Cymru
to welcome a measure from England on powers in Wales, but I certainly
do. If
you will forgive me for straying slightly off the point, Mr.
Hancock, there are other measures relating to the Church in Wales that
require consideration, such as those relating to the arrangements for
cemeteries. A look at cemeteries legislation is long overdue because,
as we all know, the condition of cemeteries in Wales needs attention,
and the same is true in
England. David
T.C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): Does the hon. Gentleman
agree that the Church has put forward its case effectively and in a
non-political way to get support from all political parties? It is a
great shame that it is less willing to step aside from narrow party
politics when it comes to an issue as important as the Welsh Assembly.
If only it could display a bit more consensus and
respect—
Hywel
Williams: I will resist the temptation to launch into the
hour-long speech that I had prepared on that issue. I support the Bill
and wish it
Godspeed. Albert
Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): Just to build on the
consensus, I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South
and Penarth for the way in which he has promoted the Bill, alongside
Lord Rowe-Beddoe in the other
place. I
put on record that this is not just about the established Church. As a
Welsh nonconformist, I think that we are right to support the Bill.
There is consensus on it in the House, and the speech in support of it
made by the hon. Member for Clwyd, West, was the best that I have heard
him make. I hope that such consensus
continues. Mrs.
Betty Williams (Conwy) (Lab): I, too, congratulate my
right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth on the way
in which he is leading the Bill through the Commons. He said that it
had cross-party support, but I know, as a deacon of the Welsh
Congregationalists, that it has cross-denominational support in
Wales. Chris
Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): May I say, as a Roman
Catholic, that I am not going to be left
out? The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Bridget
Prentice): Let me begin by congratulating my right hon.
Friend the Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth on getting the Bill to
this
stage. I
am neither Welsh nor a member of the Church in Wales, but a
west-of-Scotland Catholic living in, and representing a constituency
in, south-east London; I am not sure where that places me on the
spectrum that we have heard about today. However, I think that I can
count the Welsh as fellow Celts on this occasion, so I welcome the
Bill, although the Government are expected to remain neutral on such
measures. However, I am sure that my right hon. Friend is aware of what
my noble Friend Lord Bach said in another place, and I concur with
that.
The Bill
resolves an anomaly, especially on the border between England and
Wales, facing people who live in Wales, but come under a diocese of the
Church of England, and who therefore could be subject to opposing rules
on marriage. I am sure that those people will welcome the Bill, and
some members of the Committee might well benefit from it soon—I
understand that it will come into force on the day on which it is
enacted. I wish the Bill
well. The
Chairman: In the absence of any other Member wishing to
speak—it is probably opportune that we have a long-lapsed
Catholic in the Chair, just to give a bit of balance—and given
that a member of the Committee might soon be a beneficiary of the Bill,
I invite Mr. Michael to wind up the
debate. Alun
Michael: I merely wish to thank colleagues from all
parties for their words of support, and I think that we should move
forward
expeditiously. Question
put and agreed
to. Clause
1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the
Bill. Clauses
2 to 6 ordered to stand part of the
Bill. Alun
Michael: On a point of order, Mr. Hancock. We
have had a brief Committee stage, so perhaps the thanks can also be
brief. I
thank you, Mr. Hancock, for chairing the Committee. I also
thank the Clerk for helpfully explaining the processes of the Committee
to me, the Officers of the House, the Hansard writers, who have
perhaps had a lighter burden with this Committee than with some others,
and all Committee members who turned up to support the
measure. The
Chairman: That must be a bit of a record, because it was
not only not a point of order, but a much longer speech than any
Committee member’s. Approbation, wherever it comes from, is
gratefully received by the Chair, the Clerk and anyone else involved in
the Bill. I thank Members for their good humour and attendance, and the
pleasure of their
company. Bill
to be reported, without
amendment. 4.12
pm Committee
rose. |
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