Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
280-299)
DEPARTMENT FOR
BUSINESS, INNOVATION
AND SKILLS
26 JANUARY 2010
Q280 Mr Hoyle: It is not a personal
criticism of yourself, Minister—you are a very busy person—but
I think the people around you ought to have said, "Look,
Minister, I think we ought to be a bit more upfront", and
put this in writing to us. You sign the reports off. You are not
responsible for doing them—I understand that. I think you
need to go back and just have a word with your officials and tell
them to be a bit more upfront with the Committee. I think it would
do us all the world of good. Is there a successor body to MDUK,
or not, to come out of the ashes?
Ian Lucas: No.
Q281 Mr Hoyle: Is there a phoenix
coming out of this?
Ian Lucas: No, but I think I have
made clear already that I would like to see a phoenix rising through
the UK Automotive Council.
Q282 Mr Hoyle: That is excellent.
The strategy will be built around that for the future.
Ian Lucas: Yes, I would hope that
the level of engagement between government and the industry that
is taking place in the broader automotive sector will be reflected
in activities between the motorsport sector and the Automotive
Council as a whole.
Q283 Mr Hoyle: Quite a big chunk
of money went into MDUK. Do you think it was value for money,
a good investment, or not?
Ian Lucas: I think it made some
very positive contributions to the working relationship between
government and the motorsport industry.
Q284 Mr Hoyle: But was not good enough
to keep it in place.
Ian Lucas: I think the rest of
the sector had moved on and there are different structures in
place now which were not there five years ago.
Q285 Mr Hoyle: No problem, I am not
trying to score points, but I do think there are some messages
to go back that I am sure you will pass on and kick somebody when
you get back in the Department. Could I take you on to the health
of motorsport. It is obviously important, a big key area, the
health of the industry reliant on the health of sport. What discussions
have you had with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport
on the issues of motorsport? Of course, the big question is when
will motorsport be officially recognised as a sport?
Ian Lucas: I have met with the
Sports Minister, Gerry Sutcliffe, to discuss the motorsport industry
as a whole, particularly when there was doubt around the British
Grand Prix and its continuance and, obviously, we welcome profoundly
the importance of that as a great boost and essential to the future
of the UK industry. I work closely with Gerry across a number
of different areas, including this particular one, and I have
had discussions with him. I am not exactly clear what you mean
by the statement that motorsport is not a sport.
Mr Hoyle: It is not officially recognised
within the sporting body.
Chairman: UK Sport and Sport England
do not describe it as a sport.
Q286 Mr Hoyle: The department basically.
Ian Lucas: The peculiarity of
motorsport is that, in terms of participation, there is not a
large number of individuals who are involved in motorsport compared
to most mass participation sports, and I think that this is the
reason.
Chairman: If you have done all the training
through carting, you get thousands and thousands of people in
the UK involved in motorsport activity.
Q287 Mr Hoyle: If you look at some
of the Olympic sports, you might find there is a lot more than
synchronised swimming. I do not think that is a good example personally.
Ian Lucas: I will be interested
to know the figures, and I will try and find those out.
Q288 Mr Hoyle: Take motorbiking,
scrambling at weekends, trials bike riding, carting, autocross;
you can go on forever. It goes on and on and on. I think it is
much greater than when you first look. Would you describe the
Sports Minister as a petrol head?
Ian Lucas: As a petrol head?
Q289 Mr Hoyle: Yes. Is he a big supporter
of motorsports?
Ian Lucas: I would never describe
the Sports Minister as a petrol head.
Q290 Mr Hoyle: So we have got a weakness
in getting recognition then!
Ian Lucas: No, I do not think
that is fair. I have met with Gerry specifically to discuss motorsport.
As far as I am concerned, he is interested in most sports and
certainly he is interested in this one too.
Q291 Mr Hoyle: What about yourself?
Are you a petrol head?
Ian Lucas: I would not describe
myself as a petrol head. I watch the occasional grand prix, although
I have not visited one.
Q292 Mr Hoyle: Quite rightly, being
a Welsh MP, I am sure you are well aware the World Rally Championship
brings £10 million per year into the Welsh economy and the
Autocycle Union calculated in 2008 that Major Motorcycles generated
£100 million for the UK. It is big money, big bucks, and
that is why I think it is important. You do take that on board?
Ian Lucas: Absolutely. I think
it is very important. I said it was not a mass participation sport,
but it is certainly a mass spectator sport and anyone who has
ever been in the vicinity of a grand prix knows that.
Chairman: Lembit wants to come in.
Mr Hoyle: He is a petrol head as well.
Chairman: Yes, he is a petrol head.
Lembit Opik: I pay my environmental
offset with pride! I declare an interest in motorbikes as well.
Chairman: Get on with the question.
Q293 Lembit Opik: I am sorry,
Chairman. In 1997 the Government said it would put motorcycles
at the heart of its transport strategy. It is quite obvious that
motorcycles have got a very valuable on-road profile but the off-road
development—that means racing tracks and dirt tracks—are
the single fastest development technology with the resurgence
of the British motorcycle industry. I have not seen a major strategic
commitment to investing in cutting-edge motorcycle development
now that we are back in the market big time. Does the Government
have a particular position about economic or the technological
development of two-wheeled vehicles, not least because they provide
an environmental advantage in commuting terms?
Ian Lucas: I do not think we have
a distinct policy relating to two wheels rather than four. I think
that any of the benefits that will apply to a successful automotive
industry with four wheels should apply to those with two. I note
the enhanced environmental concerns and issues that you refer
to and certainly we will do what we can for the motorcycle industry
as well.
Q294 Lembit Opik: So it is
not a case of four wheels good; two wheels bad?
Ian Lucas: That sounds like a
sound bite. With due respect to George Orwell, no, it is not.
Q295 Chairman: Just for the record,
the Motorsports Association told us that they have 33,000 competition
licence holders from eight years of age upwards and 750 member
clubs with a combined membership in excess of 200,000, and the
MSA issues permits to the organisation for 5,000 events every
year and boasts a database of 15,000 registered volunteer marshals
and officials. It is quite a big sport.
Ian Lucas: I stand corrected then.
Lembit Opik: It is more than tennis.
Chairman: I doubt that very much. We
will move on. Cross-cutting issues now. Anthony Wright is going
to talk to you about the supply chain.
Q296 Mr Wright: Minister, industries
that really takes a big hit are those in small to medium enterprises,
and certainly within the last recession they are the first ones
to have been hit. What action has the Government taken to support
the SMEs? There are around 9,000 SMEs that support the motorsport
and aerospace industry.
Ian Lucas: I think you are absolutely
right, particularly in the automotive sector, the impact on SMEs
has been very immediate and very profound and we were very concerned
at the effect that the recession was having on them. Of course,
the introduction of policies such as the scrappage scheme has
benefited not just the prime manufacturers but also the supply
chain as a whole.
Q297 Chairman: We are not scrapping
many aeroplanes or former racing cars under the scheme. We are
talking about the aerospace and motorsport supply chains here,
not more generally: the supply chain into the sectors that are
the subject of this inquiry.
Ian Lucas: So you are talking
specifically about motorsport.
Q298 Mr Wright: Aerospace and motorsport,
yes.
Ian Lucas: I think the recession,
as far as aerospace is concerned, although it has affected the
sector as a whole, has had a more limited effect on the aerospace
sector than certainly the automotive sector. I think within the
motorsport sector the profound effects have been on the levels
of income from areas like sponsorship. Have you heard evidence
that the level of manufacturing in the supply chain for motorsport
has diminished?
Q299 Mr Wright: Yes. We have taken
evidence from both sides. The fact of the matter is that once
there was a drawback in terms of the orders book in the aerospace
and, indeed, the motorsport industries, the first companies to
be affected were, indeed, the small to medium enterprises. There
is a considerable number of them. It was quite clear that they
were not putting the orders in, and so it did have a profound
effect on much of the industry, and I would suggest that perhaps
a number of those have probably gone to the wall because they
relied really on their particular industry because it was specialised
and they had their orders at that particular time.
Ian Lucas: What we are trying
to do is to encourage supply chain companies to develop more formal
relationships with the major manufacturers, the Airbuses and GKNs
of this world, to try and have them working together over longer
periods to develop sharing of technologies and working together
on the supply chain to make sure that they have sustainable relationships
which can deal with the problems that a recession imposes.
| 
