Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
172-179)
LORD DAVIES
OF ABERSOCH
CBE, SIR ANDREW
CAHN, MR
PATRICK CRAWFORD,
MS CLAIRE
DURKIN AND
MR GARETH
THOMAS MP
14 JULY 2009
Q172 Chairman: Welcome to this second
evidence session for our inquiry into exporting out of recession.
We are very grateful to have you, Lord Davies, before us for the
first time. I think we have Lords minister left in the team before
we have got the full set, but I am very grateful to you. I am
also very grateful to you, Gareth, for coming. When Gareth Thomas
heard about this evidence session he asked if he could come, which
is a very healthy sign which we are very grateful for, thank you,
and we all appreciate that because there are some issues about
the overlap we are very anxious to explore. Having said that welcome,
could I just ask the team to introduce themselves.
Ms Durkin: Claire Durkin. I am
Head of both BIS and DfID trading development policy.
Sir Andrew Cahn: I am Andrew Cahn.
I am Chief Executive of UK Trade and Investment.
Mr Crawford: I am Patrick Crawford,
Chief Executive of the Export Credit Guarantee Department.
Q173 Chairman: Thank you. My first
question has to go to Gareth Thomas but, Lord Davies, please chip
in as well as you want to. At a previous reshuffle—not the
one we have just had but the one before—much was made of
the fact that trade policy and trade issues would now be the shared
responsibility with DfID; and until this last reshuffle Gareth
Thomas was a minister in both departments. Now you are back again
"just" being a minister in DfID and no longer shared.
Does this suggest the Government has had a rethink about the relationship
between trade policy and international development questions?
Mr Thomas: I do not think it does.
As Peter Mandelson explained to the Committee last week, I think
it reflects some of the broader issues about the nature of the
reshuffle. The Trade Policy Unit is still very much a joint department
across the two government departments. Claire Durkin in that sense
straddles both departments. Before the Trade Policy Unit was created
there were a number of ministers who had responsibility for trade
policy work. I think I have had responsibility for trade policy
in one shape or form for the six years I have been a minister.
I do not see a fundamental change. Mervyn and I have already met;
we are clear where each of us and where each department will lead
in terms of trade and trade policy questions; but I think we will
take a broadly pragmatic approach. Both of us have a longstanding
interest in development. Both of us have worked with UK business
so are conscious of the different interests in terms of trade
policy there. I do not think it represents a fundamental change
of direction.
Q174 Chairman: Speaking personally,
I still have reservations about having large numbers of ministers
in the Lords. This Committee has some sympathy for the idea the
trade promotion minister in particular should be in the Lords
for reasons we will probably explore later. One of the advantages
for me of the old arrangement was that when we had Question Time
for the Department before the House Gareth Thomas could come and
answer for trade questions on the floor of the House with an authority.
We have lost a lead trade minister now; he is just in the Lords
now. Who is going to answer the trade policy questions on the
floor of the House of Commons?
Mr Thomas: With respect, there
have been a number of departments at one stage or another on which
trade questions have come up. Treasury questions have seen trade
issues raised; business questions have seen trade questions raised;
DfID questions have seen trade questions raised; and PMQs too.
Essentially ministers from each of those departments will have
to answer trade questions at different points in time. That was
true of the old regime, just as it was true of the regime before
that.
Q175 Chairman: Up to a point. Lord
Davies, you have the over-arching responsibility here: we do not
have a quid pro quo in the Commons so that we can interrogate
these very important questions.
Lord Davies of Abersoch: I think
some of the trade issues naturally fall into the business area,
so they will be for me; and others, to do with developing markets,
fall into Gareth's. It will require us to work together as a team.
I think having two ministers is an advantage, not a disadvantage.
I think we have a common goal, which is getting Doha Agreement
and getting open markets.
Q176 Chairman: We will talk about
those as issues later on.
Mr Thomas: Chairman, if I could
just add. I think at the very first development questions I had
to appear at as a minister I was asked a fairly complex question
about the difference between the amber box, the green box and
the blue box by the then chair of the International Development
Select Committee. I raise it in a sense to demonstrate the point
that both of us have just made, that questions on trade policy
come up at a series of Question Times.
Q177 Chairman: Who will answer on
trade questions at Business, Innovation and Skills Question Time
on trade matters?
Lord Davies of Abersoch: In the
House of Lords I will, and in the House of Commons Gareth.
Q178 Chairman: He cannot; he is not
a minister in the right department.
Lord Davies of Abersoch: I am
sorry, on trade policy I thought you said.
Q179 Chairman: On trade policy. Questions
about UKTI and so on, that we ask at Business, Innovation and
Skills questions, who will answer in the Commons?
Lord Davies of Abersoch: Ian Lucas
has been covering a number of the business issues in the House
of Commons. Pat McFadden as the equivalent of Peter Mandelson
is covering all of the Department's issues in the House of Commons.
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