Examination of Witnesses (Questions 400-419)
MR VERNON
COAKER AND
JON COLES
8 JULY 2009
Q400 Chairman: You are moving
away from the evidence. Where is the evidence?
Jon Coles: I think there is very
good evidence in New York that it has challenged performance at
the bottom end very effectively, and shifted performance at the
bottom end in New York. It has been done in all sorts of other
places—in Alberta as well—on quite a different model.
It is much less controversial in some of those other places than
it is in New York. In New York, where it is a pretty new idea,
it is still controversial, although there is good reason to believe
that it has had a good effect in tackling performance at the bottom
end.
Q401 Chairman: You wrote the White
Paper, didn't you?
Jon Coles: Not physically, personally.
Q402 Chairman: No? You claimed
to have written a previous White Paper—it is in your CV.
You're not claiming this one? It says in your CV that you wrote
the 2002 White Paper.
Jon Coles: That is a factually
accurate statement, yes.
Q403 Chairman: But you did not
write this one?
Jon Coles: I wrote some bits of
it, but I didn't mainly write it, no.
Q404 Chairman: You didn't write
the famous one on diversity and choice?
Jon Coles: I didn't write that
one.
Chairman: Thank you for those opening
remarks.
Q405 Fiona Mactaggart: When faced
with a lot of research and evidence—OECD and so on—about
different accountability systems, why did the Government pick
one that was highly centralised in determining what it included,
but looked at through schools?
Jon Coles: I am not sure that
this is a more centralised system than the one we had before.
In fact, it provides information to parents on the basis of nationally
validated evidence about performance, so it is possible in this
country—in a way that it isn't in many other countries—to
compare the performance of schools in similar circumstances on
the basis of common data and evidence. The OECD says its studies
show that the single biggest driver of school performance is school-based
accountability, on the basis of individually taken school-based
assessments that are externally set and marked. That is the biggest
driver of performance, and the reporting of that is an important
factor. In other words, if you want to improve your system, testing
people on a universal basis through external tests and marking,
and reporting the results of that, is a key driver of performance
in the system. If you look at the issues that there are with our
existing system of testing, you would say, first, that it focuses
on a small range of measures and, secondly, that they are mostly
threshold indicators, which therefore apply to particular groups
of students far more strongly than to other groups. If you were
to develop that system further, you would want to get a set of
measures that captures, first, the progress of every single child
and holds schools to account for that and, secondly, the breadth
of things that schools are expected to do in the system, and not
just attainment—although that should be centrally important—but
the wider range of things that schools do as well. That is what
the report card is attempting to do—to capture very much
more sharply and precisely the progress of every child so that
for those who have achieved poorly, for example at primary school,
secondary schools are still held to account strongly for their
progress, and more strongly than is the case at the moment. For
those with particular abilities who have achieved highly, schools
should be held to account for their progress, performance and
success as well—not just that they should get grade C, but
that they should go on and get As and A*s. That's what the report
card is intending to do.
Chairman: That was a long answer, Jon.
Jon Coles: Sorry.
Q406 Fiona Mactaggart: But if
we look at the education system as a whole, what is the biggest
problem? Shockingly and depressingly, it is the problem that I
made my maiden speech about and which the chief inspector has
criticised us for: the appalling number of children still leaving
primary school not reading successfully. My view is that every
child has a human right to read, and we do not have—and
you are not proposing—an accountability mechanism that focuses
on the whole system and enabling each child to read effectively.
Indeed, with the abandonment of the national strategy, it could
be argued that it might be losing part of that.
Mr Coaker: We are not taking our
focus off numeracy and literacy in primary schools because, as
Fiona was saying—is that okay in this Committee?
Chairman: Yes.
Mr Coaker: Fiona was saying that
the importance of numeracy and literacy was absolutely fundamental.
As you know, I have said that we will be ending the contract with
respect to national strategies in 2011, but that does not mean
that we will take the focus off. We are saying that we will now
look to schools individually to develop the work that they do
on that, although we expect the literacy and numeracy hours and
work in the schools to continue. But the money around that will
be devolved to them. Our view is that we have made some progress
but, as you say, we now need to try to accelerate that and to
build on what we see as the success of the national strategies
with respect of numeracy and literacy in the way that it has gone
up, and push further to try and tackle that 20% to 25% at the
end who are still leaving primary school without the expected
level. That was why the booster classes and the extension of the
peer one-to-one into year 7 in secondary school were also included
in the White Paper to try to build on and tackle that as well.
Jon Coles: Can I just add to that
very quickly. If you look at the developments in this White Paper,
I think they have the opposite effect to the one you're suggesting.
I think that they sharpen the focus on English and maths. In accepting
the expert group report conclusion that we should have externally
marked and set tests in only English and maths, we are sharpening
the focus on those subjects. They remain absolutely essential
to the report card measures. The fact that in the White Paper
we say that every child who is behind expectations in either English
or maths in Key Stage 2—at any stage—will get one-to-one
support within the next few years to catch up in those two subjects
is the biggest sharpening of focus on getting people up to national
expectations in reading, writing and mathematics that we have
had since the introduction of the literacy and numeracy strategies.
It is a big attempt to focus attention more sharply on particularly
those children who are not meeting national expectations.
Q407 Fiona Mactaggart: Just finally,
one of the points that I made about the centrally determined accountability
mechanism is that if you speak to parents, they want schools to
be a place where their children learn and succeed. They want powerfully
for them to come out able to read and participate in society.
They also want their children to be happy. I worry about whether
we have a clear enough focus on what parents and children want
out of schools in this mechanism. Have we listened to them, or
have we just decided that we know best?
Mr Coaker: I think that that is
exactly the reason for the report card. I think that the parents
in your constituency and others will be pleased with the way in
which the report card is actually trying to capture some of the
points you make about people being happy and safe. Sometimes the
problem is that you are then accused of being soft on standards
and not caring about them.
Q408 Fiona Mactaggart: Standards
are appalling when children are miserable.
Mr Coaker: Absolutely. When young
people feel happy, safe, secure and valued for who they are, achievement
usually goes up as well. You will have seen the different categories
laid out in the report card, including pupil well-being. Parents
ask me, "Is my child going to be bullied at the school? Is
my child going to be safe there? Is my child going to be looked
after and cared for, and what is the pastoral system like?"
They ask those questions as well as looking at the academic achievement
and how well the school is doing with regard to reading and writing.
The only point I am making is to ensure that, in a sense, we are
not accused of taking our eye off the ball with regard to standards.
Standards of literacy and numeracy, as you have said, Fiona, are
absolutely fundamental, but there are other things that go alongside
that and will, quite rightly, contribute to the achievement of
a school if put right. The report card seeks to allow parents
to be able to see whether a school is good in those respects as
well as the others.
Chairman: Let us move on. Graham, you
may ask questions on the school report card.
Q409 Mr Stuart: Returning to the
point Jon made about the right to one-to-one tuition set out in
the White Paper, it reminds me of the golden days of the British
car industry and of British Leyland and its commitment to quality
control. There was a bigger number of people at the end of the
line dealing with all the ones that were not constructed properly
in the first place, which showed British Leyland's commitment
to quality control. The Japanese did not do that. They decided
to get it right the first time and have no one at the end of the
line because no car got there without being right from the beginning,
and anyone could press a button on the conveyor belt to stop the
whole process and ensure that it was done right. I find rather
worrying the idea that you are not challenging, or doing enough
to remove, inadequate teachers and are not focusing enough on
getting great teachers in classrooms. When you get a great teacher
in a classroom in the most deprived and challenging area, standards
are transformed, and if you get someone who cannot do it, you
do not. One-to-one tuition is yet another gimmick from a Government
who have come up with millions in 12 years, and it does not reassure
me that children in the worst affected areas will get the support
they need.
Mr Coaker: Nobody disagrees that
it is necessary to get a continued emphasis on standards to try
to improve everybody within the pre-school, infant and junior
phases of primary education, as you rightly point out, Graham.
However, if people do not succeed and fall behind, it is important
to have a system that supports them to catch up. A number of studies
have demonstrated that one-to-one tuition and support is a way
of doing that. My experience of talking to teachers, parents and
others is that it has actually been exceedingly well-received.
Notwithstanding the point you made, which we obviously would all
want, nobody would be in a position where they would need that.
People have been very pleased by the fact that, when people fall
behind, that additional help and support will be provided. Now
it will be not only available in years 3 to 6, but extended into
year 7.
Q410 Mr Stuart: For the record,
I personally do not find that convincing, but we will see. So,
true school accountability measures that work will root out the
poor and inadequate who are failing children—is that right?
Mr Coaker: It will improve accountability,
which improves practice and standards in schools overall and allows
parents to see what is going on. Alongside that—as a part
of it—improving what happens in schools is about improving
the quality of leadership through the head teacher, which is absolutely
fundamental, and also about improving the quality of the teaching
that goes on. One of the other things in the document, as you
will know, is the licence to teach, which is another way in which
we will try to ensure that teachers keep their professional skills
up to date. Alongside that will be continuous professional development.
As we discussed before, we want to ensure that high-quality teaching
is available to everyone in every class.
Q411 Mr Stuart: Accountability
should mean that we root out the inadequate, and that is not about
box-ticking. There will be some great teachers who will be damned
if they are going to go on a course, even though the head nags
them, and they might fail to fill the box in. When the guys come
along every five years for the licence renewal, the poor and mediocre
teacher, who is pretty good and assiduous at sucking up to anyone
at the right time, will get a tick in all the boxes. Will this
system root out the poor and the inadequate, because we have a
system in which poor and inadequate teachers are not removed from
our classrooms? Until you do that you have not got an accountability
system worth the name.
Mr Coaker: I think that the reforms
we have announced will help to ensure that we have high-quality
teaching available in every class. Accountability is about that,
but it is also about ensuring that all the other things take place
and that parents are informed. Then they will bring that pressure
to bear themselves on the school to ensure that the quality of
education there is as it should be.
Q412 Mr Stuart: So you are saying
that parents will be in a position to trigger the removal of inadequate
teachers?
Mr Coaker: What I am saying is
that parents will be able to hold a school to account. If people
have the information about a school, they will make a judgement
about that, and ultimately they will make a judgement about whether
they want their son or daughter to go there.
Jon Coles: I think you are rightly
saying that there is a big implementation issue about the licence
to teach. If it is implemented in a way which says that people
must go on a certain number of courses every year and fill in
the forms and submit a portfolio, which is convincing on paper
but says nothing about their teaching practice, it will not work.
Therefore the job of implementation is to make sure that this
is a real and effective way of making sure that those who are
effective in the classroom, whose skills are up to date and who
teach well every lesson, every day, are relicensed, and those
who fall short of those professional standards are not relicensed.
Obviously, making that system work effectively is the key to making
it an effective reform, rather than one that is about box-ticking.
We are very clear that the job is to make it about the quality
of teaching practice and not about the number of courses that
somebody has been on.
Q413 Mr Stuart: We know how many
teachers have been removed from teaching over the last number
of years—practically none. Chris Woodhead famously came
out with a figure of 15,000 inadequate teachers at one stage.
Do you have any idea of what success would look like in terms
of rooting out inadequate teachers?
Mr Coaker: I do not have a figure
that I can tell the Committee, but I accept the point that ensuring
that we have good, high-quality teaching in every classroom is
essential. I think that the licence to teach would help with respect
to that.
Q414 Mr Stuart: May I ask you
quickly about the report card. However it is constructed, the
evidence we heard from New York was that the pressure for change
was immense. When Christine Gilbert came here she sounded rather
distant from the report card work. The letter from the Secretary
of State that I received recently emphasised how close the work
is now. The prospectus from Ofsted is 55 pages, and most of it
is pretty complex and talks about statistical means and various
other things. Is it not true that the thing is going to be in
a permanent state of flux as everyone challenges the results and
says it does not fairly reflect their school?
Mr Coaker: Let us be clear that
that is the starting prospectus. We have a two-year pilot starting
this September to take forward the whole proposal. The prospectus
sets out some of the ways in which we think we can do it. That
is now a matter for consultation, debate and testing in practice
so that we can come forward in 2011 with a report card that exactly
avoids the sorts of points that Graham quite rightly makes. We
get something and there is a continuous state of flux, and that
is why we have a two-year pilot.
Q415 Mr Stuart: One last question.
Is it your vision that there would be a total score? In New York
you could get every school and find out which was top, which was
277th and which one on this year's marking was 586th. Is that
how it will be with the report card here?
Mr Coaker: The Secretary of State
said when launching the White Paper that while we are going to
consult further, he is now convinced that if parents, newspapers
and websites are to make fair, clear and easy to understand comparisons
between schools, our school report card will need to include a
single overall grade. He said that while we need to consult further,
it is his view, subject to that, that a single overall grade would
be—
Q416 Mr Stuart: I am clear about
the grading, but will we be able to see the individual scoring?
If all the schools are grade A, you will not be able to differentiate
them.
Mr Coaker: Do you mean the individual
categories that make up the overall score?
Mr Stuart: In order to come up with A—
Mr Coaker: So, the pupil progress,
pupil attainment and pupil well-being—what the scores are
for those as well?
Q417 Mr Stuart: The grand total.
Literally, you would have the ultimate league table. You would
be able to see the top school in the country possibly, and right
down to the bottom. You could see every differentiation all the
way down.
Mr Coaker: I think our intention
is to make as much information available as we can. Certainly,
if you look at the information relating to pupil attainment, you
will see that there is no difference in terms of the information
we have made available. For example, people would still be able
to compare, if they wanted to, examination results or SATs results.
But the intention is to aggregate all those different categories
to give an overall score.
Q418 Chairman: It is a fair point
that Graham makes: the press will turn those into league tables
in the same way that it has turned exam and test results into
league tables.
Mr Coaker: That may well be the
case, and it will be up to people to do that or not. But it is
important to say that the Government have responded to the exact
point that Fiona has made, which I think many of us have heard
from our constituents, about schools not just being about exam
results. While people understand that exam results and standards
are fundamental, they also want to know what a school does in
relation to other things. That is what the report card will make
available to them.
Q419 Mr Chaytor: This is a serious
point: isn't the key to the success of the report card that is
replacing the performance tables, the way in which the Government
compiles the information on the raw scores? At the moment, the
information on the raw scores is there, and any newspaper can
lift it and print it. Is it still going to be easily accessible,
or is the information on raw scores simply going to be part of
each school's report card?
Mr Coaker: It will be part of
the report card.
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