Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
160-166)
MR DAVID
ORR, MR
ANDY DOYLEND
AND MR
BRUCE MOORE
9 NOVEMBER 2009
Q160 Mr Betts: You have talked about
problems with the national standard; there might be a problem
if we do not have one that actually we will not get anything at
all, but in terms of Decent Homes, the basic standards for Decent
Homes for thermal efficiency is pretty low. Presumably your organisations,
in looking at your Decent Homes works, have actually adopted higher
standards than the Decent Homes. Can you explain what you have
done in terms of standard thermal efficiency so far? Obviously
in terms of insulation the other thing that Councillor McCann
mentioned as being a big problem is that of the efficiency of
boilers and people on low incomes. The boilers are over 20 years
old, they work but if you put a new one in you would cut people's
heating bills by half overnight. Have you done any of that sort
of work so far?
Mr Doylend: Definitely. We have
a minimum SAP rating that we have across the stock. We use SAP
as a benchmark for bringing stock up to a minimum SAP rating of
61. There is a programme of works to bring it up to that level
and we are using experiments around ground source heat pumps,
looking at different technologies but ultimately you have to look
at every property in isolation to see what is the construction,
is it an area where it cannot have gas it has to be on electric
or oil heating, what is the standard of the property generally?
You have to pick up a package of repairs and refurbishment that
meets that property's needs. One size just does not fit all.
Q161 Andrew George: In terms of energy
efficiency, it is not just about climate change it is also about
the affordability. Even if you cannot afford to undertake the
kinds of improvements you are talking about, even just getting
something like smart meters which actually helps the tenant to
try to drive down their own costs, even if you cannot do it for
them surely that would help.
Mr Doylend: We also invest in
education, that is probably the right way of putting it. Some
people who are nominated in, it is their first home, they have
no experience of getting running costs down and we invest quite
a lot of money through the Sustainable Communities Investments
to educate people on how they can best run their homes and minimise
the cost.
Q162 Chair: Can we get onto some
questions about the Tenants Services Authority which we have not
asked the others. How should the TSA regulate the Decent Homes
standards after 2010 and how positive do you feel about the steps
it has taken already since its establishment?
Mr Orr: The truth of the matter
here is that this is one of the three areas where the TSA is subject
to the direction of government. It is actually quite difficult
at this stage to know how in future a regulator will respond to
the direction of government. We are in the middle of a debate
with the Tenants Services Authority at the moment about crafting
the standards framework. The formal consultation on that does
not begin until the end of this week or the beginning of next
week so there is as yet no consultation document in the public
domain, although privately we have been involved in a number of
conversations with the TSA about how that standards framework
might develop. I have to say that I am reasonably encouraged by
what seems to me to be a fairly rational approach being taken
by the TSA which is about saying absolutely have a minimum standard
but there needs to be a real and clear determination at a local
level for landlords and their tenants to be working together to
develop local standards.
Q163 Chair: Are the TSA consulting
with individual housing associations or with the overall organisations?
Mr Orr: Their consultations which
will be launched at the end of this week or the beginning of next
week will be a wide consultation that will involve all social
housing providers as well as bodies like the Federation.
Q164 Chair: Up until now?
Mr Orr: It has been a fairly wide
pre-consultation conversation.
Mr Moore: Hanover is one of 36
pilots which are about the approach to regulation and our pilot
is about devolved decision making and how that works in a regulatory
environment. As David said, it is early days at the moment; we
are hoping that the TSA will endorse relevant, proportionate,
focussed regulation but we are putting our submissions in, showing
our residents' views and monitoring the reactions to that so that
is us feeding into that process.
Q165 Chair: I understand that one
of their proposed national standards is quality of home; what
does it mean?
Mr Orr: I suspect it means the
Decent Homes standard, at least for the time being.
Mr Moore: I think the potential
is for landlords asking their tenants to say what is it they want
and what is it you are unhappy about and putting measures in above
a basic minimum standard to address those criteria and actually
the issue would be then if a landlord had not asked their residents
that question, that is when the regulation would come in. Rather
than saying what it should be, it should be: have you asked and
are you responding to what you have had fed back to you. That
is Hanover's approach and others are adopting it.
Q166 Chair: Mr Doylend, is that your
understanding?
Mr Doylend: I totally agree, yes.
Chair: I think we will draw this session
to an end. Thank you very much indeed.
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