Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
1420-1439)
MR TOM
CRONE AND
MR COLIN
MYLER
21 JULY 2009
Q1420 Philip Davies: Would you consider
that sum of money to be a reasonable sum of money for looking
up electoral rolls?
Mr Myler: I think we need to get
on record it was a little bit more than just electoral rolls,
because Mr Crone has just reminded me actually what he did. He
gathered facts for stories; used to analyse the extent of proof
before publication; he did credit status checks; he did Land Registry
checks; he did directorship searches; analysis of businesses and
individuals; he would trace individuals from virtually no biographical
details; date of birth searches; electoral roll, as we have talked
about; checks through data bases; county court searches; analysis
of court records; surveillance—sometimes he would be involved
in that specialist kind of work; he gave advice on crime issues;
he had obviously a vast professional football knowledge; as a
former footballer he would be involved and was involved in all
aspects of the game; from what I understand he would come up with
other story ideas and tips on other stories, some that worked
and some that did not; he had a vast database of contact numbers
in the sport and show business world, which was obviously useful
for reporters who did not have those contacts; he used to do analysis
of documents and handwriting checks. If you went onto the open
market his rate per hour probably averaged less than £50
which, even then, is felt commercially a very good rate.
Q1421 Philip Davies: You would have
thought that paying £100,000 plus bonuses, for what you have
just read out—I do not know, I am not involved—I am
just asking whether you would as an editor question that; or do
you think that would be a reasonable sum?
Mr Myler: I think the element
of "plus bonuses" is a separate issue. The contract
or the piece of paper that he received under the name of Paul
Williams is very common, very common practice in newspapers and
indeed broadcasting, I would say.
Mr Crone: Can I just clarify this
because we keep hearing about this word "bonus" and
that stems, I think, from Nick Davies's first report. It is clearly
referring to that holding contract of February 5, 2005. That is
not a bonus; that is a completely separate, independent offering
of a story by Mulcaire. In the same way as anyone rings up the
News of the World or comes into the News of the World
and says, "I've got a great story for you". Let me tell
you how this happens though because it is quite important and
will lead to understanding that document. They say, "I've
got a great story for you", and we say, "What is it?"
and they say, "I'm not telling you `cause if I tell you you'll
publish it and I won't get paid". So we give them that contract,
a holding contract, which says we cannot publish anything unless
we agree a financial deal first; and the deal on this case will
not be less than £7,000. That is what that is; it is not
a bonus; it has got no connection whatsoever to the retainer agreement.
Mr Myler: If the story does not
work out he is not paid.
Q1422 Philip Davies: Just one final
question to Mr Crone if I might, Chairman. Obviously, given your
role at News International, you must look over stories before
they go then to the press to make sure that they are not libellous
or going to end up with News International in trouble?
Mr Crone: It is an old-fashioned
principle but we think it works—not always.
Q1423 Philip Davies: Absolutely.
The question I have is: at any point when that has happened, and
stories have been put in front of you, were you ever suspicious
at any stage that any story that was being put in front of you
to look at before it went to print had to have been or the likelihood
is that it would have been obtained through any kind of illegal
activity?
Mr Crone: No. It is a very broad
question. If you are talking about phone hacking—absolutely
not: never, ever.
Q1424 Philip Davies: What about any
other illegal activity?
Mr Crone: I am trying to think
of what it might be. No, I do not think so, not really.
Q1425 Philip Davies: "Not really"?
Mr Crone: Journalists trespass
and journalists do other things; but criminal activity, no.
Q1426 Adam Price: Mr Myler, you said
you have never met Mr Mulcaire. Have you met Clive Goodman since
his conviction at all?
Mr Myler: Only when I conducted
the appeal with our Human Resources Director.
Q1427 Adam Price: You mentioned,
Mr Crone, that payment was made to Mr Mulcaire. Was there a non-disclosure
agreement attached as a condition to that payment?
Mr Crone: I do not know. It was
not something I was involved in.
Q1428 Adam Price: Mr Kuttner will
probably be aware of it?
Mr Crone: I do not know.
Q1429 Adam Price: The issue of the
payment made to Mr Taylor, the sum that has been quoted was nearly
seven times the amount paid to Mr Mosley. How do you account for
the size of payment made?
Mr Myler: Mr Crone perhaps can
give you the legal answer to that. First of all, it is not comparable.
In any negotiation one party wants one thing and another party
wants another. That is exactly what happened in the Taylor case:
a settlement was reached. The case with Mr Mosley obviously was
through the courts and that was an award made by a judge.
Q1430 Adam Price: Some people have
said that the fact you agreed to such a large sum suggests that
you were concerned about some of the information which would leak
out as a result of that case?
Mr Myler: It was actually quite
simple: our outside lawyers' advice, who had taken counsel's advice
was very strongly that we had to settle, and should settle. That
advice was shared internally by our internal lawyers and I agreed.
It really was a straightforward as that.
Q1431 Adam Price: Were there other
bonus payments you were aware of that were offered to Mr Mulcaire?
Mr Crone: There were no bonus
payments to Mr Mulcaire at all, as far as I am aware.
Q1432 Adam Price: Contracts as bonuses.
Mr Crone: Could I invite your
attention to the repeated use of "bonus". Not that I
am aware of, no.
Q1433 Adam Price: Neville Thurlbeck,
in the original inquiry was he interviewed by you or by the firm
of solicitors that you engaged?
Mr Crone: No. You mean after the
arrests?
Q1434 Adam Price: Yes.
Mr Crone: No. I do not know whether
he was spoken to by the solicitors. I am sorry, I cannot answer
that question.
Q1435 Adam Price: Did not his byline
appear on at least one story in relation to the Royals which could
only have come from phone hacking?
Mr Crone: Not that I am aware
of, no. I do not think there were any stories actually; that was
the whole thing about Mr Goodman's mitigation—nothing had
ever been published. I think there may be one story about Prince
William, which was a Goodman story.
Q1436 Adam Price: There was a story
in the paper on 9 April 2006 "Chelsy tears a strip off Harry",
which has verbatim a message from Prince William left on Prince
Harry's phone. It could only have come from phone hacking. The
by-line is Clive Goodman and Neville Thurlbeck.
Mr Crone: I am sorry, I was not
aware of that.
Q1437 Adam Price: You were not aware
of that?
Mr Crone: I certainly cannot remember
it, put it that way.
Q1438 Adam Price: You did not see
the story before it went to press? You have not reviewed the story
as part of your investigation? Did you not go through all the
Royal stories?
Mr Crone: There are over 100 pages
in the News of the World each week; I am there each week;
I have been there each week for nearly 25 years; I do not remember.
It is a little story about the Royal Family.
Q1439 Adam Price: It was on page
7 and it actually had in big bold red letters "Exclusive".
Mr Crone: I have absolutely no
recollection whatsoever about that story.
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