Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
1440-1459)
MR TOM
CRONE AND
MR COLIN
MYLER
21 JULY 2009
Q1440 Adam Price: You have no recollection.
Mr Myler: I remember quite a few
big, big scoops, like Jeffrey Archer, going way back, and things
like that—David Beckham and so forth. I remember the stories
we get sued on, generally; I do not remember page 7 leads, ever.
Q1441 Adam Price: The story says:
"Yesterday the repentant Prince, Prince Harry, took an ear-bashing
`phone call as news broke". It goes on to repeat the message
left, it says, by Prince William. The whole basis of that story
is a `phone message left on the `phone of one of the Royals.
Mr Crone: That is what you are
telling me now, but I am sorry I just do not remember.
Q1442 Adam Price: Are you aware now
whether that story was based upon the hacking into the `phone
of the Prince?
Mr Crone: No, I am not aware of
it. I cannot answer that question. It may well have been one of
the issues that Clive Goodman was accused of. I seem to remember
in court that his whole mitigation was that nothing came out of
this; there was never anything published. Check the court transcript.
His counsel was standing up and saying: "He may have been
doing these things but it was pretty futile because nothing was
ever published". The point he was trying to make was that
you get hold of someone's information but if you do not ever release
it you have not abused them quite as much as if you had released
it. Just check the court transcript; Mr Sanders was his name.
Q1443 Adam Price: The Princes, of
course, were not actually the subject of the court case itself,
but are you saying that you are not aware at all whether their
`phones were hacked?
Mr Crone: Are you saying (I obviously
read it once) that the information was left on the voicemail of
either Prince Harry or Prince William?
Q1444 Adam Price: That is what the
story says.
Mr Crone: They were not charged
with that; they were charged with accessing three members of the
Royal household.
Q1445 Adam Price: They were not charged
with that; what I am asking you is whether your reporter actually
hacked into the `phones of the Princes?
Mr Crone: Well—
Q1446 Adam Price: Themselves; not
their staff.
Mr Crone: I would say no and I
would say for absolute fact there is no evidence of that whatsoever,
and the prosecution did not have anything to do with accessing
the Princes' voicemails; it was to do with accessing household
members.
Q1447 Adam Price: You mentioned the
contract between Greg Miskiw and Paul Williams. If that was irrelevant
to `phone hacking, which was I think your suggestion, why was
it mentioned by prosecuting counsel during the case?
Mr Crone: I cannot remember exactly;
I just remember there was a reference to it.
Q1448 Adam Price: I remember. Actually,
what he said was: "It really demonstrated the relationship
between the defendant, Glenn Mulcaire, and the newspaper."
Mr Crone: That is right, because
it was on News of the World headed notepaper, yes, the
document. So that is probably why it was mentioned; because it
was a connection between the News of the World and Glenn
Mulcaire beyond the retainer. As I have tried to explain, that
was separate and above the retainer; it was something that he
came to Greg Miskiw with a piece of story information, and was
trying to sell it quite separately. It was not part of his normal
relationship with the newspaper. That is what that proves, actually.
Q1449 Adam Price: Can I ask, finally:
apart from Clive Goodman and Andy Coulson, has anyone else been
reprimanded, disciplined or demoted in any way as a result of
this entire affair at News of the World?
Mr Myler: The affair with Mulcaire
and Goodman?
Adam Price: `Phone hacking.
Paul Farrelly: The Gordon Taylor case
was settled at great expense.
Q1450 Adam Price: Has anyone been
disciplined or reprimanded in relation to this entire issue of
`phone hacking from News of the World? Apart from the two—
Mr Myler: No. In relation to Gordon
Taylor, Mr Farrelly was saying because of the issue of settlement;
the settlement was made based on legal advice at the highest level.
Q1451 Adam Price: There are no disciplinary
proceedings against Neville Thurlbeck as a result of this email?
Mr Myler: No. No, there is no
evidence. Mr Thurlbeck says he has no recollection of receiving
it. There is no IT evidence to support that he did.
Q1452 Adam Price: We often talk about
a smoking gun. If there is one in this case this is it, surely?
It is amazing, is it not? We hear last night that the police had
this email but they did not hand it over to the Crown Prosecution
Service; you did not see it until April 2008 and, apparently,
you went through 2,500 separates. We are told that the sender
of the email does not remember sending it, and the recipient does
not remember receiving it. It is, quite frankly, completely implausible.
Mr Crone: Who do you mean by the
"recipient"?
Q1453 Adam Price: This is the transcript
for Neville, the intended recipient of the transcript.
Mr Crone: The recipient was Mulcaire,
very clearly.
Q1454 Adam Price: The intended recipient
for the transcript, it says, is Neville. Are you saying that this
is a forgery?
Mr Crone: No. I wish it was.
Q1455 Adam Price: You accept this
email was actually sent.
Mr Myler: Yes. There is no suggestion
that it is a forgery, from what we can establish. We have just
had two months of frenzied reporting about MPs' expenses. Does
it follow that because you sit next to an MP who is one of the
most guilty parties of huge excesses that you are guilty too?
That you are a crook? If you share a Commons office with somebody
who breaks the law, is it right that people think that you are
party to it? That is, essentially, what is happening with the
News of the World over something that happened three years
ago. Is that fair? Is that reasonable?
Q1456 Adam Price: With due respect,
we are given documentary evidence here, are we not, which names
your chief reporter?
Mr Myler: That was not, by the
way, redacted, like MPs' expenses were.
Philip Davies: It was, actually.
Q1457 Adam Price: It was in relation
to the junior reporter in terms of publication.
Mr Myler: In the legal process
it was not.
Mr Crone: It was redacted by the
Government.
Mr Myler: I am sorry, I apologise.
That was, yes.
Chairman: Can I appeal to Members to
be relatively brief from now on.
Q1458 Janet Anderson: Mr Crone, as
Legal Adviser to the News of the World, and when you are
asked to make a judgment about a particular story, I imagine you
would want to know the background and source of a controversial
story. Is that right?
Mr Crone: Yes. I need to know
the evidence in support.
Q1459 Janet Anderson: So when making
those judgments have you ever listened to taped telephone conversations
or messages left on other people's telephones?
Mr Crone: I have listened to many,
many taped conversations—telephone conversations.
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