Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
1480-1499)
MR TOM
CRONE AND
MR COLIN
MYLER
21 JULY 2009
Q1480 Mr Hall: You have gone through
the whole of those cash payments and payments in other ways and
you are absolutely clear in your evidence to the Committee that
that investigation into the cash payments made by the newspaper
also confirmed that this is an isolated incident restricted to
Goodman and Mulcaire?
Mr Myler: Which period are you
talking about?
Q1481 Mr Hall: The period before
we actually had the prosecution. Up until then this is a practice
that is taking place. I do not know if Mulcaire was the only source
for the newspaper to go to—
Mr Myler: He would not have been
the only source, but, again, let us be clear: there was nothing
wrong with the Mulcaire contract. Lawyers, banks—one of
the most respected legal firms in the land—used people like
Glenn Mulcaire to gather information. There was nothing wrong
with that contract.
Q1482 Mr Hall: You are quite confident
that that contract would now still apply—the terms of that
contract with Mulcaire would meet your strict protocol?
Mr Myler: Yes, if it did, it would,
yes, but it would have to. But it did then.
Q1483 Mr Hall: You are saying in
evidence to the Committee that there were no payments made to
anybody within the organisation or outside the organisation that
would pay for illegal activities like `phone tapping and listening
to people's voicemails.
Mr Myler: Absolutely not.
Q1484 Mr Hall: Your examination of
the financial evidence shows that to be correct?
Mr Myler: I have not come across
any evidence that would support payments being made for illegality—at
any level.
Q1485 Mr Hall: You have looked for
that specifically, have you?
Mr Myler: I have put in place
absolutely stringent rules about how we conduct our business.
Q1486 Mr Hall: This is for now; I
am talking about before—
Mr Myler: How far back do we have
to go, Mr Hall?
Q1487 Mr Hall: Just to the time when
this story emerged would be helpful.
Mr Myler: All I can say is this:
I have never worked or been associated with a newspaper that has
been so forensically examined both internally, by outside solicitors,
by the police, by the Crown Prosecution Service and by the Director
of Public Prosecutions. If it comes down to this Committee and
others not being satisfied by those inquiries, I really do not
know what more I can say.
Q1488 Mr Hall: Just one final question:
the News of the World used Mulcaire. They had him on a
retainer, I understand, of £100,000 and he was paid additional
money for specific stories that he would like to sell to the newspaper.
Mr Myler: If they worked.
Q1489 Mr Hall: Did the News of
the World employ any other organisations on the same kind
of work?
Mr Myler: I do not think so.
Mr Crone: I am not aware if they
did, but Mr Kuttner may be able to help you.
Mr Myler: I think it was felt
that given the contract that Mr Mulcaire was on and he was working
24/7, I think it was felt that he could cover most of the—
Q1490 Mr Hall: Would he be the first
point of contact for reporters that wanted to either fact-check
a story or follow up a lead?
Mr Myler: I do not know how it
operated then, but I think depending on the level of experience
of a journalist, if you are just in Fleet Street and you are trying
to find your way round the block maybe you would have called in
other, older more experienced people, perhaps, not as much, but
that is normally the rule of thumb.
Q1491 Mr Hall: Would a journalist
have to ask the editor's permission to go to Mulcaire?
Mr Myler: I do not believe so,
no.
Q1492 Alan Keen: Just a few quick
questions. I am trying to get a picture of the management structure.
Could you explain, Mr Crone, for instance, are you part of the
management or do you sit there waiting till somebody asks your
advice?
Mr Crone: I am in the legal department,
so that sits there outside the editorial process. This is the
editorial legal department. My job is to look after the legal
interests of the paper which consists of pre-publication checking
to avoid problems and then post-publication, clearing up all the
problems that you did not avoid in the first place. So it is a
mutually perpetuating role. The editor is the head of editorial,
the deputy editor is the number two and the managing editor would
be in charge, I think, of budgets and, also, I think, primarily,
on staff matters—so internal disciplinary matters and that
sort of thing would probably go across his desk and HR's desk.
Other than that, you have the departments within the newspaper
which consist broadly of news, sport and features. Mr Myler can
probably answer this better than I can, but that is it.
Q1493 Alan Keen: So it is the managing
editor who really sets the budget.
Mr Crone: No, the budget would
be set by News International, the holding company.
Q1494 Alan Keen: Do you have any
contact formally or informally with the structure above the News
of the World, for instance? If you see something which you
feel is not right from a legal, moral point of view, have you
any formal reporting upwards?
Mr Crone: I could, yes. I would
report, primarily, for News of the World matters, to the
editor of the News of the World, but if there are important
issues that I think the executive chairman needs to know about
then I would email or ring or speak to the executive chairman.
Q1495 Alan Keen: The other way round:
he would ask you on a regular basis his—
Mr Crone: No, not regular, because
those issues do not arise very often. So, no, he would not come
to me very often—or she.
Q1496 Alan Keen: What was your background
before you came to journalism?
Mr Crone: I practised at the Bar
from 1975-1980, I worked at the Mirror Group from 1980-1985 and
I have worked here since.
Q1497 Alan Keen: When you came into
the newspaper world, were you surprised by the looseness? All
my experience before I came here was in management in the engineering
industry, where if somebody said: "Make the cheque out not
to me as normal but to Fred Smith this time", that would
be the end of that relationship for ever more. Were you shocked
at some of the looseness of—
Mr Crone: No, because I do not
have a lot to do with payments, to be perfectly honest. I do remember
when I first worked at the Mirror Group thinking: "They are
paying the most incredible sums of money to put across two pages
and I am being paid a bit less to work for a year", and I
just thought the finances were just amazing.
Q1498 Alan Keen: Could I ask Mr Myler:
you said you made quite firm changes to the management of the
people who worked for you, and you cut out the cash payments to
almost 90%. What other changes did you make as far as the authorisation
for cheques and for other payments other than cash? Did you have
the final say?
Mr Myler: Yes.
Q1499 Alan Keen: Before you made
these changes, how did it work before you came? Why did you feel
you had to make the changes?
Mr Myler: I think we have to remember
that there was a system in place before. It was not like the Wild
West; it was not a matter of somebody coming up and giving cash
all the time. I just felt that we could strengthen up where we
were before, which is what we did. Equally, I felt that personal
contracts, particularly relating to the PCC Code, could and were
strengthened, which meant that if you are a reporter and you are
going out knocking on somebody's door, to turn around and say:
"The news editor was putting me under pressure to get the
story so I could do want I wanted and then blame the news editor
for doing that" was no longer acceptable; it was about personal
accountability. As a result of that, that clause relating to employment
and breaking the PCC Code was strengthened, which meant that if
you broke it you could be fired.
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