Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
1720-1739)
MR ANDY
COULSON AND
MR STUART
KUTTNER
21 JULY 2009
Q1720 Tom Watson: And did it surprise
you that Mulcaire had worked for the company since the late 1990s
when you were Deputy Editor and Rebekah Wade was Editor?
Mr Coulson: No, I do not remember
when I first learned about Nine Consultancy. Remember that I did
not know the name Glenn Mulcaire. All I knew was Nine Consultancy.
I cannot recall precisely when I first learned of it. I imagine
that I saw it probably on an annual budget round. It would have
been listed along with a whole range of other things.
Q1721 Tom Watson: He had a number
of companies before Nine Consultancy that failed to file accounts
at Companies House—four or five I think before Nine Consultancy—so
I am assuming that if he was working for News International in
the late 1990s you would have made payments to all the other companies.
Does that ring any bells with you?
Mr Coulson: No and I do not have
any recollection of the other companies either. I know what I
have read. I do not have any reason to doubt it but I never had
any involvement in that way with Nine Consultancy or any other
Mulcaire company.
Q1722 Tom Watson: So as Editor as
soon as you hear that an employee and a contractor had been arrested
you tried to scope out the relationship and the depth of their
involvement in this. Even after your enquiries you were not aware
of the other companies that Mulcaire was a director of and you
cannot remember when he first started working for the company?
Mr Coulson: I am afraid not, no.
Q1723 Tom Watson: Right, on the actual
case, is it your belief that the Princes' phones were bugged or
blagged or hacked?
Mr Coulson: No, I only know what
I have read, the same as you guys. As I understand it, there were
members of the Household who had their phone messages intercepted.
Q1724 Tom Watson: Did you ask Goodman
or Mulcaire or any staff members whether they thought that the
Princes' phones were hacked or not?
Mr Coulson: I never had an e-mail
exchange let alone a conversation with Glenn Mulcaire.
Q1725 Tom Watson: What about the
staff members on the paper during your enquiries?
Mr Coulson: We carried out an
investigation obviously. Remember that the investigation was until
November, from memory, centred only around the Royal Household,
so, yes, we would have asked questions about that but as to the
involvement of other celebrities and well-known people that was
not known about until much later in the legal process.
Q1726 Tom Watson: When you found
out that Greg Miskiw had encouraged Mulcaire to set up the Nine
Consultancy, what did you think?
Mr Coulson: Sorry, could you ask
that again.
Q1727 Tom Watson: When had Greg Miskiw
encouraged Mulcaire to form a consultancy, Nine Consultancy?
Mr Coulson: Did he encourage them
to form a consultancy?
Q1728 Tom Watson: According to the
reports that we have both read.
Mr Coulson: I did not pick up
on that.
Q1729 Tom Watson: Would it be unusual
for a journalist based in Manchester to give that advice to a
client?
Mr Coulson: I do not know the
detail of the relationship between Greg and Nine Consultancy,
I do not know.
Q1730 Tom Watson: But you did work
with Greg Miskiw, you were his boss.
Mr Coulson: I did for a while
although Greg under my editorship changed jobs and, as I say,
ended up in Manchester before he left the paper.
Q1731 Tom Watson: So you had moved
him out to Manchester?
Mr Coulson: "Moved him out"
is a harsh, harsh way of describing it, but I think that Greg
had family in Manchester, I think I am right in saying, or certainly
up that way, and it suited him and us for him to work from Manchester.
Q1732 Tom Watson: Has Greg Miskiw
got a financial relationship with the company, Mr Kuttner?
Mr Kuttner: No, not so far as
I am aware. I wonder if I could help you with perhaps just elaborating—
Q1733 Tom Watson: I will come back
to you if that is okay.
Mr Kuttner: If I may, it is in
respect of a question you just asked Mr Coulson vis-a"-vis
Greg Miskiw and Mulcaire. I do not know if this helps at all but
my recollection is that we had had for some time I think, if you
like, an ad hoc relationship with Mulcaire and I think it was
Greg Miskiw who probably said, "Look, there is a better way
of doing this, as an all-in deal," and out of that because
of the amount of enquiries and work that Mulcaire was doing I
think the contract came as a result of Miskiw's suggestion.
Q1734 Tom Watson: So in advance of
the company Nine Consultancy you were making direct payments to
Glenn Mulcaire?
Mr Kuttner: I cannot be sure.
I am going back a long way. What I have in my mind is that possibly
the all-in contract came out.
Q1735 Tom Watson: Mr Crone has committed
to giving us chapter and verse on the companies that you had a
relationship with and the payments both before he was convicted
and after so that would clear it up.
Mr Kuttner: Okay.
Q1736 Tom Watson: Just one last round
of questioning. You knew that you were going to resign before
sentencing but on the day of sentencing you resigned from the
paper.
Mr Coulson: I actually resigned
two weeks before I announced it.
Q1737 Tom Watson: Two weeks before.
And did you get a redundancy payment for that?
Mr Coulson: I got what was contractually
due to me. Obviously I did not work my notice so I received what
was contractually due.
Q1738 Tom Watson: Then you were six
months out of work.
Mr Coulson: About five months.
Q1739 Tom Watson: And then you went
work directly for the Conservative Party.
Mr Coulson: That is right.
| 
