Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
1740-1759)
MR ANDY
COULSON AND
MR STUART
KUTTNER
21 JULY 2009
Q1740 Tom Watson: And you have not
got any secondary income other than that have you?
Mr Coulson: No.
Q1741 Tom Watson: So you did not
do any work with PR firms in the meantime?
Mr Coulson: No, I had a brief
conversation with an advertising agency about being a consultant
but I never received any money from them.
Q1742 Tom Watson: So your sole income
was News International and then your sole income was the Conservative
Party?.
Mr Coulson: Yes.
Tom Watson: That is great, thank you.
Q1743 Mr Sanders: Mr Kuttner, when
you announced that you would not be continuing as Managing Editor,
did you discuss this with senior management or with the paper's
lawyers or both?
Mr Kuttner: In fact, it was not
I who announced it but when the announcement was made—
Q1744 Mr Sanders: Prior to your announcing.
Mr Kuttner: Sorry, I did not mean
to be pedantic.
Q1745 Mr Sanders: I said that you
announced but what I mean is prior to you announcing that you
would not be continuing as Managing Editor, did you discuss this
with senior management or the paper's lawyers or both?
Mr Kuttner: Prior to the announcement?
Q1746 Mr Sanders: Yes, that is what
I said.
Mr Kuttner: The answer is yes
there were weeks, perhaps months, of detailed discussion as to
a stepping aside from the role of Managing Editor and a significant
continuing role with the newspaper.
Q1747 Mr Sanders: And what was their
advice?
Mr Kuttner: Advice in what respect,
sir?
Q1748 Mr Sanders: You discussed with
them that you did not wish to continue as Managing Editor. Their
response was what? "Okay, goodbye," or, "We don't
want you to go"?
Mr Kuttner: No, it was not quite
like that. There were discussions within the company which went
on for some while and out of that came the decision that I would
step aside after a very long term as Managing Editor and the opportunity,
if I wished to take it, to continue to represent the newspaper
in other respects.
Q1749 Mr Sanders: Can I ask a similar
question of Andy Coulson. Did you discuss your resignation with
senior management or the paper's lawyers or both?
Mr Coulson: I do not remember
having a conversation with the lawyers but I had a conversation
with Les Hinton two weeks before I actually left the paper and
I sat down and explained my logic and I explained why I felt the
need to resign.
Q1750 Mr Sanders: And what was his
reaction?
Mr Coulson: I would add that it
was entirely at my instigation. There was never any pressure on
me to resign.
Q1751 Mr Sanders: What was his advice?
Mr Coulson: His advice?
Q1752 Mr Sanders: Or reaction.
Mr Coulson: He accepted my decision.
Q1753 Mr Sanders: Just that? Did
you not discuss other options?
Mr Coulson: No, I was very clear
what I wanted to do. I thought about it over Christmas. I had
been thinking about it for some time. I talked about it with my
wife and I was very clear when I went into the meeting that I
would resign and I laid it out very clearly.
Q1754 Mr Sanders: Did your contract
of employment at that time include some sort of confidentiality
clause preceding the events over which you resigned?
Mr Coulson: I correct myself,
I must have had conversations with the lawyers about my departure.
That would have been normal corporate practice. I know that I
had some restrictive covenants put on me when I left so I was
not able for example to go and work in a senior position at another
newspaper and I was not able to take up another significant journalistic
job when I left them.
Q1755 Mr Sanders: Was that something
that was already in your contract or was that something that came
out later?
Mr Coulson: That would have been
subsequent to my resignation.
Q1756 Mr Sanders: Okay. And was there
any change in the remuneration that you then received when you
worked out your contract? You said that you had received normal
payment for working within your contract.
Mr Coulson: I received what was
contractually due to me because I did not work my notice period.
I suppose technically I worked two weeks of notice.
Q1757 Mr Sanders: You did not receive
anything in addition to what you would have received in normal
salary?
Mr Coulson: My departure was,
in my view, entirely proper. The amount I received was an entirely
proper amount. I do not believe that there was anything improper
about it, if that is what lies behind the question.
Q1758 Mr Sanders: I am not suggesting
there was anything improper. It is just you used the phrase it
was contractual. That was part of your original contract and not
part of any subsequent conversation?
Mr Coulson: My departure was agreed
and, as I say, the significant aspect to it was that I had restrictive
covenants placed on me so I was unable effectively to work, at
least in any significant way, as a journalist.
Q1759 Mr Sanders: Mr Kuttner, when
you announced that you would not be continuing as Managing Editor,
was that actually your choice; did you really want to stop?
Mr Kuttner: Was it my choice?
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