Examination of Witnesses (Question Numbers
93-99)
SIR ROBIN
WALES, MR
JULES PIPE
CBE AND MR
ROGER TAYLOR
17 MARCH 2010
Q93 Chair: Good morning. Can I welcome
you to the further session of the Committee's inquiry into the
Olympic Legacy. I would like to welcome Sir Robin Wales, the Mayor
of Newham, Jules Pipe, the Mayor of Hackney and Roger Taylor,
Director of the Host Boroughs Unit. Can I perhaps start off by
asking you about your Strategic Regeneration Framework (SRP),
which you have published, which seems extremely ambitious. Could
you tell us what progress you are making towards achievement of
the targets you have set?
Sir Robin Wales:
That is actually quite interesting. This morning we were signing
a Multi Area Agreement (MAA), which I think is relatively unique
as all five boroughs were signing with Government and the Mayor
of London—he was not there but he is signing it. It is perhaps
the biggest legacy point from the Olympics and we have taken the
opportunity of the inspiration, the focus on the Olympics, the
focus on the area, and the promises, of course, that were in the
bid document. There were two things that the bid document said:
that we will do sport for young people and we will transform the
East End of London. For a century the East End of London has been
the poor part of London; it has taken the refuse of London, the
noxious industries, all sorts of things. Our population lives
less long than elsewhere; child poverty is greater; academic achievement
is lower; employment is less. So we have said that if we really
meant what we said in the bid document, which is that we will
transform the East End, then over the next 20 years—because
it is not a two-year programme, it has to be seen as an ongoing
programme—we will bend public policy and public resources
to make a difference and transform the East End in order to make
it the same as the rest of London. That is not only morally the
right thing to do, it is also the cheapest thing to do because
at the moment we are the recipients of huge amounts of public
funds and it does not do anything; we just continue on in the
same way we have for a century. There is a map of the 1880s and
it has not changed and we have to try to do something about that.
Yes, it is very ambitious. I guess it comes down to, do you think
that Government by its actions both nationally, regionally and
locally can transform an area and change people's lives and opportunities.
That seems to us to be the right thing to do. It is also what
we promised in the bid document.
Mr Taylor: If I could just add
something more particular to that. I think it is important to
recognise that when you ask what progress have we made towards
it, we are here today able to say that we have significant support
from the London Mayor and from central government and the nature
of that support is that we are at the present time conducting
what you could call an audit to explore how far policy in relevant
home Government departments and in the GLA is being bent towards
achieving or supporting us in the achievement of our objectives.
So that is a really tangible piece of progress. When Sir Robin
talks about the MAA, it is probably important just to underline
the point that at the centre of the MAA is the issue of how we
regroup in East London to deal with circumstances of worklessness,
employment and skills training, which is right at the heart of
this issue. We are making very significant progress now with Jobcentre
Plus and with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and the
successors to the Learning and Skills Council and to the London
Development Agency in getting to an integrated approach to investment
in employment and skills in our area. So, for two years we are
making some progress.
Q94 Chair: The targets you have set,
relating to things like life expectancy, crime rates and educational
achievement are quite a long way removed from the Olympics. How
do you see the Olympics is going to affect those kinds of things?
Sir Robin Wales: It has got people
to pay attention. It has taken a century for people to come together
and say, "Actually we ought to try and do something about
the East End." For me there is a physical legacy but the
big legacy should be the inspiration; we should be inspiring people
that this is what happens. How do you make sure that that is not
just a Wimbledon effect where people come in and do a bit of sport
for a while, but you keep going? One of the things that people
say is that after the Olympics move out of town nobody will take
your phone calls; so the question is: can we with the commitments
that we have in the SRF and the commitments from regional and
national government; can we continue that afterwards to try to
transform the East End? We are not going to do it in two years—that
is not going to happen and we should not kid ourselves that it
is going to happen. It might happen over a lengthy period if we
understand what the implications are; if we understand what we
have to do. My argument would be that this is the biggest Olympic
legacy we have managed if we are serious about it and continue
driving it forward, and that will require some significant political
support right across parties and over a long period, which says
that we must do something to transform that area. I come back
again, it is the cheapest offer; it is the cheapest option. It
is very interesting that in my borough at the moment I live in
a house that is 140 years old and people want to buy it and we
are knocking down houses that were built 30, 40 years ago. We
have to think long-term; we have to think what are we going to
do over the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years and have public policy that
reflects that. Look, it might not work, if we are being absolutely
honest it might not work, people might walk away, people might
backslide, people may say, "Yes, we said that but we do not
mean it." That is why we are here; that is why we are running
a campaign and saying to people, "Look, these are the implications
of it; you have to sign up for 20 years and you have to be serious
about it"; and we have to make sure that we are measuring
those things that matter and making sure that it transforms those
people's lives.
Q95 Chair: You have been quite praiseworthy
of the Mayor of London, that he has signed up to this too.
Sir Robin Wales: That is excellent,
yes.
Q96 Chair: What about the Government,
the Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) and
the Minister for the Olympics, are they working with you?
Sir Robin Wales: We are even more
praiseworthy of the Government, as you would expect us to be.
Listen, it is great; the Government gets it, the Mayor gets it,
terrific. We are getting it cross-party and people understand
it. We should be pleased that people have got to that and we should
be proud of that. The issue will be after the Olympics are out
are we still going to keep focusing on it? That is why we need
your support and everybody else's support to say that it has to
keep going on. But at this point I have to say—and Roger's
description about how Jobcentre Plus and others are joining up,
Homes and Communities Agency—we are getting people to see
it but it comes to when the implications come down to public policy
will we carry through the logic of convergence into public policy?
That is when it will get difficult, when it gets to the stage
when we say, "Actually we need to do something." Health,
what has happened in health over the last few years has been that
there has been a transfer of resources from East London to West
London because West London has overspent and East London has had
to carry some of that. Public policy has to run and say, "Actually,
we are not going to allow that any more; we are going to ensure
that the money is spent in the East End and we will not allow
that sort of issue to happen." That is going to take political
courage and we all need to be willing to do it if we want to change
what is the biggest area of non-employment anywhere in Europe.
Q97 Chair: Jules, are you signed
up to all this too?
Mr Pipe: Yes, absolutely. All
five boroughs are committed and have been working closely with
the Government over the last year or so on developing this. The
three key strands are at the heart of what we want to see changed
in the five boroughs, they are the three key economic drivers.
One quick thing I would say is that surely after a century it
has gone on long enough that the East End of London is seen as
such a disadvantaged area with real disadvantages of opportunity
for its local people. It is not just in an economic sense, as
Robin has touched on, that part of London does not have this drag
factor on the economic prospects of the capital as a whole and
therefore the country as a whole, but actually it is a bit of
a moral question as well. So, pick one of those two.
Q98 Chair: But to achieve your targets
you have suggested—and I am sure correctly—that part
of this is going to be employment and skills.
Sir Robin Wales: Yes.
Q99 Chair: You set a target of 200,000
jobs coming on the back of the Olympics; do you still think that
that can be achieved?
Sir Robin Wales: It is interesting.
You have to distinguish here, perhaps, to be more accurate, the
Olympics has brought some construction jobs, it has brought some
inspiration and it has been very helpful in the synergy it has
had with Westfield. But the biggest prize that we have at the
moment is Westfield and the shopping centre that is coming. Those
are 8,500 retail jobs which are longer-term jobs and those are
not just unskilled jobs, many of our people are unskilled so we
need jobs like that but also you can begin to work through into
a career, so opportunities come from that as well. Interestingly,
John Lewis has signed up to take 250 long-term unemployed—not
just locals but long-term unemployed—because it is the long-term
unemployed who have never worked that we have to go after if we
are going to transform the East End. The 8,000 will not be all
new retail jobs because some people will move from elsewhere,
but there are thousands of jobs. There was a retail outlet where
we were this morning on site looking at the Retail Academy which
is being run by the businesses, because we are very clear that
we should not be running it, nor should the academics, it is the
John Lewis and Marks & Spencer of this world who should be
telling us what they want in the skills in Westfield. So those
jobs are coming; those jobs are happening. We have then a development
site sitting there with the Park and the opportunities, and it
is the best development site in Europe, certainly, and possibly
further afield, and you have opportunities for jobs there all
down the Lee along the Thames and the Royal Docks. The Mayor of
London has said that for the next 20 years that is the hub of
the regeneration of London. There are lots and lots of jobs coming
there and so we need to make sure that those jobs result in people
who have never worked getting into those jobs; local people getting
access to those jobs and then trying to keep them locally. Very
interesting, in Newham we did some research and people moving
into Newham are poorer than people moving out of Newham. People
who are unemployed, people who are not working, move in, get jobs
and move out and we need to find a way of getting some stability
around those communities, but there are tens of thousands of jobs
coming. Many of them will be unskilled but I have to say that
there is also an argument for having high skilled jobs so that
there is an aspiration; so it is about that balance. Jules has
fought very hard to get some high skilled jobs in Hackney, and
those jobs are coming. Can we get people ready to access those
jobs? Can we get people who will go in and take those jobs rather
than sucking people in from elsewhere, that is the challenge.
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