Waste Strategy for England 2007 - Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee Contents


Examination of Witnesses ( Question Numbers 380-399)

RT HON JANE KENNEDY MP, MR DANIEL INSTONE AND MR ROY HATHAWAY

24 NOVEMBER 2008

  Q380  David Lepper: Okay, so the consultation has not been launched yet?

  Jane Kennedy: Not yet.

  Q381  David Lepper: There is further research going on?

  Jane Kennedy: That is what I am advised. Are there other particular products?

  Q382  David Lepper: No, I think you have answered me on the point I was asking about. I am just wondering if there is any timescale that you might be able to give us for when that research might be completed and for the consultation to begin?

  Jane Kennedy: I can provide that to the Committee. I have not got it in front of me.

  Q383  David Lepper: Okay. One final point, Chairman if I may, we have had a lot of information about household waste, both in terms of targets and improvements being made and so on, but we do find it a little bit difficult to get hold of up-to-date data for the commercial and industrial sector. Is Defra working on ways of making information about waste in the commercial and industrial sector more easily obtainable?

  Jane Kennedy: Yes, and I am aware that there are gaps in the data that we have available. Defra has been working with a number of organisations, certainly WRAP and NISP amongst others, studying how we can provide not only more data but data that is reliable and gives the sort of information that not only the Committee but that as Minister in Defra I would be looking to receive.

  Q384  David Lepper: Is there a problem with collecting that data or processing that data?

  Jane Kennedy: It is partly collection but it is also determining which of the data is going to be of most value.

  David Lepper: Thank you, Chairman.

  Q385  Chairman: Minister, just for the record, it is on page 13 at the top of the Executive Summary of the Strategy itself, you say: "We intend, subject to further analysis, to consult on whether the introduction of further restrictions on landfilling of biodegradable wastes or recycling matters would make an effective contribution to meeting the objectives laid out in this Strategy." We were seeking really to know what you were doing to the question that you as a Department had posed?

  Jane Kennedy: I am sorry, can you say that again.

  Q386  Chairman: I could say it again, yes. On page 13 at the top of the Executive Summary of the document entitled "Waste Strategy for England 2007", the question that Mr Lepper put to you was asked because it says in bold type at the top of that: "We intend, subject to further analysis, to consult on whether the introduction of further restrictions on the landfilling of biodegradable wastes or recyclable materials would make an effective contribution to meeting the objectives set out in this Strategy." We just wondered what you were doing and seeing as it was your question we have given you your own question to answer.

  Jane Kennedy: And I have sought to answer it.

  Q387  Chairman: Jolly good but that is where it came from. Minister, you have an array of talent behind you here. Would they like to come and sit here? Would it be easier rather than turning round because it is not easy dealing with some of this stuff. Do come and take a seat at the front because we are after the facts and it does not, in the nicest sense, matter where we get them from.

  Jane Kennedy: Would you like them to introduce themselves?

  Q388  Chairman: Yes, tell us who are they, we would love to know that!

  Mr Hathaway: I am Roy Hathaway, and I am Head of Waste Regulation in the Department.

  Mr Instone: I am Daniel Instone and I have oversight over Defra's waste programme.

  Chairman: Excellent. Do chip in because we are interested in the facts. With no disrespect, Minister, in the nicest sense we do not mind where the information comes from; it is the information that counts. Lynne Jones?

  Q389  Lynne Jones: I am glad that you mentioned the National Industrial Symbiosis Programme because that is run by International Synergies Ltd which is based in my constituency, and I have to say they are an excellent organisation with 9,300 industrial members. Of course, a big part of the Waste Strategy is, as you have said, waste as a resource. Could I ask you how you are working with councils and the recycling industry to ensure that the current materials' price volatility does not undermine public or investor confidence in recycling materials reuse?

  Jane Kennedy: You will have seen that we have been monitoring very closely the impact of the current economic climate on price. Defra, and in fact probably my two colleagues here, was instrumental in convening a meeting with the Environment Agency, with WRAP and with NISP, to consider precisely what the impact of the current price was. Bearing in mind that we have had a year of very high prices in recyclates, a statement was put out by the organisations concerned, and if you have not seen that statement we can supply it to the Committee. The statement set out a number of objectives. Amongst those objectives was continued monitoring. It also suggested that consideration would be given to any requests for increased storage facilities and issues of that nature, but the Environment Agency advise us that at the moment there is no demand for such extra storage. My response really is that we are very aware of it, we are keeping it under close review, and it is being actively followed by the organisations that take an interest.

  Q390  Lynne Jones: One other aspect of this is improving the quality of the waste which obviously would make it more useful to potential users. Has that been looked at? Obviously it varies from place to place but we have seen that some of the materials recycling centres are not quite so effective as others.

  Jane Kennedy: The issue of the quality of recyclates has been an issue for a short period of time, not just in the last few weeks but over the last couple of years. One of the requests that we have had from representatives of the various recycling industries is for easier storage rules. They have acknowledged that the Environment Agency has already helped with this. They have asked for a moratorium on regulatory changes to help with some stability over this period. They have also asked for proactive help from government in finding new buyers and alternative outlets both in the UK and overseas. Thus their primary concerns were finding the new buyers. I know there has been some comment about that publicly recently but both WRAP and the National Industrial Symbiosis Programme were working on this and there is a dialogue going on around that to see what can be done to assist.

  Q391  Lynne Jones: That brings me up to your Delivery Landscape Review for the organisations, some of whom you have already mentioned. What impact is this going to have on the programmes to maximise this use of waste as a resource run by NISP and WRAP?

  Jane Kennedy: I am still anticipating that the Delivery Landscape Review will make its final report and I am advised that officials hope that that will be by the end of the year. You will know who the review includes. It is also considering a number of Defra-funded business resource programmes. If I could give you some of the pilot projects and programmes. There is the Construction Waste and Resources Platform, the Centre for Reuse and Remanufacturing, ActionSustainability and the BREW Centre. It is also going to be considering the role of regional development agencies in supporting business resource efficiency, so it has been pretty wide-ranging. I know that you have had views about the Delivery Landscape Review itself, but my advice is that it is on course to report by the end of this year.

  Q392  Lynne Jones: What role does Defra see for funding these programmes because they have had big cuts this year, even though some of them—and again I mention NISP—are delivering really well and have a lot of potential for expansion and are seen as world leaders in actually linking up what has been described as waste not being waste but "resource in the wrong place"?

  Jane Kennedy: Some of the criticism that the Department has received about our landscape has been that it is complex and that it can be difficult for businesses to navigate, and whilst the individual organisations themselves have done exemplary work and something over £650 million has been invested in these programmes of work, there is always, I am sure, a case for improvement, and that is what I will be wanting to consider when the report comes up to me for consideration in the next few weeks.

  Q393  Lynne Jones: Do you consider this as something that is worthwhile for Defra to support or are you keen to get out of this area of work believing that it should be the responsibility of the private sector?

  Jane Kennedy: All organisations across government have been under a duty placed upon us being a responsible government to make sure that the work that we do is within the budgets that we are set. All of the organisations with whom we are working are working within budgets that were determined under the most recent CSR. Some have had their funding cut. WRAP in particular took a very significant reduction in their budget. Nonetheless, they have achieved very significant good work. They have been applauded at virtually every public event that I have attended and been pointed out to me as an example of very good investment of public money. We are not going to be pulling out of funding these bodies. However, we do think that where business in particular can start to see some environmental benefits from recycling and using waste in a more effective way, and using waste as a resource rather than a drain upon financial resources, and actually seeing income coming into the business, then there is a good case for government stepping back.

  Q394  David Lepper: There has been a lot of on-going debate, Minister, about the idea of councils being allowed to charge or reward householders in relation to recycling or reducing waste. As I referred to earlier, there does seem to be evidence that household recycling is already being achieved at a reasonable pace. Do you think councils need powers to charge or reward householders to help them to meet targets and are councils actually asking for those powers?

  Jane Kennedy: These are the incentive schemes and my view is that the commitment to enable a number of pilots is there. We have upon Royal Assent of the, what is it, the Climate Change Bill—

  Q395  Chairman: So easily forgotten; so recently passed, I cannot believe it!

  Jane Kennedy: Because it is not the Finance Bill—

  Q396  David Lepper: It is a different department.

  Jane Kennedy: Because there is a clear commitment to enable pilots, we will now undertake a period of time in which local authorities may come forward and seek pilots. We are not going to press-gang local authorities into doing it. The range of powers that we have made available to local authorities have come about largely from on-going discussion with the LGA, local authorities and others as to what they believe would be useful powers to enable them to improve their performance, so it has been very much in response to the requests from local authorities, but it is very much a matter for them and we will wait to see what pilots come forward.

  Q397  David Lepper: As you rightly said, the powers are there now in the Climate Change Bill and the proposal for pilots is there in the Climate Change Bill. Have any councils come forward yet clamouring to be amongst the first five pilot schemes? I know it is early days perhaps but were there indications while the Bill was going through Parliament that there were councils waiting for the opportunity?

  Jane Kennedy: There certainly is some interest. Whether that interest will convert into actual bids for pilots remains to be seen. It is still very early days yet so I do not want to prejudge the outcome of that.

  Q398  David Lepper: Whenever a local council changes its local strategies for collecting waste there is usually an outcry from residents and local media, particularly over things like alternate weekly household refuse collections. If Defra believes that there is a good case for switching to, for instance, fortnightly rather than weekly collections, is Defra doing enough to promote the positive aspects of that kind of change? It often seems to be left to the council to try and defend what it is doing.

  Jane Kennedy: I think that is the way it should be. I think local authorities are the best people to decide how their waste management strategy should be implemented. It is a matter for local determination. That is where there is local accountability and I do not think we should be in the position of dictating what local authorities should do.

  Chairman: David, just before you go on David Taylor just wanted to come in.

  Q399  David Taylor: Just on that point, it seems to some seasoned observers of the political scene that the Government may be putting up local authorities to take the bullets for them from the Daily Mail and Daily Express journalists. Do you have some sympathy for that point of view?

  Jane Kennedy: No, it feels the opposite way round, to be perfectly honest. It feels very much as if the Government is being put in the dock for proposing new ways of incentivising, which is the language that we use for this, but I very strongly believe that it is a matter for a local authority to determine how it wants to maximise its efficiency and its ability in recycling locally. Local authorities would be very much influenced by the abilities and the capability of local communities that it represents to be able to respond to such schemes. It will be a matter for local determination.



 
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