Examination of Witnesses (Questions 413
- 419)
TUESDAY 1 DECEMBER 2009
MR BRODIE
CLARK AND
MR MARK
FUCHTER
Q413 Chairman: Mr Clark and Mr Fuchter,
thank you very much for coming to give evidence to us today. Mr
Clark, if I could start with you: the UK Border Agency, which
is supposed to protect the borders of this country, let in 45
tonnes of cocaine last year. This must be something of an embarrassment
to all of you.
Mr Clark: I do not think we are
at all embarrassed by the work that we deliver at the border and
the performance over the last few years has been excellent in
terms of dealing with the seizures of illegal drugs coming into
the UK. We have certainly achieved and exceeded the targets that
are set for us in terms of our seizure operation and we have developed
enormously the links and relationships with other law enforcement
agencies in terms of addressing and working with the issues of
harm around both cocaine and heroin coming into the UK both at
the border and upstream..
Q414 Chairman: Do you think you are
therefore going to do a better job than HMRC because clearly many
of these problems are inherited? We now have one joint operation,
which is headed by yourself. Do you feel that this is going to
be as big a priority for yourselves as it was in the past, more
of a priority than, for example, illegal immigration? Where does
the cocaine trade end up on the checklist that you have?
Mr Clark: I sense two issues there,
if I interpret that right, and one was around the capability of
the new Border Force in terms of pooling Customs and Immigration
resources together. I have no doubt at all that we are already
recognising clear evidence from that pooling together of a much
larger workforce, so 4,000 from Customs, 4,000 from Immigration,
and our workforce of 9,200 people at the border with a much greater
flexibility in terms of dealing with people and goods, the powers
to deal with both, and we have now trained over 3,000 staff in
the skills relating to the disciplines of the other agency. That
capability has been hugely enhanced, therefore, as a consequence
for the Border Force. In terms of targets and priorities, Class
A drugs remain one of our uppermost concerns and considerations.
Q415 Chairman: "Uppermost"
sounds like quite a wide band. When you meet the Home Secretary,
in terms of banding, where would it be as far as the list is concerned?
"Uppermost" sounds quite vague.
Mr Clark: Forgive me for using
that word then. It is one of the key performance targets that
on a very regular basis we report on to the Minister, Phil Woolas,
and to the Permanent Secretary, Sir David Normington. It is amongst
the top key targets for delivery of the UK Border Agency.
Q416 Chairman: Top three maybe? Top
two?
Mr Clark: There are a number of
key priorities for the UK Border Agency. The issue around seizure
and intelligence and working with other enforcement partners in
respect of Class A drugs is one of the high level targets.
Q417 Chairman: Mr Fuchter, you have
9,200 officers responsible for securing borders—9,200 people
who could presumably ring you up at any time and ask for instructions.
How many of those are actually targeted towards the cocaine trade
as opposed to illegal immigration?
Mr Fuchter: As a generality, most
of our targeting effort is actually based on criminality itself,
the sort of indicators some of which I hope you saw yesterday:
the profiling and targeting that is going on. It is looking more
at criminality. We do target flights and other routes that are
high risk for cocaine. We cannot give a number for that because
that number will vary over time. We do not allocate resources
in a ring-fenced way to do with any one particular commodity.
Q418 Chairman: Mr Clark, have there
been any tensions as a result of the merger between these two
organisations, obviously under you as the new Head of the Border
Force?
Mr Clark: These are two organisations
with very long and fine distinguished histories and cultures.
We have moved those two organisations and produced a high level
of integration over the last 12 months, which is delivering more
effective outcomes. There are personal histories that people have
had with the legacy organisations, of course, but very clearly
both parties to this integration recognise the sense of creating
the one organisation, recognise the value that is coming from
that, and are keen to move forward and deliver the new organisation
and a higher level of performance.
Q419 Tom Brake: Mr Clark and Mr Fuchter,
does it worry you that some of your own officers believe that
you have downgraded the work of drug seizures to focus instead
on ensuring the queues are reduced, and that is reflected, they
would suggest, in your UKBA leaflet which sets out your priorities,
which makes lots of mentions about cutting queues but very few
references to drugs?
Mr Clark: It does worry me if
that is the perception of officers.
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