Examination of Witnesses (Questions 280
- 285)
WEDNESDAY 28 OCTOBER 2009
MS LESLEY
STRATHIE, MR
SIMON BOWLES
AND MR
RICHARD SUMMERSGILL
Q280 John Thurso:
Just a final comment, if I may, Chairman. In this new age of utter
transparency, it would be helpful at board level in public organisations
if one had exactly the same level of detail and transparency as
you would find in a plcI think that is a standard that
we should acceptand, as you are one of the first to have
a private sector, non-executive chairman, you and he might like
to consider that and think about leading the way?
Ms Strathie: We certainly take
that on board, but this is not Lesley Strathie Plc, it is HMRC,
a department of government, and, equally, we try to operate in
a way that makes it easy to look right across Whitehall.
Mr Bowles: Perhaps I can add to
that, we operate and we report within a standard model set by
the Treasury, so we are not fully our own masters in that matter.
Q281 Chairman:
That is something we can pursue with Treasury ministers, but you
might like to reflect on the point that has been made.
Ms Strathie: Yes, we absolutely
will do.
Q282 Chairman:
A couple of points before we finish. You have served the nationwide
network of Inland Detection Teams to complement what is being
done by the Border Agency. How clear is that division of responsibility
between yourselves and the Border Agency?
Ms Strathie: I think it is incredibly
clear, because we had about 18 months of shadow working and preparing.
I am very clear that I still have policy ownership, and it is
for me to set the service levels and the targets, commissioning
the physical detection service at the border for the UKBA. So
I still have the enforcement and compliance and the intelligence
to stop contraband getting to the border from the other side of
the UK border and then I have the inland teams if things manage
to get through the border. So the bit that the UK Border Agency
is very focused on is that physical detection at the border.
Q283 Chairman:
In that respect they are your agency?
Ms Strathie: Yes, they are a delivery
partner. They are an agency of the Home Office, but I commission
them, as opposed to commissioning anybody else, to deliver that.
Q284 Chairman:
But you are not winning on excise fraud, are you? The number of
seizures is actually down.
Ms Strathie: I think that is a
success. In fact, if you look at what was the biggest cigarette
seizure ever in Irish waters this week, you will see that the
amount of seizure the other side of the border is in itself a
success. We will be publishing figures at PBR which will demonstrate
the impact of our strategy in this space.
Q285 Chairman:
We are going to leave it there. You have promised us a great number
of notes and information. Because we are going to take these points
further with ministers, we will need that by 13 November, if you
can do that.
Ms Strathie: Could I add one point,
before you go, to the committee member who asked me about avoidance.
The last public figures we had on this that were robust would
demonstrate that we believe around £12 billion has been saved,[12]
but we only publish figures when we feel that they are robust.
Chairman: We are going to have to leave
it there. Thank you very much.
12 Note by witness: The £12bn referred
to relates to the Disclosure of Tax Avoidance Schemes (DOTAS)
regime, which was introduced in 2004. HMRC has used information
from these disclosures to prevent over £12 billion of avoidance
opportunities. Whilst the £12bn figure is frequently referred
to, it is not actually published. Back
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