Examination of Witnesses (Questions 33
- 39)
WEDNESDAY 24 FEBRUARY 2010
COUNCILLOR DR
MICHAEL FOXLEY,
MR GEORGE
HAMILTON AND
MR CALUM
IAIN MACIVER
Q33 Chairman: Can I welcome the three
of you to the Sub-Committee and thank you for making what I guess
was a long journey today. I am sorry we are slightly late. Could
you introduce yourselves formally, please?
Dr Foxley: I am Michael Foxley,
Leader of the Highland Council.
Mr Hamilton: I am George Hamilton.
I work for the Highland Council's planning and development service.
Mr Maciver: I am Calum Maciver.
I am Director of Development with Comhairle nan Eilean Siar, the
Western Isles Council.
Q34 Chairman: Thank you for helping
us. You have been down this track before. Your councils have been
involved, I think, with the working group in Scotland. What were
the main conclusions there?
Dr Foxley: If I can start with
just a slight preamble, serious problems over decades with the
Crown Estate in Scotland, very important coastal waters both to
the Highland Council and the Islands. The conclusion was the management
of the Crown Estate should be managed in Scotland. The Crown Estate
itself is owned within Scotland. The management should be transferred
to Scotland and then down to the local authorities over certain
aspects to get that management right.
Q35 Chairman: What has happened since
that conclusion you published? Has anything improved?
Dr Foxley: Not a lot. We had early
discussions about a Memorandum of Understanding. The Crown Estate
have offered such initiatives in the past and it is early days
and one has to be optimistic and hopeful, but there is a quote
from a previous chair in 1986: "The proper use of the area
around our coast can play a considerable part in the economic
preservation and regeneration of some of our most fragile rural
areas", and that is certainly what Highland Council and Comhairle
nan Eilean Siar wish. In 2002 they were committed to partnership
working, this year they are talking about a Memorandum of Understanding,
but we need to make sure that the management of the coastline
is done in line with not only national and international interests
but also local community interest, and that is sadly lacking.
Q36 Chairman: Yes. That is local
authority interest, local community interest as well as the Scottish
interest?
Mr Maciver: Yes.
Q37 Chairman: I see. Would you like
to characterise the current working relationship with The Crown
Estate Commissioners?
Mr Maciver: I attended a meeting
with The Crown Estate fairly recently and they characterised their
own relationships as being fractured. They say—and I agree
with them—they impinge on the communities of the Highlands
and Islands probably more than they impinge on any other community
across the UK. They acknowledge there has been a breakdown in
relationships. That is from The Crown Estate themselves and my
local authority would certainly agree with that. We have seen
with The Crown Estate in the past when there has been an emerging
industry, such as the aquaculture industry, that they will say
the appropriate words and give us the appropriate reassurances
and then when the industry develops and matures they move away
from it. I think we are in the same place at the moment with the
developing marine and offshore industry. I think we are hearing
the correct words from them, but I think there has to be some
form of regulatory regime or some way in which they are much closer
in partnership with us. There have been a couple of small, very,
very small steps forward in that they now wish to engage in a
Memorandum of Understanding with the local authorities, Highlands
and Islands Enterprise and other local bodies, so that is a small
step in the right direction but I would emphasise it is only a
small step in the right direction.
Q38 John Thurso: Following on from
that, can I ask you whether you find it appropriate that in such
a big nationally important (as we have heard) development such
as marine renewable energy, for example, governments in both Scotland
and Westminster have pretty well left it to The Crown Estate rather
than engaging (as they did with oil and gas) at a ministerial
level?
Mr Maciver: It seems odd that
something that is so much in the national and local interest and
something that is so much in the Islands' national interest is
left to a body of this type. From my perspective the governments
of both the UK and Scotland have a greater interest to make sure
that the industry is developed in such a way as to get the best
out of that industry. We, as a local authority, have been speaking
to a lot of developers over the last period who want to move into
demonstration projects and want to move into the demonstration
phase and they find significant difficulty from The Crown Estate
in making that leap. We believe an area like the Outer Hebrides
has got some of the richest marine resources in Europe and it
will be a failure in many ways if The Crown Estate do not take
best advantage of it and it will be a failure in many ways nationally
and locally if we do not make that resource work for us.
Q39 John Thurso: Can I ask George
Hamilton a question? In the evidence that was put before us there
was great stress on marine renewable energy and the potential
for the Council. Do you think The Crown Estate are doing everything
they should to realise these opportunities, and, if not, what
should they change?
Mr Hamilton: I think part of the
reason for the Memorandum of Understanding is to try and make
sure that the draft Memorandum of Understanding, which Calum Maciver
and Michael have been involved in, to try and make sure that with
some of these renewable energy potential projects, some of the
benefits come from the renewable energy potential, community benefit
in particular. From our perspective I think what is most important
is that we have a continued dialogue, that we have transparency
and we know what is happening and we are not on the coat tails,
if you like, we are part of the process, part of the main process
to get these developments underway. You also heard from other
witnesses that there is an important part to be played in developing
some of the supply chain issues for training, the use of local
resources, the use of yards, for instance, you know, the downturn
at the Doonreay situation, so The Crown Estate has got a huge
role to play in making sure that these things can come together
as well with all the partners, the local authorities, H&I,
et cetera.
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