Examination of Witnesses (Questions 220
- 226)
WEDNESDAY 3 MARCH 2010
MR ROGER
BRIGHT, CB
Q220 John Thurso: We had evidence
from one of the Highland councillors, I think relating to Mallaig
or somewhere, that the view is it is felt that the Crown Estate
has, as it were, a ransom strip. In a situation like that when
nobody has a clue how to value the seabed—it is almost impossible—how
do you go about ensuring the public good of ensuring that a trust
port is actually able to develop, balanced against your natural
desire to accrue greater income?
Mr Bright: There are two things
really. The first one is—and you will know, Lord Thurso,
there is quite often a lot of demand in the ports, particularly
in Scotland, to buy a seabed from us rather than to rent it—as
I think you know, we have a policy which is generally disposed
against selling bits of seabed. It is not an absolutely inflexible
policy but our predisposition is against, and the reason for that
is bitter experience because in the past historically we had sold
parcels of land in ports and harbours and we found that that stores
up a problem for the future because somebody may come along 20,
30, 40 years later and want to construct a new development of
some sort in the harbour and it can be extraordinarily messy if
there is a patchwork quilt of ownership in the harbour. That is
why we have generally followed policy of not now selling. That
said, we grant long leases and generally speaking we will grant
long leases of seabed in harbour situations up to 125 years, which
we have never found has been an inhibition to development or the
financing of development.
Q221 John Thurso: When Dr Michael
Foxley, the Leader of Highland Council, was here he made a very
strong submission in favour of a socioeconomic fund to be created,
and likened it to the Shetland Oil Fund for Orkney and, I guess,
Caithness and the Mainland, and I know that you are currently
discussing a Memorandum of Understanding with Highlands and Islands
Council. But in press reports afterwards it talks of tens of millions
being in this fund. Can I ask you, one: do you agree with the
principle of a socioeconomic fund; and, two: are those sorts of
numbers achievable?
Mr Bright: I have no reason to
disagree with a socioeconomic fund. I think it would be very difficult
under the terms of our Act for us to put money straight into such
a fund. I think it would almost certainly fall foul of the provisions
in our Act. That said, I think that the main benefits that are
likely to come out of offshore renewable energy, particularly
in the Highlands and Islands, are likely to be economic activity
in the communities, and we can certainly play a part there by
working with the local authorities in terms of developing their
strategies for taking advantage of the opportunities that arise.
There are assets that we can, if you like, put into the mix that
may be able to help the development of such strategies and plans,
and certainly that is the focus of the Memorandum of Understanding
that we actually initiated.
Q222 John Thurso: Can I just be clear
on this? If you put up an onshore wind farm at the moment part
of your planning processes is community benefit, and typically
for a 50 megawatt installation it will be a capital sum of £500,000
and an annual income of between £40,000 and £50,000
which will go to a community fund. Are you saying that the Crown
Estate is prohibited from similar arrangements with communities
that are hosting their activities?
Mr Bright: I think it is fair
to say that the Crown Estate Act would not allow us simply to
make payments into a fund, but there are other ways in which we
believe—
Q223 John Thurso: Even if they were
coming out of a portion of the rent that you are getting from
people? Obviously, after it has been developed, not in the early
stages.
Mr Bright: Yes. But I would say
that we do find other ways of working with communities and putting
something back. You are probably aware that we have a marine stewardship
fund where we channel funds into small local community schemes,
pontoons and harbours—
Q224 John Thurso: The worrying word
there is "small". The Shetland Oil Fund has made the
Shetlands a highly sustainable community and this is a vast resource;
it could be in 20 years' time, 12, 13, 14 gigawatts, a quarter
of Britain's installed capacity, and the poor blighters who live
on the cliffs at either side just watch all the money going out.
That is a bit of hard luck.
Mr Bright: I understand that and
no doubt the local authorities will have discussions with the
developers as well; so I am sure that they will want to talk to
us.
Q225 John Thurso: You are talking
about it coming from the developers direct rather than you having
an involvement?
Mr Bright: I think it would be
difficult for us under our Act to put funds in directly.
Q226 Chairman: We have the Minister
waiting outside for our next session. You promised us a number
of points in writing; we will need those within the next seven
days of business and we may of course have other follow-up questions
as well.
Mr Bright: Of course.
Chairman: In the meantime, thank you
very much for your evidence today.
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