The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chair:
†Philip
Davies
Barron,
Mr Kevin (Rother Valley)
(Lab)
†
Campbell,
Mr Ronnie (Blyth Valley)
(Lab)
Donaldson,
Mr Jeffrey M. (Lagan Valley)
(DUP)
†
Drax,
Richard (South Dorset)
(Con)
†
Ellwood,
Mr Tobias (Bournemouth East)
(Con)
†
Eustice,
George (Camborne and Redruth)
(Con)
†
Francois,
Mr Mark (Vice-Chamberlain of Her Majesty's
Household)
Hendrick,
Mark (Preston)
(Lab/Co-op)
†
Hopkins,
Kris (Keighley)
(Con)
†
Johnson,
Joseph (Orpington)
(Con)
†
Jones,
Mr Kevan (North Durham)
(Lab)
†
Knight,
Mr Greg (East Yorkshire)
(Con)
†
Munt,
Tessa (Wells) (LD)
†
Raynsford,
Mr Nick (Greenwich and Woolwich)
(Lab)
†
Robathan,
Mr Andrew (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for
Defence)
†
Roy,
Mr Frank (Motherwell and Wishaw)
(Lab)
Stringer,
Graham (Blackley and Broughton)
(Lab)
†
Williams,
Roger (Brecon and Radnorshire)
(LD)
Eliot Wilson, Committee
Clerk
† attended the
Committee
First
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Monday 13
September
2010
[Philip
Davies
in the
Chair]
Draft
Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order
2010
4.30
pm
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew
Robathan):
I beg to move,
That the
Committee has considered the draft Armed Forces Act (Continuation)
Order 2010.
I am pleased
to speak to the Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2010, Mr Davies.
I look forward to you guiding our proceedings today with your customary
wisdom—it says here.
The purpose of
the order is to continue the legislation governing the armed forces for
a further period of one year, until November 2011. Before we reach that
date, the Ministry of Defence needs to introduce primary legislation to
keep the legislation in force for a further period. With your leave, Mr
Davies, I should like to say a few words about the legislation that the
order is set to continue—the Armed Forces Act 2006. The Act
introduced, for the first time, a single system of service law. That
system applies to all members of the armed forces wherever in the world
they are serving. Today’s debate is the first that has taken
place since the 2006 Act was fully implemented and came into force on
31 October 2009. As a direct result of that Act, the three service
discipline Acts—the Army Act 1955, the Air Force Act
1955 and the Naval Discipline Act 1957—have all been repealed.
This year, the continuation order is not, therefore, concerned with the
service discipline Acts.
The 2006 Act
represents a significant change. Relevant service personnel were
trained in advance so that they were ready for the change to the new
regime. We have had feedback from the services since implementation.
They tell us that the 2006 Act is doing a good job. I am pleased that
it has taken root so quickly and I hope that it will serve the armed
forces well for many years to come.
I shall now
say a few words about the forthcoming armed forces Bill. As might be
expected following the major changes in the 2006 Act, the next armed
forces Bill will be more modest in scale. It will have a wide range of
provisions, largely because the MOD normally has primary legislation
only every five years. As well as renewing the current legislation, the
Bill will make changes to the powers of the service police and make
provisions to strengthen the structural independence of service police
in carrying out investigations. The Bill will also contain a number of
provisions related to service personnel policy and make changes to the
service justice system. It will make a number of provisions in
connection with other defence matters, including new regulations
governing prisoners of war.
Mr
Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con):
The explanatory
memorandum to the order states that
“statutory
instruments made under the 2006 Act have been subjects of consultation
with a range of stakeholders (including…the Services
themselves)”.
At
what level did that consultation take
place?
Mr
Robathan:
That was dealt with by normal procedures through
the MOD and went to each single relevant service. Indeed, they have
made representations on various issues. I might—though not in
the Committee—tell my right hon. Friend later about one thing
that I insisted was taken out. But we have
consulted.
Mr
Knight:
The explanatory memorandum also refers to the
guidance that is available. Paragraph 9.1 states:
“A new
Manual of Service Law has been produced”
and that this
“is intended for
commanding officers and those who administer the service justice
system”.
What
about the junior ranks who may be the subject of a disciplinary
procedure? Are they entitled to a copy of that manual if they request
one?
Mr
Robathan:
I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, but I am
quite sure that this will be on the internet. My right hon. Friend will
be amazed at the ability with which all junior ranks now manage the
internet—much quicker perhaps than I can, and perhaps even him.
There is certainly no intention to exclude junior ranks from the
knowledge of the service disciplinary procedures.
In contrast to
media reporting around the time of the Queen’s Speech, the next
armed forces Bill will not include provisions to rebuild the military
covenant. That work is already being taken forward through policy
development by the Ministry of Defence, working in concert with a
number of other Government Departments. Primary legislation will not be
required to achieve the majority of the improvements the Government
wish to deliver for our armed forces and their families. Our aim is to
introduce the Bill toward the end of this year. We plan to secure Royal
Assent in good time before the legislation expires in November 2011. I
very much look forward to taking the Bill through its parliamentary
stages in due course.
4.35
pm
Mr
Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab):
It is a pleasure to
serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I sometimes think that this
Act is stalking me. I was on the original Bill Committee, along with my
hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw. I then became a
Minister and, lo and behold, found I was responsible for implementing
some of the related statutory instruments and also for giving
authorisation to the new Bill. I have now come into opposition and I
find that it is following me here
too.
This
is not a contentious measure. It is very sensible continuation order
and so the Opposition will support it. I should like to say two things.
First I should like to thank the Bill Committee staff who worked on the
Act and who will draw up the new Bill too. They worked tremendously
hard. As the Minister will learn, they are dedicated individuals who
manage the complexities of this matter, certainly in terms of merging
the previous three service Acts. Secondly, the Minister said that he
would explain to the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire what he had
taken out of the consultation. I would appreciate it if he could share
that with the rest of the
Committee.
4.36
pm
Mr
Robathan:
May I join the hon. Gentleman in thanking
hard-working civil servants? They do not get thanked very much.
Today’s Sun leader, which the Committee will be surprised
to hear that I read this morning, talks about civil servants downing
their gin and tonics in London clubs. I have not seen that happening
much around my office or anywhere else for that matter. Civil servants
do a great deal of hard work in the public service. As for what is not
in the Bill, I do not think I am duty bound to tell the hon. Gentleman
that but I will tell him outside the Committee when it is not on the
record.
Joseph
Johnson (Orpington) (Con):
Will the Minister join me in
also applauding the efforts of the hard-working fund raisers in my
constituency who have worked tirelessly on behalf of Help for Heroes? I
recently attended a fete at Chelsfield village which raised no less
than £6,000. It was its greatest total ever: half went to the
headline charity Help for Heroes and the rest went to a number of other
worthy local causes.
Mr
Robathan:
I certainly will join my hon. Friend in
congratulating the people in his constituency. Bryn Parry, who started
Help for Heroes not three years ago, has been what can only be
described as dynamic in moving this forward. He has captured a mood in
this country which is exemplified by my hon. Friend’s
constituents. People want to help our armed forces who tragically have
an extremely high profile at the moment, not least because of the
number of deaths. I congratulate Help for Heroes, my hon.
Friend’s constituents and Bryn
Parry.
Finally,
it may seem that this is an unnecessary piece of parliamentary
procedure. As a former soldier and a politician for a few years now, I
think it is essential that the Houses of Parliament retain their
control over armed forces Acts as we are doing today with this
continuation order for one year. Otherwise we forget that the armed
forces are controlled by the Houses of Parliament, which is vital.
Those with a sense of history will know why it is that we do that. I
think I have now said quite
enough.
Question
put and agreed
to.
4.39
pm
Committee
rose.
