The
Committee consisted of the following
Members:
Chair:
Mr Peter
Bone
†
Afriyie,
Adam (Windsor) (Con)
†
Benyon,
Richard (Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment,
Food and Rural Affairs)
†
Bridgen,
Andrew (North West Leicestershire)
(Con)
†
Crouch,
Tracey (Chatham and Aylesford)
(Con)
†
Cunningham,
Alex (Stockton North)
(Lab)
†
Field,
Mr Frank (Birkenhead)
(Lab)
†
Goodwill,
Mr Robert (Scarborough and Whitby)
(Con)
†
Havard,
Mr Dai (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney)
(Lab)
†
Kawczynski,
Daniel (Shrewsbury and Atcham)
(Con)
†
McFadden,
Mr Pat (Wolverhampton South East)
(Lab)
Moon,
Mrs Madeleine (Bridgend)
(Lab)
†
Murray,
Sheryll (South East Cornwall)
(Con)
†
Newton,
Sarah (Truro and Falmouth)
(Con)
Paisley,
Ian (North Antrim)
(DUP)
†
Pound,
Stephen (Ealing North)
(Lab)
†
Reid,
Mr Alan (Argyll and Bute)
(LD)
†
Rogerson,
Dan (North Cornwall)
(LD)
†
Soulsby,
Sir Peter (Leicester South)
(Lab)
Sarah Davies, Committee
Clerk
† attended the
Committee
Third
Delegated Legislation
Committee
Tuesday 16
November
2010
[Mr
Peter Bone
in the
Chair]
Draft
Legislative and Regulatory Reform (Regulatory Functions) (Amendment)
Order
2010
10.30
am
The
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural
Affairs (Richard Benyon):
I beg to move,
That the
Committee has considered the draft Legislative and Regulatory Reform
(Regulatory Functions) (Amendment) Order
2010.
It
is a great pleasure, Mr Bone, to serve under your chairmanship. May I
take this opportunity to welcome the hon. Member for Leicester South to
his position? This is the first opportunity we have had to debate
together formally, and it will be a great pleasure to work with
him—I hope it will be a case of “with”—on
nearly everything that I deal with.
I am pleased
to present the statutory instrument to the Committee. As Members will
know, better regulation across Government and its network of delivery
bodies is an important tenet of the coalition’s drive for
responsible and accountable policy and delivery. The statutory
instrument seeks formally to ensure that the Marine Management
Organisation adheres to a common standard of better regulation by
adding it to the list of bodies subject to the Legislative and
Regulatory Reform Act
2006.
The
principles of better regulation stipulate that regulatory activities
should be transparent, accountable, proportionate, consistent and
targeted. I am sure that the Committee will agree that those principles
should underpin the effective working of our public bodies. The MMO has
been following these principles since vesting on 1 April this year. The
framework document setting out the MMO’s remit and corporate
governance responsibilities, as agreed by the MMO and its sponsors,
states:
“As a
Government Regulator the MMO must have regard to the five principles of
good regulation…The MMO will have a risk-based, proportionate,
targeted and flexible approach to regulatory inspection and
enforcement.”
Although
the MMO is already complying, it is nevertheless important formally to
recognise the MMO’s commitment to these regulatory
principles.
Members will
know that the MMO is the Government’s key delivery body for
marine policy, bringing together the management of a number of marine
activities, including fishing, nature conservation, planning, licensing
and enforcement. Delivering functions on behalf of a range of
Departments, the MMO is jointly sponsored by the Department for
Communities and Local Government, the Department of Energy and Climate
Change, the Ministry of Defence, and the Department for Environment,
Food and Rural Affairs.
The length
and breadth of the responsibilities that rest at the door of the MMO is
huge. From planning to fishing, and from aggregate extraction to
pollution control,
its influence is felt not only locally, but nationally and
internationally. That is exactly what we envisaged when the Marine and
Coastal Access Act 2009 passed through Parliament. People from across
the political spectrum worked together to put that important piece of
legislation on to the statute book. I worked on it when in opposition,
and now that I am in government, I want to ensure that it is enacted
correctly. It is right that the MMO should adhere to the common
standards of better regulation, and the order recognises its efforts to
do so. I hope that the Committee will join me in supporting the
order.
10.33
am
Sir
Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab):
May I say what a
pleasure it is, Mr Bone, to serve under your chairmanship? I thank the
Minister for his welcome, and I look forward to working with him when I
can, and to providing robust opposition when I must. We will doubtless
be seeing much more of each other in the weeks and months
ahead.
As the
Minister said, the Marine Management Organisation is barely seven
months old. Following the election, many feared that it was likely to
be strangled in its infancy as part of the dismantling and
disempowering of independent advisory bodies. We are pleased that it
has been spared, although it is looking rather sickly and the prognosis
is not good as it ought to be.
The Minister
reminded us that the MMO was established under the Marine and Coastal
Access Act 2009. It is tasked with promoting clean, healthy, safe,
productive and biologically diverse oceans and seas. However, it is
intended to be more than the sum of its parts. Those parts include
parts of the Marine and Fisheries Agency, the Department of Energy and
Climate Change, and the Department for Transport that came together to
form it. It is intended to give emphasis to sustainable development,
and to provide a focus and a fundamental shift in planning, regulating
and licensing activity in the marine
environment.
Under
the MMO, key marine decision-making powers and delivery mechanisms have
been brought together for the first time and co-ordinated in a single
body with sustainability at its heart. The Minister has set out the
aspects of the principles of good regulation that the measure will
require the MMO to adhere to. It is entirely appropriate that it should
be expected to meet the regulators’ compliance code as regards
economic progress, risk assessment, advice and guidance, inspections,
information requirements, compliance with enforcement actions, and
accountability.
As the
Minister has said, the MMO will be expected to apply those principles
across a wide range of responsibilities, and that is what I wish to
express concern about. The MMO has responsibility for implementing the
new marine planning system and the new marine licensing regime. It also
has responsibility for managing the UK fishing fleet and its capacity,
and the UK fisheries quotas, and it has a responsibility to work with
Natural England and the Joint Nature Conservation Committee in
establishing a network of marine protected areas, which have been
described as the national parks of our seas. Those are a wide range of
responsibilities. When it was established, the MMO was deliberately set
up as a very lean organisation. As a result of that, it is vulnerable
to spending cuts. There is real concern about
its ability to fulfil the duties that were set out in legislation and
the responsibilities that will be imposed by the measure, because the
MMO needs expertise in oil and gas, in economics, in fisheries and in
so much more. Many who had high hopes for the MMO now fear for its
effectiveness.
To
exacerbate the budgetary problems, the MMO’s two top
people—the chair and chief executive—recently left within
the space of two weeks. First, it was reported that Steven Gant had
left the post of chief executive to “pursue other
interests”. Now, it has been announced that MMO chairman and
former Royal Navy officer Chris Parry is to step down. Mr Parry has
said that he wants to
“commit more
time to my business…career.”
Since his appointment
in July last year, Mr Parry has been the driving force in successfully
setting up the MMO, ensuring its launch on time in April and
establishing it as an exemplary public body. Close observers are very
worried. The National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations,
for example, has expressed concern about the “turbulence”
within the MMO associated with these abrupt departures.
Before we are
asked to take forward the measure, may I ask the Minister for some
assurances on the future of the MMO? Can he assure us that the
departure of the chair and the chief executive in no way relates to
disagreements about the MMO’s future direction, or to concern
about the adequacy of MMO funding and its ability to effectively carry
out the tasks that it has been given, and will be given under the
measure? Can he tell us when it is intended that a new chair and chief
executive will be in place? Finally, will he commission an independent
assessment of the effect of the expenditure reductions on the
MMO’s ability to carry out the functions that it has been given,
and its ability to be both an effective regulator and a champion of the
marine environment, as so many hoped and expected it would be? The
Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 was widely welcomed in the House and
by the many people who care about the health, well-being and
productivity of our oceans. The cuts to the MMO appear to put that
sustainable future in great
peril.
10.39
am
Sarah
Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con):
It is a great pleasure
to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. I welcome this
measure and the regulatory reform that it will bring to the Marine
Management Organisation. The fact that the MMO will have to abide by
the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform statutory
code of practice for regulators means that there is the possibility of
improving the decision-making processes of the bodies that have
recently come together under the umbrella of the MMO. I particularly
support the Hampton principles on which the code is based, especially
the principle
that
“regulators
should recognise that a key element of their activity will be to allow,
or even encourage, economic progress and only to intervene when there
is a clear case for
protection.”
It
is essential that the right balance is struck between marine
environmental protection regulation and economic progress. Striking
that balance will be vital for the future prosperity of my constituency
and, indeed, west Cornwall. To illustrate properly the fact that the
way in
which we regulate our marine environment is important not just to my
constituency, but to communities all around our shores, I shall
describe a current problem of regulation in my
constituency.
I
represent the port of Falmouth, an area of outstanding natural beauty
and the third largest natural harbour in the world. The port has played
an important role throughout history as a safe haven for ships coming
across the Atlantic—as the first port in the United Kingdom.
Within the harbour limits is the Fal and Helford estuaries special area
of conservation, which is protected by EU habitat directives. The SAC
provides a valuable habitat for our native oysters. Falmouth has the
last remaining oyster fishing fleet under sail in Europe. We understand
the value of our natural environment; we show great respect to our
environment. Cornish water bill customers pay the highest bills in the
whole UK to ensure that sea water quality meets the highest standards
in the
EU.
The
Environment Agency works constructively in partnership with local
businesses to help protect and improve water quality. That is no small
achievement, given the mining heritage of the area. People come from
around the world to Wheal Jane to see how post-industrial
pollution—
The
Chair:
Order. I was unusually generous to the shadow
Minister; he wandered, but was quite clever in bringing his speech back
to the five principles. We are considering a tight instrument, so will
the hon. Lady address her remarks to the principles of the statutory
instrument?
Sarah
Newton:
Thank you, Mr Bone. I understand your request, but
given the complexities of balancing environmental protection with
economic development in an area such as mine, I need to provide the
Committee with evidence to show what the issues are and how they relate
to effective regulation. I shall try to go into slightly less
detail.
The
port is vibrant. It has many marine industries. In particular, it has a
ship repair business, where Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service ships are
maintained. A wide range of businesses support marine renewables, as
well as oil bunkering and the shipping of recyclables. The businesses
in the docks are, at present, the largest private sector employers in
Cornwall, with more than 1,600 full-time employees
generating nearly £50 million in the local economy. The harbour
commissioners have developed a master plan for the future of the port,
and that plan has shown that for the port to expand and flourish, it
needs to be dredged. It has been dredged for a long period, and the
dredging is needed to maintain existing businesses in the port and
expand others. That could create an additional 4,000 jobs to support
the wider economy of
Cornwall.
In
support of the master plan, numerous approvals will be required. The
harbour commissioners, along with Cornwall council and businesses in
the port, have spent large quantities of time and money working with
the most highly regarded, independent environmental and legal experts
to make the appropriate assessments. Widespread consultation has been
undertaken. Natural England, which looks with a single lens at the
issue, has an objection.
The
Chair:
Order. I am sure that the hon. Lady will bring her
speech back to the five principles dealt with by the statutory
instrument, but I am beginning to think that we are wandering into an
Adjournment
debate.
Sarah
Newton:
I will try to summarise where I am going with my
speech.
Natural
England’s objection is about the protection of the SAC. The
estimate of the damage to the SAC is that less than 2% of the maerl
that makes up the SAC will be damaged, and it will recover within 15
years. We feel that that does not compromise the SAC overall, and that
Natural England, with its worries about how the EU may respond to any
damage caused by the dredging, might be over-zealous in its
interpretation of EU
directives.
I
hope that when this statutory instrument comes into force tomorrow, all
the principles of effective regulation are used in determining such
decisions, the right balance between environmental protection and
economic growth is struck, and the dredging of the port can go ahead,
so that the future viability of Falmouth is ensured. We want to ensure
that our maerl beds thrive and prosper, but we also want to ensure that
the people of Falmouth and, indeed, Cornwall thrive and prosper. The
right decision in Falmouth will give people not only in Cornwall, but
in communities all around our shores, hope that their way of life, and
their contribution to the UK economy and to the protection of the
environment, are understood and supported by Ministers. I hope that
this Government, who have made the sustainable development of the UK
economy their key goal, will achieve that
balance.
10.46
am
Sheryll
Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con):
I will try to stick to
the five principles of good
regulation.
Daniel
Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con):
As our colleague
did.
Sheryll
Murray:
As my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and
Falmouth did. In my constituency, we have had a long-standing campaign
about the disposal of dredged material that has been licensed under the
Food and Environmental Protection Act 1985. Residents, as well as the
tourists who visit the beautiful beaches in Whitsand bay, think that
regulation has not been transparent, accountable, proportionate,
consistent or targeted. May I thank the Minister for realising that,
and the MMO for conducting an inquiry, which is ongoing? The statutory
instrument will ensure that, at the end of that inquiry, people in my
constituency can rest assured that the principles will be adhered to. I
look forward to receiving an update from the MMO on how the inquiry is
progressing. For that reason, I will support the statutory
instrument.
10.47
am
Richard
Benyon:
I am grateful to hon. Members for their
contributions, which I will seek to respond to in as open and as clear
a way as I can. I thank the hon. Member for Leicester
East—
Sir
Peter Soulsby:
South.
Richard
Benyon:
South; I do apologise. That was a default
position.
I
can reassure the hon. Gentleman on his concerns about the MMO. If he
has not already had the opportunity to do so, I urge him to go to
Gateshead. If I can facilitate his going there or to any of the
regional offices, he will have my full support. He will see an
organisation full of really motivated people. Some of those who came
from a predecessor organisation have moved a long way to be there, and
many new people have been recruited. When I was in opposition, I had
concerns about this new organisation and about how it would bed down.
Having gone there, however, one can have nothing but praise for the
motivation of the staff, and their determination to make it a
success.
I
am on the record as saying that I want the MMO to be seen as the
exemplar of what an arm’s length body should be. It should be
independent, well resourced and able to carry out its job across the
wide range of areas of regulation that we require it to deal with. It
should also be seen as a champion of our seas. I want people from
abroad to see how we manage our seas, and how we are rolling out the
marine conservation zones that the hon. Gentleman mentioned effectively
and in consultation with all the interested parties, in a balanced and
even-handed way. The fact that I have received complaints from some
green non-governmental organisations saying that we are too much in
favour of socio-economic activities, and from fisheries and other
socio-economic activities saying that we are too much in favour of
green NGOs, makes me think that we might be getting it about right, but
it is too early to say.
I understand
that the hon. Gentleman raises serious points of concern. If they are
points of perception, I hope that I can give him some reality. The
chair of the MMO, Chris Parry, has done a superb job setting up the
organisation and driving it. I regret his decision to leave, but I
respect it. I want to put on record my thanks to him for leading that
organisation before it appointed Steven Gant as chief executive. I
reassure the hon. Gentleman that the organisation is well led. The
current chair retires at the end of this month, so he is still there.
We have put in place a good interim chair and a good interim chief
executive, who will lead the organisation until we appoint a new
chairman, as we will do by Easter. I will closely monitor the process
of choosing the chair, and I want to ensure that he or she will lead
the organisation effectively. There is also a deputy chair, whom we did
not have before. She is an effective person who is guiding the interim
chief executive. I assure the hon. Gentleman that, although it may look
a little messy, the MMO is a steady ship and is proceeding
well.
I
have had only two letters from people raising the concerns that the
hon. Gentleman mentioned. One was from an organisation representing a
large number of stakeholders. I assure the hon. Gentleman, as I assured
them, that the organisation is properly led and is carrying out its
functions. He is right: the MMO takes on more responsibility for
licensing and planning in April. We will ensure that it does that
properly.
The
hon. Gentleman also mentioned the organisation’s funding. Like
other non-departmental public bodies, the MMO is expected to make a
contribution to my Department’s overall commitment to reduce
spending in-year. As with other DEFRA arm’s length bodies, the
MMO was asked to make 5% cuts to feed into departmental
cuts of 5.5% this year. I cannot give him any details about where
exactly the funding of the MMO will be in relation to the spending
review, but I can assure him that the cuts will not be as high as in
other areas of the Department, because we recognise that it is a new
organisation and that new organisations need time to bed down. If and
when he visits it, he will see that it is carrying out its functions,
and is confident that it can carry out its future functions, within the
budget constraints that we are discussing with it. I hope that I can
give him further assurances as we
proceed.
My
hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth made an important point
about how the MMO carries out its functions with regard to dredging and
its impact on sustaining a major industrial activity and a major
employer in her constituency. Nobody is more aware than I am of the
importance of development activities that can secure jobs in future.
The MMO has to be independent of Ministers in its function of assessing
whether developments can go ahead. That is not to say that we cannot
provide strict, clear guidelines. If there is a misinterpretation in
any application, and the balance is got wrong, in terms of
socio-economic activities and the importance of development, and if we
are over-cautious in response to the legislation and the framework
under which such decisions are made, we can look at that. However, it
is important that the MMO carries out its independent assessment. Once
a decision is made, my hon. Friend and I can have conversations, and
she can talk with the
MMO.
If
the decision goes against Falmouth Harbour Board, the Falmouth Docks
& Engineering Company and the Falmouth harbour commissioners, we
can have a discussion about how we take the matter forward. I
understand the
imperative of ensuring that ports such as Falmouth continue to be a
source of major economic activity for that part of the country and a
driver of regeneration in that area. I will do all that I can to
support my hon. Friend in
that.
My
hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall, like my hon. Friend the
Member for Truro and Falmouth, has been a resolute and determined
campaigner for her constituents. In her case, the issue is the dumping
of dredge sediment off Rame Head and its impact on the tourist
industry, particularly around the HMS Scylla dive site—the first
dive reef created in this country. I have seen it for myself, through
her good offices. The MMO is carrying out an investigation. As with all
its investigations, that investigation will call on scientific research
on the impact of the dumping of those dredged materials. I hope that
she will soon hear the result of that investigation. If she requires an
update at any stage on how that is proceeding and the likely time
scale—I get the impression that she would like that—we
will write to her and let her know about that. I know that it is a
matter of great concern for many people in her
constituency.
I
hope that I have satisfied hon. Members that this statutory instrument
is important because it ties up the loose threads that were left by the
Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009, in terms of the MMO’s role
and the framework under which it carries out its functions. I am
grateful for the words of support, and I hope that the Committee will
approve this instrument today.
Question
put and agreed
to.
10.57
am
Committee
rose.