2 Nov 2011 : Column 1028
We understand that the amendments seek to protect the rights of individuals in developing countries to claim damages against large multinational companies, but the amendments go much wider than that, and would provide that a losing defendant should pay the success fee and ATE insurance premium based on whether it is a multinational company, regardless of the nature of the claim or status of the claimant.
Given the concerns that I have been raising in relation to cases brought by claimants in developing countries, I shall concentrate my response on those cases. The amendments are neither necessary nor appropriate. The Government believe that it will still be possible to bring claims against multinational companies, once our CFA reforms are implemented, but—this is one of the major reasons for our reforms overall—we believe that the costs involved will be more proportionate to the sums in issue. What the proposals in the Bill seek to address is not the validity of the claims, but the iniquity of a system that can allow such disproportionate costs. It is worth emphasising that the current system of recoverable success fees and recoverable ATE insurance premiums, with the consequences for high civil costs, is not seen in any other jurisdiction in the world. CFAs will continue to be available, but the Bill also extends the funding options. The Government seek to allow damages-based agreements to be used for the first time to fund such claims. Group actions in particular are suited to DBAs, as legal representatives may recover their fees as a percentage of the damages awarded to each successful claimant.
Amendments 163, 164 and 165 seek to ensure that success fees continue to be recoverable in defamation and privacy claims. The Government are aware of concerns about access to justice and the ability of those with modest means to pursue claims, often against powerful organisations. I am aware that there are slight definitional differences, which I will not go into. However, all hon. Members will be aware of one of the most high-profile cases, involving the Dowler family, who were successful in their claim against News International.
6 pm
Deba te interrupted (Programme Order , 31 October ).
The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), That the amendment be made.
The House divided:
Ayes 223, Noes 315.
[6 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Ashworth, Jonathan
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Mr Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacShane, rh Mr Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh David
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reynolds, Emma
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruddock, rh Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Ayes:
Graham Jones and
Tom Blenkinsop
NOES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Alexander, rh Danny
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Mr Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howarth, Mr Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Leech, Mr John
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Patrick
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Paice, rh Mr James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Rogerson, Dan
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Mr Richard
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Noes:
Mark Hunter and
Mr Shailesh Vara
Question accordingly negatived.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1029
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1030
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1031
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1032
The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disposal of business to be concluded at that time (Standing Order No. 83E).
Amendment proposed: 163, page 29, line 41, at end insert—
‘(7) The amendments made by subsections (2) and (4) do not apply in relation to a success fee payable under a conditional fee agreement made in relation to—
(a) any proceedings based on a claim of defamation; or
(b) any proceedings based on a claim of privacy under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights; or
(c) any proceedings arising out of the same cause of action as any proceedings to which paragraphs (a) or (b) refer.’.—(Chris Bryant.)
Question put, That the amendment be made.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1033
The House divided:
Ayes 222, Noes 305.
[6.13 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Mr Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
George, Andrew
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Lloyd, Tony
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacShane, rh Mr Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh David
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reynolds, Emma
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruddock, rh Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Ward, Mr David
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Ayes:
Graham Jones and
Tom Blenkinsop
NOES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duddridge, James
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Mr Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Gauke, Mr David
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, Mr Gerald
Howell, John
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lloyd, Stephen
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Patrick
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Paice, rh Mr James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Rogerson, Dan
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Mr Richard
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr Shailesh Vara and
Jeremy Wright
Question accordingly negatived.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1034
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1035
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1036
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1037
Amendments made: 75, page 47, line 36, at end insert—
‘( ) In section 322 of that Act (financial penalty enforcement orders), in the definition of “financial penalty” in subsection (4), after “including” insert “a fine imposed by the Court Martial or the Service Civilian Court under paragraph 10(1)(aa) of Schedule 8 to the 2003 Act by virtue of section 184 and Part 2 of Schedule 5 (breach etc of overseas community order) or”.’.
Amendment 76, page 48, line 2, at end insert—
‘( ) Part 2 of Schedule 5 to that Act (breach, revocation and amendment of overseas community orders) is amended as follows.’.
Amendment 77, page 48, line 3, leave out from ‘In’ to ‘paragraph’ in line 4.
Amendment 78, page 48, line 6, at end insert—
‘( ) After paragraph 14 insert—
14A (1) The following provisions apply where the Court Martial or the Service Civilian Court imposes a fine under paragraph 10(1)(aa) of that Schedule as applied by this Part of this Schedule.
(2) Section 251 of this Act (power to order payment of fine by instalments) applies in relation to the fine as it applies in relation to a fine imposed by a court for a service offence.
(3) Where the offender is aged under 18 when the fine is imposed and has a service parent or service guardian (within the meaning of section 268 of this Act), subsections (2) to (4) of that section (payment of fine by service parent or service guardian) apply in relation to the fine as they apply in relation to a fine imposed in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) of that section.
(4) In the application of subsection (2) of section 268 by virtue of sub-paragraph (3) of this paragraph, the reference in that subsection to the time of conviction is to be read as a reference to the time the fine is imposed.
(5) Section 269(2) of this Act (power of court to make financial statement order before making order under section 268) does not apply in relation to an order under section 268 which is made by virtue of sub-paragraph (3) of this paragraph.”’.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 3, page 75, line 16, leave out ‘Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000’ and insert ‘Sentencing Act’.
Amendment 4, page 75, line 19, leave out
‘Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000)’ and insert ‘Sentencing Act)’.
Amendment 5, page 75, line 37, leave out ‘recommends’ and insert ‘directs’.
Amendment 6, page 75, line 39, leave out ‘recommendation’ and insert ‘direction’.
Amendment 7, page 76, line 32, leave out ‘recommends’ and insert ‘directs’.
Amendment 8, page 76, line 34, leave out ‘recommendation’ and insert ‘direction’.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendment made: 9, page 79, line 39at end insert—
‘( ) In section 256(1) (review by the Board)—
(a) for “recommend” substitute “direct”;
(b) for “recommendation” substitute “direction”.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1038
( ) In section 256A (further review)—
(a) in subsection (4)(a), for “recommending” substitute “directing”;
(b) in subsection (4)(c), for “recommendation” substitute “direction”;
(c) in subsection (5), for “recommendation” (in both places) substitute “direction”.’.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 28, page 86, line 5, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 29, page 86, line 25, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 30, page 86, line 30, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 31, page 86, leave out lines 41 and 42.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 32, page 87, line 12, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 33, page 87, line 27, after ‘6B’ insert ‘, 6BA’.
Amendment 34, page 87, line 30, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 35, page 87, line 33, leave out ‘transported’ and insert ‘taken’.
Amendment 36, page 87, line 33, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 37, page 87, line 37, at end insert—
‘(a) the Scottish Ministers, in a case where it is proposed that the person who is the subject of a request under subsection (1)(b) will, whilst in transit—
(i) be present only in Scotland, or
(ii) arrive in Scotland before being taken to another part of Great Britain;’.
Amendment 38, page 87, leave out lines 38 to 41.
Amendment 39, page 87, leave out lines 43 and 44.
Amendment 40, page 87, line 45, leave out ‘section 6B’ and insert ‘sections 6B and 6BA’.
Amendment 41, page 88, line 1, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 42, page 88, line 2, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 43, page 88, line 13, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 44, page 88, line 17, at end insert—
‘(5A) A constable may search a person who is the subject of a transit order, and any item in the possession of that person, for any item which that person might use—
(a) to cause physical injury to that person or to any other person; or
(b) to assist that person to escape from detention.
(5B) The power conferred by subsection (5A) does not authorise a constable to require a person to remove any clothing other than an outer coat, jacket, headgear or gloves.
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(5C) The power conferred by subsection (5A) includes power to use reasonable force where necessary.
(5D) A constable searching a person in the exercise of the power conferred by subsection (5A) may seize any item found if the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person searched might use the item —
(a) to cause physical injury to that person or to any other person; or
(b) to assist that person to escape from detention.
(5E) Any item seized from a person under subsection (5D) may be retained while that person is in transit.’.
Amendment 45, page 88, leave out lines 18 to 22 insert—
‘(6) In this section “constable” means—
(a) any person who is a constable in any part of Great Britain or who has, under any enactment (including subsection (4) above), the powers of a constable in any part of Great Britain, or
(b) any person who is a prison officer within the meaning of section 117(1) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.
(7) A person who is a constable by virtue of subsection (6)(a) has, for the purposes of section 6A, this section and section 6BA, all the powers, authority, protection and privileges of a constable in any part of Great Britain in which a person who is the subject of a transit order is for the time being.’.
Amendment 46, page 88, line 22, at end insert—
6BA Transit through different parts of Great Britain
(1) Where the Scottish Ministers issue a transit order and it is proposed that the person who is the subject of the order will be taken to a part of Great Britain other than Scotland whilst in transit, they must notify the Secretary of State.
(2) The Scottish Ministers need not notify the Secretary of State where the Secretary of State has agreed in writing to the transit order.
(3) Unless the Secretary of State agrees in writing to the transit order, that order authorises the detention of the person subject to it in Scotland only.
(4) But where the person escapes or is unlawfully at large, the order also authorises—
(a) the arrest of the person under section 6B(5) in a part of Great Britain other than Scotland, and
(b) the detention of the person in that part by a constable (within the meaning of that section) for the purpose of taking the person to Scotland.
(5) Where the Secretary of State issues a transit order and it is proposed that the person who is the subject of the order will be taken to Scotland whilst in transit, the Secretary of State must notify the Scottish Ministers.
(6) The Secretary of State need not notify the Scottish Ministers where the Scottish Ministers have agreed in writing to the transit order.
(7) Unless the Scottish Ministers agree in writing to the transit order, that order authorises the detention of the person subject to it only in a part of Great Britain other than Scotland.
(8) But where the person escapes or is unlawfully at large, the order also authorises—
(a) the arrest of the person under section 6B(5) in Scotland, and
(b) the detention of the person in Scotland by a constable (within the meaning of that section) for the purpose of taking the person to a part of Great Britain other than Scotland.’.
Amendment 47, page 88, line 34, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
Amendment 48, page 88, line 37, leave out ‘the relevant area’ and insert ‘Great Britain’.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1040
Amendment 49, page 88, line 38, at end insert—
‘(3) In this section “constable” means any person who is a constable in any part of Great Britain or who has, under any enactment (including section 6B(4) above), the powers of a constable in any part of Great Britain.
(4) A person who is a constable by virtue of subsection (3) has for the purposes of this section all the powers, authority, protection and privileges of a constable in the part of Great Britain in which the person mentioned in subsection (2) is for the time being.’.
Amendment 50, page 88, line 38, at end insert—
‘( ) In section 9 of the Repatriation of Prisoners Act 1984 (short title, commencement and extent)—
(a) at the beginning of subsection (3) insert “Subject to subsection (3A),”, and
(b) after that subsection insert—
(3A) Sections 3A and 6A to 6C extend to England and Wales and Scotland only.”’.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 154, page 93, line 41, leave out from beginning to end of line 4 on page 94 and insert—
‘(5) Where a person aged 16 or over is convicted of an offence under this section, the court must impose an appropriate custodial sentence (with or without a fine) unless the court is of the opinion that there are particular circumstances which—
(a) relate to the offence or to the offender, and
(b) would make it unjust to do so in all the circumstances.
(5A) In this section “appropriate custodial sentence” means—
(a) in the case of a person who is aged 18 or over when convicted, a sentence of imprisonment for a term of at least 6 months;
(b) in the case of a person who is aged at least 16 but under 18 when convicted, a detention and training order of at least 4 months.
(5B) In considering whether it is of the opinion mentioned in subsection (5) in the case of a person aged under 18, the court must have regard to its duty under section 44 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.”’.
Amendment 155, page 94, line 10, leave out ‘(5)’ and insert ‘(5A)(a)’.
Amendment 156, page 95, line 1, leave out from beginning to end of line 6 and insert—
‘(7) Where a person aged 16 or over is convicted of an offence under this section, the court must impose an appropriate custodial sentence (with or without a fine) unless the court is of the opinion that there are particular circumstances which—
(a) relate to the offence or to the offender, and
(b) would make it unjust to do so in all the circumstances.
(7A) In this section “appropriate custodial sentence” means—
(a) in the case of a person who is aged 18 or over when convicted, a sentence of imprisonment for a term of at least 6 months;
(b) in the case of a person who is aged at least 16 but under 18 when convicted, a detention and training order of at least 4 months.
(7B) In considering whether it is of the opinion mentioned in subsection (7) in the case of a person aged under 18, the court must have regard to its duty under section 44 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933.”’.
Amendment 157, page 95, line 12, leave out ‘(7)’ and insert ‘(7A)(a)’.—(Mr Blunt.)
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Amendments made: 133, page 96, line 13, leave out ‘or transitional’ and insert ‘transitional, transitory or saving’.
Amendment 134, page 96, line 14, leave out ‘Parts 1 to 3 of’.
Amendment 135, page 96, line 16, leave out from ‘legislation’ to end of line 17.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 51, page 97, line 13, leave out ‘Section 114 extends’ and insert ‘The following provisions extend’.
Amendment 52, page 97, line 13, at end insert ‘—
Amendment 53, page 97, line 17, leave out from ‘32,’ to end of line 18.
Amendment 54, page 97, line 17, after ‘32,’ insert—
‘() section [Northern Ireland: information about financial resources] and Schedule [Northern Ireland: information about financial resources],
Amendment 136, page 97, line 24, at end insert—
‘( ) Subsection (5) does not apply to section [Reasonable force for the purposes of self-defence etc] (which extends to England and Wales only).’.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendment made: 20, page 185, line 12, leave out sub-paragraph (3).—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 158, page 195, line 34, at end insert—
10A In section 100 (offenders under 18: detention and training orders) after subsection (1) insert—
(1A) Subsection (1) applies with the omission of paragraph (b) in the case of an offence the sentence for which falls to be imposed under these provisions—
(a) section 1A of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 (threatening with weapon in public);
(b) section 139AA of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (threatening with article with blade or point or offensive weapon).”’.
Amendment 159, page 196, line 24, leave out ‘1A(5)’ and insert ‘1A(5A)(a)’.
Amendment 160, page 196, line 27, leave out ‘139AA(7)’ and insert ‘139AA(7A)(a)’.
Amendment 161, page 196, line 27, at end insert—
‘(4) In the case of an offence the sentence for which falls to be imposed under a provision mentioned in subsection (5), nothing in that provision prevents the court from imposing any sentence that it considers appropriate after taking into account any matter referred to in subsection (1) of this section.
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(5) The provisions referred to in subsection (4) are—
section 1A(5A)(b) of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953;
section 139AA(7A)(b) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.”’.—(Mr Blunt.)
Amendments made: 139, line 3 after ‘proceedings;’ insert ‘to make provision about referral fees in connection with the provision of legal services;’.
Amendment 140, line 10 at end insert
‘; to create a new offence relating to squatting’.
Amendment 141, line 10 at end insert
‘; and to amend section 76 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008’.—(Mr Blunt.)
6.25 pm
Mr Kenneth Clarke: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
At the conclusion of many hours of copious debate on the Floor of the House and in Committee, I pay tribute to members of the Bill team from my Department, who have been working throughout on this marathon Bill, and to my two colleagues, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) and the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr Blunt) who, I am glad to say, carried the burden of the day in Committee and most of it on Report as well. I am grateful to them all.
It is an enormous Bill representing a major reform of the criminal justice system and the justice system generally. It is overdue and the Government have made a good start on sorting out some of the problems facing the justice system. I shall mention briefly the legal aid reforms, which have been debated again today. They are extremely important. They make substantial savings and I acknowledge that we have had to make some difficult choices.
I am a lawyer and I have many friends who are practising lawyers. When I was given this post, I wondered whether I would retain any friends in the legal profession by the time we got to Christmas. I am glad to say that I have, but some difficult decisions have been taken at the expense of some members of the profession, who have already suffered reductions in their fees as a result of the previous Government’s changes, and have probably had a bigger reduction in their fee income, I concede, than almost any other group in the country. So let us acknowledge that there are people facing consequences as a result of what we have done, but it was much overdue.
We have, as we keep saying, the most expensive legal aid system in the world. It has gone far beyond what could be afforded. The previous Government made repeated attempts to reform it and kept consulting on reforms and making changes. Even then they found, by the end of their period of office, that real-terms spending on legal aid had gone up quite substantially, compared with when they took office.
What we have done is not just a cheese-paring exercise across the whole field of legal aid. We have gone back to first principles and asked what it is essential that the
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taxpayer pays for to assure access to justice on truly important matters for that section of society that must have access to justice in the public interest, so that we can all be assured that people get the protections that they are entitled to under our constitution. That is what we have debated, one by one.
I believe that the package that we have come up with will make substantial savings. As I was saying to the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) a few moments ago, the idea that we are launching some assault on access to justice and depriving people of access to justice is nonsense. We are not affecting the right. There is no change in the Bill to any particular course of action. Legal aid is available, but it is available to the poorest people for those really essential matters that affect their life, liberty, home and so on, and we have got it back under control.
Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): I know that the Secretary of State is aware of my concerns regarding the advice agencies that provide such vital support to the vulnerable, and I know that additional money has been provided for those agencies. May I press him to give us more detail about this so that we can be reassured that those advice agencies, such as my own in Hastings, will be able to continue their good work?
Mr Clarke: Those who can remember Second Reading will know that the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon and I kept stressing that we accept the need to maintain the funding for many voluntary agencies, particularly citizens advice bureaux, which give not only legal advice, but general advice to people suffering from problems of debt, housing and so on, which we all know are bound to get worse in these rather difficult times. A total of £20 million has been allocated to these bodies this year and we are looking ahead at how to continue that support.
I should point out that our legal aid changes will not take effect for a couple of years, so none of those bodies has lost any legal aid funding at the moment. What we are doing is finding money to make up for reductions in grant to those bodies that are largely from local authorities. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd) is about to announce how we will distribute the £20 million. I know that he is in touch with my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd) and expects to be able to make the announcement imminently so that we can get on with that.
I have left the debates on legal aid to the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon because, as everyone has seen, he is a walking expert on the subject. There seemed to be no point in my taking part in debates on amendments and having to turn to him if a particularly difficult question was asked. However, I have been present throughout the debates and listening to how Labour Members have tackled the matter. They seem to have lost all touch with common sense. When in government they were reducing expenditure on legal aid, or trying to and failing. In their manifesto they committed to reducing spending on legal aid, stating:
“we will find greater savings in legal aid.”
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As recently as January this year the leader of the Labour party said, in relation to reductions in legal aid:
“Labour has shown it is ready to make difficult cuts that we believe are necessary for the long term health of our economy.”
As far as we can work out, the various amendments tabled by the Labour party in the course of our debates on the Bill would add £245 million to the legal aid bill, compared with the Government’s proposals.
Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Evidently, some of the amendments we tabled were not reported to the Secretary of State, because we also tabled amendments intended to speed up the collection of fines, on which the Ministry does not have a good record.
Mr Clarke: We are tackling the collection of fines vigorously, but I am afraid that the idea that the Labour party’s amendments on the collection of fines would make any significant contribution to the monstrous hypothetical bill it was running up is ludicrous.
Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab): Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr Clarke: I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman, but I must press on. Other Members wish to speak and I do not want to take up all the time.
I will turn to the sentencing provisions. We have gone through major reforms in sentencing that contain many common-sense measures, which have not been debated much but which are intended to simplify the system and give greater professional discretion in many cases. The biggest controversy has concerned the repeal of indeterminate sentences, which was accepted very readily by most Members yesterday. That is a much overdue reform. The introduction of indeterminate sentences never worked as people intended. It was a major mistake and a major blot on our justice system that would not have survived challenge in either the British courts or in Strasbourg if it had carried on much longer. We have put in place a system of long determinate sentences for the most serious criminals, which I think gives protection.
We have not debated the other difficult area, knife crime, over which there was some controversy. The Government are determined to get the message clearly across to the public that knife crime will not be tolerated. We wish to stop people believing that knife crime will not be punished properly in the criminal justice system. For that reason, we tabled proposals introducing a mandatory sentence of six months for adults who are guilty of threatening with a knife in circumstances where it might cause physical injury, which is a new offence we have created. That is in line with the six months already specified in the sentencing guidelines for that kind of offence, but it makes it clear that that sentence should normally be expected automatically for that offence, unless it would otherwise be unjust to do so.
Amendments were tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) and by the Opposition seeking to extend that proposal to juveniles. I am glad to say that, following discussions with my hon. Friends the Members for Enfield North and for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes)—the latter is a
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Parliamentary Private Secretary and so cannot table amendments—we finally agreed, that as 30-odd Back Benchers supported the amendments, to introduce a mandatory offence for 16 and 17-year-olds. Again, that sounds rather formidable, because I am not very keen on mandatory sentences for juveniles, but the offence is very serious, and it is only for 16 and 17-year-olds and—
Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con): Will my right hon. and learned Friend give way?
Mr Clarke: I will in just a second.
The offence also confirms that the court, at the same time, will have to have regard to the duties under the Children Acts, which mean—
Mr Tom Clarke: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: Point of order, if the Secretary of State will just hold on. Point of order, Mr Tom Clarke.
Mr Tom Clarke: Unfortunately, Mr Speaker, you could not be here earlier, when again, again and again I asked Ministers to give way. Is there something in “Erskine May” which says, “You don’t give way to the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill”?
Mr Speaker: No. It is uncharacteristic of the right hon. Gentleman to be suffering from a persecution complex, and I hope that it will not be repeated. He is just unlucky today.
Mr Kenneth Clarke: I was about to give way to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr Cox), but I have the highest regard for the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke), whom I have known for years, and this is the first time that I have rebuffed him, so I will give way, as he insists. He is obviously getting worried about this.
Mr Clarke: Does the right hon. Gentleman remember what he wished to intervene on?
Mr Tom Clarke: I recall the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s reference to the junior Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), and his walking intelligence and so on. All I have tried to do through my interventions is to secure what non-governmental organisations and aid agencies want to hear regarding amendments 150 and 151, and to find out the Government’s attitude to British and international firms that are involved in abuses overseas.
Mr Clarke:
My hon. Friend the Minister referred to the Trafigura case a moment ago, but we do not believe that our changes to the no win, no fee system will prevent access to justice. Only a few moments ago we heard my hon. Friend point out that, even in the Trafigura case, the millions of pounds paid to the lawyers far exceeded the millions of pounds paid to the claimants. The average citizen of the Ivory Coast got £1,000 out of
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the action that was brought. We are not stopping the actions; we are getting the costs in proportion to the claim. All those disputes about legal aid and no win, no fee are not about access to justice; they are about the profitability of the actions for lawyers.
I am a lawyer, and I have the highest respect for lawyers and no intention of offending the legal profession, but in the lobbying of this House and the upper House we have had an army of lawyers advancing behind a front of women and children—vulnerable claimants who they say would not be represented if they are not paid as much as they are now. I am afraid I do not believe that.
The fact is that we introduced no win, no fee. These actions were brought because my right hon. and noble Friend Lord Mackay insisted on introducing no win, no fee to this country, and the system worked from the time of the Major Government perfectly well. The previous Government were persuaded to make it more profitable by making the changes that they made, but the costs have got out of all proportion to the claim.
Let me turn to knife crime. There is a serious problem in Enfield, and I had discussions with my hon. Friends the Members for Enfield North and for Enfield, Southgate because of that serious problem with knife crime. It exists throughout the country, but it is localised and can be very bad.
Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con) rose—
Mr Clarke: My hon. Friend seeks to intervene. We reached agreement on the amendments that have now been made to the Bill at his instigation and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate.
Nick de Bois: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for allowing this intervention. Does he agree that the important thing about the introduction of the measure to the Bill is that for the first time in youth sentencing services it is clear that, if a 16 or 17-year-old carries a knife and uses it in a threatening and endangering fashion, they will go to jail? Indeed, it sends a very strong message to the courts, so my constituents will rest a little easier when it is passed into law.
Mr Clarke: That is entirely true, and I congratulate my hon. Friend on his advocacy, but we should both point out that we are talking about the minimum sentence. When we look at the nature of the offence we have created, we find that it is a serious knife offence, and many people—adults and juveniles—will be sent away for longer than the minimum that we specify in the Bill. The minimum catches people who might not otherwise have got a custodial sentence. In really serious cases, juveniles should get more than a four-month detention and training order and adults should get more than a six-month sentence, but there will be a spread of seriousness among individual cases. What we have put forward is a mandatory minimum; in the case of juveniles, my hon. Friend and I agree that it is right that the special way in which the courts treat offenders who are under 18 should be applied. That is where we are.
Mr Clarke: I am sorry but I shall not give way because other people want to speak.
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Let me conclude by going back to the Labour party. Obviously, I am familiar with our own proposals but I have been listening to what the Labour party has been putting forward, which tells us a lot about whether that party is ready for government. I have been facing the Labour movement for a very long time now—particularly the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill, with whom I am familiar. I do not know what he thinks is happening to his party because the Opposition’s position on this has been pitched at a section of the tabloid press that I have never heard the Labour party aim at so far as they have been doing. I did not expect that from the shadow Justice Secretary. Let me quote from the BBC’s Politics Show on 31 October 2010—a year ago—when he said that he was “not going to say” that I am being
“soft on crime…because he is asking the right questions about rehabilitation rates”.
More recently, when he gave the Howard League lecture on 17 October 2011, he said:
“Reforming prisons to reduce re-offending ultimately means safer communities up and down the country”.
The Shadow Justice Secretary has made extraordinary proposals in relation to the Bill, the most preposterous of which were about knife crime. He tabled a new clause advocating mandatory sentences for 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15-year-olds. I never expected to see even the most reactionary of Labour Members—even the right hon. Members for Blackburn (Mr Straw) and for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett)—putting forward such a proposition. We cannot estimate how many schoolchildren would have been caught by such measures, but our best estimate is that about 350 would have had to be sent away. We would have had to build secure children’s homes to hold them and all the special provisions under the Children Acts would have been set aside. That was not a serious contribution to the debate, and serious contributions are what we should make.
I think the Bill is balanced. As I have said, it has been attacked from the right and the left, and it will be scrutinised carefully in another place. I think we have started to redress some of the problems that the previous Government left behind. It is the inheritance of Tony Blair, a man whom I admire in many ways. By the time he had finished in office he was getting very keen on reforming public services such as health and education. In my modest opinion, he was very good on health and education by the time he finished, but he had no real interest in law and order and the criminal justice system.
Tony Blair shadowed me when I was Home Secretary and he produced a good soundbite but no policy. He produced the phrase,
“Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime,”
but he did not know what he meant. He had no real interest in the subject and all he did was encourage the right hon. Members for Blackburn and for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough to produce populist stuff that filled the statute book with quite useless criminal justice legislation. This is serious reform to what was caused by that Government, and the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) who shadows me should look at his party’s record. He should not make things worse by going on proposing preposterous things, as he has done in this debate. I advise him to go away and reflect
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on the many hours he has spent here, to reflect on the wisdom of my hon. Friends the two Under-Secretaries and to do better next time.
6.44 pm
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): When the Justice Secretary has been in government for 13 years in a row and has had crime going down by 43% with 7 million fewer victims a year, I will be lectured by him about law and order.
May I begin how the Justice Secretary began, with some thank yous? First, I thank the Front-Bench teams on both sides for their hard work during the Bill’s progress through Parliament. By and large, they have got on reasonably well, and have done a huge amount of hard work on Second Reading, in Committee and on Report. I thank them and their advisers for that. I also thank Back Benchers. Debates on Second Reading, in Committee and on Report have generally been well tempered.
Two days ago, some hon. Members cheered the fact that there were three days on Report. I hope that they now regret being so cheery. Government statements—let us be frank, they were filibustering—caused elements of the Bill to be wholly unscrutinised, including provisions on remand, knife crime, women in prison, conditional fee agreements, and social welfare.
Mr Llwyd: The right hon. Gentleman referred to remand. May I take him on to bail? One of the Under-Secretaries gave an understanding in Committee that there would be an undertaking to deal with appeals against the granting of bail. We were told that if that was not dealt with on Report, it would be dealt with in the other place towards the conclusion of the Bill's scrutiny. When I asked the Minister about that, I was boorishly swatted away. Having been a member of the Public Bill Committee, I had tabled amendments on the matter, as did other hon. Members. The subject deserves better than being slapped down, and we should press for some answers today.
Sadiq Khan: I have been in correspondence with the Justice Secretary and, to be fair, he responded to my letter. I am happy to allow him to intervene to put on the record the assurance that he gave me.
Mr Kenneth Clarke: I was not here during the incident to which the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) referred, but I am sure that he was not swatted away. There was probably anxiety to finish the debate.
I am happy to repeat the undertaking that the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly) gave then and in Committee. We accept that in principle there is a good case for saying that there should be appeals against the allowing of bail in the Crown court. We are working on the details of that, and we propose to table amendments in the House of Lords to meet that point. There is no difference in this case, and I have already written to say what we are striving to do. We intend to table an amendment to meet the wishes of the right hon. Members for Dwyfor Meirionnydd and for Tooting, and some hon. Members on the Government Benches.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1049
Sadiq Khan: I thank the Justice Secretary for his clarification. I hope that the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd is reassured. However, that illustrates the problem with the way in which the Bill has been dealt with. There have been three Green Papers, consultation, Second Reading and a long Committee stage upstairs, yet at the 11th hour the Government have tabled new clauses at the last possible moment which have not been subjected to the proper due processes that have existed in the House for generations, and for good reason. The way in which the Bill has been drafted, managed and taken through the House has been shambolic. The Bill is bad for the most vulnerable in society; it is bad for the victims of crime; it is bad for reforming offenders; and it is bad for the safety of our communities. That is why we oppose it, and will vote against giving it a Third Reading.
If the Bill remains unchanged by the other place, it will lead to the dismantling of legal aid, which has been a critical part of the post-war welfare state. Some 600,000 or 700,000 people in England and Wales, depending on whose figures are used, will no longer be able to secure legal aid. It is being dismantled in a way that falls disproportionately on those most in need, at a time when they need it most. That is why so many people are furious at the proposals.
I am less worried about the Justice Secretary losing friends; I am more worried about those who need justice not getting it. We and others have offered alternative savings in the legal aid budget, but the Government have dismissed the alternatives and have pushed ahead with slashing social welfare law: debt advice, housing advice, welfare benefits advice and employment advice. None of those who provide that advice are milking the gravy train and making huge sums of money.
Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): Does my right hon. Friend share my touch of cynicism about the impact of the legal aid cuts on social welfare and welfare benefits, given that the people who are represented and receive the support of the legal aid system in order to be represented in the appeals system have a significantly higher chance of winning their appeals? If they do not have that level of representation, there will be fewer appeals, which will have the happy effect for the Government of people not receiving the benefits to which they are entitled.
Sadiq Khan: My hon. Friend raises a very good point, which is about inequality of arms. These are some of the most vulnerable people who, with a bit of advice early on, will find that their quality of life is improved; and all the evidence suggests that it saves the taxpayer money as well. Huge parts of the country will be devoid of the resources required to access justice because law centres, citizens advice bureaux and small high street solicitors will close down. We will have, I am afraid, advice deserts around the country.
But it does not stop there. In a further effort to save costs, the definition of “domestic violence” is being changed, which will lead to between 25,000 and 30,000 women who are the victims of domestic violence being denied legal aid. That could mean that vulnerable women and children who are the victims of domestic violence will continue to suffer as a direct consequence of the Bill.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1050
Another substantive objection to the Bill is the Government’s cherry-picking of Sir Rupert Jackson’s proposals on civil litigation. That will create an obstacle to those who rely on no win, no fee cases to challenge some of the powerful in our society. The Government have even ignored the protestations of those involved in high-profile cases, such as the family of Milly Dowler. Only this morning, on the “Today” programme, we heard the calmness with which Christopher Jefferies articulated how he benefited from a conditional fee agreement in pursuing claims against national newspapers—an option that will not be available to further victims of wrongdoing if this Bill is passed, because there will be nobody left to advise them.
The Government’s policy on sentencing is an utter mess. Despite their claims, it does not bring clarity to the system, it is not based on common sense, and it will not increase public confidence. Totally abolishing indeterminate sentences takes away judges’ power to keep in custody the serious and violent offenders who put society most at risk by reoffending. These proposals in no way fill the gap left by the removal of indeterminate sentences. All this has been done in 73 minutes during the course of the past three days. The Justice Secretary’s policies on sentencing have been startlingly inconsistent over the past 12 months. Let us not forget that he began by saying that he had a target to reduce the prison population: first, the figure was 6,500; then it was 3,500; and then it was 3,000—and this week he has published an impact assessment giving the figure of 2,600.
I cannot end without dealing with the Liberal Democrats. They speak sanctimoniously from their Benches and they brief sympathetic newspapers and communities that they will stand up to this Conservative Government, but when it comes to pushing their amendments to a vote, they withdraw them on the basis of meaningless assurances or simply vote with the Conservative Government. They should be ashamed.
We will vote against giving this Bill a Third Reading. It is a shoddy Bill, and I sincerely hope that the other place is able to carry out major surgery on it.
6.52 pm
Mr Burrowes: As we look forward to Christmas and see today the Third Reading of a criminal justice Bill, I am reminded of previous Government Bills that ended up as Christmas tree Bills with baubles being hung on them at any given opportunity as they went through Parliament. I am sure that as this Bill goes to the other place, Ministers will want to ensure that further baubles are not hung on it in the form of extra pieces of law that take the fancy of noble Lords, as well as any little elves.
I am particularly grateful for two important baubles in clauses 113 and 114—the significant victory for victims of crime concerning knife crime and serious injury by dangerous driving. One could look at the bottom of those provisions and see “Made in Enfield” on them. Six years ago, the Galli-Atkinson family in my constituency came to me after the sad loss of their daughter, who was the victim of a road crash in 1997. They told me about the impact on them of losing their loved one through the actions of a dangerous driver. They had campaigned vigorously for changes in dangerous driving legislation and increases in penalties, but when they came to me
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1051
there was unfinished business with a gap in legislation. That led to my tabling an amendment in 2006 to try to plug that gap by ensuring that there is a specific offence of serious injury by dangerous driving, and that is now in the Bill.
I am sure that the whole House welcomes the fact that we now have a maximum sentence of five years for such offences. That deals with issues such as the very recent incident involving Rachel Jones, who is aged 13. She was crossing a road when she was hit by a car driven dangerously at 98 mph by Carl Smith, who was unlicensed and drunk—an all too familiar story, sadly, across this country. Rachel was left with severe brain damage, and she will be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. She has no movement in the right side of her body. Her mum, Sheri Ozdemir, described Smith’s two-year jail sentence as “a joke”. Thanks to the Bill, there need be no more jokes like that; such offences will be taken seriously and will attract a five-year sentence.
Clause 114 deals with knife crime. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) for championing this issue locally and nationally, and raising awareness in Enfield and elsewhere of the prevalence of knife crime—
Mr Burrowes: I was talking about knife crime, but I also pay tribute to the work done by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) on injury caused by dangerous driving. He made his case very well in Committee, and I recognise my omission.
Knife crime is a real issue; I have seen many cases going through the youth courts. Sadly, there seems to have been a blind spot when it comes to sentencing, however. There has not been uniform enforcement of the law in this area, and there is a need to plug that gap. Under clause 114, anyone carrying a knife who is threatening and endangering life is likely to go to prison. If they are 16 or over, they will have to go to prison unless there are exceptional circumstances. Yes, we must pay due regard to the circumstances of young people, but the intention of the clause is that a custody threshold will have been reached. That has been welcomed in Enfield and across the country.
The Bill is good news for the victims of knife crime and of dangerous driving. The duties in the Bill relating to compensation are now going to be systemic, and that is important to the victims of crime. Prisoners will need to consider their victims as they serve their sentences; when they earn money, it will go into a victims’ fund. We will also at last see an open door to businesses, ensuring that prisons will work. The prisons Minister joined me in celebrating the 2,000th graduate from the National Grid young offender programme. Those people are now getting into real work and getting out of crime. Their reoffending rate is a very low percentage, compared with the national average. The Bill opens up the way for projects such as those, and many more. On prisons, we want to say that we are not locking out the community; we are open for business.
This is a reforming Bill; it does not simply seek to introduce more legislation without due regard. As we look to the new year, I want there to be a resolution that
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1052
we shall not be coming back to the House next year with another piece of criminal justice legislation. I commend the sentencing part of the Bill to the House.
6.57 pm
Chris Bryant: One of the most important things that the House can ever afford to the citizens of this country is equal and fair access to justice. Notwithstanding the remarks of the Lord Chancellor, I believe that the Bill will make it more difficult for my constituents to have access to justice.
Tom Brake: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Chris Bryant: I will not, if the right hon. Gentleman does not mind.
I shall not go into the issue of legal aid, but I want to speak briefly about conditional fee agreements. The Lord Chancellor was absolutely right to say that it was a Conservative Government who introduced them, and they were right to do so. In privacy and defamation cases, the awards are for the most part very small. In privacy cases, they are universally small. No privacy case has ever involved an award of more than £60,000, yet such cases cost many hundreds of thousands of pounds to take to court. Similarly, the vast majority of awards in defamation cases come in at less than £50,000. A few get up to £100,000, and of course prominence is given in the press to the much bigger ones.
I am sure that it is not the Lord Chancellor’s intention, but the danger in the Government’s proposals is that lawyers will simply not be able to take on such cases. Yes, they might take on cases such as the Dowlers or Christopher Jefferies, because they are open and shut cases, but in the vast majority of the cases relating to phone hacking, people are already terrified of taking an action because they do not want to have to go through the whole business of having their privacy re-explored by the national newspapers and in court. Those people will have no opportunity in the future. I should tell the House that I myself have used a conditional fee agreement, and that if it were not for lawyers being prepared to act on that basis, there is no way that the whole phone hacking scandal would have been exposed.
Question put, That the Bill be now read a Third time.
The House divided:
Ayes 306, Noes 228.
[6.59 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Mr Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Graham, Richard
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, Mr Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Patrick
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Rogerson, Dan
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Mr Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Sturdy, Julian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
James Duddridge and
Mark Hunter
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
David, Mr Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leech, Mr John
Leslie, Chris
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacShane, rh Mr Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh David
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruddock, rh Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Ward, Mr David
Watson, Mr Tom
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Graham Jones and
Mr David Hamilton
Question accordingly agreed to.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1053
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1054
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1055
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1056
Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.
Business without Debate
Delegated Legislation
Mr Speaker: With the leave of the House, we shall take motions 3 to 8 together.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
That the draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax Enforcement (Armenia) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 14 September, be approved.
That the draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax Enforcement (China) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 14 September, be approved.
That the draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax Enforcement (Ethiopia) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 14 September, be approved.
That the draft Double Taxation Relief (Aircraft Crew) (Brazil) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 14 September, be approved.
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1057
That the draft Double Taxation Relief and International Tax Enforcement (Hungary) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 10 October, be approved.
That the draft London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (Advertising and Trading) (England) Regulations 2011, which were laid before this House on 10 October, be approved.—(Stephen Crabb.)
Business of the House
That, at the sitting on Wednesday 9 November, paragraph (2) of Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments) shall apply to the Motions in the name of Edward Miliband as if the day were an Opposition Day; proceedings on the Motions may continue, though opposed, until the moment of interruption and shall then lapse if not previously disposed of; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.—(Stephen Crabb.)
2 Nov 2011 : Column 1058
University Technical Colleges
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Stephen Crabb.)
7.13 pm
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): I am incredibly grateful for this debate. I spoke about apprenticeships and vocational training in my maiden speech, and have campaigned regularly since joining the House last year for apprenticeships and apprenticeship rights. I have now worked for many months behind the scenes with Harlow college, Anglia Ruskin university and employers in my constituency to apply for a university technical school in Harlow, which I will talk more about later.
Although universal technology colleges have not yet received the same media attention as free schools and the huge expansion of the academy programme, they are an equally profound reform of our school system. They are hugely popular, and something that we should think about in their own right.
I want to make three points. First, for decades we allowed vocational education to decline. Secondly, for growth, skills and jobs, UTCs represent the reform that we need. Thirdly, the results are positive, and we should support a massive roll-out of UTCs around the United Kingdom. When the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) called the general election in 2010, there were nearly 1 million young people unemployed. The same is broadly true today. However, youth unemployment is not a recent crisis. Figures from the Department for Work and Pensions show that it has grown steadily worse and worse over the past 10 years. In Essex, in particular, nearly 4,000 young people are not in employment, education or training. My constituency is one of the worst affected towns. We have allowed our skills base and vocational education to decline.
In the past 10 years in Austria and Germany, one in four businesses offered apprenticeships to young people, but in England that figure was just one in 10.
Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): I am listening with great sympathy to what my hon. Friend says about his constituency, because in my area of Medway we have had a similar problem with the closure of the dockyard 25 years ago. We lost an enormous employer that had trained hundreds and thousands of apprentices, so for us, UTCs would provide a new opportunity to develop in that area. With the Royal School of Military Engineering and MidKent college, there is a real partnership approach. I look forward to learning—
Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman is developing a most interesting argument, but I want to hear Mr Halfon.
Robert Halfon: I agree with my hon. Friend, and I think that my remarks later will address some of his points.
Thanks largely to my hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, and the Minister of State, Department for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb), the Government have increased the number of apprentices to a record level this year—up
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50% to 442,700, with increases at all levels and age groups. However, we are starting from a low base. In 2009 there were about 11 apprentices for every 1,000 workers. In France that figure was 17, in Austria 33, in Australia 39, and in Germany 40. In 2009 our young people were four times worse off for apprenticeships than young people in Germany.
Considering that the Berlin wall fell only 20 years ago, that is deeply shocking and shows just how uncompetitive the UK economy has become. For years Germany reaped the benefits of its skills policy and a culture that valued apprentices and gave prestige to vocational learning. Germany built up its manufacturing and high-tech industry while we lost out, not only under the previous Government but, honestly, during the 1990s. I agree with the analysis of Lord Baker, who was one of our finest Education Secretaries and was, in many ways, the forefather of the UTC movement, along with the late Ron Dearing. Lord Baker wrote in the Yorkshire Post in 2008:
“One thing our country has missed out on is good vocational schools. Several attempts have been made since the 1870s, but they have generally fallen by the wayside. The 1944 Butler Education Act established three types of school—grammar, secondary modern and technical, but the first to disappear was the technical school as it had become”—
“‘infra-dig’. Ironically, this English pattern was adopted by Germany in 1945 and became very successful: their youngsters who attend technical schools acquire skills in engineering, construction, manufacturing and design. Germany’s technical schools today have more applicants than their grammar schools and Germany produces several times the number of qualified technicians than the UK.”
We simply cannot afford to keep producing generation after generation of rootless university graduates with purely academic qualifications who lack the skills that industry needs.
What are UTCs, and why will they succeed where other attempts have failed? As Lords Baker and Adonis said when first proposing the UTC model, we need a vocational route that is rigorous, attractive and as prestigious as the best academic routes. That simply does not exist in our current schools system. As the Prime Minister put it recently, the expansion of UTCs will be
“the next great poverty-busting structural change we need…offering first-class technical skills to those turned off by purely academic study.”
However, the key reform is that major local employers, especially in manufacturing and industry, will help to write the curriculum, which has never been tried before. As the recent schools White Paper said:
“Pupils at the JCB Academy in…Staffordshire, will study a curriculum designed to produce the engineers and business leaders of the future…They will complete engineering tasks that have been set by JCB and other Academy partners including Rolls-Royce, Toyota and Network Rail.”
Early results are positive. They prove that UTCs are an instrument of social justice, as well as economic efficiency. At the JCB academy, for example, students wear business suits. There are reports that truancy has been reduced significantly and GCSE results, particularly in the core subjects of English and Maths, have massively improved.
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As Lord Baker said a few weeks ago,
“10,000 students are now set to attend University Technical Colleges by 2015”.
That means 10,000 fewer youngsters on the dole, and 10,000 more students learning the high-tech skills of the future to support British industry, manufacturing, and growth.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): We are fortunate in Northern Ireland to have technical colleges—the South Eastern Regional college campus in Newtownards is an example—that give young people exactly what the hon. Gentleman is referring to: an opportunity to train, build their confidence and get a job outside, or be directed towards one. I encourage him to look up the South Eastern Regional college website to see exactly what he hopes to achieve in action.
Robert Halfon: I would be delighted to look at that website, and I would like to study it more, because it is good to see successful examples in action.
So far, 18 new UTCs have received support from the Education Secretary, with 13 announced last month, and 130 companies are supporting them, which I think is a record in industrial investment. For the past three years the Baker Dearing Educational Trust has worked with the Department for Education, the private sector, universities and further education colleges to build the network. The Chancellor has doubled the funding for UTCs and found money for at least 24. The Opposition always go on about cuts and the legacy of youth unemployment—left by the last Government, as I have mentioned—but we are talking about a concrete investment of at least £150 million, with more funds levered in from the private sector, to tackle that very issue. This is not small beer.
Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con): I agree with the thrust of everything that my hon. Friend is saying, so is it not disappointing that at least one union leader in the education sector has come out against UTCs? Is that not incredible?
Robert Halfon: My hon. Friend is almost a mind reader, because I was about to say that it is disappointing that, not so long ago, John Bangs of the National Union of Teachers said of UTCs:
“There is a real fear about a move towards selection by division, selection by direction and selection by assumption, with these routes being mapped out for kids for evermore”
That is the mindset of the left, which we have to consign to the dustbin, because UTCs will create opportunity and social justice for everyone. He is also wrong, because there are no tests to enter a UTC at 14: they are inclusive, not exclusive. To be fair, it is no accident that the Baker Dearing Educational Trust is a cross-party project that is strongly supported by Lord Adonis—who, although he is from the other side of the fence, is someone I admire greatly. The chief executive officer of the Baker Dearing Educational Trust, Peter Mitchell, was a head teacher for 18 years in Walsall and Staffordshire. He turned round a failing school and was mentioned twice in the chief inspector’s report as “outstanding”. I believe that the UTC movement should unite the House, not divide it.
In conclusion, I want to talk briefly about Harlow’s bid for a UTC, which I mentioned at the beginning of my speech. Harlow is a new town. It was built after the
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second world war, with a vision to change people’s lives and create jobs and growth, but its potential is still unfulfilled. School results have risen sharply over the past 10 years. Most secondary schools now perform around the national average, and this year two secondary schools became academies. I am sure that the Minister will have watched the excellent recent television programme about Passmores school.
Harlow college is now widely recognised as one of the best further education colleges in the country, with pass rates exceeding 99.5%. Anglia Ruskin university opened a campus in the town this term that now has approximately 200 students studying for degrees. Wherever I go in Harlow, parents are delighted with the idea of a new apprentice school, which is exactly what it is, and they have no ideological objections. In fact, the Harlow bid for a UTC is not opposed by the local state schools. Harlow council and Essex county council have said that they support UTCs, and would like to see a UTC in Harlow.
In the first round, we assembled a strong bid, but found out only very late in the process that Harlow was to benefit from an enterprise zone, specialising in bio-tech and medical technology. In his feedback, Lord Hill was very fair and made the point that we should now reflect the new enterprise zone in our bid. That was the right decision; it is worth taking the time to get the bid right.
The Harlow partners are responding to that feedback. Anglia Ruskin is broadening its university courses, to meet the needs of the emerging “MedTech” enterprise zone, with firms like Bupa Home Healthcare. Harlow council is delivering the proposed “MedTech” campus—a specialised industrial estate, which will employ the highly skilled technicians that a UTC provides. Harlow already has several biotech and pharmaceutical firms, such as GlaxoSmithKlein, and is in the London-Cambridge science corridor. We have several strong local hospitals—primarily Princess Alexandra hospital and the Rivers private hospital in Sawbridgeworth. The Health Protection Agency is considering a move to Harlow, partly because of its own financial position, and partly because of the enterprise zone. I hope that in due course it too will have a need for medical technicians and engineers. In the second wave of UTC applications we hope to include medical technology as one of the Harlow specialisms, and to submit an even stronger bid. I hope that the Minister was listening very carefully to that last statement.
If there is one thing that I would urge the Minister to do, it would be to go much further and much faster. As the Baker Dearing Educational Trust has said:
“The Government has committed to funding 24 UTCs. But we hope to see 100 within five years.”
We know that public spending is constrained, but UTCs offer us the chance to get back to the great vision of Rab Butler, who sought to establish a high-quality technical education in Britain for the first time. It is worth quoting what Rab Butler said in this very House about his Bill in 1944:
“It is very wrong that in so many parts of England, particularly in industrial areas, which I have visited myself, that decades have been allowed to elapse before the technical development necessary for education in those areas has come to anything at all. There are many towns and cities I have been to in which the technical college has always been the mirage in the distance across the other side of the desert. We cannot allow that state of affairs to go on, and that is why we insist that there should be a proper development of technical education...Compared to our competitors, friends
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and enemies, we shall…depend more than anything else on the skill of our people...therefore…we must concentrate upon producing the most highly-skilled technologists the world can show.”—[
Official Report
, 23 March 1944; Vol. 398, c. 1086.]
Exactly the same is true today.
It is not enough just to support and fund UTCs; we have to evangelise about them. Just the other week the statement on UTCs was tacked on to the end of the statement on free schools at the end of a long day—just after the former Defence Secretary had also addressed the House. UTCs, however, are not just an extension of free schools; they will transform our skills base and the lives of young people, and they will be a conveyor belt to professional apprenticeships. They are the phase 1 of an apprentice revolution in Britain and the reaction from the public—parents, students and others—has been unbelievably positive. That is why they have to be centre-stage, not backstage. When the second round is announced next year—including Harlow, I hope—I would like UTCs to get a separate statement in their own right, showing that they are a forceful answer to the youth unemployment that we have inherited. They will then prove that the apprenticeships are no longer second class, and are now first class.
I hope that, ultimately, every British student will be able to say—just as my hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning said yesterday at a UTC reception in the House—“I only became an academic because I wasn’t clever enough to be practical.”
7.30 pm
Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing this important debate, and thank him for encouraging me to contribute to it, albeit very briefly. I am a great admirer of the work that he has done to promote education, both in the House and in his constituency. In the short time for which he has been a Member of Parliament, he has made an enormous contribution to education and to education debates.
Yesterday I was fortunate enough to host a reception on the House of Commons Terrace for university technical colleges—which was also attended by my hon. Friend—together with Lord Baker of Dorking, who, as my hon. Friend said, is chairman of the Baker Dearing Educational Trust, and is a passionate advocate of UTCs. That reception was instructive. It was attended by people from all over the country, from the great and the good to the UTC community and the many who want to be members of that community—and it was clear from the attendance at that reception that very many people want to join it. It was also highly informative to hear so many positive stories from those who have been involved in the UTCs that have been set up, and to learn how well the schools are doing.
It was said at the reception that the UTCs had become a movement. I have the impression that there is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to harness the enormous energy and good will towards UTCs that emanate from the Government, universities, further education colleges and, in particular, private businesses. In many ways, that is not surprising, because the enthusiasm spans the political divide. In most respects, UTCs have secured a cross-party consensus. Both Lord Baker and Lord Adonis have, in different ways, put their fingerprints on their
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creation. Just to complete the all-party celebration, we have a coalition Government who are expanding the new schools and delivering a big increase in their number. I am delighted to say that my constituency will gain a UTC, and that large numbers of private businesses are supporting it. The right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field)—I hope he does not mind my mentioning this—told me that he had taken Lord Baker to his constituency to lobby him for the creation of a new UTC.
As I have said, this is very much a cross-party movement, and I hope that it will continue to be so. Let me explain why. I think all parties clearly understand that Britain lags behind some of our European neighbours in its approach to technical education. My hon. Friend mentioned Germany—a country which, as a European industrial powerhouse, boasts a long history of taking its technical education seriously. Consequently, the Germans have benefited. Germany is now an incredibly successful exporter as a result of its continued investment in its technical skills base.
UTCs offer our country a real opportunity to plug a gap, to catch up and to take the next step on a journey towards supporting, and indeed creating, a more technically based economy and industry. That journey has been damagingly slow for the UK. Rab Butler’s Education Act 1944 recognised secondary technical schools under the tripartite system, but there was little progress until Lord Baker’s city technology college scheme in the 1980s. In fact, it has taken more than 60 years for this whole strategy to reach the point of lift-off.
Technical education has often not been taken seriously, and has frequently been recorded as secondary to the academic route. Well, we can finally put that right, and in so doing, plug a skills shortage and unlock the boundless potential of thousands of young people in this country whose gifts just happen to lie in the technical rather than the academic area.
7.34 pm
The Minister of State, Department for Education (Mr Nick Gibb): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing this debate. Both he and my hon. Friend the Member for Reading East (Mr Wilson) are well-informed and passionate promoters of education in their constituencies and throughout the country. I also listened intently to the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless), in which he extolled the importance of university technical colleges.
UTCs are an innovative and important part of our school reforms. Through new academies for 14 to 19-year-olds, we are for the first time providing opportunities for school pupils to develop the technical knowledge and expertise that employers demand and our economy needs. UTCs offer pupils high-quality technical and vocational education and clear progression routes at 19 into either higher or further education, or work or apprenticeships.
As Members will know, UTCs sit alongside free schools and academies at the heart of our ambitious reform of the school system. They aim to drive up educational attainment for all pupils and students, regardless
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of their background, and to improve our performance in relation to the highest-performing systems in the world. UTCs offer choice to parents and pupils, in particular those best suited to a more technical approach to education. They also provide competition to other schools, thus encouraging them to raise their game.
UTCs specialise in subjects that need modern, technical, industry-standard equipment, such as engineering, construction, product design and life sciences. These disciplines are taught alongside business and ICT. Students also integrate academic study with practical education, and so study the core GCSEs alongside technical qualifications, thus covering the basics of English, mathematics, science and often a language and one of the humanities.
UTCs are sponsored by a local university, employers and, in most cases, a further education college with strengths in the UTC’s specialist subject areas. That helps to ensure aspirational pathways to higher education, as well as access to opportunities within industry. UTCs are unique in that they develop their education around the needs of local employers and industry. Crucially, the UTC specialisms and the curriculum are designed by the university and employer sponsors. UTCs link local partners into the design and delivery of the education, and also provide mentoring and meaningful work experience for pupils. UTCs have much the same freedoms as free schools and academies. That allows them to be innovative, such as by choosing to employ engineers with an industry background alongside qualified teachers, by developing and delivering innovative projects for pupils, and by using an extended school day of 8.30 am to 5.30 pm and a longer school year of 40 weeks to prepare students for the world of work.
Two UTCs are already open: the JCB academy in Staffordshire, and the Black Country UTC in Walsall. Thanks to the leadership shown by Lords Baker and Adonis, as well as the late Lord Dearing, coupled with the vision of Sir Anthony Bamford of JCB, the first UTC opened its doors in September last year. It specialises in engineering and business. Its belief is that no matter how good an engineer someone is, if they cannot do business too, they will not survive. That is the reality of manufacturing in the global economy, and we must prepare our school leavers to join it if they are to compete—and succeed—in the years ahead.
The JCB academy is delivering its curriculum in partnership with a range of national and local employers. For instance, Rolls-Royce has set students the challenge of designing and manufacturing a small piston pump. This involves designing and manufacturing a specific rig, modelling in 3D animation software, producing drawings and then visiting the factory to see how the real ones are made. The whole project has allowed pupils to see their work from initiation to design and then on to delivery, with Rolls-Royce engineering apprentices helping pupils throughout. Senior Rolls-Royce staff presented to the pupils how a jet engine works and the realities of planning in local and international businesses. The benefits to pupils are clear: they get top-quality technical education. The benefits for Rolls-Royce are also undeniable. It gets the continuing professional development of engineers, graduates and apprentices; an increased pupil awareness of Rolls-Royce as an employer; and a role in helping to shape education in the region. This is leading the way in how employers are now getting involved in UTCs up and down the country.
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The second UTC that opened earlier this term is now providing similar opportunities for its pupils in one of the most deprived areas of the black country. There, the partnership between Siemens, Walsall college and the university of Wolverhampton is reinvigorating the black country’s engineering heritage. It is, of course, early days, with one school open for just half a term and one open for just a year and a half, but already we are beginning to see the effect of the approach, and it is impressive. The JCB academy reports exemplary behaviour and attendance, as pupils are engaged in their lessons. That positive impact is found not just in the technical subjects, as standards of English and maths look to be on the rise as well. We look forward to hearing their results next summer.
On 10 October, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced the next wave of UTCs due to open in 2012 and 2013 across the country. Between them, they will provide a new generation of school leavers with the technical expertise that industry demands. More than 130 major national and local employers were involved in developing these successful projects—that is a truly immense contribution from industry in our education system. These UTCs will join the two that are already open and three projects in Hackney, Aston and Greenwich that were previously approved. The new projects ensure there will now be UTCs in every region. Russell group
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universities are joining companies such as Rolls-Royce, Procter & Gamble and BlackBerry, and outstanding colleges and academies. The first of these new UTCs will open at the start of the next academic year and the rest will open the following year.
My hon. Friends and other hon. Members will be aware of the huge interest in one of these new UTCs in particular—the Silverstone academy. It will be based within the grounds of the 800 acres of the Silverstone circuit, it will cater for 540 pupils when at full capacity and it will specialise principally in high-performance engineering and motorsport. It is sponsored by Tresham college of further and higher education, the university of Northampton and Silverstone Circuits Ltd, and it is due to open in September 2013. It will be a unique establishment that will allow students to work alongside nationally and internationally renowned engineering businesses already located at the circuit. It will provide opportunities for students to access work experience and to progress on to a wide and diverse range of job opportunities or further and higher education. The UTC expects significant demand from pupils; indeed, it has already received inquiries and that is before—
7.43 pm
House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order No. 9(7)).