Astronomy and Particle Physics

Supplementary written evidence from Professor George Efstathiou, Director, Kavli Institute for Cosmology, Cambridge (APP 03a)

DEAR MR MILLER

I HAVE JUST LISTENED TO YOUR SESSION TODAY AND THOUGHT THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO SEE THE LETTER THAT I SENT ADRIAN SMITH CONCERNING THE COMPOSITION OF STFC COUNCIL. THE APPENDIX LISTS THE COMPOSITION OF SEVERAL OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS AS OF JULY 2010. I THINK YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE IS A LARGE DIFFERENCE IN THE COMPOSITION OF STFC COMPARED TO THE OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS. STFC HAS ONLY ONE RESEARCH ACADEMIC IN PARTICLE PHYSICS (JAMES STERLING) AND ONLY ONE RESEARCH ACADEMIC IN ASTRONOMY (MARTIN BARSTOW).

I CANNOT SEE HOW ADRIAN SMITH CAN SAY THAT THE COMPOSITION OF STFC IS SIMILAR TO THAT OF OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS.

YOURS SINCERELY

GEORGE EFSTATHIOU

Professor of Astrophysics

Director Kavli Institute for Cosmology

Cambridge

16 MARCH 2011

ANNEX

LETTER FROM PROFESSOR GEORGE EFSTATHIOU FRS, DIRECTOR, KAVLI INSTITUTE FOR COSMOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE TO PROFESSOR ADRIAN SMITH FRS, DEPARTMENT FOR BUSINESS INNOVATION AND SKILLS

DEAR PROFESSOR SMITH

EARLIER THIS MONTH A GROUP OF SENIOR ACADEMICS, INCLUDING MYSELF, SUBMITTED A PETITION TO

PROFESSOR MICHAEL STERLING SIGNED BY NEARLY 1000 SCIENTISTS EXPRESSING A LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN

THE CEO OF STFC. IN FACT, THERE WAS WIDESPREAD LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN STFC IN 2008. HOWEVER, THE ACADEMIC COMMUNITY DID NOT EXPRESS THIS IN THE FORM OF A PETITION IN THE HOPE THAT THE WAKEHAM REVIEW AND THE RCUK STRUCTURAL REVIEW OF STFC WOULD LEAD TO CHANGES THAT MIGHT HELP TO RESTORE SOME CONFIDENCE.

OUR GROUP HAS MET WITH PROFESSOR STERLING TWICE AND WE HAVE HAD SOME CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSIONS. HOWEVER, WE HAVE REACHED AN IMPASSE ON ASPECTS OF THE GOVERNANCE OF STFC, PARTICULARLY ON THE COMPOSITION OF STFC COUNCIL, WHICH I BELIEVE IS A CRITICAL ISSUE.

THE COMPOSITION OF STFC COUNCIL IS RADICALLY DIFFERENT TO THE COMPOSITION OF THE OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS. THE COMPOSITION OF STFC COUNCIL WAS FLAGGED AS A MAJOR ISSUE IN THE 2008 SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY SELECT COMMITTEE REPORT AND BY THE WAKEHAM REVIEW. I QUOTE FROM THE WAKEHAM REVIEW:

‘THE PANEL WAS IMMEDIATELY DRAWN TO THE DIFFERENT GOVERNANCE STRUCTURE THAT EXISTS IN STFC IN COMPARISON WITH OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS, NOTABLY A REDUCED COUNCIL MEMBERSHIP OF 10 INDIVIDUALS, FOUR OF WHOM ARE NOT UNIVERSITY-BASED ACADEMICS, AND A FURTHER THREE OF WHOM ARE FROM THE STFC EXECUTIVE. THE PANEL WAS TOLD BY STFC THAT THIS DIFFERENT STRUCTURE WAS DELIBERATELY SELECTED TO DEAL WITH THE MULTIPLE PURPOSES ASSIGNED TO STFC. THE PROVISION AND MAINTENANCE OF LARGE SCALE FACILITIES FOR SCIENCE IN THE UK AND ELSEWHERE, THE PROVISION OF GRANT FUNDING FOR THREE SUB-DISCIPLINES OF PHYSICS AND THE PLANNING, OPERATION AND DEVELOPMENT OF A (SIC) SCIENCE AND INNOVATION CAMPUSES AT DARESBURY AND HARWELL. ITS SMALL SIZE WAS DESIGNED BY DIUS TO MAKE IT DYNAMIC AND TO FACILITATE REGULAR MEETINGS. HOWEVER, WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS, WHICH HAVE COUNCILS MADE UP OF APPROXIMATELY 11 TO 17 MEMBERS REPRESENTING BROAD SCIENTIFIC INTERESTS FROM THE COMMUNITY OPERATING AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, STFC DOES STAND OUT FOR THE RELATIVE LACK OF MEMBERS OF THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. THE STRUCTURE HAS NOT BEST SERVED THE COMMUNITY IN SEVERAL BRANCHES OF SCIENCE WHOSE INPUT IS ONE LEVEL BELOW COUNCIL. THE PANEL THEREFORE RECOMMENDS THAT THE DIUS SHOULD BROADEN THE MEMBERSHIP OF STFC COUNCIL TO INCLUDE MORE STAKEHOLDERS IN THE SCIENCE ACTIVITY, AND THAT THE BALANCE BETWEEN EXECUTIVE PRESENCE AND NON-EXECUTIVE OVERSIGHT SHOULD BE REDRESSED. IT IS ARGUED THAT THIS ADJUSTMENT CAN BE MADE WITHOUT DETRACTING FROM THE EXECUTIVE ACTIVITY IN DEVELOPING THE SCIENCE AND INNOVATION CAMPUSES.

THE PANEL RECOMMENDS TO DIUS THAT THE MEMBERSHIP OF STFC’S COUNCIL BE BROADENED TO INCLUDE MORE OF THE STAKEHOLDERS IN THE SCIENCE ACTIVITY AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, AND TO REDRESS THE BALANCE BETWEEN EXECUTIVE PRESENCE AND NON-EXECUTIVE OVERSIGHT.’

AND THE RCUK RESPONSE TO THIS RECOMMENDATION (OCTOBER 2008):

‘DIUS ACCEPTS THIS RECOMMENDATION. DETAILS OF AN OPEN COMPETITION TO RECRUIT TWO ADDITIONAL SCIENTISTS AS NON-EXECUTIVE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL (THE MAXIMUM PERMITTED BY STFC’S ROYAL CHARTER) WILL BE PUBLISHED SHORTLY.’

AND FROM THE 2008 GRANT/HAZELL ORGANISATIONAL REVIEW OF STFC:

‘22. GOVERNANCE ISSUES WITHIN THE EXECUTIVE SEEM TO BE FURTHER COMPOUNDED BY EVIDENCE OF A LACK OF SHARED UNDERSTANDING WITHIN THE TOP TEAM CONCERNING THE ROLE OF COUNCIL. IN OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH SENIOR STAFF FROM THE STFC EXECUTIVE THE PERCEIVED ROLE OF COUNCIL WAS ARTICULATED TO THE PANEL IN TERMS THAT RANGED FROM THE PROBITY AND OVERSIGHT ROLE OF A ‘BOARD OF TRUSTEES’ TO THE STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP ROLE OF A ‘BOARD OF DIRECTORS’. IT IS THE PANEL’S VIEW THAT THE ROLE OF COUNCIL IS CLOSEST TO THE LATTER.’

‘23. THE PANEL ALSO CONSIDERED THE COMPOSITION OF COUNCIL, NOTING THAT RCUK RECENTLY ANNOUNCED THAT DIUS INTENDS TO RECRUIT TWO ADDITIONAL SCIENTIFIC MEMBERS TO THE COUNCIL, IN RESPONSE TO A RECOMMENDATION BY THE RCUK REVIEW OF PHYSICS CHAIRED BY PROFESSOR BILL WAKEHAM. NOTWITHSTANDING THIS CHANGE, THE PANEL NOTES THAT THE COUNCIL OF STFC DIFFERS FROM THAT OF THE OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS IN HAVING THREE MEMBERS OF THE EXECUTIVE ON COUNCIL. THE NORM FOR THE OTHER COUNCILS IS THAT THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE IS THE ONLY MEMBER OF COUNCIL FROM THE EXECUTIVE. IT IS THE PANEL’S VIEW THAT THE CASE FOR THIS DISTINCTION HAS NOT BEEN CONVINCINGLY MADE.

THERE IS ALSO CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT THE COMPOSITION OF COUNCIL HAS CREATED A NEGATIVE PERCEPTION OUTSIDE OF STFC THAT THE EXECUTIVE HAS EXCESSIVE INFLUENCE WITHIN COUNCIL.’

AS A RESULT OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS, TWO MEMBERS OF THE EXECUTIVE RESIGNED FROM COUNCIL

AND THREE UNIVERSITY BASED ACADEMICS (PROFESSOR MARTIN BARSTOW, SIR PETER KNIGHT AND

PROFESSOR JAMES STIRLING) WERE APPOINTED TO COUNCIL IN APRIL 2009.

HOWEVER, FOLLOWING PROFESSOR STERLING’S APPOINTMENT AS CHAIR OF STFC, THREE NEW MEMBERS OF COUNCIL WERE APPOINTED FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY. THESE APPOINTMENTS HAVE AGAIN SKEWED STFC COUNCIL SO THAT IT LOOKS HIGHLY ANOMALOUS COMPARED TO OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS (SEE THE ANNEX ATTACHED TO THIS LETTER). MOST OF THE OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS ARE DOMINATED BY ‘HEAVYWEIGHT’ RESEARCH SCIENTISTS WITH STRONG INTERNATIONAL REPUTATIONS. IN MY CONVERSATIONS WITH MICHAEL STERLING, HE HAS SEEMED TO BE UNDER THE MISTAKEN IMPRESSION THAT MOST OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS ARE DOMINATED BY ‘LAY’ MEMBERS, AND IS PARTICULARLY CONCERNED THAT ACADEMICS IN RECEIPT OF GRANTS FROM STFC HAVE A ‘CONFLICT OF INTEREST’. I QUOTE VERBATIM FROM AN EMAIL EXCHANGE (15TH JULY 2010)

‘THANK YOU FOR SETTING DOWN YOUR VIEWS ABOUT THE MEMBERSHIP OF STFC COUNCIL. WE HAVE DISCUSSED IT A NUMBER OF TIMES IN DETAIL BUT I REGRET THAT I DO NOT SHARE YOUR VIEW. THE NEED FOR SCIENTIFIC UNDERSTANDING IS NOT LIMITED TO ACTIVE RESEARCHERS WHO ARE FUNDED BY THE COUNCIL, WHO HAVE AN INEVITABLE CONFLICT OF INTEREST. THE CHALLENGE FOR RECRUITING FUTURE COUNCIL MEMBERS IS TO PERSUADE THOSE WHO HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE BUT ARE NOT IN RECEIPT OF OUR FUNDING, TO ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE THAT COUNCIL MEMBERSHIP ENTAILS IN THESE DIFFICULT TIMES. YOUR SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE WELCOME BUT AS YOU KNOW THE PROCESS IS CONTROLLED BY BIS.’

I ACCEPT THAT STFC COUNCIL NEEDS A RANGE OF EXPERTISE, BUT I DO NOT ACCEPT THIS OVERSENSITIVITY TO POTENTIAL CONFLICTS OF INTEREST OF RESEARCH SCIENTISTS ON COUNCIL. IT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE A SIGNIFICANT CONCERN FOR THE OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS. IN THE CASE OF MRC, THEY SEEM HAPPY TO HAVE MEMBERS FROM MRC INSTITUTES (FOR WHOM THEY PRESUMABLY PAY SALARIES) AS MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. RESEARCH SCIENTISTS ARE REGULARLY ASKED TO SIT ON PANELS WHERE WE MUST MAKE CROSS-DISCIPLINARY DECISIONS. IN MY EXPERIENCE TOP SCIENTISTS ARE HIGHLY CAPABLE OF MAKING OBJECTIVE DECISIONS. THIS IS EVIDENTLY EXPECTED FROM MEMBERS OF STFC SCIENCE BOARD.

ACADEMIC MEMBERS OF COUNCIL ARE NECESSARY: (A) TO PROVIDE TECHNICAL AND SCIENTIFIC EXPERTISE; (B) TO DEVELOP A COHERENT SCIENTIFIC STRATEGY FOR STFC; (C) TO ADVISE COUNCIL ON THE IMPACT OF DECISIONS ON THESE SUBJECTS; (D) TO RETAIN THE CONFIDENCE OF THE ACADEMIC COMMUNITIES IN THESE SUBJECTS (PARTICULARLY IN DIFFICULT ECONOMIC TIMES).

NO OTHER RESEARCH COUNCIL RELEGATES ITS ACADEMIC HEAVYWEIGHTS TO LOWER LEVEL COMMITTEES.

IT IS CLEAR TO ME THAT THE LOSS OF CONFIDENCE WITH STFC EXECUTIVE IS IN LARGE PART DUE TO

GOVERNANCE ISSUES, INCLUDING THE UNDER-REPRESENTATION OF SENIOR SCIENTISTS ON COUNCIL. STFC

SEEMED TO TAKE A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION FOLLOWING THE WAKEHAM REVIEW (WITH DIUS/BIS

APPROVAL), BUT HAS NOW TAKEN A STEP BACKWARDS.

I WOULD THEREFORE LIKE ANSWERS TO THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS:

[A] THE ORGANISATIONAL REVIEW OF STFC STATED CLEARLY THAT A RESEARCH COUNCIL SHOULD PROVIDE ‘STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP’. HOW CAN THIS BE ACHIEVED IF THE BEST RESEARCH SCIENTISTS ARE EXCLUDED FROM COUNCIL?

[B] THE WAKEHAM REVIEW EXPLICITLY CALLED FOR THE INCLUSION OF ‘MORE OF THE STAKEHOLDERS IN THE SCIENCE ACTIVITY AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL’. DIUS ACCEPTED THIS RECOMMENDATION AND APPOINTED THREE UNIVERSITY BASED ACADEMICS TO COUNCIL. WHY IS BIS NOW IGNORING THE WAKEHAM REVIEW AND SKEWING COUNCIL TOWARDS A LAY MEMBERSHIP?

[C]WHY IS THE COMPOSITION OF STFC COUNCIL SO DIFFERENT TO THAT OF THE OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS?

[D] DO YOU AGREE WITH PROFESSOR STERLING THAT UNIVERSITY ACADEMICS IN RECEIPT OF STFC FUNDS

HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND SHOULD NOT SIT ON COUNCIL? IF SO, WHY DOES THIS RESTRICTION NOT

APPLY TO OTHER RESEARCH COUNCILS?

[E] IF ONE FOLLOWS STRICTLY THE LOGIC THAT RECIPIENTS OF STFC FUNDS CANNOT SERVE ON COUNCIL, THEN WHY DOES THIS NOT ALSO APPLY TO PEOPLE FROM STFC FUNDED INDUSTRY (E.G. ASTRIUM, E2V, ETC)?

[F] ARE YOU CONFIDENT, BASED ON YOUR RECENT EXPERIENCE, THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS WITH THE SCIENTIFIC EXPERTISE TO PROVIDE ‘STRATEGIC LEADERSHIP’ CAN BE FOUND FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY?

FINALLY, YOU WILL OF COURSE HAVE SEEN THE ROYAL ACADEMY OF ENGINEERING RESPONSE TO YOUR

SCIENCE AND RESEARCH BUDGET REVIEW REQUEST CALLING PUBLICALLY FOR A REDUCTION OF FUNDING TO

FUNDAMENTAL PHYSICS AND PARTICLE PHYSICS IN PARTICULAR. YET MR PHILIP GREENISH, CEO OF THE

ROYAL ACADEMY OF ENGINEERING IS A MEMBER OF STFC COUNCIL AND IS SURELY AWARE OF THE SAVAGE REDUCTIONS OF 35% TO SCIENCE EXPLOITATION FUNDING IN PARTICLE PHYSICS, ASTRONOMY AND NUCLEAR PHYSICS SINCE 2008. THESE REDUCTIONS GO WELL BEYOND THE ‘SLASH AND BURN’ SCENARIO ENVISAGED BY THE ROYAL SOCIETY AND LEAVE THESE SUBJECTS PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE GOING IN TO A DIFFICULT CSR.

SO MY FINAL QUESTION IS:

[G] DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MR GREENISH’S CONTINUED MEMBERSHIP OF COUNCIL IS CREDIBLE, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE LOSS OF CONFIDENCE IN STFC BY THE ACADEMIC COMMUNITY?

YOURS SINCERELY

GEORGE EFSTATHIOU

19 JULY 2011

ANNEX

MEMBERSHIP OF RESEARCH COUNCILS

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NERC

CHAIRMAN ED WALLIS CHAIRMAN WS ATKINS

CEO PROF. ALAN THORPE(FORMER DIRECTOR NEC CENTRES FOR ATMOSPHERIC

SCIENCES)

MEMBERS PROF PAUL CURRAN PROFESSOR OF PHYSICAL GEOGRAPHY, BOURNEMOUTH

PROF HUW DAVIES PROFESSOR OF PHYSICS, INSTITUTE FOR ATMOSPHERIC

CLIMATE CHANGE ETH ZURICH.

MR ROWAN DOUGLAS MANAGING DIRECTOR WILLS ANALYTICS

PROF ALASTAIR FITTERPRO-VC FOR RESEARCH, UNIV. YORK

PROF ANNE GLOVERCHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISOR, SCOTLAND

PROF CHARLES GODFRAYPROF OF ZOOLOGY, UNIV. OXFORD

PROF ALEX HALLIDAYPROF OF GEOCHEMISTY, UNIV. OXFORD

MR PETER HAZELLCHAIRMAN ARGENT GROUP ETC.

PROF MICHAEL LOCKWOODPROF SPACE PLASMA PHYSICS, ENERGY AND

ENVIRONMENT, UNIV. SOUTHAMPTON

PROF THOMAS MEAGHERPROF PLANT BIOLOGY, UNIV. ST ANDREWS

PROF JULIA SLINGOMET OFFICE CHIEF SCIENTIST

PROF ANDREW WATSONPROF ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES, UNIV. EAST

ANGLIA

PROF ROB WATSONPROF ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES, UNIV. EAST

ANGLIA

PROF MARJORIE WILSONPROF OF IGNEOUS PETROGENESIS, UNIV. LEEDS.

13 UNIVERSITY + 3 ‘LAY’

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EPSRC

CHAIRMANJOHN ARMITTCEO NETWORK RAIL

CEOPROF DAVID DELPYFORMER VICE PROVOST RESEARCH UCL

PROF ANNE ANDERSONPROFESSOR OF HUMAN COMPUTERINTERACTION,

UNIV. DUNDEE

MEMBERSMIKE CARRFORMER CHIEF SCIENTIFIC OFFICER BT

PROF BRIAN COLLINSCHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISOR SFT, PROF OF

INFORMATION SYSTEMS CRANFIELD

PROF LYNN GLADDENSHELL PROFESSOR, UNIV. CAMBRIDGE

DR ANDREW HERBERTMANAGING DIRECTOR, MICROS OF CAMBRIDGE

PROF TIM PEDLEYPROF. FLUID MECHANICS, UNIV. CAMBRIDGE

DR MALCOLM ROBERTSMANAGING DIRECTOR GUIDANCE LTD.

PROF ROY SAMBLESPROF OF EXPERIMENTAL PHYSICS, EXETER

PROF CHRISTOPHER SNOWDENVICE-CHANCELLOR UNIV. OF SURREY

PROF PIERRE-LOUIS VIOLLETVICE-PRESIDENT R&D LABS.

PROF BILL WAKEHAMVICE CHANCELLOR UNIV. SOUTHAMPTON

DR DAVE WATSONDIRECTOR IBM HURSLEY LAB.

PROF MARK WELLANDPROF OF NANOTECHNOLOGY CAMBRIDGE AND

CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISOR MOD

PROF ROBERT WINSTONPROF OF SCIENCE AND SOCIETY IMPERIAL

DR TONY WOODHEAD OF MEDICINAL CHEMISTRY, PFIZER

11 UNIVERSITY + 6 ‘LAY’

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MRC

CHAIRSIR JOHN CHISHOLMCHAIR QINETIQ

CEOSIR LESZEK BORYSIEWICZFORMER DEPUTY RECTOR IMPERIAL, PRINCIPAL

FACULTY OF MEDICINE

MEMBERSPROF JEFFREY ALMONDVICE-PRESIDENT RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

(FORMER HEAD OF SCHOOL OF ANIMAL AND

MICROBIAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF READING)

PROF MICHAEL ARTHURVC UNIV. OF LEEDS (FORMER DEAN OF FACULTY

OF MEDICINE, SOUTHAMPTON)

PROF DAME SALLY DAVIESDG RESEARCH DEPT OF HEALTH

PROF CHRIS DAYPROF OF LIVER MEDICINE UNIV. OF NEWCASTLE

DR ANNETTE DOHERTYPFIZER GLOBAL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

DR RICHARD HENDERSONMRC LAB OF MOLECULAR BIOLOGY

PROF SIR ANDREW MCMICHAELPROF OF MOLECULAR MEDICINE, UNIVERSITY

OF OXFORD

PROF SALLY MACINTYREPROF FACULTY OF MEDICINE UNIV OF GLASGOW.

HON DIRECTOR MRC SOCIAL AND PUBLIC

HEALTH UNIT, GLASGOW.

MS VIVIENNE PARRYWRITER AND BROADCASTER

LORD NAREN PATELFORMER CONSULTANT OBSTETRICIAN NINEWELLS

HOSPITAL DUNDEE, FORMER PRESIDENT

ROYAL COLLEGE OF OBSTETRICIANS AND

GYNAECOLOGISTS.

PROF MICHAEL SCHNEIDERHEAD OF CARDIOVASCULAR SCIENCE, IMPERIAL

COLLEGE

PROF HERB SEWELLPROF OF IMMUNOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF NOTTINGHAM

10 ACADEMICS (INCLUDING CE0) + 4 ‘LAY’

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STFC

CHAIRPROF MIKE STERLINGFORMER VC BIRMINGHAM

CEOPROF KEITH MASONFORMER HEAD MSSL

MEMBERSMRS GILL BALLFORMER FINANCE DIRECTOR, BIRMINGHAM

PROF MARTIN BARSTOWHEAD OF COLLEGE OF SCIENCE ENGINEERING,

LEICESTER

PROF KEITH BURNETTVICE CHANCELLOR, SHEFFIELD

MR MARSHALL DAVIESRETIRED DIRECTOR BOOTS

MR PHILIP GREENISHCEO ROYAL ACADEMY OF ENGINEERING

DR MICHAEL HEALYDIRECTOR NAVIGATION BUSINESS DIVISION

ASTRIUM

DR PHILIP KAZIEWICZMANAGING DIRECTOR GI PARTNERS

PROF PETER KNIGHTSENIOR PRINCIPAL IMPERIAL

PROF JAMES STERLINGJACKSONIAN PROFESSOR OF PHYSICS, CAMBRIDGE

MR WILL WHITEHORNPRESIDENT VIRGIN GALACTIC

6 UNIVERSITY (INCLUDING CEO& CHAIR) + 5 ‘LAY’