Examination of Witnesses (Questions 189-261)
Q189 Chair: Good
morning. May I first of all place on the record this Committee's
deep sadness at the loss of David Cairns? David had been a member
of this Committee since the last election, not long, but he had
made a considerable contribution and he will be very sadly missed.
Now, this morning we are returning to the subject
of preparations for the London 2012 Games. I would like to welcome
the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, and his Olympics adviser,
Neale Coleman. Damian Collins is going to start.
Q190 Damian Collins:
In a similar vein, would the Mayor like to comment on the tragic
loss of Sir Simon Milton and to say something about how his responsibilities
for the Olympic legacy have been transferred to other members
of your team?
Boris Johnson:
Yes, I would like to pay tribute to everything that Simon did
to help to get London ready for the Olympics. He was a man of
fantastic administrative talent and he had a real vision for what
was needed in London, particularly in East London, and he is much
missed, I think, across all parties and throughout the Government
of London. Eddie Lister, whom I am sure you know, has joined us
from Wandsworth and is already doing a tremendous job.
Q191 Damian Collins:
All the members of the Committee echo your words of sympathy.
My first question is about the Olympic Legacy
Company. Why was it necessary to scrap the Legacy Company and
reconstitute it as the Olympic Park Legacy Corporation?
Boris Johnson:
Well, it is no adverse comment on the OPLC that we need to move
into a new phase because I think the Legacy Company has done and
is doing a very good job of work. What they are doing, as you
know, is trying to attract interest in the Park from around the
world and trying to attract investment. What they do not have
is planning authority, and they do not have the kind of streamlined
governance that I think we need. The advantage of having an MDC,
a Mayoral Development Corporation, is that we can now work very
efficiently with the Boroughs to get the maximum possible investment
in the Park. Let's face it, we are spending £9.3 billion
on these Games. Huge sums of money are being invested in London
and we need a very focused body that can maximise the benefits
of those investments for the public purse. It was incorporated
on April 1st. It will start on October 1st.
Q192 Damian Collins:
Is this a rebadging of the previous body or are you expecting
a step change in the performance of the new corporation?
Boris Johnson:
Well, it has been reconstituted. The OPLC as it currently stands
has no statutory powers. The MDC will have planning powers—that
is the critical thing—and it will enable us to be much more
streamlined and effective in delivering taxpayer value.
Q193 Damian Collins:
What response have you had from the Olympic Boroughs about this
change?
Boris Johnson:
We have had, I think, 50 responses to the consultation about the
MDC and we are working with all the host Boroughs. As far as I
know—and obviously I appreciate that your Committee has
met several times and heard lots of evidence about this—they
are very happy with the arrangements that we are pursuing, because
this is not some kind of mayoral fiefdom that we are trying to
create. What we are trying to do is work with the host Boroughs
to maximise the benefits of the Olympic investment and to project
the excitement and the attractiveness of this new urban centre
around the world.
Q194 Damian Collins:
Finally, have you reached agreement with the Boroughs on what
representation there might be from local politicians on the board
of the corporation?
Boris Johnson:
There is a body of work being done at the moment about how the
planning committees will work, but the Boroughs are broadly content
with the direction we are going.
Q195 Mr Sanders:
Once the corporation has been established, its funding will become
your responsibility rather than that of Central Government. Where
will the money come from?
Boris Johnson:
There are essentially three lumps of money. There is the ODA's
endowment, as it were, for the transition period, which is about
£350 million. Then there is £290 million over four years
that we secured from CLG. Then there is the £10 million per
year from what was the LDA.
Q196 Mr Sanders:
How long into the future do you see that arrangement lasting?
What is the contract for how long you are guaranteed some income
before the taxpayers of London may have to take it over?
Boris Johnson:
Well, clearly, the taxpayers of London are making a small contribution
in the form of the £10 million that is well-known, but the
current funding package lasts the lifetime of the current CSR
period.
Q197 Mr Sanders:
Do you think the new corporation could see a decline in its funding
relative to the funding it enjoyed under DCLG?
Boris Johnson:
Well, as I say, we have a very good settlement for the next four
years and I think we should work with that.
Q198 Mr Sanders:
How does that compare?
Boris Johnson:
How does that compare with what?
Mr Sanders: With the funding enjoyed
at the moment under DCLG.
Boris Johnson:
Well, we have more. As I say, we have £290 million coming
in over four years; plus the £10 million per year, £330
million; plus the £350 million from the ODA. It is going
to be a well-funded operation, but it needs to be because there
is a huge amount of work to be done.
Q199 Jim Sheridan:
Mr Mayor, could I focus on the skills and employment generated
by the Olympic Games?
Boris Johnson:
Yes, of course.
Jim Sheridan: In particular, I want to
ask about the convergence of the five host Boroughs and, indeed,
of the rest of London and the UK. There has been some criticism
that the employment and training targets that have been set by
the OPLC are somewhat unambitious. Would you like to comment on
that?
Boris Johnson:
Well, obviously, people are going to be very, very ambitious and
optimistic about what you can achieve for the investment of the
scale that I have described. It is quite reasonable that people
such as yourself should hold our feet to the fire and demand to
see the outturn from jobs and growth. I just would point out to
you that a huge number of London residents, unemployed London
residents, have been helped into jobs through varieties of schemes:
20,000 unemployed London residents have been helped into jobs
and 22,805 people have worked on the Olympic Park, almost half
of them residents of Greater London. Sometimes people say, "This
would have happened anyway and what is special about the Olympic
investments?" I would point out that if it had not been for
the Olympics coming to Stratford, we would not have had the Westfield
shopping centre, for instance—a £1.5 billion of investment
in this country that would not otherwise have happened. That shopping
centre alone is going to deliver 8,000 jobs, so that is a serious
economic motor for East London.
Q200 Jim Sheridan:
Just how significant is the contribution of convergence? What
difference will that make to the people?
Boris Johnson:
For 200 years that part of London has obviously been in a different
economic social world from other parts of London. There is no
doubt about it. It has been a place where people arrive. It has
been a destination for migration. It has been an area, traditionally,
of poverty and underachievement. But what we are trying to do
with the Olympic Park is something, I think, very remarkable and
very, very ambitious, to use your word. The vision, the master
plan the OPLC have set out for the Park is transformatory. They
want to create a new pole of attraction for East London and the
houses and the developments that are being proposed will resemble
the very best of London. The intention is to echo the most admired,
the most loved, the most valued bits of London architecture. The
Georgian terraces that were produced, the Cadogan and Portman
Estates, those great achievements of the 18th century, are going
to be echoed in a modern vernacular in the Olympic Park.
There will be a very considerable quantity of substantial
family housing. Of course, there will be large quantities of affordable
housing, but this will also be a place where families want to
come to make their lives and I believe it will be transformatory.
It is going to produce the biggest new green space, the biggest
urban park, in this country for 150 years. You add that together
with all the benefits of the transport network, the shopping centre,
the incredible venues that there will be in the Olympic Park,
and I think you will have a genuine new urban environment in East
London that will be completely unlike anything we have seen before
and I think it will be transformatory. So, in that sense, convergence
between East and West London, which is what you are talking about,
will be achieved. I am not saying that the Olympic investments
alone and what we are doing with the Stratford site are going
to magically transform the whole of East London, but in that area
you will see a convergence between the two.
Q201 Jim Sheridan:
You are focused very much on the employment statistics, which
is absolutely correct, but how does that take account of people
who have moved into the area specifically to get work in the Olympic
Park?
Boris Johnson:
You are right and it is hard to disaggregate them, but clearly
there is a big emphasis on trying to recruit people, particularly
from disadvantaged groups, and to get them engaged in Olympic
projects. I am just looking at the statistics: of the 20,000 people
who have been placed in work as a result of the Olympic investment,
50% of them are from the existing host Boroughs; in other words,
10,000 people. We think that they are basically, as it were, residents
of the host Boroughs who have not simply migrated in for the purposes
of getting Olympic contracts.
Q202 Jim Sheridan:
What proportion of local residents who have received training
through the schemes run under the auspices of the Games have since
gone on to find employment? Perhaps you can give us a definition
of "local".
Boris Johnson:
Well, it is hard, isn't it? I guess what you are talking about
is people who have lived there or whose families have lived there
before the Games were even a twinkle, a gleam, in our eye. I guess
that is what we mean by local people. Clearly, I think that if
you look at the Westfield investments alone, there are long-term
benefits in employment from this project.
Q203 Jim Sheridan:
I asked the question about the definition of "local"
because I have heard anecdotal evidence of people travelling from
the north through Watford Gap to try and find work at the Olympic
Games and they have been denied it because there are illegal gangmasters
operating in the area. Have you any evidence of that, anecdotal
or otherwise?
Boris Johnson:
This is something that I did hear about a couple of years ago,
but I have no evidence to suggest that is taking place.
Q204 Chair: Of
course, before you attend the Olympic Games next year there is
the small question of the mayoral election that you have to get
past first.
Boris Johnson:
There is a formality, yes.
Chair: Do you believe that the fact that
you are, just a few weeks before the Games, going to be hotly
contesting the mayoralty will cause any problem for the Games
or get in the way at all?
Boris Johnson:
I think that obviously I am going to have to try to get reelected
and I am going to work very hard to do so, but I don't think that
will in any way impede our preparations for the Games.
Q205 Chair: Of
course, before the last general election, in recognition of the
fact that either party might emerge as the Government following
that election, the Labour Government were very keen to ensure
that the Conservative Opposition were involved in the preparations
and were given briefing and access to information about the Games.
Are you giving a similar opportunity to Ken Livingstone?
Boris Johnson:
I can't imagine that there will be any bar to any information
or guidance briefings that any mayoral candidate needs.
Q206 Chair: But,
as far as you are aware, that has not happened yet?
Boris Johnson:
Not as far as I know, no.
Q207 Chair: You
would be happy to sit down with Ken and talk to him about the
Olympics?
Boris Johnson:
I don't think he sat down with me, if I am absolutely honest.
I do not remember being offered extensive briefing sessions by
him when he was Mayor, but obviously I will consider it. I have
no objection to briefing anybody, time permitting, and in all
parts of government the convention obviously is that as the election
gets closer, civil servants are made available to give the proper
briefings and to ensure a smooth transition is necessary, which
I devoutly hope will not—
Q208 Jim Sheridan:
That would be in the best interests of the country.
Boris Johnson:
Exactly. Exactly right, of course.
Q209 Damian Collins:
Just in case, have you been checking the Johnson family bank account
to see if you have been successful in your bid for Olympic tickets?
Boris Johnson:
I have not checked whether the money has been sucked out of my
account.
Q210 Chair: You
have applied for tickets?
Boris Johnson:
I have applied for tickets. You will be delighted to know, members
of this great Committee, that such is the frugality of the regime,
such is the hair-shirt approach that we operate, that there are
no mayoral freebie tickets. If I am lucky enough to be there in
2012, then I think I get a laissez-passer of some kind, sort of
access all areas thing, as mayor. But there are no tickets I
can dish out to my family, so there you go.
Q211 Chair: So
what have you applied for?
Boris Johnson:
A variety of events, a rich variety of events.
Q212 Damian Collins:
Obviously, Londoners, like everyone else round the country I think,
as of yesterday, were waiting to see whether they had been successful
and over a three and a half week period many people will have
committed themselves to quite a lot of money, potentially. They
will not know how much they are going to be spending until they
see it disappear from their bank accounts. Do you think that has
been a good system?
Boris Johnson:
As I say, I think it is a bit peculiar that it is that way around.
It is an administrative oddity, but it is not the end of the world.
I think when we all signed up, when we all went online, we understood
that that was the deal. We were prepared to pay this amount. I
don't think it is particularly heinous that it is that way around.
I think the critical thing, really, on the tickets is going to
be managing people's sense of disappointment, mild or otherwise,
about what they get. This has been a very, very well-run ticketing
operation. We have had, I think, 10 million applications for tickets
for the Games. There has never been so many applications for any
event in sporting history. There aren't that many tickets available;
but there are plenty of events that are under-subscribed, plenty
of events. So it is possible, and LOCOG will be doing this, to
come back for a second bite of the cherry and to allow people
who do feel that they have not got what they wanted to have another
crack and see whether they can get into some other event.
Q213 Damian Collins:
Do you have a concern that the system for delivering the tickets
might mean that younger people and people on lower incomes, in
particular, who would like to go to the Games are worried about
exposing themselves too much to buying more tickets than they
can reasonably afford?
Boris Johnson:
I hope not, and I stress again that the ticketing has been priced
pretty keenly. If you look at comparable events—big football
matches, pop concerts, rock concerts, whatever—we have 90%
of tickets under £100, 25% of tickets at £25 or less,
something like that, and there are lots and lots of tickets you
can get to very good events that are going to be good value for
people. This may not be of particular interest to those who do
not represent London constituencies, but for Londoners, of course,
there is the possibility that their children will have access
to some free tickets.
Q214 Damian Collins:
Have you been disappointed by the level of uptake so far from
London schools for your free-ticketing scheme?
Boris Johnson:
No, I think it is going to be very popular and I think that this
is a way for schools to use the Olympics to motivate their kids
and use the tickets as prizes for improvement or whatever it happens
to be.
Q215 Damian Collins:
I think it is an excellent scheme, but I think about threequarters
of London schools are yet to get online and register their interest.
Boris Johnson:
Well, thank you, Mr Collins, for giving me the opportunity to
remind London schools that there are now 114 days to go for them
to get online and register their interest and put their schools
forward.
Q216 Damian Collins:
I just want to ask a few questions about the stadium, which is
an issue that we have addressed in the previous Committee hearings.
While the legacy for much of the Olympic site has been secure
for some time, the issue of the stadium has been a raging debate.
Are you confident that the West Ham/Newham bid is going to be
successful and that, although West Ham have now been relegated,
that they can make a good go of this?
Boris Johnson:
Of course, we are keen followers of football in City Hall and
it was always included, I believe, in our calculations that there
could be a relegation on the cards for West Ham. That was always
understood. The economics of the West Ham bid—together with
Westfield and Live Nation, do not forget—were evaluated
on that basis. So that has not upset our thinking at all. Obviously,
if they could get their act together and get promoted again, that
would be terrific.
Q217 Damian Collins:
Do you agree with Lord Coe that there should be a lasting athletics
legacy in the Olympic Park?
Boris Johnson:
I do and I think that that was one of the reasons why the West
Ham bid was effective. It was not decisive. We could have gone
with another solution. We could have had an athletics legacy elsewhere,
but I think it was good that West Ham came up with that option.
Q218 Damian Collins:
There is a question about whether West Ham will make a go of a
stadium of that size, and obviously we all hope that they do,
but the other issue, which affects Londoners in a different way,
is that of football clubs moving around. Do you think there should
have been more engagement with the fans of the clubs in the communities,
certainly with regards to Tottenham potentially moving away or
Leyton Orient having a new, bigger neighbour come right on their
doorstep, that obviously affects them and their communities as
well? Do you think there should be more community involvement?
This might be a question that is better directed at the Football
Association than at you, but, as Mayor, I wonder what your view
is.
Boris Johnson:
Obviously, we have some of the great football clubs in the world
in London and they are a huge asset to the City and it is important
that they have the facilities and the stadiums that they need.
The GLA was involved to a great extent in the work that was done
on the Emirates and the whole redevelopment around there. I think
it is reasonable for us to take a view on these things. Even though
it is now being challenged—fundamentally I think the correct
decision has been made about West Ham—now that it has happened,
I think it is up to us to take a lead again and to work with Haringey,
work with Tottenham, to get the right solution for Spurs in that
part of London and we will.
Q219 Damian Collins:
Are you talking about Spurs planning for their new stadium at
White Hart Lane and the problems they have been having with Haringey
Council on that?
Boris Johnson:
I think there is work to be done with the council and with the
club to get the right solution for the club and for the fans,
and that is what we want to do. It is also important for the area;
this is of huge importance to north London.
Q220 Jim Sheridan:
Boris, could I take the bait and ask you to expand on the comments
you made about London children getting free access to the Olympics,
given the fact that the Olympics are being hosted in the capital
of the UK, with significant funds from UK taxpayers' money. Why
is the scheme being restricted to just London children getting
free access?
Boris Johnson:
Well, Mr Sheridan, the reason is very simple, which is that Londoners
pay in their council tax every year an Olympic precept and it
will go on, I am afraid, for years to come. You can imagine the
questions I get when I walk around London. When I am on the Tube
or my bike I get plenty of people coming up and saying, "What
about us? What is in it for us? We are paying for it all. What
are we getting back? What are my family going to get back from
the Olympic Games directly?" This is something that the Games
can give to London families. One child, 10 to 18, will have the
chance to go free to the Olympics or the Paralympic Games.
Q221 Jim Sheridan:
My answer to that is people who choose to live in London do so
in full knowledge of the council taxes they are paying.
Boris Johnson:
Yes, but some people have been living in London for a long time
and they cannot choose to move out of London purely to escape
the Olympic council tax precept and, therefore, I think it is
reasonable to do something for London families. I think most people
would say that. That doesn't mean that there will not be huge
opportunities for families in your constituency and, indeed, around
the country to come to the Games and enjoy it.
Q222 Jim Sheridan:
And pay for them.
Boris Johnson:
Well, they are, but the point I would respectfully make is that,
of course, they are paying for it, but they are paying less than
London families are paying.
Q223 Mr Sanders:
You seem keen to want to help find a solution that is in the best
interests of Tottenham Hotspur supporters and, indeed, West Ham.
What about Leyton Orient supporters whose team could, if it is
successful, find itself in a higher division than West Ham United
when the stadium becomes available?
Boris Johnson:
Well, I am only too happy to talk to Leyton Orient about their
ambitions. If there is anything we can do to help them, then we
will, of course, consider it. But it was not a bid, as far as
I am aware, that was made. I do not think Leyton Orient bid for
the stadium and we had to go with what we had.
Just for the benefit of the Committee, it is worth
re-emphasising how very different the position is now in relation
to the stadium from what it was three years ago, or two years
ago. Really, nobody could work out what we were going to do with
it and obviously the athletics-only legacy was not really felt
to be viable in the long term. We did need to import some kind
of football solution. Nobody knew what that would be and we ended
up with two very powerful and attractive bids. As everybody knows,
it was hard to choose between them, but I think we came down with
the right answer.
Q224 Mr Sanders:
With hindsight, don't you think that perhaps the existing football
clubs in the area, such as Leyton Orient, should have been involved
in those discussions right at the beginning? This poor little
football club that suddenly has this great big event happening
on their doorstep is not at all concerned because it is obviously
going to be an athletic stadium in time, well into the future,
but then, suddenly, the game changes and the big boys suddenly
come in and one of them, if successful, could well destroy their
potential future fan base. No wonder they are upset and no wonder
they are seeking legal advice. Don't you feel some sort of responsibility
for, if you like, a minority group within the area?
Boris Johnson:
Of course, and, as far as I understand the matter, actually there
were discussions with Leyton Orient in the run-up to the whole
process. Clearly, they were not bidders for the stadium itself.
We will continue to have discussions with them to see what we
can do to make sure that the erosion of their fan base that you
described does not happen. I met a load of Leyton Orient fans
on the Tube the other night and I don't think they showed any
sign of switching loyalties to West Ham. I didn't detect any urgent
desire among them to start supporting West Ham.
Q225 Mr Sanders:
No, people do not change football clubs once they have started
to support them, but it is getting the next generation of supporters;
that is the problem in the long term.
Boris Johnson:
Oh, I see.
Q226 Mr Sanders:
You mention people paying for the Games when they come to London,
but accommodation is another matter, which I have raised with
you before. There is now evidence that a number of accommodation
providers are increasing their tariffs massively for the period
of the Games, which does not reflect well for overseas visitors
and it prices out people from the extremities of the United Kingdom
who may want to stay overnight in order to enjoy some of the events
that are taking place. Is there anything at all that you can do
in order to protect the reputation of the hospitality industry
in this country?
Boris Johnson:
Well, as it happens, I had a big meeting the other day with the
leaders of London's hotel industry and one of the problems that
they have is that a large number of the rooms have already been
reserved, as it were, by LOCOG. Neale, what is the percentage
of rooms that have been already reserved by—
Neale Coleman:
If you take the big hotel chains, about 40% of them have already
entered into agreements with LOCOG to give them their hotel rooms
at a fixed price.
Boris Johnson:
They are not in a position to vary that. I did say to them that
they should be mindful of the very point that you make, Mr Sanders;
that London does not want to be seen to be charging too much.
They persuaded me that there will be a considerable range of prices
in the Games time. There will be a great many rooms that will
remain affordable and they undertook not to, as it were, be extortionate
or to gouge their potential customers.
Q227 Mr Sanders:
The problem is we could be having this discussion six months after
the event, looking back at how much the tariffs went up. You either
have to trust them at their word, which you are doing, or you
have to look at what has happened in other cities when there has
been a major event on and we have seen prices rocket where there
has not been a maximum tariff set by a local authority. Although
you do not have that power, have you ever considered requesting
that power of Government in order to set a maximum tariff for
this particular special event so that particularly the chains,
many of which are owned overseas, do not profiteer?
Boris Johnson:
We do not have that power and I think it unlikely that I would
be given the power by Government to set price tariffs for London
hotels, restaurants or anything else, much as I might like to
do so. Price maxima are notoriously difficult to set at any time.
Q228 Mr Sanders:
The French do it.
Boris Johnson:
Well, Emperor Vespasian did it as far as I can remember, fat lot
of good it did him. Was it Vespasian or was it Diocletian? Vespasian,
sorry.
Q229 Chair: Can
I turn to one or two of the other facilities on the Olympic Park
and their legacy use? In particular, firstly, the media centre,
which was originally hoped to become a hub for high technology
companies and make use of the digital infrastructure to attract
in new technology in this part of London. At the other extreme,
there was a suggestion at one point it was going to be a large
warehouse for a supermarket chain. Can you say what progress we
are making in actually finding a legacy use for the media centre?
Boris Johnson:
Your first suggestion, Mr Whittingdale, is much closer than the
second one and that is the rough area that we are in. I think
the OPLC is making good progress with the IBC/MPC and we will
see what happens. I think the attractiveness of the media centre
as a place for high-tech broadcasting media industries of all
kinds is very much apparent and the connection between that and
Tech City, Shoreditch, the Silicon Roundabout, all the rest of
it, is well-known and well-advertised by the Prime Minister and
everybody else, and I think he is dead right.
Q230 Chair: It
may be well-known and well-advertised, but has anybody agreed
to go into the media centre yet?
Boris Johnson:
Watch this space, is what I would say. We are hoping that—
Q231 Chair: It
is a space and we are watching it.
Boris Johnson:
You are doing the right thing; continue.
Q232 Chair: It
is just at the moment it is still just a space, without anybody
having—
Boris Johnson:
Well, it is about to become a media centre. It is about to become
one of the world's great media centres. What we are talking about
now is something that will not really become a live issue, as
it were, until 2013/2014. But, as I said just now, there is progress
being made. I do not want to pre-empt any announcements that the
OPLC may want to make, but they are obviously having some very
exciting and interesting conversations.
Q233 Chair: Are
you optimistic that there is going to be a return, therefore,
on the public investment that has gone into the media centre?
Boris Johnson:
I am always optimistic about virtually everything to do with the
Olympics. Yes, I think there is a real long-term legacy value
in that site and it will yield dividends for the public sector.
Q234 Chair: The
other major facility on the Park is the Aquatic Centre. However,
there has also been some concern expressed by the Boroughs that,
while it is a wonderful venue for competitive swimming, it lacks
attraction to the local community and that they might have to
build a separate swimming pool.
Boris Johnson:
What? Well, I think that would be curious. This will be a fantastic
facility. London only has two 50-metre pools as it is. We are
adding another two 50-metre pools. There will be diving pools
and heaven knows what. This facility will be readily available
to local schools and communities and I think it will be very well
used. I am told that if you look at what happened in Manchester,
where they also built a pool for the Commonwealth Games, it has
proved a triumphant success with the local community. I have no
doubt that the same will apply in East London.
Q235 Chair: It
was actually Sir Robin Wales who suggested to the Committee that
while there are some people who like to swim competitively in
lanes, a lot of the local people like flumes and slides and other
exciting equipment, which the swimming pool will lack. For this
reason, it was not considered the best legacy use for leisure.
Boris Johnson:
Well, I think it would be a shame to convert it into an aqua park
of a kind that I am sure you and I both have enjoyed, Mr Whittingdale,
without looking at the real sporting legacy value of it. I think
it has real potential. You have two fantastic pools; you have
the diving pools. Let us see how that works. It has worked well
in Manchester. I know that Robin, who I get on well with and work
closely with, has had a vision for a kind of—have you ever
been to a place called Aqualud in Ostend?
Q236 Chair: I
have been to plenty of aqua parks, not that particular one.
Boris Johnson:
It is a very, very good one. Have any of you been to Aqualud?
Aqualud, as in play, is the most terrifying—you are turned
into a kind of human bolus as you squeeze through the intestinal
system of this extraordinary place. I think it is Flemish, but
perhaps not. Anyway, I know that Robin is keen to do something
on those lines. I think let us see how far we get with the present
approach, which I think will be very, very popular and of huge
benefit to children and everybody in East London.
Q237 Chair: Do
you envisage that it will still require continuing public subsidy
to meet running costs?
Boris Johnson:
I think that is probably the reality, looking at it. I think it
will require subsidy and that is one of the reasons why it was
so important to get the settlement that we did for the OPLC and,
of course, the MDC.
Q238 Chair: Who
is likely to provide that subsidy?
Boris Johnson:
Well, as I say, it will be part of the MDC's.
Q239 Jim Sheridan:
Chair, could I just put on the record that if the good people
of London are not satisfied with the swimming pool, then I am
sure that the deprived people in Scotland would be happy to have
that swimming pool and would even supply their own water.
Boris Johnson:
I am delighted to hear that, Mr Sheridan. But the good people
of Scotland will be welcome in huge numbers in that pool.
Q240 Jim Sheridan:
Will they pay more than the locals?
Boris Johnson:
They can pay, and they will come. It will be cheap as chips. They
can come in as soon as the thing reopens in 2013. Convoys of people
from your constituency, Mr Sheridan, will be welcome and they
will find bags of water to swim in. Not bags, pools; lots of water.
Q241 Chair: The
Cultural Olympiad: are you confident that that is going to engage
the communities and young people of East London?
Boris Johnson:
I think it is going to be an exciting thing and this is being
run by Tony Hall and Ruth Mackenzie. There are all sorts of things
promised for us in 2012 in the Cultural Olympiad. The Create Festival
is already under way, bringing together all sorts of concrete
artists and mime and all sorts of things that are happening in
East London already. It is well-sponsored, by the way, by Bank
of America Merrill Lynch and it is proving a success. We want
to see a real legacy, to use the phrase everybody will use, from
the Cultural Olympiad and I am sure that we will; just to raise
levels of participation in artistic cultural activities of all
kinds. If you get on the website, you look up Create, you will
see the kind of things that they are doing. It is a success and
we want to capitalise on it during the Games and beyond.
Q242 Chair: On
the wider impact on London of the Games, obviously it is going
to be quite disruptive for people living in London. Would you
say to Londoners that, if they do not want to attend the Olympics
or any of the associated events with the Olympics, it might be
a good time to go away on holiday?
Mr Sanders: Come to Torbay. We have one
of those wavy things.
Boris Johnson:
You are making me rather envious now. I don't rule out any kind
of wave machine, by the way—if it is necessary to compete
with Torbay with a wave machine, then we will certainly look at
it. In 2012 the maxim is going to be "business as unusual"
and that means that the City will function and you will be able
to get around and you will be able to go about your business and
the economy will continue to crack on, but clearly if you want
to go east on the Jubilee Line on a big day in the Park, then
you may find that your travel experience is not the same as normal.
You may find congestion; you may find lots of people also wanting
to do the same thing.
On the Olympic Route Network, a lot of work is being
done to explain to people, if that is what you want me to talk
about next, what that involves and how they may be affected. I
think 65,000 or 185,000 letters are going out to people to inform
them of how it is going to work. A great deal of work is being
done, particularly with businesses large and small, about deliveries
to try to get the message across that if there is something that
you can get delivered to your business in June or early July—photocopier
paper or whatever it happens to be, frozen chips, something you
could store for the period of the Olympic Games—then it
might be a good thing to do so because there is going to be an
issue about managing deliveries. We are having conversations with
the Noise Abatement Society and the road haulage people to see
what flexibility we can introduce in night-time deliveries without
causing too much inconvenience.
So we are working on that. We are informing people
about the Olympic Route Network, but my message to Londoners would
be that I don't think people should flee the city, no. I think
that sometimes that does happen in other Olympic cities. They
should be prepared to be able to go about their daily lives in
the normal way, but there will be unusual aspects to it.
Q243 Chair: You
said one of the things they might anticipate is some disruption
if they were taking the Jubilee Line eastwards. Are you confident
the Jubilee Line will be working?
Boris Johnson:
Yes, and let me just say on that, I think that the last weekend
of closures is coming up at the end of June. We are moving now
to, as everybody who follows these things intimately knows, a
transmission-based train control system that we have had to install
after the failure of the Tube Lines operation under the PPP system
that was installed by the last Government. On the whole, we are
starting to be very satisfied with the progress that is being
made and we will be able to increase the capacity on the Jubilee
Line very considerably by the end of this year. That is approximately
another 5,000 people who will be moved through it per hour. We
have gone up from 24 trains to 27 trains per hour. Clearly, the
tradeoff in improving an old Tube system such as the one
that we have is always going to be between capacity and reliability.
You can push more trains through the tunnels, but what people
really want is their own individual experience to be perfect and
that is what we are aiming for.
Q244 Chair: The
record has not been impressive to date in terms of the performance
of the Jubilee Line. Have you any contingency plans if the upgrades
are not completed properly in time?
Boris Johnson:
As I say, the important part of the upgrade is going to be done
by the end of this summer and then we will have a full year to
bed it in and make sure that it is running well. If you look at
what has been happening on the Jubilee Line in the last couple
of weeks, you are starting to see the TBTC system really starting
to deliver improvements in performance.
Q245 Chair: You
mean it has not broken down in the last couple of weeks?
Boris Johnson:
Not only has it not broken down, but it is working—very
well, I would say. People should bear it in mind that we are putting
in complicated new software to deliver increases in capacity.
It involves basically, in layman's language and from what I understand,
each train continuously being able to talk to a kind of echo-sounder
thing, to a gizmo on the side of track. Whenever there is an interruption
to that, you can have delays and you can have interruptions in
the service. That did happen particularly in the early months
of this year. There was a period of underperformance. We are now
starting to see significant improvements and by the end of this
year we will be up to 27 trains per hour, 5,000 more people per
hour, going through the Jubilee Line.
Q246 Jim Sheridan:
Mr Mayor, I think the Olympics will be a severe test of our security
systems in this country, particularly with the death of Osama
bin Laden. Perhaps I could ask the obvious question: do you have
the utmost confidence, as much as anyone can have confidence,
in the security system, not just domestically but internationally
as well?
Boris Johnson:
Yes. I should say, Mr Sheridan, we do not have any evidence of
any extra threat to London or to the Games as a result of the
death of Osama bin Laden; so that is the first thing to say. Clearly,
a lot of work is done the whole time on security for the Games
and this is something that is critical to the success of London
2012. There were some practical arguments about the funding for
security, but I think we are in the right position there. I have
no doubt that we will do a first-rate job of keeping the Games
and keeping London as safe as possible.
Of course, I would just remind the Committee, and
it is always worth bearing this in mind, that in the end, if you
remember when 7/7 happened, it was when the G20 or whatever were
at Gleneagles in Scotland—you can have an outrage anywhere
in the country in order to attack an event that you disapprove
of or in order to make your point. The point I am making, rather
laboriously, is it is not just London that is a terrorist target
in 2012, but clearly London will be the focus of our defences.
Q247 Jim Sheridan:
Just finally, I think all of us hope that the Olympics go off
with the success that we all hope for, but already there is press
speculation about industrial action taking place and so forth.
I think I would certainly hope that neither side, either management
or trade unions, exploit the situation in London. Are you concerned
about that and, if so, what are you doing?
Boris Johnson:
I'm not, Mr Sheridan. I understand the anxiety and clearly this
is something that people talk about a bit. But I think that the
overwhelming majority of workers on London Transport and London
Underground are incredibly proud of what they do. You look at
what happened on the day of the royal wedding. I thought the City
looked fantastic and I thought, as an organism—the transport,
the police—it performed brilliantly. It performed absolutely
brilliantly. That is basically what people want to do again during
the Olympic Games. That is the ambition of the service and I think
it very, very unlikely that there will be industrial action. But,
clearly, it is important that we continue our discussions now.
We are having a pay round, as I am sure you may know. We will
continue our discussions, which are progressing well, and get
that right.
Q248 Damian Collins:
Just to go back on a couple of questions on transport, are Transport
for London going to be communicating with people who live outside
of London and regularly commute in? I am thinking particularly
of people in my own constituency in Kent who will be interested
in the road and travel plans during the Olympic period.
Chair: And in Essex.
Boris Johnson:
And Essex. We have meetings. One of the things we have introduced
is regular meetings between TfL and the TOCs, so all the train
companies around London, all the transport services around London,
are well plugged into what we are doing. We are trying to integrate
the information system so that people in Essex, in your constituency,
are able to understand as they get on the train what they are
likely to encounter in London.
Q249 Damian Collins:
When will the Olympic timetable for the rail network be available
for people so they can plan in advance to either start their journey
earlier or not come in at all?
Boris Johnson:
It will be available this summer. There will be discussions to
be had with some of the TOCs about some of the decisions that
they are making about where they are stopping and why they are
not stopping. Where we get representations from MPs outside London,
I am only too happy to help take up that.
Q250 Damian Collins:
Will the torch relay start and finish in London?
Boris Johnson:
Start and finish in London?
Damian Collins: Start and finish in London,
the torch relay?
Boris Johnson:
It will certainly finish in London. I think it starts in Olympia,
doesn't it? Surely you light the torch in Olympia.
Damian Collins: But when it comes to
the UK—
Boris Johnson:
We claim many things in London, but one of the few things that
was not revived or invented in London was the Olympic Games, I
have to admit. Wenlock in Shropshire probably has a better claim
to the Olympic Games than London, I am embarrassed to say. We
will not be starting the relay in London, but it will certainly
be ending here.
Q251 Damian Collins:
Well, obviously, but when the flame enters the UK, will it come
into the UK—
Boris Johnson:
Much Wenlock.
Q252 Damian Collins:
Will the first sighting of the Olympic torch be in London or will
it be in Much Wenlock or somewhere else?
Boris Johnson:
I don't know. Do you remember, Neale? I don't know where the Olympic
flame will first be glimpsed. It is a good question, isn't it?
I don't know how we will do it, but it will appear somewhere.
At some stage, obviously, there will then be a torch procession
through the country climaxing in London.
Q253 Damian Collins:
I have the mouth of the Channel Tunnel in my own constituency,
so I am happy to volunteer.
Boris Johnson:
I see; I thought you might be working up for some suggestion like
that. Well, I think LOCOG will be only too happy to consider that
kind of proposal.
Q254 Jim Sheridan:
What do you mean by "a procession through the country"?
What country?
Boris Johnson:
I am sorry; I meant the United Kingdom, Great Britain, which is
still the United Kingdom.
Q255 Jim Sheridan:
It could start in Orkney.
Boris Johnson:
It could.
Neale Coleman:
It will go to Orkney.
Boris Johnson:
It will go to Orkney. It will go to Orkney, there you go.
Q256 Dr Coffey: There
is an all-Party group meeting coming up talking about the relay,
if colleagues want to put a bid in. Just a question, Mr Mayor,
going back to the commuting and delivery plans. Obviously, you
are trying to get people off the roads anyway, but inevitably
some Londoners will perhaps go on to the M25 and elsewhere. What
kind of displacement predictions do you have for people using
the M25 and perhaps clogging up the Dartford Bridge and things
like that?
Boris Johnson:
I am not aware of any particular contingency actions we are making
for the M25 or the Dartford Bridge. The truth is that these things
are hard to evaluate in advance. It is an exercise in mass psychology.
I can't recall whether it was Mr Collins or Mr Sanders who suggested
that the best advice would be to flee the City. I don't think
that will happen. I think there will be loads of people here.
But if you look at what happened the other day, we had a million
people on the streets and we coped very, very well. I have no
doubt that we can do so again. The ambition of this Olympic Games
is to have a public transport Games; to get everybody to the venues
by public transport. Don't forget what we have done in the run-up
to these Games. We have had fantastic investments: £6.5 billion
worth of investments in public transport. We have a new East London
Line. We have the DLR extension to Stratford. We have the Jubilee
Line upgrades and we have a huge number of things that are going
to improve the public transport experience. That was what the
Games was about. I don't think that the Dartford Bridge or the
M25 are going to be particularly badly affected; but if TfL advise
me otherwise, Dr Coffey, I am more than happy to get back to you
and let you know.
Q257 Dr Coffey: Thank
you for that. I don't think the royal wedding is a completely
fair comparison because, of course, it was a Bank Holiday and
a significant number of people did not go to work and so on. Just
as a very separate thing, nothing to do with transport, early
in that year there is an election for your position. Being a Conservative,
of course, I hope you are re-elected. Have you had any discussion
at all—
Chair: I have asked him that.
Dr Coffey: Sorry,
I apologise. What have you asked?
Jim Sheridan: He
may give a different answer.
Boris Johnson:
I may have forgotten what my last answer was. Try it again; what
was it? What was the question?
Q258 Dr Coffey:
Just discussions about changing the time of the election.
Boris Johnson:
Changing the time of the election?
Dr Coffey: Yes.
Boris Johnson:
Or cancelling the election? That would be the obvious—
Dr Coffey: No, no, no, either bringing
forward or delaying.
Boris Johnson:
Obviously, as I said to the Committee earlier, I am going to work
very hard to get re-elected because it is the most wonderful job
in the world and I want to do it during the Olympics; but I don't
think that that will impede the preparations for a great Games
in 2012.
Q259 Chair: Your
Ambassador Programme—
Boris Johnson:
You say that with a certain—
Chair: I make no comment, I only ask.
You are setting up an Ambassador Programme at the same time as
the Olympics Volunteering Programme, the Games Makers, is your
Ambassador Programme to some extent for people who do not make
it on to the Games Makers?
Boris Johnson:
No. We have had 33,000 applications for the Ambassador Programme;
8,000 people have been chosen from all walks of life, all types.
Their ambition, what they want to do, is to show the City off
at its best and to welcome people and explain where the cash machine
is, where the toilets are, whatever it happens to be, and help
them to enjoy the City in Games time. People really want to do
it and we want to use the Ambassador scheme, like all the Olympic
volunteering, to promote volunteering and community activities
in London generally; so you build up a legacy, again, of enthusiasm
for that kind of thing, get people in the habit of volunteering.
Q260 Chair: I
think you said there were going to be 8,000 of your Ambassadors
and you have had 33,000 applications. Is there any way in which
you can encourage those who do not become Ambassadors to go and
volunteer elsewhere?
Boris Johnson:
Yes, there is a programme that we are going to be announcing next
month called Team London. Team London is going to be all about
mobilising people to do all sorts of voluntary activities of one
kind or another: planting trees, reading to kids in schools, all
sorts of things. There are ways in which we are going to be using
the public spiritedness and enthusiasm of the unsuccessful London
Ambassadors for other types of volunteering.
Q261 Chair: I
think that is all our questions.
Boris Johnson:
Thank you very much.
Chair: Thank you.
| 
