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9.22 pm
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): I believe that the first three years of the coalition Government will be remembered for three things: constitutional reform, dealing with the economic mess bequeathed by the Labour party, and localism. The Localism Act 2011 gave local authorities, and also local people, power to determine what happens to them. However, we have a hideously fiendish system of local government finance to deal with the money that is spent on supplying services, and I am delighted that we are finally dealing with that.
I am not a stranger to the proposal that business rates should be retained by local authorities. I advanced it at the 1994 Conservative party conference in Bournemouth. Sadly I could not persuade the Conservative Government of the day to implement it, but I am delighted that we are taking the first steps towards ensuring that business rates raised locally are retained locally, because that is an ideal way of providing incentives for local decision-making.
Of course, retaining business rates at local level will require a complicated system, from which there will be gainers and losers. Let me give two examples relating to a local authority of which I was a member for some 24 years. When Wembley stadium was demolished and taken out of the business rate pool, £1 million a year was effectively taken out of the income from business rates. That could have a disproportionate effect. Had the new system been operating at the time, the local authority would have lost the money for five years—some £5 million of income. Therefore, if an employer goes out of business there must be some means of compensating the local authority to address any fall in income. The provision encouraging local authorities to promote business in their communities is important.
There has also been an issue in the suburbs. The last Labour Government encouraged—almost promoted—businesses closing down and sites being turned over to housing. As a result, in the suburbs business rate income has dropped, and it continues to fall. We must take account of that as we encourage local authorities to promote business in their areas.
Local authorities have almost done away with promoting economic development as a main means of operating. The Bill will transform that. Local authorities will need to become business-friendly and promote business and jobs in their local areas. That is clearly the right way to proceed.
Local authority finance has changed greatly. Housing benefit comprises almost one third of the money going through most local authorities’ books. Rightly, that will be taken away. The administrative costs of housing benefit were outrageous. However, I have concerns about the implementation of the council tax benefit in such a brief time scale and the local impact of that. Almost everyone who is in receipt of housing benefit receives council tax benefit as well. Now that housing benefit will be administered through the Department for Work and Pensions, it makes sense for council tax benefit to be similarly administered. The situation currently proposed is bizarre, to put it mildly.
Turning to tax increment financing schemes, many local authorities have huge historical debts, which were incurred as a result of the development of housing 30 or 40 years ago. Are we going to allow local authorities
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with such huge historical debts to borrow against future business rate income, and thereby incur yet further debt, in order to build more housing or undertake other projects within their local authority control? That would add hugely to their debt and to the amount of interest they are going to have to pay, and it will have a disproportionate effect on their total budgets. We must look at this, and make sure things are administered fairly and properly.
This Bill is a welcome step, but the devil is in the detail and I look forward to debating that as we take it through its various stages to becoming an Act.
9.28 pm
Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): I want to talk about council tax benefit. The hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) is one of the few Government Members to have raised concerns. Another Government Member who raised concerns served with me on the Welfare Reform Bill Committee, where we discussed this issue extensively. He, too, expressed considerable doubts about the council tax benefit proposal, especially as another Government Department, the DWP, has a project for universalising benefits under one umbrella—which might not be as easy as it thinks. Why keep council tax out of that?
That is a very good question. One of the main reasons that the Government give for making such a huge change in welfare law in this country is to incentivise work and to make sure there are not the kind of perverse incentives that they think arise as a result of things such as different tapers on different benefits. There are, indeed, different tapers at present for tax benefits and housing benefit, but if we create a situation whereby everything apart from council tax goes into universal credit, we will immediately recreate an anomaly. That will have a work disincentive unless it is very carefully worked out. We must question why two major Departments do not seem to be talking to each other about that.
The 10% reduction is a substantial reduction in the money available to local authorities to provide assistance to people on low incomes who need help. It should not simply be seen as something quite minor. I thought, particularly having worked on the Welfare Reform Bill, that this was primarily about saving money, but having read a lot of the comments in the consultation about this Bill, I realise that it is part and parcel of the Government’s view of local authorities: that they are not trying hard enough to get people into work. The Housing Minister said to the Select Committee on Communities and Local Government that the 10% reduction would encourage local authorities to make sure that business parks got off the ground and that people got into jobs—because of course, if people had jobs they would not then need council tax benefit. Actually, that is not true.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): My hon. Friend is making a really interesting point about the perverse incentives that the Bill will introduce. Does she accept that in fact it will really clobber hard-working families who are struggling to make ends meet on low-paid work, and who rely on council tax relief to ensure that they can afford to work? In areas such as mine, it is those low-paid jobs that people will give up.
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Sheila Gilmore: It is people in work who will suffer in particular. Of course, this localising Government are not prepared to leave even their own local authorities to decide how the new council tax benefit should be distributed, because they want to insist that pensioners be protected. That is all very worthy, but protecting pensioners creates a greater burden on other people. There has even been the somewhat vague suggestion that some other vulnerable groups will be protected. The definition is not quite clear, but if other people are to be protected—which may not be a bad thing—the burden on those who are in low-paid work will be increased even further.
This is the direct opposite of what the Government say they want to do in incentivising work, and I do not believe that making such a change will alter the way local authorities work. In fact, I do not think we need to do that. This Government are very good at tilting at windmills, and the windmills are creations in their own head. We have heard about one from various speakers today, and it runs like a thread through the consultation: the suggestion that local government is not interested in creating jobs or encouraging development and industry. I do not recognise that feature of local government. Indeed, during my 16 years as a councillor, we were more often accused of favouring business over local people at various times. We created a large office park development in the city, which would not have happened had the local authority not put together the land assembly and the infrastructure and encouraged that to happen. That happened without having our local business rates in our own hands.
I simply do not recognise this false stereotype. It shows that a Government who say they believe in localism actually have a very poor attitude to local government and those who serve it. This Bill will be unhelpful in a lot of ways, not least because it will make the working relationship between Government and local government worse, not better. There is no respect in it for the very hard work that local authorities are putting in. We should not be perpetuating such a factless myth when we are trying to encourage localism.
It is not too late. One Government Member suggested that it is somehow too late to deal with the council tax benefit, but even the Welfare Reform Bill has not yet passed into law. It is not too late for the Secretary of State and his colleague in the DWP to get together and find a better system.
9.34 pm
James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): Britain has one of the most centralised systems of local government finance in the developed world, which is why I support this Bill in beginning the process of removing that centrally controlled straitjacket. It is also why I welcome the provisions for the relocalisation of the business rate as a significant step forward in achieving the devolution of financial power. I have been a strong advocate for relocalisation for a long time, in my capacity as chief executive of Localis, the local government think tank, because I believe that relocalisation of the business rate will provide a significant incentive for local authorities to drive business growth. It will also, as the Secretary of State said, significantly change the culture, so that local government will no longer be looking upwards to the centre for grant funding but will be looking for locally driven solutions to issues of economic development.
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I recognise, as others have done, the important contribution that tax increment finance can also play in providing a new and innovative mechanism of funding for local authorities, and I very much welcome the Bill’s provisions on TIFs. Dudley metropolitan borough council, one of the local authorities in my constituency, is already looking at projects that it might be able to convert into TIF-funded infrastructure development, which is critical. I welcome both those central provisions.
I also particularly welcome the opportunity for enterprise zones to retain a proportion of the uplift in business growth and in business rates, because that is going to be a good way of incentivising and developing local enterprise partnerships and offering them a long-term income stream. I very much welcome the Bill as a significant step forward and major milestone in the Government’s approach to localism. It is a very important first step in moving towards a genuine devolution of financial power, so I very much support the provisions and welcome the Bill strongly.
9.37 pm
Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris), a fellow member of the Select Committee on Communities and Local Government, for keeping his remarks so brief in order to enable me to make one or two comments of my own.
Allowing local authorities to retain part of the business rate is a key part of the Bill and I wish to speak from the perspective of a business owner, which is what I was for 25 years before arriving in this place. Business rates were a significant cost to my business, as they are to every other business, being the third largest tax we paid. They cost several thousand pounds a year, and they increased as my business grew and moved to larger premises. As a business man, it came as a bit of a shock to me, before getting involved in politics, to realise that the business rate bill that I paid to my local authority was not spent by my local authority in pursuit of services in the area in which I was based, but went into a central pool. It is entirely right that a proportion will in future be retained by the local authority, because promoting growth is a key role for local authorities. It is also very important to business owners, because that growth develops new customers and new clients for businesses and provides a better situation for staff.
I wish to discuss one issue not covered by the Bill, which is vacant commercial rates. There was an opportunity to extend relief to businesses that own vacant premises. The rating of those premises is causing hardship to the business community and it is making it difficult to encourage business growth, because there is currently no speculative building of business units and it has encouraged the demolition of vacant older industrial buildings so that the tax can be avoided. I wish to distinguish that approach from the provision on empty homes, because the housing market is distinctively different from the commercial property market. I welcome the empty homes premium, because we have 700,000 vacant homes and it is important that we provide an incentive to bring them into use.
I wish to discuss a final point about the influence of planning permissions. We await the outcome of the national planning policy framework, but there is a risk
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that the retention of business rates could become an additional incentive to grant planning permissions for developments that are not necessarily in the most appropriate locations. I hope that that concern will be addressed by a robust commitment to town centres first in the final draft of the NPPF, as the Select Committee report suggested.
I welcome the Bill. It is consistent with the Government’s decentralisation and localism provisions, it is a step change away from the dependency culture we have had up until now, and it pursues a strong localism agenda that will prioritise economic growth, which I will always support.
9.40 pm
Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): This has been an interesting debate, marked by a number of contributions from people with real expertise in local government finance and real concern—from those on the Opposition Benches—about what the Bill means for their communities. I do not have time to do justice to them all, but my right hon. Friends the Members for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) and for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford), both distinguished former Ministers, made some serious points, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), the Chair of the Communities and Local Government Committee, supported by my hon. Friends the Members for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson), for North Durham (Mr Jones), and for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham). They were all united in their deep suspicion of the Government’s motives and they are right to be, because as usual the Government began with grandiose declarations about what they intended to do, but that ended in failure.
There has been a failure to look properly at local government finance as a whole, a failure to consider need and a real failure to accept the Government’s own role in promoting economic development. We have ended up with a deeply flawed Bill in which we are asked to write a blank cheque for the Secretary of State. He will decide the tariffs and top-ups, he will decide the amount of the levy and he will decide who gets a safety net payment. He is rapidly becoming the Del Boy of local government finance, selling us all dodgy schemes while he sits there, rubbing his hands and saying, “You know it makes sense.” We are not buying, and we are not buying because we know his record. We saw how in the so-called Localism Act 2011 he gave himself 100 more powers. We have seen him design a local government finance settlement to centralise power and devolve the blame. That is exactly what the Government are up to now, and it was clear from the moment of their consultation, when they said that
“local authorities can be reluctant to allow commercial development and promote economic growth”.
I ask the Government, as I have asked them before, to name one such local authority. I know of no local authority—certainly no Labour local authority—that is not desperate to attract jobs and growth. It is not local councils that have stalled the economy, but this Government, who inherited an economy that was growing faster than the EU average and faster than that of the United States, and who destroyed it with a slash-and-burn
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approach to public spending. Of course, the Secretary of State is a true believer in that. He began in 2010 with in-year cuts to specific grants, which by their very nature target the most deprived communities. He then designed a local Government finance settlement that we are asked to accept as the baseline for business rate redistribution and that is breathtaking in its unfairness.
One need only look at the heat maps to see where the cuts fall: the north-east, Yorkshire, the north-west, parts of inner London and parts of the midlands. As a result of the Secretary of State’s settlement, by 2012-13 Liverpool will have lost spending power of £235 per person, Hartlepool £183, Newcastle £144 and Wokingham—the Government’s favourite council—just £1. That is what we are asked to accept as the baseline—a baseline, moreover, that includes the new homes bonus and the 2011-12 council tax freeze grant. That all gives advantages to authorities with a high tax base over those with a low tax base. The system starts from inequality and it will go on to entrench it further.
There is nothing in the Bill about the infrastructure that many areas need to allow them to develop and there is nothing about the surplus capacity in many of our cities. Liverpool has empty office space that is already subject to rates, which could create 15,000 jobs if brought back into use, but hardly any extra income for the local authority. An area such as Halton has 22.3% of its business property with an empty rating assessment. Again, that could create more jobs but hardly any extra income for the local authority.
The big black hole in the Government’s Bill is any recognition of their own responsibility to promote growth and help weaker economies to grow. It is not surprising then that they have even failed to address where business rates are a proper measure of economic growth at all. Commercial and retail premises generate far more business rate than manufacturing and small businesses. Small business start-ups, internet businesses and sectors such as tourism are vital to our economy but generate little in business rate. Nationally, we need those businesses. We need the skills they bring, the innovation they develop and the exports they gain. It is typical of the Government’s muddled thinking that they claim to support manufacturing and small businesses but then design a scheme with a built-in incentive for retail. No wonder the Secretary of State has been told by the leaders of local authorities in manufacturing areas that the Bill gives preference to retail over manufacturing.
The Bill also gives preference to the rich over the poor. Under the scheme, the gap between rich and poor areas and between north and south will widen—even if top-ups and tariffs grow by the retail prices index. It will widen even if all local authorities generate the same increase in business rates and council tax, because another thing that the Government have failed to consider is the different tax base of local authorities, particularly the different council tax base, which is not in the Bill at all. They have nothing to say about areas such as the north-east, where 56% of properties are in band A and 86% are in bands A to C. They have nothing to say about the difference between those areas and Surrey, for example, where 75% of properties are in band D or above. They have nothing to say about it because they do not want to address the problem of inequality.
The same is also true of the Government’s suggestion about the localisation of council tax benefit, which we will need to discuss in much more detail in Committee.
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The scheme will ensure that the people who are hit hardest will be the working poor—the people who go out every week to earn their poverty—and this from the Government who say they want to make work pay.
Another big thing that is missing from the Bill is any assessment of need. This Government with a Cabinet stuffed full of millionaires do not care about those who need local services. I know the Secretary of State is going to tell me that he is not a millionaire, but he hardly represents the squeezed middle, does he? The Government have nothing to say about areas such as Liverpool, which has seen a 73% increase in special guardianship orders since 2009, or Durham, where nearly 2.5 times as many people require home care as in Surrey. They have nothing to say about areas such as Halton, where 24% of the population have a limiting long-term illness. In future, those services cannot be safeguarded if business rates fall because the Bill introduces a postcode lottery in services and benefits. No longer will a person’s entitlement depend on their situation; it will depend on where they live.
It is for that reason that we oppose the Bill. It will increase the disparity between rich and poor; it will hit the poorest areas most; and it will in the end ensure, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham said, a two-tier, two-speed economy in Britain. For that reason, I urge my hon. Friends to oppose the Bill in the Lobby tonight.
9.49 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): Some 26 Members have spoken in the debate, and I too apologise if I cannot follow every one of the interventions in detail. I appreciated the contributions of my hon. Friends the Members for Crawley (Henry Smith), for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke), for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen), for Ipswich (Ben Gummer), for Meon Valley (George Hollingbery), for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart), for Nuneaton (Mr Jones), for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw), for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price), for Harrow East (Bob Blackman), for Halesowen and Rowley Regis (James Morris) and for Rugby (Mark Pawsey), all of whom spoke from experience in local government and also, significantly and importantly, often from experience in business too, because one of the Bill’s objectives is to re-establish a proper link between local councils and the businesses that they serve and the communities who benefit from growth.
It has been in other respects, I confess, a classic curate’s egg of a debate, with some thoughtful and considered speeches and some of quite breathtaking banality. When I listened, with every respect, to the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) talking about a golden legacy left by the previous Government, I realised we had finally entered the realms of illusion. While I bring the hon. Lady back to reality—and talking of experience—let me just tell her that this grandson of a London docker is not going to take any lectures on need from the party of Tony Blair.
The reality is that the Bill is a necessary measure to clear up the mess that the Labour party made of Government finance in 13 years. Two of the Ministers responsible have done their very best to defend a local
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government finance system which they regard as so wonderful that it should almost be a listed building, but which has been described by dispassionate observers as incomprehensible, complex, unfair and unable to provide a proper means of distribution.
It was interesting to hear references to the Lyons review, which the Labour Government sat on for three years, doing nothing. Lyons said:
“there are no coherent or systematic financial incentives that encourage growth either for”
“or, more importantly for their communities.”
Labour did nothing; we are doing something.
“The current English model of equalisation is recognised as one of the most complex in the world”
said the Lyons review, which Labour set up and ignored when it did not give the answers it wanted. We are doing something about it.
The university of Plymouth—the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) spoke earlier—said:
“the four-block model is deeply flawed and generates an inequitable allocation of this major source of local authority revenue.”
The Labour Govt did nothing about that, although they had the information; we are putting it right.
Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Will the Minister give way?
Robert Neill: There has been little time, and I intend to make a few points, if I may.
Secondly, and particularly regrettably, there was the simplistic analysis and the misleading attempt in the debate to create a false north-south divide—particularly disgraceful, it might be thought, when one has only to look at the facts and observe that over the last five-year revaluation period, when the average business rate growth in England was 5%, the following authorities had business rate growth above the average, and therefore would have benefited more than average had our proposed system been in place: Doncaster, Durham, Greenwich, Hull, Liverpool, Manchester, North Tyneside, South Tyneside, Sunderland, Sefton, Stockton, Middlesbrough—[Interruption.] No, I am not prepared to take any lectures from Labour Members when they cannot get the facts right. I will give way once, briefly.
Helen Jones: Would the hon. Gentleman like to tell us how much was invested in those regions by the Labour Government to promote that growth—investment which has now been cut under his Government?
Robert Neill: That confirms my view that there is an illusion that the racking up of debt is somehow beneficial to this economy, and that is the reason why, I am afraid, in one aspect of the Bill, it is necessary for us to deal with the required deficit reduction in relation to council tax benefit—precisely because the only way in which we will get sustainable long-term growth in any parts of this country is by reducing the deficit that we inherited.
In tackling that important issue, the Bill seeks to meet the concerns of local government that the reform of the benefits system into universal benefit might have
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meant that there was no longer direct payment of those moneys to local authorities. Our Bill makes that point, but also gives local authorities the ability to design those savings in a way that reflects their needs and their priorities—which, as we all heard from the debate, vary from locality to locality. The unwillingness of Opposition Members to face that simple reality speaks volumes about the shoddiness of their analysis.
It is remarkable that, with one or two honourable exceptions, no attempt was made to pursue some of the important measures which have been put in place to safeguard the underpinning of the business rate retention system. Not only will there be a baseline to ensure that no local authority loses out at the start, but the system of tariffs and top-ups will be uprated according to the retail prices index so that the vast bulk of local authorities’ income will be protected, and at the same time, local authorities that are incentivised to encourage growth will always see some benefit coming through. Similarly, the hon. Lady referred to infrastructure, but she poured scorn upon the introduction of tax increment financing, which is exactly the means of unlocking some of that infrastructure—a model called for by all dispassionate observers, and for many years by Members of all parties, but consistently ignored by the Opposition. They seem to be stuck in—
Robert Neill: I have given way once and I shall not give way again. I am sure the hon. Lady will have plenty of opportunity to raise these matters when we debate the Bill in Committee on the Floor of the House. I find it amazing that the shadow Secretary of State complained about that. It says it all that the first comment that the shadow Secretary of State could make was a debating point that it was objectionable that we should take such business on the Floor of the House, where every Member can participate, since every one of their local authorities is affected by the proposal. That suggests that the Opposition had very few other arguments to deploy. It is a little like the consistent trotting out of the inaccuracy in the growth figures across the UK. When we are reduced to a sort of political re-run of “Z Cars”, we know we have won the argument because the Opposition have nothing else to put into the equation.
The reality is that for the first time the Government have taken steps to redress the balance in a system that is recognised across the world as not working. There is not an adequate linkage with local authorities. I believe there are local authorities of all parties that want to do the best by their community, but they lack the tools and the mechanisms to create that by encouraging growth in their areas. We are replacing a flawed system with one which gives them the scope for growth. I had hoped that Members in all parts of the House would applaud that. However, we get a degree of churlishness and carping, indicating that because the Opposition did not come up with the plan, they regard it as unworkable.
We will talk through the details of the Bill as we examine it in Committee, but it is worth noting that very many of the independent responses to the consultation favoured this reform. It is worth bearing in mind the fact that in 2008-09 the Communities and Local Government Committee said that relocalisation would give local government an additional tool to pursue local recession-proofing policies, and it is worth recognising
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that the new local government network, not normally associated with the coalition side of the House, said that it recognised the potential that the growth incentive presents to create new private sector jobs and prosperity.
Hon. Members ought to wake up to reality and recognise that what is being put forward is an important and valuable reform. I hoped that rather than voting against it, they would have endorsed it and worked with us to make sure that we have a lasting system of finance for the future.
Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
The House divided:
Ayes 332, Noes 232.
[9.59 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barker, Gregory
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Green, Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McCrea, Dr William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Patrick
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, Mr Stephen
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shannon, Jim
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Mr Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
Stephen Crabb and
Norman Lamb
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Banks, Gordon
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Mr Wayne
Davies, Geraint
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacShane, rh Mr Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reeves, Rachel
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Yvonne Fovargue and
Jonathan Ashworth
Question accordingly agreed to.
10 Jan 2012 : Column 134
10 Jan 2012 : Column 135
10 Jan 2012 : Column 136
10 Jan 2012 : Column 137
Local government finance Bill (programme)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, (Standing Order No. 83A(7) ) ,
That the following provisions shall apply to the Local Government Finance Bill:
Committal
1. The Bill shall be committed to a Committee of the whole House.
Proceedings in Committee
2. Proceedings in Committee of the whole House shall be completed in three days.
3. The proceedings shall be taken in the order shown in the first column of the following Table.
4. The proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the time specified in the second column of the Table.
Consideration and Third Reading
5. Any proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.
10 Jan 2012 : Column 138
6. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.
Programming committees
7. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to the proceedings on the Bill in Committee of the whole House, to any proceedings on Consideration or to proceedings on Third Reading.
Other proceedings
8. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Jeremy Wright.)
The House divided:
Ayes 321, Noes 234.
[10.15 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barker, Gregory
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Green, Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Patrick
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, Mr Stephen
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soubry, Anna
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
James Duddridge and
Norman Lamb
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Banks, Gordon
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Mr Wayne
Davies, Geraint
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Tessa
Joyce, Eric
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Simpson, David
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Yvonne Fovargue and
Jonathan Ashworth
Question accordingly agreed to.
10 Jan 2012 : Column 139
10 Jan 2012 : Column 140
10 Jan 2012 : Column 141
10 Jan 2012 : Column 142
LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE BILL (MONEY)
Queen’s recommendation signified.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Local Government Finance Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of—
(a) any expenditure incurred by the Secretary of State in consequence of the Act, and
(b) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Jeremy Wright.)
The House divided:
Ayes 314, Noes 189.
[10.29 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barker, Gregory
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Green, Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Maude, rh Mr Francis
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McCrea, Dr William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Mercer, Patrick
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, Mr Stephen
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shannon, Jim
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soubry, Anna
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
James Duddridge and
Norman Lamb
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Banks, Gordon
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Tony
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
David, Mr Wayne
Davies, Geraint
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hamilton, Mr David
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hilling, Julie
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Howarth, rh Mr George
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Joyce, Eric
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murray, Ian
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Owen, Albert
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodcock, John
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Yvonne Fovargue and
Jonathan Ashworth
Question accordingly agreed to.
10 Jan 2012 : Column 143
10 Jan 2012 : Column 144
10 Jan 2012 : Column 145
10 Jan 2012 : Column 146
Local Government Finance Bill (Ways and Means)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Local Government Finance Bill, it is expedient to authorise—
(1) the payment of sums to the Secretary of State in respect of non-domestic rating, and
(2) the payment of those sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Jeremy Wright.)
The House divided:
Ayes 312, Noes 175.
[10.42 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barker, Gregory
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Green, Damian
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Nick
Hayes, Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Mr Edward
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McCrea, Dr William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, Mr Stephen
Offord, Mr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shannon, Jim
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soubry, Anna
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Teather, Sarah
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
James Duddridge and
Norman Lamb
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Banks, Gordon
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Mrs Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Tony
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
David, Mr Wayne
Davies, Geraint
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hamilton, Mr David
Hanson, rh Mr David
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hilling, Julie
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Howarth, rh Mr George
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Joyce, Eric
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lloyd, Tony
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Long, Naomi
Lucas, Ian
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miller, Andrew
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murray, Ian
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Owen, Albert
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, rh Malcolm
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodcock, John
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Yvonne Fovargue and
Jonathan Ashworth
Question accordingly agreed to.
10 Jan 2012 : Column 147
10 Jan 2012 : Column 148
10 Jan 2012 : Column 149
10 Jan 2012 : Column 150
Local Government Finance Bill (Carry-over)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 80A(1)( a )),
That if, at the conclusion of this Session of Parliament, proceedings on the Local Government Finance Bill have not been completed, they shall be resumed in the next Session.—(Jeremy Wright.)
The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday 11 January (Standing Order No. 41A).
Business without Debate
Business of the House
That at the sitting on Wednesday 11 January paragraph (2) of Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments) shall apply to the Motions in the name of Edward Miliband as if the day were an Opposition Day.—(Jeremy Wright.)
Delegated Legislation (Committees)
That the Policing Protocol Order 2011 (S.I., 2011, No. 2744), dated 15 November 2011, be referred to a Delegated Legislation Committee.—(Jeremy Wright.)
Mr Speaker: Before the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) opens his Adjournment debate, may I appeal to Members who are, unaccountably, leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, so that the rest of us can hear what he has to say?
10 Jan 2012 : Column 151
Rail Services (Clitheroe, Blackburn and Manchester)
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Jeremy Wright.)
10.55 pm
Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): Thank you very much for that, Mr Speaker, and for the opportunity you have given me to raise this important local issue of rail services between Clitheroe, Blackburn and Manchester in my first Adjournment debate at least in this century and going back a good part of the previous one.
With the Transport Secretary’s key announcement earlier this afternoon of the Government’s commitment to press ahead with the High Speed 2 line, today will go down as a day of great significance in the development of public transport in the United Kingdom. Of course I welcome that announcement, as I welcomed the earlier announcements to extend electrification to the Manchester-Liverpool and Manchester-Preston rail corridors. HS2 will not, however, be completed until at least 2026, and the north-west electrification schemes will not be completed until at least 2016. So this evening I want to make the case for the pressing and much more immediate improvements needed in the north-south rail services from Clitheroe, which run through Blackburn and Darwen, and into Manchester. I also want to seek the advice and guidance of the Minister on how we can break out of an apparent Catch-22 that is in the way of those improvements, whose benefits for existing and future rail passengers, and for the wider economy of east Lancashire and the north-west, will, we believe, be significant.
The campaign for improvement in the services is supported by all the Members of Parliament for the area, all the political parties and all the local authorities affected. My constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry), is in his place and will speak immediately after me, and the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr Evans) would be vocal in his support for this cause but for the fact that, as a Deputy Speaker, he can take no part in debates.
Let me set the scene. Rail services in our area run east-west and north-south, with the main interchange being at Blackburn. When I became its Member of Parliament in 1979, these services in east Lancashire were, like those elsewhere, in the shadow of Dr Beeching’s axe, and they were in a process of what appeared to be terminal decline. Some lines had been closed altogether or had had their passenger services ended. On other lines, double tracking had been replaced by single tracks, and service frequencies had been greatly reduced—that is the fundamental problem on the line under consideration.
In the 33 years since I became an MP, there have been some significant improvements in rail services. In the early 1980s, the Copy Pit line to west Yorkshire was reopened for passenger services. There is now an hourly fast service across the Pennines that, combined with a local stopping service to Colne, gives a half hourly east-west service throughout the day. In 1994, following a great campaign by rail groups in the Ribble Valley, with the support of the MP for that constituency and the county council and district councils, passenger services and stations from Clitheroe to Blackburn were reinstated. The new service has proved immensely popular.
10 Jan 2012 : Column 152
Significant sums have been spent on station improvements. In 2000, Railtrack replaced the old and decaying train shed at Blackburn station with well-designed new station facilities, which were part of a £5 million regeneration project. That set of improvements has been augmented in the past few months by new buildings on platform 4 at Blackburn station, which were made necessary by the increased demand for rail services on both the east-west and north-south lines. Much needed improvements at Darwen station will be completed in April and regional growth fund moneys for the Todmorden curve, enabling direct services from Burnley to Manchester, have just been agreed.
Office of Rail Regulation data show that there has been a 90% increase in rail travel within the north-west in the 12 years from 1995-96 to 2007-08, exceeding by 20 percentage points the overall growth in all rail passenger journeys in Great Britain over the same period. The data also show that east Lancashire has been part of that extraordinary growth in local rail services in the north-west. There has been a 27% increase to 1.2 million a year in the number of passengers going through Blackburn station in the five years from 2004-05 to 2009-10 and an astonishing 46% increase in the number of passengers going through Darwen railway station, which is now 250,000 a year.
Overall, the north-south Clitheroe to Manchester line is forecast to be used by 1.7 million passengers this financial year, the highest patronage ever enjoyed by the route. The service developments that are already taking place at Manchester Victoria will put more stress on the service as connections become even easier to a larger range of destinations, including Manchester airport.
The irony is that alongside that catalogue of significant improvements, the one service that cannot be significantly improved at the moment is the line under consideration. The reason is very simple: the track between Blackburn and Bolton was singled in the 1960s. The result is that the maximum level of service that is possible to run on that line is that run today—basically, an hourly service with a half hourly service in the morning and evening peaks. Even maintaining that pattern of service is difficult as, because of the long sections of single track, delays become amplified, sometimes throughout the day. Overcrowding on the services can be intense, as all of us who use it can bear witness, and the quality of the rolling stock is poor on the whole—it is made up of the old Pacers and Sprinters of the 1970s and 1980s—despite the best efforts of Northern Rail, the train operating company. Essentially, other areas’ cast-offs are “cascaded” —I think that is the polite term—as new stock is brought in not in east Lancashire but elsewhere.
The solution to that systemically unsatisfactory situation is obvious: to double track some, although not all, of the line between Blackburn and Bolton, to lengthen trains and to improve the quality of the rolling stock. A great deal of technical work has been undertaken already on the key issue of doubling the track. The north-west rail utilisation strategy for 2007 put the “anticipated cost” of the necessary infrastructure improvement at “over £20 million”.
The consultants commissioned by the local authorities, Faber Maunsell, concluded in their 2007 report that a
“positive business case is achievable for some of the options”
under consideration. That said, the scheme has not so far scored highly enough on the standard cost-benefit analysis tools to feature in Network Rail’s confirmed
10 Jan 2012 : Column 153
investment programmes. The frustration that we all feel—the Catch 22—is that we know as a fact that there has been a huge increase in ridership even given the less than satisfactory frequency, reliability and comfort of the current service and we are convinced that pretty modest improvements in the scale of things would enable there to be dramatic improvements in reliability, frequency and ridership, with major benefits to the local economy. We see proposals elsewhere in the region and in the country whose intrinsic benefits appear to be no greater being more successful in the competition for funds, yet the formulae used do not appear satisfactorily to capture the economic and social benefits that we are sure will accrue from this investment. So, we look forward with optimism and anticipation to the advice from the Minister on how we can break away from the circular trap we are in and progress this scheme.
11.4 pm
Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): Let me start by congratulating the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) on securing this very important Adjournment debate, which is vital to his constituency and mine. The railway link between Manchester, Darwen and Blackburn needs to be improved. As we have heard, the current service is infrequent and suffers from chronic overcrowding. Despite those problems, it is heavily used. Indeed, I was astounded to learn that there has been a 46% increase in the number of people catching the train from Darwen into Manchester in the past five years.
This evening, the right hon. Gentleman and I ask the Minister for advice on how we can proceed as local MPs in partnership with our local authorities and on a cross-party basis to achieve the doubling of parts of the line between Darwen and Bolton so that we can have a regular half-hourly service that is reliable not only at rush hour but throughout the day. Other works will also be required to improve the service, including the lengthening of platforms to enable longer trains to ease the chronic overcrowding problems. In terms of public infrastructure, the improvements we seek are relatively affordable. Independent estimates have costed them at around £20 million.
I do not want you to think that this is just the Jake and Jack line, Mr Speaker. Improvements would also benefit many other hon. Members of the House and would help residents in Salford, Bolton, Darwen, Blackburn and Clitheroe. My major concern is the Darwen dividend, as the local MP, and I want improvements in the line for my constituents. I draw the Minister’s attention to the overwhelming demand for an improved service, which has already been demonstrated by the increased use. Clearly, demand already exists.
Why is the improvement we seek necessary? Even with the current overcrowded and often unreliable service, 10% of the borough’s work force from Blackburn and Darwen commute to Greater Manchester to work. As a Liverpudlian, it pains me greatly to admit that Manchester is the north-west’s superpower, but unfortunately I have to say that that is correct. Independent estimates suggest that about 60,000 new jobs will be created in Greater Manchester over the next 10 years. That jobs and growth dividend must be shared across Blackburn and Darwen, with my constituents, and across the entire borough. We want this growth dividend in east Lancashire, which has some deprived areas. We need it. Some of the growth in jobs and industry will be linked to MediaCity, and the
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line we are discussing is vital to servicing that development. It passes through Salford Central, which is the nearest station to MediaCity.
Why would people in east Lancashire want to go to Manchester for jobs? It is simply about economics. People who work in Manchester are more highly paid than people who have a job within the borough. If we want those high salaries to be brought back into our borough by people bringing their money home at the end of the day to spend in our local economy, we need a regular rail service and a rail link that can be relied on. That, I hope, will be the Darwen dividend for growth.
Finally, I urge the Minister to take a close look at the scheme. As I have said, it is affordable and the cost would be outweighed by the social, economic and leisure benefits for all the residents of east Lancashire. We are in a unique position in that our roads are among the most clogged up in the country. Indeed, the M66 was identified in the latest edition of The Sunday Times as the most congested road in Britain. We rely on our rail system and we need it to be improved. I hope the Minister will give that point some consideration.
11.9 pm
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers): I start by congratulating the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) on securing this debate on, as he says, a very auspicious day for the rail network in the United Kingdom. While the focus for many today has been on the big project, which is going to be high-speed rail, it is also very important to continue to improve services on our existing rail network, including local services of the sort that we have been discussing this evening. I know how much importance the right hon. Gentleman places on that, as do the other hon. Members who are present today and want to make their arguments heard.
The Government fully appreciate the economic benefits that improving our transport system can generate. That is why we have placed a priority on improving our rail network, even though our budgets are limited due to the need to deal with the deficit. So as well as going ahead with high-speed rail, we have embarked on the biggest programme of rail improvements to our existing network since the Victorian era, and that ambitious programme includes a number of very important projects in the north-west, which I may have time to cover briefly at the end if time allows.
We recognise that capacity has been an issue for a considerable time on commuter train services into Manchester, including services from Clitheroe and Blackburn. The passenger growth figures that the right hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jake Berry) have referred to are indeed striking, and that pattern is reflected on many other parts of the rail network, which is why we have undertaken the programme of capacity expansion that we have. It was welcome news, therefore, when funding for the HLOS—high-level output specification—programme of additional carriages on the whole network was confirmed by the Chancellor in the comprehensive spending review. That programme included extra carriages for the Clitheroe-Blackburn-Manchester line. Since July 2010, three of the seven peak services on that route have been lengthened, providing a 20% increase in the number of seats, and platforms have been lengthened at four stations.
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I recognise, however, as do the Government, the local support for other proposals to improve rail services between east Lancashire and Manchester. We recognise the support for the half-hour all day service from Blackburn to Manchester, which many have expressed support for and which is under discussion tonight. That is why the Department for Transport has engaged at considerable length with Blackburn with Darwen council, Burnley borough council and Lancashire county council on finding a way to deliver the service improvements that those local authorities and the local communities want.
I have been asked this evening to give advice on taking forward an improvement programme. The first stage has already been achieved—obtaining the support of the relevant local authorities. It is only when a commitment is made by the local authorities to prioritise these things locally that they have any chance of getting off the ground. It has become clear over recent years that rail service improvements between east Lancashire and Manchester have become a high priority locally, and the work that the councils have commissioned from Network Rail to carry out studies as part of their GRIP—governance for rail investment—process to identify infrastructure requirements is another important precondition for a credible proposal to enhance infrastructure and services. So again we are seeing this process being taken very seriously and important steps being taken, which are essential if there is to be a successful conclusion along the lines that the right hon. Member for Blackburn would like.
The local authorities, I understand, have also been working with Northern Rail to carry out demand forecasting and to estimate operating costs. That kind of foresight and commitment from local authorities has meant that they have been able to take advantage of some of the funding opportunities that have emerged over the last couple of years in relation to east Lancashire services. The most striking example of that has already been mentioned this evening: subject to due diligence, Burnley borough council has secured the funding from the regional growth fund for the Todmorden curve to enable through trains to run between Accrington, Burnley and Manchester. That will provide a considerable boost for regeneration of the Weavers Triangle area, as well as important benefits for businesses and for commuters to access those important job opportunities in Manchester, about which my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen addressed the House. I congratulate the borough and county councils on their success. That demonstrates that such projects can get off the ground if the right work is done.
The Clitheroe-Blackburn-Manchester line currently has an hourly service. We have heard this evening that there is concern locally that that is not frequent enough. It is supplemented by additional services at peak times between Blackburn and Manchester. I am aware that introducing at least a half-hourly service to Blackburn throughout the day is supported by Blackburn with Darwen council, Lancashire county council and Transport for Greater Manchester, as well as right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken this evening.
As we have also heard, much of the route between Blackburn and Bolton is single track. That means that infrastructure improvements would need to be delivered
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if a reliable half-hourly service were to be introduced in both directions throughout the day. My hon. Friend mentioned the idea of doubling the line. Network Rail concluded that a longer passing loop at Darwen and an increase in line speed capability at Turton crossing were the appropriate improvements, and work is going on to establish how much they are likely to cost.
Since this is a service generating primarily local benefits, it is for the local authority to identify a funding source for the investment needed to make it possible, but one possible source of funding would be the next major local transport schemes budget. This is the kind of project for which it is well worth putting forward a bid to that funding stream. Consistent with our wider localism agenda, we are currently considering how we might enlarge the participation of local and sub-national bodies in the decisions that are taken on how to allocate that major local transport fund, and we continue to engage with key stakeholders on our proposals. We will give further information shortly about the whole major local scheme that we envisage working in the future. We hope that there will be a bigger say for the local and regional stakeholders in the decisions.
If the proposal to introduce half-hourly services on the line were awarded funding under this budget, I am advised that a scheme could conceivably be implemented by December 2016, which might tie in well with the north-west electrification programme and the Ordsall Chord, which we expect to have been completed by that date. Consistent with the approach taken by the previous Government, if additional off-peak services require an ongoing subsidy, that would need to be funded by the local authorities for at least the first three years of operation. It is not clear whether in the long term these services would require additional subsidy, but many such local services tend to require subsidy, certainly in the early years. If the additional services continued to demonstrate a good business case after a three-year period of local subsidy, the Government would consider funding them if funds are available. The local authorities will need to look at that to identify the funding to subsidise for three years any enhanced service that they seek to take forward.
As a further relevant matter, I should mention that we plan soon to issue a consultation document on the decentralisation of decision making in relation to our railways generally. This could provide an opportunity for local authorities and PTEs to have a greater say in policy and decisions on local rail services, such as the Clitheroe-Blackburn-Manchester service. Decisions on this obviously await the consultation and its outcome, but services such as the ones that we have been discussing might be appropriate for devolution to a local body, playing a bigger role in relation to important aspects of the rail service and how the subsidy of those services is allocated within a particular area. But even without further devolution, a process is in place that could enable local authorities to take a scheme forward to enhance the Clitheroe to Manchester service. It does mean that they may have to make choices about whether the scheme is a higher priority than other transport choices in their area, but I can assure the right hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend that we will continue to provide help and advice to the local authorities as they work with the rail industry further to develop the scheme and identify the funding needed if it is to go forward.
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I want to put this debate in the context of the Government’s wider improvements to rail in the north-west. In 2010, as the right hon. Gentleman mentioned, we confirmed the electrification of the so-called north-west triangle of routes, namely Manchester to Liverpool, Liverpool to Wigan North Western and Manchester to Preston via Bolton. This programme of electrification will result in faster journey times on these routes. The first stage, between Manchester and Earlestown, is due to be completed by December 2013, and the whole scheme should be finished by December 2016.
In March 2011, the Chancellor announced the go-ahead for a major element of the northern hub package—the construction of the Ordsall Chord. This important stretch of new line will enable trains from Manchester airport to Leeds and the north-east to serve Manchester Victoria alongside trains from Liverpool, which will be diverted from their present route to operate via the more direct Chat Moss route. This will substantially reduce journey times between Manchester and Leeds and release capacity at Piccadilly station for additional services from the south and east of the city. All those measures should help to open up job opportunities in the way that my hon. Friend referred to and enable more people to take advantage of the economic vitality of Manchester.
In his autumn statement the Chancellor announced that the route between Manchester, Leeds and York would be electrified. This announcement, coupled with the Ordsall Chord and a programme of other line speed improvements already funded, will cut journey times between Liverpool and Newcastle by up to 45 minutes. We believe that those improvements will deliver significant
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benefits across the north of England, particularly in the north-west, revitalising the Manchester economy to the benefit of the surrounding areas, including, of course, east Lancashire.
As well as cutting journey times and reducing costs, the improvements that we have announced and our programme of electrification will release diesel trains for use elsewhere on the network, making expansion of services on other lines easier to deliver. We will be considering further improvements to our railways in the north of England and other elements of the northern hub package in the high level output specification, which we will be publishing in the summer, on improvements that can be funded by the Government between 2014 and 2019. In the meantime, Network Rail is undertaking further development work on each element of the package to establish with greater clarity how much they would cost and to gauge the strength of the business case.
Our priority is to reduce the budget deficit, but we fully recognise the need to invest in improving our transport network, because of the regeneration and job opportunities that it can deliver. We are also pressing forward with a programme of reform on our railways so that we can reduce the cost of running them to give better value for money for taxpayers and fare payers, and also make it more realistic and viable to deliver the kind of improvements to services that hon. Members have called for tonight.