Estimates 2012-13
That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure by the Home Office—
(1) further resources, not exceeding £5,223,694,000, be authorised for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1919 of Session 2010-12,
(2) further resources, not exceeding £274,499,000, be authorised for use for capital purposes as so set out, and
(3) a further sum, not exceeding £5,536,178,000, be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised by Parliament.
That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013, for expenditure by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—
(1) further resources, not exceeding £1,218,567,000, be authorised for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1919 of Session 2010-12,
(2) further resources, not exceeding £53,850,000, be authorised for use for capital purposes as so set out, and
(3) a further sum, not exceeding £1,152,371,000, be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised by Parliament.
The Deputy Speaker then put the Question on the outstanding Estimates (Standing Order No. 55).
4 July 2012 : Column 1019
Estimates 2012-13
That, for the year ending with 31 March 2013—
(1) further resources, not exceeding £254,603,561,000, be authorised for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1794, 1919, 1924, and 1927 of Session 2010-12, and in HC 8 and 342 of this Session,
(2) further resources, not exceeding £26,235,886,000, be authorised for use for capital purposes as so set out, and
(3) a further sum, not exceeding £246,245,378,000, be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised by Parliament.—(Jeremy Wright.)
Ordered, That a Bill be brought in upon the foregoing Resolutions relating to Estimates, 2012-13;
That the Chairman of Ways and Means, Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer, Danny Alexander, Miss Chloe Smith, Mr David Gauke and Mr Mark Hoban bring in the Bill.
Presentation and First Reading
Mr Mark Hoban accordingly presented a Bill to authorise the use of resources for the year ending with 31 March 2013; to authorise both the issue of sums out of the Consolidated Fund and the application of income for that year; and to appropriate the supply authorised for that year by this Act and by the Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Act 2012.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 54).
Deferred Divisions
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 41A(3)),
That, at this day’s sitting, Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply to the Motion in the name of Secretary Theresa May relating to Terrorism.—(Jeremy Wright.)
4 July 2012 : Column 1020
Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism
7.2 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (James Brokenshire): I beg to move,
That the draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) (Amendment) Order 2012, which was laid before this House on 2 July, be approved.
The Government are determined to do all we can to minimise the threat from terrorism to the UK and our interests abroad. Proscription of terrorist organisations is an important part of the Government’s strategy to tackle terrorist activities. We would therefore like to add the organisation Indian Mujahideen—the IM—to the list of 47 international terrorist organisations, amending schedule 2 to the Terrorism Act 2000. This is the 10th proscription under the 2000 Act.
Section 3 of the 2000 Act provides a power for the Home Secretary to proscribe an organisation if she believes it is currently concerned in terrorism. The Act specifies that an organisation is concerned in terrorism if it commits or participates in acts of terrorism; prepares for terrorism; promotes or encourages terrorism, including through the unlawful glorification of terrorism; or is otherwise concerned in terrorism. The Home Secretary may proscribe an organisation only if she believes it is concerned in terrorism. If the test is met, she may then exercise her discretion to proscribe the organisation.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I thank the Minister for giving way so early in what will probably be a short contribution. What reviews have been conducted of all the other organisations on the list? Every time these orders come up, we seem to add to the list, rather than subtract from it.
James Brokenshire: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me the opportunity to tell the House that an annual review is undertaken in respect of all the proscribed organisations. I also note the recommendation from David Anderson, the independent reviewer on terrorism, in respect of a mechanism for de-proscription. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we are examining that recommendation carefully, and that we will respond to David Anderson’s report in due course.
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): The Select Committee’s report on the roots of radicalism supported what the Government were doing, but suggested that the matter needed to be looked at. It is six months since the publication of the report. Given that the Minister is now bringing another organisation before the House, will he tell us when we can expect a definitive answer from the Government on what form that mechanism will take?
James Brokenshire:
I acknowledge the Select Committee’s interest. Indeed, I gave evidence to the Committee, and I remember the questions that the right hon. Gentleman asked me during the evidence sessions. The matter is being considered, in relation to the Select Committee’s report and in the context of the recommendation made by the independent reviewer. All I can say is that we will make a further announcement in due course. Unfortunately, I cannot give the right hon. Gentleman a more specific answer now, but I
4 July 2012 : Column 1021
acknowledge the point that he is making, and we will respond to the points made by the Select Committee and by the independent reviewer shortly.
We recognise that proscription is a tough but necessary power. Its effect is that the proscribed organisation is outlawed and unable to operate in the United Kingdom. Proscription makes it a criminal offence for a person to belong to, or invite support for, the proscribed organisation. It is also a criminal offence to arrange a meeting in support of the organisation, or to wear clothing or carry articles in public that could arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual was a member or supporter of the relevant organisation.
Given the wide-ranging impact of proscription, the Home Secretary exercises her power to proscribe an organisation only after thoroughly reviewing all the available relevant information and evidence on that organisation. Having carefully considered all the evidence, she firmly believes that IM is involved in terrorism. Hon. Members will appreciate that I am unable to go into much detail, but I am able to give them the following information. IM is a terrorist organisation based in India. It emerged in 2007. It uses violence in its attempts to achieve its stated objectives of creating an Islamic state in India and of implementing sharia law there.
The organisation has frequently perpetrated attacks on civilian targets, such as markets, with the intention of maximising casualties. In May 2008, for example, a spate of bomb detonations in the city of Jaipur killed 63, and in September last year an explosion outside the high court in Delhi reportedly killed 12 and injured 65. IM has sought to incite sectarian hatred in India by deliberately targeting Hindu places of worship. An example of that was an attack on a prayer ceremony in Varanasi, which killed a child, in December 2010.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I understand and wholeheartedly support the reason for proscribing the organisation here, but is it proscribed in India as well?
James Brokenshire: Yes, the organisation is proscribed in India and in several other countries, including the United States and New Zealand. The proscription here will align the UK with the emerging international consensus.
It is important, in the context of this order, to state that the group is also known to target areas popular with tourists. A shooting incident in Old Delhi wounded two Taiwanese tourists in September 2010, and there was an unsuccessful attempt to detonate an explosive device at the scene. The organisation has also publicly threatened to attack British tourists, so it clearly poses a threat to British nationals in India.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): My hon. Friend has mentioned the fact that the United States and other countries have also condemned these terrorist organisations. What international co-ordination is there to ensure that if such an organisation is proscribed in one country, it is proscribed in other countries that we see as our allies?
James Brokenshire:
I understand my hon. Friend’s particular interest in this subject. Clearly, we need to be satisfied that a particular organisation meets the statutory
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requirements for proscription, which I outlined at the start of my contribution. We seek to draw on information wherever it is available so that we can determine that the relevant steps are met in respect of the statutory tests, thus giving the Home Secretary the discretion to exercise a determination to proscribe an organisation.
We believe there is ample evidence to suggest that IM is concerned in terrorism, and I believe it is right to add the organisation to the list of proscribed organisations under schedule 2 to the 2000 Act. I commend the order to the House.
7.10 pm
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): I start by thanking the Minister for his courtesy in having discussions with me about the order. Proscription is serious, and it is quite right that the decision to proscribe an organisation is not taken lightly. The consequences of proscription are very serious, not least because it potentially criminalises the group’s members. Proscription must be reserved for the most dangerous groups where there is clear evidence of terrorist activity.
Under the regulations laid out in part II of the Terrorism Act 2000, a group may be proscribed only if the Home Secretary believes that the organisation commits or participates in acts of terrorism and the Opposition are confident that there is evidence to support the Minister’s assertions and will support the proscription.
I would like to ask the Minister a few questions about the Indian Mujahideen. It is quite clear that it is a terrorist organisation. Indeed, as the Minister set out, it has been behind some of the most appalling acts of terrorism of recent years—most horrifically, the Mumbai attacks of November 2008, in which nearly 170 people were killed. The IM also shares responsibility for the general decline in the security situation on the Indian subcontinent.
It is important, however, to look at the group’s history and to understand the wider movement from which it developed. It is particularly important to recognise the strong links between the IM and the Students Islamic Movement of India—a movement first identified back in 1977. In 1986, the SIMI called for the liberation of India’s Muslims, and evolved into a militant organisation at some point in the 1990s.
The Royal United Services Institute suggests that the IM needs to be understood as a product of the SIMI. This is important because, as far as I am aware, the Government have not banned the SIMI. Will the Minister explain why the SIMI has not been included in the order? As I understand it, if an IM branch converts back to become a SIMI group, it will not be proscribed and the Government will be unable to act against its members. Is that correct? Will the Minister confirm whether he considers the SIMI group to be a terrorist organisation? We also know of concerns about links between the IM and Lashkar-e-Taiba, which has also been known to commit attacks on the Indian subcontinent and has already been proscribed.
Let me move on to other factors to which the Home Secretary has to give consideration in making a decision to proscribe. The first is to look at the nature and scale of an organisation’s activities. Will the Minister confirm
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whether the decision to proscribe this organisation now is a result of evidence suggesting an increase in the scale of the IM’s activities?
Secondly, the specific threat posed to British nationals overseas has to be considered. There are many British nationals in India, particularly in Mumbai. Sadly, British nationals have already been caught up in terrorist attacks in India. Does the fact that the Government are proscribing this organisation now mean that the UK Government recognise that there is an increased level of threat in India and to British nationals in particular?
The Minister has set out evidence of the targeting of UK nationals, and we know that the IM, being active in India, also has a presence in Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh. I understand that it uses the porous borders between Nepal and Bangladesh and Bangladesh and India to avoid Indian security on the Pakistan border when it acquires weapons from factions based in Pakistan. May I also ask whether there is any evidence linking that group to forces attacking UK troops operating in Afghanistan?
Thirdly, there is the issue of the extent of the organisation’s presence in the United Kingdom, and the question of whether any specific threat is posed to the UK. Is there any evidence that the IM is active in the UK, or receives direct support from it? Have the Government any estimate of the number of people in the UK who might be affected by the proscription of the group?
According to a 2011 report by the Royal United Services Institute,
“SIMI's (and, thereafter, IM's) distinguishing characteristic was that it was, essentially, home-grown. Its activists and leaders are virtually all Indian.”
Does the decision to proscribe the group reflect a change in its composition? Is there now a greater IM presence outside India? In particular, have links been found between that group and groups operating in the middle east and Europe?
As I said earlier, there are strong links between IM and the Students Islamic Movement of India. Will the Minister tell us whether SIMI is known to the Home Office, and whether there has been a proper assessment of its activities in the United Kingdom? Specifically, is there any evidence that it has operated in UK universities, colleges or mosques, or within communities? Is there any evidence that the IM has forged links with other Islamic terrorist organisations operating in the UK? As I said earlier, there is evidence that Lashkar-e-Taiba has given logistical support to the IM. Is there now evidence to suggest that the IM has developed links with any other groups? In particular, is there any evidence of links between the IM and any other groups on the UK’s proscribed list, which I think now contains about 47 international terrorist organisations?
Fourthly, the Home Secretary should bear in mind the need to support other members of the international community in the global fight against terrorism. The Minister has said that the UK is proscribing the IM when that has already been done by some of our international allies: India, New Zealand and the United States. Why is that? Did India ask the UK to proscribe the IM? Did discussions include a discussion of the role of other groups, including SIMI? Will this have any European consequences, and have any discussions taken place with our European allies?
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Today is the fifth anniversary of the first Prime Minister’s Question Time after my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) became Prime Minister. On that occasion, the then Leader of the Opposition chose proscription as his first topic, using the opportunity to attack the then Government for not proscribing Hizb ut-Tahrir. He said:
“Hizb ut-Tahrir. We think it should be banned—why has it not happened?”—[Official Report, 4 July 2007; Vol. 462, c. 951.]
Five years later, the Minister stated in a letter to me:
“this is an organisation about which we have significant concerns and their activities are kept under review”.
Will he explain today why Hizb ut-Tahrir still has not been banned, five years after the present Prime Minister called for such action?
7.18 pm
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD): I thank the Minister for setting out so clearly why the coalition Government intend to proscribe this organisation. He could have listed, I believe, nine separate incidents in which it was involved between 2007 and 2011. It is clearly a prolific and dangerous organisation.
The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) asked a great many questions, to which I can add just one. I understand that the Minister may not be able to answer it—and many of the other questions—for security reasons, but is there any evidence of activity in the UK and specifically of, perhaps, charity work to support that organisation?
7.19 pm
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I do not wish to detain the House, as I know many of the Members present want us to move on. I can tell them that, given what we have heard from the Front Benches, I do not believe that the House will divide.
When we proscribe an organisation, it is important that we do so carefully, because it is something we do very rarely. Such a move is also almost never opposed by the Opposition. That has certainly been the case throughout all the years that I have been Home Affairs Committee Chair and, indeed, in Parliament—and throughout all the years you have been in Parliament, Madam Deputy Speaker. In all that time, I have never known Government and Opposition to disagree on the proscription of an organisation. We will support the Government order because I am sure that the Home Secretary will have taken good advice before proscribing this organisation, and that she will not have taken the decision lightly.
However, the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), was right to press the Minister on a number of issues concerning the operation of the organisation within the UK. The Minister is right: the Indian Government have banned the organisation, as it has conducted a number of atrocities, most recently in Mumbai in 2011. However, I represent a constituency that, on the last census, has more people of Indian origin than any other constituency in the country, and I am not aware of this organisation operating in the UK. The Home Secretary obviously knows better than I, so I am happy to take her lead, but it is important that we proscribe for a reason.
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The hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood) rightly says we should not act in isolation. The Minister named five countries, including New Zealand, but there needs to be better co-ordination among countries, so that when we ban an organisation in our country, that applies also in other countries in the EU, because it would not of course be acceptable for that organisation to continue to operate in France, for instance, while being proscribed in the UK. I am sure that when the Minister replies he will confirm that we will also be asking other EU countries to make this decision, as well as other international organisations with which we are associated, and that we will act together with other countries that are friendly to the UK.
My main point goes back to an issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), however, and it is specifically about proscription. When the Select Committee produced its unanimous report into the roots of radicalism—I note that the hon. Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis), a distinguished brain on the Committee, is present—we were very clear about the issue of de-proscription. We looked at the example of the People’s Mujahedeen Organisation of Iran. It took the then Government to court and it won, and that Government had to allow it to continue. We do not want to go along that path again. There needs to be a clear route for organisations that have become clean, or that have got rid of their terrorist operations—and for their supporters who may support certain causes but who do not support terrorism—to be able to be part of an exercise of de-proscription.
The excellent independent reviewer, David Anderson, proposes time-limiting proscription, so that Governments have to come back in two years and renew the proscription. The Select Committee has not taken a view on the time limit, but we certainly feel that there ought to be some such mechanism. The Minister has given us an answer, but I am afraid that it is similar to some of the letters I have received from the Home Secretary and other Ministers that use the words “in due course”. I know that when we use the seasons—spring and summer, for example—that can mean virtually anything and I know that “shortly” does not necessarily mean tomorrow, but “in due course” sounds like quite a long time. Clearly this will not happen before the recess, as that is in 10 days’ time, but it would be good to have a timetable so that people know what to expect.
I raise these issues because of my concern about my constituents who are members of the Tamil community. They still face difficulties in booking halls when they want to discuss Tamil issues because of the ban that remains on the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. As the Minister knows, the LTTE lost the war in Sri Lanka, effectively all its leaders were killed and the organisation no longer exists. If he wants to take advice other than mine, he should talk to my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes) and especially to the hon. Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott), who is, of course, a member of the Minister’s party and the chairman of the all-party group on Tamils. These members of the Tamil community wish to operate within the law and have no connection with the LTTE, but they still
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have difficulties in raising money for compassionate and charitable reasons because of the ban that remains on that group.
How do we de-proscribe an organisation that does not exist? Who makes the application when no members of the LTTE are operating in the United Kingdom? Who will write a letter to the Home Secretary to say, “Dear Home Secretary, please de-proscribe us” when the group no longer exists? The previous Government, whom my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) and I supported—although my hon. Friend was not a Home Office Minister in that Government, so I cannot hold her responsible—were unable to come to this House and say that they would de-proscribe any organisation. How will the Government demonstrate their good faith, therefore, not just as regards what they are doing today, which I fully support for the reasons set out by the Minister—many of which we obviously take on good faith because we have not seen the files—but by ensuring that there is a mechanism in law that will satisfy our constituents in cases such as the one that I have raised?
7.27 pm
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I shall be brief, but I want to follow up on the comments made by the Chair of the Select Committee on Home Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), and the questions asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), who speaks on behalf of the Opposition.
I feel that we should be cautious when we proscribe any organisation. As the Minister pointed out, the effect is that anti-terrorist law rather than normal criminal law applies to that organisation, not just in this country but in other countries. It almost ends up criminalising entire communities, as my right hon. Friend for Leicester East mentioned in the context of the Tamil community, but it affects many others too. We should not always reach out to anti-terror laws to deal with our problems in security; we should instead use the criminal law that we have.
The other effect of banning an organisation from a particular community can be to choke off perfectly open and legitimate political debate and deter people from taking part in normal political debate. It might also have the perverse effect of encouraging some people in completely the wrong direction. We should be more than slightly cautious about that.
These issues are not new and they have been raised many times. I realise than the Minister probably cannot give a full answer today, but I have asked questions concerning the Anderson inquiry and its proposals. There are a substantial number of organisations on that list and, as my right hon. Friend pointed out, the LTTE is a banned organisation although it no longer exists, so there does not seem to be a great deal of point in continuing that ban. Will the Minister give us a more specific indication than “in due course” of when he will be able to come before the House with a substantial reply to the queries of many Members about some of the organisations listed?
Will the Minister also give a strong message to the law enforcement officers in this country at all levels? If a specific organisation is banned, there is clearly a legal
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sanction against that organisation. However, it is not a legal sanction against all members of the community or against legitimate political debate. It is not a legal sanction against normal political discourse but, as my right hon. Friend pointed out, some people somewhere hear that the LTTE is banned and therefore believe that all Tamil activity is banned. That is obviously not the case, but it is a message that some people misunderstand, or choose to misunderstand. If the Minister would set the record right, that would be extremely helpful. I look forward to his reply, and I hope that he can give a substantial answer to the report by the Home Affairs Committee sooner rather than later. I realise that that will not be before the summer recess, but if we could at least have an indication that it would be available in early autumn that would be helpful.
7.30 pm
James Brokenshire: With the leave of the House, I shall be brief. Important points have been made, and I will reflect on de-proscription and the other things that have been raised this evening. I shall certainly write to the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who chairs the Select Committee, about relevant matters. I welcome support across the House for the measure. Unfortunately, there are a number of things on which I cannot comment because of intelligence and security matters, and I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will understand.
A number of issues were highlighted with regard to specific organisations. The Home Secretary has to be satisfied through the tests that I outlined that an organisation is connected with terrorism, so this is not a step that is taken lightly—it is a serious issue. I hope that the House understands that the Home Secretary has considered the issue carefully and that the IM has been engaged in indiscriminate mass-casualty attacks in India. I commend the order to the House.
That the draft Terrorism Act 2000 (Proscribed Organisations) (Amendment) Order, which was laid before this House on 2 July, be approved.
Business without Debate
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (5 JULY)
That at the sitting on Thursday 5 July the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the Motions in the name of (1) Edward Miliband and (2) the Prime Minister relating to Professional Standards in the Banking Industry not later than a quarter past five o’clock; such Questions shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved; the Questions may be put after the moment of interruption; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.—(Mr Syms.)
Delegated Legislation
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): With the leave of the House, we shall take motions 6 to 11 together.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
4 July 2012 : Column 1028
That the draft Public Bodies (Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission: Abolition and Transfer of Functions) Order 2012, which was laid before this House on 23 April 2012, in the previous Session of Parliament, be approved.
That the draft Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2012, which was laid before this House on 22 May, be approved.
That the draft Broadcasting (Local Digital Television Programme Services and Independent Productions) (Amendment) Order 2012, which was laid before this House on 23 May, be approved.
That the Fishing Boats (Satellite-Tracking Devices and Electronic Reporting) (England) Scheme 2012 (S.I., 2012, No. 1375), dated 21 May 2012, a copy of which was laid before this House on 24 May, be approved.
That the draft Neighbourhood Planning (Referendums) Regulations 2012, which were laid before this House on 11 June, be approved.
That the draft Police and Crime Panels (Modification of Functions) Regulations 2012, which were laid before this House on 11 June, be approved. —(Mr Syms.)
European Union Documents
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 119(11)),
That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 13943/11, a draft Decision of the European Parliament and of the Council setting up an information exchange mechanism with regard to intergovernmental agreements between Member States and third countries in the field of energy; and supports the Government’s efforts to achieve greater transparency in intergovernmental energy agreements, whilst ensuring that the provisions of the draft Decision do not alter the balance of competence between the Commission and Member States. —(Mr Syms.)
Petitions
Citroën (Car Charges)
7.32 pm
John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I have a petition from my constituent, Mr D. Pickerill, who bought a Citroën car on 6 April 2011 for which he paid £14,615, although it had been advertised from 1 April 2011 for £12,995, or just under £13,000. He was required to pay the higher price because he ordered it before 1 April, which is really bad practice by Citroën. The petition states
“Wherefore your Petitioner prays that your Honourable House will urge the Government to ensure that fair trade remains a principle of doing business within the United Kingdom; and bring forward legislation to ensure that all transactions in the UK are equitable and that companies, such as Citroën, cannot advertise a product for one price and sell it at a higher price.
4 July 2012 : Column 1029
And your Petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever pray”.
Following is the full text of the petition:
[The Humble Petition of Mr D Pickerill,
That the Petitioner bought a Citroën C4 on 6 April 2011, which the Petitioner declares was purchased from Citroën for £14,615, but had been advertised from 1 April 2011 for £12,995; further declares that the Petitioner believes that he was wilfully overcharged; and declares that despite the assistance of the Honourable Member for Birmingham Yardley, Citroën have refused to refund or properly explain the difference.
Wherefore your Petitioner prays that your Honourable House will urge the Government to ensure that fair trade remains a principle of doing business within the United Kingdom; and bring forward legislation to ensure that all transactions in the UK are equitable and that companies, such as Citroën, cannot advertise a product for one price and sell it at a higher price.
And your Petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever pray, etc.]
Bus Services in Teesside and East Cleveland
7.33 pm
Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab): The petition states:
The Petition of residents of East Cleveland and Middlesbrough,
Declares that the Petitioners believe that bus services in Teesside provided by Arriva have been second rate for too long; that buses do not run on time, services have been cut back and rising fares are threatening to price out vulnerable, elderly and young people from using public transport for educational purposes, as a means of transport for work and for accessing health services; and further declares that the Petitioners believe that Government cuts to subsidies for local bus services are making this already poor situation worse,
The 490 Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to reverse cuts to local bus subsidies and take all possible steps to ensure that improvements are made to bus services in East Cleveland and Middlesbrough.
And the Petitioners remain, etc.
Rural Transport (Sadberge, Darlington)
7.34 pm
Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): This is a petition on behalf of 127 residents of the small community of Sadberge in Sedgefield, who are deeply concerned about cuts to their local bus services. All bus services will be removed from that community at the end of the year.
The Petition of residents of Sadberge,
Declares that the Petitioners believe that in order to maintain a reliable rural transport network in Darlington Borough additional funding needs to be provided for rural bus services.
The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to ensure that there is funding in place to maintain the provision of reliable rural bus services in the Darlington Borough.
And the Petitioners remain, etc.
4 July 2012 : Column 1030
Navitus Wind Farm, Swanage
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mr Francois.)
7.36 pm
Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con): I am grateful to have this debate on an issue of great concern to people in my constituency and others along the coast. I welcome this opportunity to talk about a proposal that could change the character of our coastline for decades. The Navitus Bay offshore wind farm will cover 76 square miles of seabed owned by the Crown Estate. It is to be located to the south and west of The Needles on the Isle of Wight and will be clearly visible from Swanage, one of the seaside resorts in my constituency.
The project is a 50:50 joint venture between two foreign firms—the Dutch energy company Eneco and the French utility giant EDF. It forms part of round 3 of the Department of Energy and Climate Change’s programme of offshore development, which is designed to generate 33 GW of energy by 2020. Working at full capacity, the wind farm will generate enough electricity for about 800,000 homes. It will create jobs and foster engineering and marine-based skills, and it forms part of a regeneration agenda for some of the most run-down areas on the south coast. Put like that, and in the context of the Government’s enthusiasm for renewable energy, it seems almost irresistible.
However, Dorset and East Devon’s stunning Jurassic coast is the only natural UNESCO world heritage site in England. The Great Barrier reef has the same status, and if we were to suggest building 300 wind turbines off that, the Australians would tell us in typically blunt fashion exactly where to go. World heritage status was granted to the Jurassic coast 10 years ago in recognition of our glorious coastline, which UNESCO describes as being of “outstanding universal value”. It is a prized designation, and a magnet for 16 million visitors every year. Tourists spend nearly £700 million a year there and support more than 45,000 jobs. And yes, the unspoilt view is key to this success, so why are we considering jeopardising this jewel by siting a giant wind farm just offshore?
The precise details have yet to be confirmed when the three phases of public consultation are closed in autumn next year, but we know enough to be concerned. The aim is to generate between 900 MW and 1,200 MW of wind energy a year. That translates into a need for between 100 and 333 turbines. Each, depending upon capacity, will be somewhere between 150 and 210 metres tall. To put that in perspective, one of the larger turbines would dwarf the Gherkin in the City. Just one of these giant turbines would be significant; 100 of them, or more if smaller turbines are used, would blight the coastline for years to come.
Importantly, the proximity of this wind farm to our shoreline totally contradicts the Government’s own guidelines. The Department of Energy and Climate Change suggests that such developments should be more than 23 km from the coast. Unfortunately, the majority of this project is inside that limit. Indeed, the closest point is a mere 13 km away. Interestingly, there was, and presumably still is, the possibility of locating the turbines further out to sea. Originally, the Crown Estate earmarked a far larger area for the wind farm. Inevitably, the site chosen by Eneco and its partners is
4 July 2012 : Column 1031
the closest to shore in depths of between 20 and 50 metres, which is clearly intended to reduce the cost. That would indicate, rather worryingly, that whatever the result of the public consultations there is little room for manoeuvre. The truth is that Navitus Bay will be too big and too close.
This is not just nimbyism. Those who think that a simple view should not impede our future energy requirements should think on this: UNESCO considered withdrawing the world heritage designation given to the beautiful and secluded site of Mont Saint Michel in France when it was threatened by just three wind turbines 20 km away. The French electricity firm involved quickly backed down and Mont Saint Michel remains undisturbed, surrounded by a permanent 40 by 80 km exclusion zone.
I have written to the UNESCO world heritage centre to warn that our own natural world heritage site is in jeopardy. It has written to the ambassador to the United Kingdom’s permanent delegation to UNESCO and to the advisory body of the World Heritage Committee. It has also demanded a visual analysis of the potential negative impact on the coastline. In the visual analysis I have seen, viewed from Durlston, a viewpoint in Swanage, a full third of the horizon is taken up by wind turbines. To be clear, that is the same Durlston that, following a £5 million restoration, is called the “Gateway to the Jurassic coast”. There would be a stretch of water between the land and the wind farm, but the undisturbed and peaceful skyline would be broken by man’s folly.
The Department of Energy and Climate Change has confirmed that Britain is still dedicated to producing 15% of the country’s energy from renewables by 2020, yet we know that wind energy generation has proved intermittent and unreliable. At peak output, wind farms average only a third of their proposed capacity, so wind energy has to be supplemented by conventional power stations or nuclear energy—not the stuff of green dreams—which are expensive to build and neither is renewable, but they will keep the lights on. Connecting Navitus Bay to the grid would be far costlier than anyone anticipated. The electricity networks’ strategy group reported this year on what it rather coyly describes as “regional connection issues”. Put simply, our networks cannot cope with carrying the extra capacity. The ENSG estimates that £450 million will need to be spent on “system reinforcement” in the south-west, which includes the proposed Navitus Bay development, before any electricity flows.
Then there is the vexed question of subsidies, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) has drawn our attention to so successfully. To make wind farms attractive, investors were lured with promises of excessive financial incentives, and 105 Members of this House have already protested against those subsidies.
Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): I commend my hon. Friend for securing this debate and support him absolutely. The 105 signatures actually related to subsidies for onshore wind farms, but we know that the subsidies going into offshore wind are even greater and even less affordable for the taxpayer.
Richard Drax:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I shall come to that point and ask the Minister to reassure me that the subsidy withdrawal will also apply to offshore
4 July 2012 : Column 1032
wind farms. With households already struggling to pay their energy bills, the financial incentives for investors are almost obscene. The news yesterday that such subsidies will eventually be reduced to zero should deter companies hoping to exploit our energy crisis.
David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): Unfortunately, that news will not apply to schemes such as Navitus Bay because it will not be applied retrospectively, if ever it were to happen. Is my hon. Friend as concerned as I am that, based on the numbers he has quoted, the total subsidy for that wind farm over the next two decades would be in the order of £1.5 billion to £2 billion, which is an awful lot of money for other consumers to find?
Richard Drax: I entirely concur. At a time of austerity, when we are all looking for the pennies here and there to keep our country afloat, this is not a moment to dish out money to, in particular, foreign companies. That is what is so ironic: they are Dutch and French companies, not British.
To their credit, the companies involved, Navitus, Eneco and EDF, have consulted and are consulting those who live near to or use those waters, and they have promised to take their views into account. Opponents of Navitus believe that the giant turbines will have a catastrophic effect on the environment and on tourism. Millions of people do not flock to our coastline to watch turbine blades go round; they go for peace and a chance to escape this busy world in which we live.
I worry that our current planning guidelines will not help local people to defeat unwanted wind farm proposals. In a recent reply to my letter, the Minister explained that the Navitus Bay wind farm is a
“Nationally Significant Infrastructure Project under the planning act”.
As such, the project goes straight to the Planning Inspectorate, together with an environmental statement on the potential impact of the wind farm, and that, too, is prepared by the developer.
The Minister points out that the public may submit their views to the inspectorate, but he reminds me that the wind farm is part of our commitment to meet renewable targets. There is a hint of inevitability about his reply, and I should appreciate his reassurance that the scheme is not a foregone conclusion.
I fear, as with recent onshore wind farm planning appeals, that we may find inspectors citing renewable energy targets as more important than planning considerations. I sincerely hope that the national planning policy framework amendments suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry and by other colleagues in the House—in which we recommend that renewable energy targets should not be used by developers as a reason to override the unsuitability of specific locations, and that the wishes of local people should still be considered paramount—will be adopted in the case of offshore wind farm applications as well.
Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con):
Perhaps I should declare an interest as someone who has enjoyed sailing off the Jurassic coast. I assure my hon. Friend that this historic and wonderful coast is enjoyed not just by Members and the people of Dorset but by many tourists from miles around, so on behalf of many other south-east
4 July 2012 : Column 1033
MPs I support him. It is a valuable resource and a landmark of national importance, and that must not get lost in the planning process.
Richard Drax: I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. He is absolutely right, and I hope that the Minister and the Government listen to him, to us in the House, to the millions of people who live on our coastline and to the millions of others who go down to use it.
There are other sites, further away and less visible, if such a wind farm is unavoidable, but there are no other natural sites designated as world heritage sites in the entire country. I ask the Government to think very carefully about what they are doing before we blight one of the jewels in our coastal crown.
7.48 pm
Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con): It is a pleasure to make a brief contribution to this debate.
I shall not dwell on the points that my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) has made so eloquently about the philosophy behind offshore or, indeed, onshore wind, about which my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) has also spoken at length in the past, except to say, as my right hon. and noble Friend the Baroness Thatcher once did:
“Nothing is more obstinate than a fashionable consensus.”
This is a profoundly serious issue for my constituents and, indeed, for the entirety of the conurbation, and that is demonstrated by the fact that my hon. Friends the Members for Poole (Mr Syms) and for Christchurch (Mr Chope) and my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood)—the entire conurbation—are in the Chamber this evening to highlight our profound and real concerns and reservations.
Bournemouth is well known to Members, who go there for the party conferences and will have all stood in the Highcliff hotel and enjoyed the incredible views across the bay. The bay and the view are the hook on which our local tourism economy hangs. The vital prosperity of our area is dependent on that, and we have profound reservations about this scheme and what it may do to the tourism economy.
I have extreme concerns about the process of consultation in which Eneco is involved. The initial consultation did not fill us with confidence; it included questions such as:
“How far do you agree with the following statement?” ‘People have a ‘not in my back yard’ attitude to wind parks’…. How far do you agree with the following statement? ‘I am happy to live close to an offshore wind park if it helps to combat climate change’…How many average households’ energy consumption do you think an offshore wind park can produce in one year?”
Those are not open-minded consultation questions, but dogma-driven ones.
We also have real concerns about the inability so far of the company to provide us with real graphics about what the park will look like. The company keeps telling us that it cannot yet do that because it does not know where in the development area the farm will be, how many turbines there will be or what height they will be.
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If the company does not know all those things, I find it strange that it can tell us exactly the quantity of energy the wind farm is intended to produce. When the company does give us illustrative graphics, they are of a dusky winter scene. We want them to show the wind farm at the height of the season on a clear, blue-sky day or on a clear night, so that we can see what it would mean for the area.
We are concerned about the economic impact assessment. In fairness, the company is seeking to talk to more than 400 businesses, but some are up to 10 miles away from the coastal area. That will not give us meaningful data about the potential impact on our area.
I close with a simple point, one of the most important that my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset made. I would love the Minister to give us a firm and detailed reply. It is about proximity to the shore. Eneco’s preferred site is 7 nautical miles from the coast, but the Department of Energy and Climate Change offshore energy assessment 2 says that new offshore wind farm generation capacity
“should be sited away from the coast, generally outside 12 nautical miles”.
The same report goes on to acknowledge that
“The environmental sensitivity of coastal areas is not uniform, and in certain cases new offshore wind farm projects may be acceptable”.
“In certain cases”—I find it inconceivable that anyone could judge that an exception could be made for the case under discussion. My hon. Friend talked about the beauty of the Jurassic coastline and I have dwelt on the beauty of our area, which attracts so much tourism.
The project may be some way off, but our constituents—mine and others across the conurbation—will not forgive us if we do not highlight today the impact that it could have. If it damages our area, our constituents would rightly not forgive those of us sent to this place to stand up for the interests of the areas that we serve.
7.52 pm
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friends the Members for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns) and for South Dorset (Richard Drax), the latter of whom secured this important debate. I will not detain hon. Members for long as I am looking forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
I echo some of our concerns in Bournemouth. Tourism is our biggest industry. It is the fifth biggest industry in the country, but it is certainly the biggest in Bournemouth. The wind farm installations will be sited 10 miles off the coast. We are supposed to be having a consultation, but we do not know three important things. We do not know the actual location of the wind farm within the upside-down “T” shape that has been given to the company by the Crown Estate. The company has chosen to take the very top of the “T” nearest the land, but we do not know exactly where the wind farm will be.
We also do not know the height of the turbines—whether they will be 100 metres or just over 200 metres high, and we do not know how many there will be. How can there be a consultation without some understanding of what we are considering and what might appear on our
4 July 2012 : Column 1035
doorstep? I am not conceptually against offshore wind farms, but there is a threshold in respect of which they could be accepted.
People have managed to locate a wind farm 20 miles off the coast of our fellow tourist town of Blackpool, and that shows that such projects can work. There are 102 turbines 150 metres high there, and they provide 370 MW. Three times that amount will be required for the Bournemouth area. If the turbines were situated 20 miles off the coast, well within the identified Crown Estate area, that would work. The argument that the cable that links the site to the mainland would be too long is ridiculous, because the one at Blackpool is 43 km long. We can reach a compromise that will ensure that the wind farms can exist, if that is what these companies want, but also guarantee that they does not affect the tourism that is so important to the people of Bournemouth.
7.54 pm
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Charles Hendry): I am grateful for the chance to respond to this brief debate. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for South Dorset (Richard Drax), for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns) and for Christchurch (Mr Chope), and I appreciate the support for their comments that they have received from other hon. Friends. It is clear from their measured and thoughtful speeches that this matter is of profound concern to them and to their constituents. Those of us who know this particularly stunning piece of coastline, which has been enjoyed not only by local residents but by many visitors over the years, know that it is a special part of the countryside and we understand the emotions that lie behind their comments. It is important to say at the outset that no planning application has yet been made. This is an outline proposal on where some potential offshore wind farms can be positioned, but it has not yet moved to being a formal application.
I hope that my hon. Friends accept that all of us as Government Members agree that the way forward for our energy policy has to be secure, affordable and low carbon. That means having a mix of new nuclear, carbon capture to support coal and gas into the future, and renewable sources. We need to combine that with energy efficiency, which is the cheapest way of delivering energy security. Renewable energy, and offshore wind in particular, is set to be a major part of our energy future. Wind is a low-carbon energy source. It is also a domestic source of energy supply, which means that it will play a role in our energy security because we do not have to rely on imported fuels in order to deliver it.
Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): Will my hon. Friend give way?
Charles Hendry: I hope that my hon. Friend will understand that I cannot because I have been given a relatively short time to respond and I want to pick up as many points as I can. If there is time at the end, I will be more than happy for him to contribute.
When we look around, we see that some of the most energy-rich countries in the world are also harnessing their renewable resources, be it solar power in Saudi Arabia, hydro power in Norway, or wind power in
4 July 2012 : Column 1036
Kazakhstan. If it makes sense for them to be harnessing their renewable resources, it surely makes sense for us to do so. For us, offshore wind is a crucial part of that equation because it is one of our most abundant and deliverable renewable resources.
My hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Jonathan Lord) talked about sailing on the southern coast. The fact that it is such a good area for sailing shows that the wind resource is strong there. That is one of the reasons the Crown Estate identified the area for potential development. Offshore wind generates more energy, and more often, than other technologies, and it is therefore right that we should be considering it.
My hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset talked about the designation of the scheme as a nationally significant infrastructure project. That is not a subjective assessment made on the basis of having looked at its merits; it is simply a recognition that it is a scheme of more than 50 MW. Any scheme of more than 50 MW has to go through the new national planning system, but following the changes that the Government have made, the final decisions will be made by Ministers.
We understand the local community’s concerns about the proposed development. While we are committed to a rapid increase in offshore wind, we need to ensure that wind farms are located in the right places, and that is the purpose of the planning process. We recognise the need to make balanced decisions on the appropriate location of offshore wind farms. We also recognise that we must take account of the views of local residents, and I give that absolute assurance to my hon. Friend. A proposal must take account of the interests of other users of the sea and of the impact on the environment. All renewable energy developments take place within a fair and transparent planning process that allows all relevant stakeholders to put forward their views on the likely impact of a proposal.
Let me turn to concerns about the site selection process for offshore wind in the context of local sensitivities. Decisions regarding the location of the round 3 offshore wind farm zones, which include Navitus bay, were made by the Crown Estate based on its own analysis of multiple constraints and opportunities. That is a broad zoning aspect. It is then for the planning process to make recommendations on individual applications. It is during the planning process that all relevant stakeholders will have the chance to ensure that their views are heard, including on aspects such as the potential visual impact of a proposal. We all recognise that the environmental sensitivity of coastal areas is not uniform, and neither are the particulars of individual wind farm applications. It is therefore right and proper that decisions will be taken on a case-by-case basis.
My understanding is that the developers for Navitus intend to submit an application to the Planning Inspectorate in the autumn next year. The inspectorate will decide whether the application can be accepted. It will examine in detail the application and all the relevant information, including the views of local stakeholders and the local community, before making its recommendation to the Secretary of State for a final determination. I know that my hon. Friends will understand that, as one of the Ministers involved in the determination process, it is not appropriate for me to go into the details of a specific application. However, I want to reassure them of the thoroughness of the process. Their views as local
4 July 2012 : Column 1037
Members of Parliament, the views of their local authorities and the views of their constituents will be an integral part of that process.
I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset that this is not a done deal. That a project is of a scale that makes it nationally significant does not mean that it automatically will go through the process without changes being made. I understand the reservations of my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West about the nature of the consultation, but that is an integral part of the process. It is important in determining the exact location that may ultimately be developed and the scale of the wind farm. We will try to accommodate the views of the local community. If there is not seen to be a full and proper consultation process, that will jeopardise the likelihood of success.
I hope that I have reassured my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset about the nature of the process, and about the chance for his and his constituents’ views to be heard.
Mr Ellwood: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Charles Hendry: I want to make some further observations, but if there is a chance for my hon. Friend to make some further comments, I will be pleased let him do so.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Minister, may I ask you to face towards me and to speak into the microphone? We keep losing the sound when you turn around.
Charles Hendry: I willingly accept your advice, Madam Deputy Speaker. Many people are quite glad when the sound goes off while I am speaking, but I know that in such an important debate the words are all important.
My hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset raised the potential impact of offshore wind farms on the
4 July 2012 : Column 1038
environment. That was a core part of his speech. The impacts on other sea users and the environment have to be assessed at a strategic level as part of the Department’s offshore energy strategic environmental assessment, and are assessed again at the application stage for each individual project in the environmental impact assessment. The most recent strategic environmental assessment report, which we published in 2011, concluded that at a strategic level, there were no overriding environmental considerations to prevent the achievement of up to 33 GW of offshore wind in the renewable energy zone and the English and Welsh territorial waters by 2020.
We should be in no doubt, however, that the level of ambition is linked directly to the costs involved. We are working with the industry to ensure that the costs of offshore wind can be brought down significantly. At the moment, the cost is about £140 per MWh; we need to see that brought down to £100 per MWh. The industry ambition of 18 GW by 2020 is absolutely dependent on progress being made in that direction. We understand that that has to happen in a way that works for consumers and the industry as investors. It is worth observing that, last year, there was pressure to push up bills by more than £100 because the wholesale price of gas rose by about 40%. The renewable energy element of a bill is less than £20, or less than 3%. We have to look at these issues in the round.
The most important message that I can give to my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset is that this is one proposal, which will come forward in a formal application next year. There will be significant opportunities to ensure that people’s views are heard. I am adamant as a Minister involved in the process that local engagement with the community will be an integral part of that process.
8.4 pm
4 July 2012 : Column 1039
Deferred Divisions
That the draft Police and Crime Commissioner Elections Order 2012, which was laid before this House on 15 May, be approved.
The House divided:
Ayes 304, Noes 209.
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Alexander, rh Danny
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cairns, Alun
Cameron, rh Mr David
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Gauke, Mr David
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Nick
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Howarth, Mr Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kennedy, rh Mr Charles
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Leigh, Mr Edward
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
McVey, Esther
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Osborne, rh Mr George
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, rh Mr James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reid, Mr Alan
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Mr Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
David, Wayne
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Dowd, Jim
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Hermon, Lady
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hunt, Tristram
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCann, Mr Michael
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McGovern, Alison
McGovern, Jim
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Reeves, Rachel
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Sarwar, Anas
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Simpson, David
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Question accordingly agreed to.
4 July 2012 : Column 1040
4 July 2012 : Column 1041
4 July 2012 : Column 1042
That the draft Education (Amendment of the Curriculum Requirements for Fourth Key Stage) (England) Order 2012, which was laid before this House on 11 June, be approved.
The House divided:
Ayes 317, Noes 199.
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Alexander, rh Danny
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, Paul
Burt, Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cairns, Alun
Cameron, rh Mr David
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crabb, Stephen
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mr Edward
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Nick
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hermon, Lady
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hoey, Kate
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Howarth, Mr Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huhne, rh Chris
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kennedy, rh Mr Charles
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Leigh, Mr Edward
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McCrea, Dr William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
McVey, Esther
Mensch, Louise
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Osborne, rh Mr George
Ottaway, Richard
Paice, rh Mr James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reid, Mr Alan
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shannon, Jim
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Mr Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wilson, Sammy
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Bell, Sir Stuart
Benn, rh Hilary
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creagh, Mary
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
David, Wayne
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Dowd, Jim
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Heyes, David
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hunt, Tristram
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCann, Mr Michael
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McGovern, Alison
McGovern, Jim
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Michael, rh Alun
Miliband, rh David
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Reeves, Rachel
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Sarwar, Anas
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Question accordingly agreed to.
4 July 2012 : Column 1043
4 July 2012 : Column 1044
4 July 2012 : Column 1045
4 July 2012 : Column 1046