House of Commons Hansard Debates for 25 Apr 2013 (pt 0002)

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1030

On JSA, I repeat that I do not accept any assurances from the Minister. None of the assurances that we have heard about the activities of the DWP to protect people—particularly regarding the sanctions and targets that the DWP and jobcentre officials are forced to make—have held water and are not worth the Hansard record they are written on. We will monitor the activities of the DWP in this matter to see whether the Minister’s assurances stand up.

Finally, there is a lesson for the Government in these debates, and it is this: neither this House nor the other place will tolerate again proposals in which people are asked to sell, effectively, their basic human rights. I give this assurance on behalf of, I am sure, all Opposition Members, that if there are any further such proposals, we will resist them tooth and nail because they undermine a basic principle of human rights development in this country. We feel as strongly as others will feel as the Government seek to roll this out.

Michael Fallon: With the leave of the House, let me reply to some of the points that have been made. First, there was a suggestion that the measure is not supported. It has been supported, repeatedly, by this House, and the Opposition’s attempt to derail it yesterday in the other place was defeated by a majority of 107, including by Liberal Democrats and Cross-Bench peers. We are now in a position where both Houses of Parliament support the clause and the principles behind it.

Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): Will the Minister give way?

Michael Fallon: No.

The shadow Business Secretary, the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) is quite wrong to say that we moved only very late in the day to consider the position of jobseekers allowance claimants. That issue was raised in this place and in Committee, where I gave assurances in response to questions and concerns from my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Andrew Stunell) in December. This is not something new; we have done everything we can throughout the passage of the Bill to ensure that the status is entirely voluntary. Members in both Houses were fully entitled to raise these concerns, and were right to do so. We have responded to them.

Secondly, we have introduced legal advice. Independent legal advice is not available at the moment for those considering other forms of employment status. A person is not offered independent legal advice if they are asked to make a judgment between being a worker and being an employee. I remind the House that the status of being a worker gives someone fewer rights than the status of being an employee-shareholder. People are not given independent legal advice on that, but we have introduced it in this respect because it is a new form of employment status and we want people to be absolutely sure of the risks and rewards involved.

Thirdly, the hon. Member for Streatham said that my noble Friend Viscount Younger had somehow suggested that it would be impossible to value shares. What he actually said, at column 1444, House of Lords Hansard, was that the valuation of private company shares was not particularly easy, but that it was done the whole time by expert advisers in various circumstances who have to make a valuation. That is quite standard procedure.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1031

Ian Murray: Will the Minister give way?

Michael Fallon: No.

The hon. Member for Streatham suggested that the tax provisions would be open to some kind of abuse. If he looks at the Finance Bill, which clearly he has not, he will see that schedule 22 includes provisions, which we published in draft, that deal specifically with the possibility of abuse of those tax provisions. I remind him that the Finance Bill is an annual event. Where abuses occur at any point under the law, we have the ability to improve our defences against them.

It is wrong of the Opposition to be completely negative about this proposal. It is wrong indeed to focus on just one aspect. We are talking about a package of employment rights, a package of mandatory shares and a package of tax incentives. It is the interaction of all three aspects that we think will motivate staff and better involve them in the future prospects of the company.

Ian Murray rose—

Hon. Members: Give way.

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I cannot hear the Minister speak. If he does not wish to give way, that is his choice, but I must be able to hear what he has to say.

John McDonnell: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Would it not be right to get it on the record that it is etiquette for one Front Bencher to give way to another Front Bencher in a debate of this sort?

Mr Deputy Speaker: It might be normal practice to give way, but it is still the Minister’s choice whether he wishes to or not. Obviously on this occasion he does not wish to give way.

Michael Fallon: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am trying to wind up this debate in a few minutes. The House will recall that I have given way repeatedly in debates on this matter.

Nobody has claimed that this Bill on its own or any individual measure in it will by itself trigger the growth that our economy needs, but in this Bill six different Departments have come together with a package of measures that will speed up the planning process, make it easier for families who want to adjust their housing, speed up the roll-out of broadband, increase investment in our gas and electricity networks and, finally and importantly, provide a new form of shareholder-employee status for those companies that wish to bind their employees more closely into the success of their performance.

Question put,

The House divided:

Ayes 222, Noes 161.

Division No. 226]

[

11.47 am

AYES

Adams, Nigel

Afriyie, Adam

Aldous, Peter

Amess, Mr David

Andrew, Stuart

Arbuthnot, rh Mr James

Bacon, Mr Richard

Baker, Norman

Baker, Steve

Baldry, Sir Tony

Baldwin, Harriett

Barclay, Stephen

Baron, Mr John

Barwell, Gavin

Beith, rh Sir Alan

Bellingham, Mr Henry

Berry, Jake

Bingham, Andrew

Blackwood, Nicola

Boles, Nick

Bone, Mr Peter

Bradley, Karen

Brady, Mr Graham

Brake, rh Tom

Bray, Angie

Brazier, Mr Julian

Bridgen, Andrew

Brine, Steve

Brokenshire, James

Brooke, Annette

Bruce, Fiona

Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm

Buckland, Mr Robert

Burley, Mr Aidan

Burns, Conor

Burns, rh Mr Simon

Burstow, rh Paul

Burt, Lorely

Byles, Dan

Cairns, Alun

Carmichael, Neil

Carswell, Mr Douglas

Cash, Mr William

Chishti, Rehman

Clark, rh Greg

Coffey, Dr Thérèse

Collins, Damian

Crouch, Tracey

Davies, Glyn

de Bois, Nick

Dinenage, Caroline

Djanogly, Mr Jonathan

Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen

Drax, Richard

Duddridge, James

Ellis, Michael

Ellison, Jane

Elphicke, Charlie

Eustice, George

Evans, Graham

Evennett, Mr David

Fallon, rh Michael

Fox, rh Dr Liam

Freeman, George

Fuller, Richard

Garnier, Sir Edward

Gauke, Mr David

Gibb, Mr Nick

Glen, John

Goldsmith, Zac

Goodwill, Mr Robert

Grant, Mrs Helen

Green, rh Damian

Grieve, rh Mr Dominic

Griffiths, Andrew

Gummer, Ben

Gyimah, Mr Sam

Halfon, Robert

Hammond, rh Mr Philip

Hammond, Stephen

Hancock, Matthew

Hands, Greg

Harrington, Richard

Harris, Rebecca

Hart, Simon

Harvey, Sir Nick

Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan

Hayes, rh Mr John

Heald, Oliver

Heath, Mr David

Hemming, John

Henderson, Gordon

Herbert, rh Nick

Hinds, Damian

Hoban, Mr Mark

Hollingbery, George

Hollobone, Mr Philip

Hopkins, Kris

Howarth, Sir Gerald

Howell, John

Hughes, rh Simon

Huppert, Dr Julian

Hurd, Mr Nick

Jackson, Mr Stewart

James, Margot

Javid, Sajid

Johnson, Gareth

Jones, Andrew

Jones, Mr Marcus

Kirby, Simon

Knight, rh Mr Greg

Kwarteng, Kwasi

Laing, Mrs Eleanor

Lansley, rh Mr Andrew

Latham, Pauline

Lee, Jessica

Lee, Dr Phillip

Leech, Mr John

Lefroy, Jeremy

Leslie, Charlotte

Lewis, Brandon

Lidington, rh Mr David

Lloyd, Stephen

Lord, Jonathan

Luff, Peter

Maude, rh Mr Francis

Maynard, Paul

McCartney, Karl

McIntosh, Miss Anne

Menzies, Mark

Metcalfe, Stephen

Miller, rh Maria

Mills, Nigel

Milton, Anne

Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew

Mordaunt, Penny

Morgan, Nicky

Morris, Anne Marie

Morris, James

Mosley, Stephen

Mowat, David

Munt, Tessa

Murray, Sheryll

Nokes, Caroline

Norman, Jesse

Nuttall, Mr David

O'Brien, Mr Stephen

Offord, Dr Matthew

Ollerenshaw, Eric

Ottaway, Richard

Paice, rh Sir James

Parish, Neil

Patel, Priti

Penning, Mike

Penrose, John

Percy, Andrew

Perry, Claire

Pincher, Christopher

Pugh, John

Raab, Mr Dominic

Randall, rh Mr John

Reckless, Mark

Redwood, rh Mr John

Rees-Mogg, Jacob

Reevell, Simon

Reid, Mr Alan

Robertson, rh Hugh

Rogerson, Dan

Rosindell, Andrew

Rudd, Amber

Ruffley, Mr David

Sandys, Laura

Scott, Mr Lee

Selous, Andrew

Shelbrooke, Alec

Shepherd, Sir Richard

Skidmore, Chris

Smith, Miss Chloe

Smith, Henry

Soames, rh Nicholas

Soubry, Anna

Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline

Spencer, Mr Mark

Stanley, rh Sir John

Stewart, Bob

Stewart, Iain

Stewart, Rory

Stride, Mel

Stunell, rh Andrew

Sturdy, Julian

Swales, Ian

Swayne, rh Mr Desmond

Swinson, Jo

Syms, Mr Robert

Teather, Sarah

Thornton, Mike

Thurso, John

Timpson, Mr Edward

Tomlinson, Justin

Tredinnick, David

Turner, Mr Andrew

Tyrie, Mr Andrew

Uppal, Paul

Vaizey, Mr Edward

Vara, Mr Shailesh

Vickers, Martin

Walker, Mr Charles

Walker, Mr Robin

Wallace, Mr Ben

Weatherley, Mike

Webb, Steve

Wharton, James

Whittingdale, Mr John

Wiggin, Bill

Williams, Mr Mark

Williams, Stephen

Williamson, Gavin

Wright, Jeremy

Wright, Simon

Yeo, Mr Tim

Young, rh Sir George

Zahawi, Nadhim

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mark Hunter

and

Mark Lancaster

NOES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob

Alexander, rh Mr Douglas

Alexander, Heidi

Ali, Rushanara

Allen, Mr Graham

Anderson, Mr David

Ashworth, Jonathan

Austin, Ian

Bain, Mr William

Barron, rh Mr Kevin

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, rh Margaret

Begg, Dame Anne

Benn, rh Hilary

Berger, Luciana

Blackman-Woods, Roberta

Blomfield, Paul

Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben

Brown, Lyn

Brown, rh Mr Nicholas

Brown, Mr Russell

Buck, Ms Karen

Burden, Richard

Campbell, Mr Alan

Caton, Martin

Champion, Sarah

Clark, Katy

Clwyd, rh Ann

Coffey, Ann

Corbyn, Jeremy

Crausby, Mr David

Cruddas, Jon

Cryer, John

Cunningham, Mr Jim

Cunningham, Sir Tony

Danczuk, Simon

Darling, rh Mr Alistair

David, Wayne

Davidson, Mr Ian

De Piero, Gloria

Denham, rh Mr John

Dobson, rh Frank

Docherty, Thomas

Donohoe, Mr Brian H.

Doughty, Stephen

Dowd, Jim

Doyle, Gemma

Eagle, Ms Angela

Edwards, Jonathan

Ellman, Mrs Louise

Evans, Chris

Farrelly, Paul

Fitzpatrick, Jim

Flello, Robert

Flynn, Paul

Fovargue, Yvonne

Gapes, Mike

Gilmore, Sheila

Greatrex, Tom

Green, Kate

Greenwood, Lilian

Griffith, Nia

Gwynne, Andrew

Hain, rh Mr Peter

Hamilton, Mr David

Hamilton, Fabian

Harman, rh Ms Harriet

Harris, Mr Tom

Havard, Mr Dai

Hendrick, Mark

Hillier, Meg

Hodgson, Mrs Sharon

Hoey, Kate

Hopkins, Kelvin

Hosie, Stewart

Hunt, Tristram

Irranca-Davies, Huw

Jackson, Glenda

Jamieson, Cathy

Jarvis, Dan

Johnson, Diana

Jones, Graham

Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald

Keeley, Barbara

Lammy, rh Mr David

Lavery, Ian

Leslie, Chris

Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn

Love, Mr Andrew

Mactaggart, Fiona

Malhotra, Seema

Mann, John

Marsden, Mr Gordon

McCann, Mr Michael

McCarthy, Kerry

McClymont, Gregg

McDonald, Andy

McDonnell, Dr Alasdair

McDonnell, John

McFadden, rh Mr Pat

McGovern, Alison

McGuire, rh Mrs Anne

McKechin, Ann

McKenzie, Mr Iain

McKinnell, Catherine

Mearns, Ian

Miller, Andrew

Moon, Mrs Madeleine

Morden, Jessica

Morrice, Graeme

(Livingston)

Morris, Grahame M.

(Easington)

Murphy, rh Paul

Murray, Ian

Nandy, Lisa

Nash, Pamela

O'Donnell, Fiona

Onwurah, Chi

Osborne, Sandra

Pearce, Teresa

Perkins, Toby

Powell, Lucy

Qureshi, Yasmin

Raynsford, rh Mr Nick

Reed, Mr Jamie

Reed, Mr Steve

Robertson, Angus

Robertson, John

Robinson, Mr Geoffrey

Rotheram, Steve

Roy, Lindsay

Sawford, Andy

Seabeck, Alison

Sharma, Mr Virendra

Sheerman, Mr Barry

Sheridan, Jim

Shuker, Gavin

Skinner, Mr Dennis

Slaughter, Mr Andy

Smith, rh Mr Andrew

Spellar, rh Mr John

Stuart, Ms Gisela

Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry

Tami, Mark

Thomas, Mr Gareth

Thornberry, Emily

Timms, rh Stephen

Turner, Karl

Twigg, Derek

Umunna, Mr Chuka

Vaz, Valerie

Walley, Joan

Watts, Mr Dave

Williams, Hywel

Williamson, Chris

Wilson, Phil

Winnick, Mr David

Winterton, rh Ms Rosie

Woodcock, John

Woodward, rh Mr Shaun

Wright, Mr Iain

Tellers for the Noes:

Julie Hilling

and

Susan Elan Jones

Question accordingly agreed to.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1032

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1033

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1034

Resolved,

That this House does not insist on its amendment 25E, to which the Lords have disagreed, and agrees with the Lords in their amendments 25H rev and 25J in lieu.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1035

Railways

[Relevant documents: Thirty-third Report from the European Scrutiny Committee, HC-xxxiii; Twelfth Report from the Transport Committee, on The European Commission’s 4th Railway Package, HC 1001.]

12.1 pm

The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr Simon Burns): I beg to move,

That this House takes note of European Union Documents No. 5855/13, a Commission Communication: The Fourth Railway Package-completing the single European railway area to foster European competitiveness and growth, No. 6012/13 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Draft Regulation on the European Union Agency for Railways and repealing Regulation (EC) No. 881/2004, No. 6013/13 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Draft Directive on the interoperability of the rail system within the European Union (Recast), No. 6014/13 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Draft Directive on railway safety (Recast), No. 6017/13, a Commission Report on the progress made towards achieving interoperability of the rail system, No 6019/13, a Commission Report on the profile and tasks of other train crew members, No. 5960/13 and Addenda 1 to 5, a Draft Regulation amending Regulation (EC) No. 1370/2007 concerning the opening of the market for domestic passenger transport services by rail, No. 5985/13 and Addenda 1 to 7, a Draft Directive amending Directive 2012/34/EU establishing a single European railway area, as regards the opening of the market for domestic passenger transport services by rail and the governance of the railway infrastructure, and No. 6020/13, a Commission report on the implementation of the provisions of Directive 2007/58/EC on the opening of the market of international rail passenger transport accompanying the Communication on the fourth railway package; supports the Government’s aim of ensuring any resulting measures are appropriate, encourage competition and help to deliver a level playing field across the EU; and further supports the Government’s view that any such measures should be evidence-based, proportionate and reduce or at least minimise the regulatory, administrative and cost burden for industry.

I welcome the fact that the European Scrutiny Committee has referred this subject to the House for debate. I also thank and pay tribute to the Transport Committee for its report on the fourth railway package, a number of whose conclusions and recommendations the Government support.

The fourth railway package is a major European Union legislative proposal involving three directives and three regulations. As Members will appreciate, we are still considering the implications of the proposals in consultation with other Departments, so all I can give the House this afternoon is our initial position.

The United Kingdom has one of the most liberalised rail networks in the EU, which is why the Government support further opening of the domestic EU public passenger transport markets. However, we want to ensure that the proposals that are implemented as part of the package are flexible enough to work within the UK’s public passenger transport structure, and are compatible with our plans for rail reform. The Transport Committee made that point in its report.

Evidence garnered by the European Commission indicates that about 40% of passenger routes in the EU are accessible to new operators. That implies that significant market opportunities could arise both for UK rail firms and for those in the rest of the EU if the proposals pass into European law. There would also be potential for expansion of the rolling stock leasing sector. The new infrastructure manager separation provisions could give freight operators benefits as well if they further open up

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1036

access in practice, reducing the chances of discriminatory behaviour in some member states. In any event, I can assure the House that the proposals will be the subject of consultation with stakeholders and considerable negotiation within the European Union. We will continue to engage with the Commission, the European Parliament and other member states to ensure that any concerns are addressed in the final texts.

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I am listening to the Minister’s comments with interest. Would these proposals force the publicly owned railway systems that exist in some parts of Europe to be handed over to the private sector, or would they allow the public sector to participate on a level playing field?

Mr Burns: I hope I can give the hon. Gentleman reassurance on that, if that is what he is seeking. It is not a question of forcing any railways in any country in the EU to move from one position to another, although the main thrust of the package is to create a greater liberalisation of the market for the benefit of both taxpayers in the EU and passengers.

Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): Does the Minister agree that any operator, whether private or public, that returns £640 million to the taxpayers of any country is a good operation to have?

Mr Burns: I think the hon. Gentleman is trying to take us back to the House’s earlier Transport questions, as he is trying to highlight the east coast main line case. I am more than happy to take as long it takes to explain why it is the right thing to return the east coast main line to a franchise situation, as the last Labour Government wanted to do, but if I were to do so, I think, Mr Deputy Speaker, that you would step in quickly to tell me that that is beyond the scope of this debate.

Several hon. Members rose—

Mr Burns: I am spoiled for choice, so I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East.

Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): The important issue of whether ownership should be private or public has been raised, and I hope my right hon. Friend will assure me that he agrees that railways in private ownership are better run than those in public ownership. Certain countries in Europe, however, still have a tight grasp of public ownership of their railways, and I therefore hope he will encourage liberalisation of the market so that private companies can invest into markets throughout Europe.

Mr Burns: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and he can certainly have that assurance. We lead the way in Europe on liberalisation of the rail market, followed closely by the Dutch, the Swedish and the Germans, seeking to—

Ian Murray rose—

Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab) rose—

Mr Burns: I am trying to answer my hon. Friend’s question. His second point is also absolutely right. As he knows—and as Labour desperately tries to forget—since privatisation the number of passengers using our rail network has doubled, the number of journeys on our

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1037

rail network has doubled, the standards have improved noticeably—but there is still some way to go to get even better quality and standards for passengers—and the investment in the infrastructure to improve the quality of the journeys has increased. It is incredible that, although the Labour party pays lip service to a good, efficient rail system, in 13 years of the last Labour Government there were just 10 extra miles of electrification on the network, yet in the first three years of this coalition Government there have been 850 extra miles of electrification.

Sheila Gilmore rose—

Ian Murray rose—

Mr Burns: The hon. Gentleman has had his turn, so I suggest he sits down. I will now give way to the hon. Lady, and then I will make progress.

Sheila Gilmore: If our system is so much better than the European systems that have more state control, why is it that Members, including on the Government Benches, have been saying that the costs here are too great? Is there, perhaps, some relationship between the costs under a privatised system as opposed to the costs under a state-run system?

Mr Burns: I think I am in a better position than the hon. Lady to know what my hon. Friends say, as I probably mix with them more frequently than she does. They are impressed that since privatisation the number of passengers using the rail network has doubled, the number of rail journeys has doubled and the amount of freight on rail, and off our congested roads, has increased by 60%. They want continued investment in infrastructure to improve the quality of journeys and to improve rolling stock and track electrification so that people can travel around this country by rail far better than under British Rail. As someone who, sadly, is old enough to remember British Rail, I find it incredible that so many—almost dinosaurs—on the Opposition Benches seem to have a rose-tinted view of how fabulous it was. It was not.

I turn to the safety aspects of the package, which are important and are of major interest to the various sectors in the UK rail transport chain. In consultation with stakeholders, we are giving full consideration to their implications. The proposal to move from a two-part safety certificate to a single-part certificate is welcome as a simplification of the existing process. We expect it to lead to a significant reduction in the costs and regulatory burdens for railway undertakings. It will especially benefit those who operate cross-border services.

However, we need to look carefully at the justification for the extension of powers for the European rail agency to issue the single safety certificate, and we need to understand how it supports market opening objectives. Enhancement of the agency’s powers for audit and inspection of national safety authorities will change its current role. It is a fundamental shift away from a partnership role to a policing function. We are not convinced that those powers are necessary given the high level of co-operation already achieved between the majority of national safety authorities. We will ask the European Commission for further clarity about how any issues exposed will be resolved.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1038

The communication includes proposals for a recast of the interoperability directive for railways. The Commission believes that there are problems with the authorisation process for rail vehicles, especially when the vehicle is intended for use in more than one member state. It refers to delays and costs reported by operators to the Commission owing to vehicles sitting idle in sidings awaiting authorisation from national safety authorities. To solve the problem, the Commission proposes a recast of the directive and changes to the authorisation process. A key change would be that the applicant applied to the European rail agency instead of the national safety authorities for authorisation of their vehicle.

Removal of powers from national safety authorities to the agency will change their role. The three safety authorities in the UK—the Office of Rail Regulation, the Channel Tunnel Intergovernmental Commission and the Department for Regional Development in Northern Ireland—will no longer be able to issue those authorisations.

Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): Does that not indicate the heart of the problem? The European Union is once again seeking to extend its powers in an area where it already has competence. In the review of competences, will my right hon. Friend consider returning the whole area to the authority of the United Kingdom and our democratic control, as we are an island and our connection with the continent by rail is limited to the channel tunnel?

Mr Burns: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, to which I will respond in two parts. His second point is, I am afraid, above my pay grade. I hear what he says, and I understand what he is getting at, but I cannot give him an assurance. The transport field is a bit more complicated because so much is done on a Europe-wide basis, but I can give him the somewhat glib assurance that no doubt his concerns and his point will be heard and considered in other places. On the narrower issue, I beg his patience because he may be more reassured when I reach our proposals.

Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): I endorse the views expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg). When my right hon. Friend reaches that narrower issue, will he make clear whether High Speed 2 is directly connected? It is being put around by the UK Independence party, and others in the county council elections, that HS2 is directly related to the issue.

Mr Burns: I will deal with it now. HS2 is not directly related. It is a project drawn up by the coalition Government—to be fair, building on the work of Lord Adonis when Labour was in power. We support the project because we believe it is in the national interest, which is why it is going ahead. UKIP has sought to muddy the water on a number of issues with regard to HS2 and the European Union. As I was saying at Transport questions, before I was politely interrupted, that is fascinating, because if one were to travel around Buckinghamshire, and possibly Warwickshire, Staffordshire and a few other points north, one would see opposition to that magnificent project from the party my hon. Friend mentioned. He might then be confused if he

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read UKIP’s 2010 general election manifesto, which calls for three—not one, but three—high-speed railway systems in this country. But I now return—

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. May I help the Minister a little more? He is right to suggest to the Chair that he does not want a rerun of Transport questions. I totally agree and we are not going to do that, are we?

Mr Burns: Of course not, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): The Minister wants to rerun the answers.

Mr Burns: Cruel.

Before I was so cruelly interrupted by the hon. Gentleman, I was talking about the important issue of safety.

Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend give way?

Mr Burns: If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I want to make some progress.

The Commission’s explanation is that removing authorisation powers to the agency will help to address the delays that some operators have reported when seeking authorisations from national safety authorities. That is especially the case for cross-border operations where a train may run through more than one member state. We are not currently aware of significant costs or delays for railway undertakings in obtaining those authorisations in the UK, so we are not convinced that there is a problem in the UK. That is why we need to safeguard practices that already work here.

Overall, the Commission needs to be clearer about how the changes to the directive will contribute to market opening. Another Commission proposal is to change the authorisation process for trackside signalling, which would have a significant impact in the UK. There is not yet much experience in the UK of the authorisation of trackside signalling by the national safety authorities. However, UK projects are more likely to prefer to seek authorisation from the national safety authority rather than the agency, because they have not encountered difficulties so far.

The Commission has explained that to deal effectively with authorisation delays and cross-border problems it requires action at the EU level. It argues that individual member states acting independently cannot address such problems. However, at the Transport Council on 11 March, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State proposed that there might be an alternative to moving powers away from national safety authorities to the agency. We have suggested giving the market a choice about where the authorisation is obtained from, so we propose exploring with member states and the Commission an approach that would enable rail undertakings to choose whether to obtain an authorisation from the relevant national safety authority or the agency. The same principle could be extended to give the industry a choice about where it needs to apply for trackside signalling authorisations. The UK is continuing to push

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1040

for our choice of approach so that the national safety authorities and the agency could have the power to authorise vehicles.

The details of the recast of the interoperability directive are being negotiated in Council working groups. However, there are indications that our views about choice are being listened to and that other member states support our idea, which gives us grounds for encouragement. We will keep a close eye on how the proposals develop to try to ensure that we get the best outcome for Britain and the rail system in Europe. We will try to preserve as much flexibility as possible for member states to determine what work needs to be authorised and the applicable standards.

Let me turn to the impact of the proposals to require a railway infrastructure manager to be separate from a railway undertaking. The Government will need to understand the possible effects on several areas, including alliances between Network Rail and railway undertakings, and joint working arrangements. Within the package are requirements to ensure the effective independence of the infrastructure manager within a vertically integrated undertaking. The Government are looking further at how they will influence the holding company model, as used by Eurotunnel in respect of the channel tunnel and the cross-border rail services that run through it. There will also be points to consider for the railway structure in Northern Ireland, which remains vertically integrated.

Sir Roy McNulty concluded in his report—we accept this—that the key to delivering long-term efficiencies in the rail industry is the alignment of incentives between track and train. Alliances or partnerships between Network Rail and the passenger train operators are central to our approach. Alliances are expected to maximise efficiencies and to ensure that minority freight and open-access operators are protected, not discriminated against. They do so by ensuring that capacity allocation and charging decisions are undertaken outside the alliance to avoid discrimination against smaller train operators, including freight operators. Safety is protected by ensuring that ultimate accountability rests with the statutory duty holder. We believe that that is compatible with the open competition in rail markets that the Commission wants, but we are worried that the way in which the Commission’s proposals are formulated might prohibit certain types of alliances, such as between Network Rail and rail undertakings, and joint working arrangements, such as integrated control centres and performance improvement projects. The proposals therefore might prevent us from achieving the benefits that we anticipate. I know that the Transport Committee’s report stated that joint working between Network Rail and train operators should not be prohibited or unduly restricted. We will continue to engage closely with the European Commission and Parliament, and other member states, to ensure that our concerns are addressed in the final proposals.

On the impact of the proposals on franchising, we welcome the commitment to market opening.

Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): Will the Minister give way on that point?

Mr Burns: I actually have not said anything yet, so I am not quite sure what the hon. Gentleman is going to ask. Perhaps he will allow me to say a little more.

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We believe that the liberalised domestic market has delivered significant benefits for passengers. We have shown our commitment to franchising through the recent announcement to restart the franchising programme and return the east coast main line to the private sector.

Gavin Shuker: I am extremely grateful to the Minister for giving way on that point. Will he confirm that it would not be possible for him to continue to operate the east coast line through Directly Operated Railways if this package of measures goes through? I understand his commitment to returning the line to the private sector, but given that it is thriving in the public sector, why does he want to go along with these proposals?

Mr Burns: I am not sure what it is about the hon. Gentleman that he cannot comprehend the position, but I suspect that he just has not read the facts. Lord Adonis and the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan), when he was in my post, also believed that it was best to operate trains through franchises in the private sector. Even when Lord Adonis had to introduce the emergency measure of taking the east coast main line into public ownership, as a result of the problems that blew up at that time, he was clear that that would be a short-term measure and that the service would be returned to a franchise when it was possible to do so.

Gavin Shuker indicated dissent.

Mr Burns: The hon. Gentleman is displaying a degree of incredulity and suggesting that that was not the case. I know that he was not a Member at that time, but if goes to the Library to find the relevant copies of Hansard, he will read that Lord Adonis and the right hon. Member for Tooting were emphatic in their announcements to Parliament that the decision on the east coast main line was a short-term measure. I am rather grateful that Lord Adonis went a step further by saying that it was better for the railways to be run by franchises in the private sector.

Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): But he’s a Tory.

Mr Burns: It is fascinating to hear that from one of Lord Adonis’s colleagues. I suspect that the hon. Gentleman—there seems to be a problem with Luton today—meant that in a derogatory way, but I thought that Lord Adonis was not a Tory, but the last Labour Secretary of State for Transport. I also thought that he was working with the present leader of the Labour party on formulating Labour’s policies.

Mr Anderson: Will the Minister give way?

Mr Burns: No, I am going to make progress—[Interruption.] I do not want to be disrespectful to the hon. Gentleman, but I have listened to many of his interventions and it is not often that they can be put in the category of making progress—they usually hark back to an era that most of us do not remember.

Mr Anderson rose—

Mr Burns: I will make progress in my way, not the hon. Gentleman’s.

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The subject of franchising has aroused considerable interest among Labour Members, so let me briefly set out something that I have said before. Since privatisation, rail numbers have doubled and passenger satisfaction is at an all-time high. Recent European research has shown that the countries with the greatest growth in rail travel are those with the most liberalised markets.

As with the proposals I have already discussed, we will need to ensure that we continue to engage on the detail, including by ensuring that any changes to public passenger transport services regulation are compatible with the specific needs of our network and give us the flexibility to deliver a sustainable franchise programme. I know that the Transport Committee’s report is concerned that our arrangements for letting train franchises should not be challenged, and I assure hon. Members that the Government share that view and are looking closely at the issue.

On transport plans, we are concerned that the requirements are over-prescriptive and will therefore impose a significant regulatory burden.

In relation to the channel tunnel, the focus of the Commission’s proposal is on achieving effective competition and further market opening for domestic passenger services, thereby increasing the quantity and improving the quality of passenger services. It is still too early to assess whether this will lead to more cross-border rail services through the channel tunnel.

I will summarise our initial findings on the impacts of the package on the UK. The package may present significant market opportunities for UK firms wishing to expand their operations into the EU. However, the benefits for domestic rail transport are less obvious. We cannot see how a substantial proportion of the additional demand and cost savings identified by the European Commission in its impact assessment will translate to the domestic rail sector in the UK. This is because significant parts of the Commission proposal, including the competitive tendering aspects of the package, are already in place, and because in the UK we already have the benefits of vertical separation which avoids discrimination.

I remain concerned about the Commission moving powers from national safety authorities to the European Railway Agency. The Government will need to be convinced that these powers are necessary, given the high level of co-operation already achieved between national safety authorities. We also do not want anything that interferes with the current UK rail structure or adds bureaucracy and costs, or any proposals that are not compatible with our plans for rail reform.

Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con) rose—

Mr Burns: I give way for the last time, before I allow other hon. Members to contribute.

Andrew Percy: I am pleased the Minister is talking about UK passengers. My constituents would be happy just to be able to get on the train to Doncaster. They are not necessarily bothered about being able to get a train to Berlin, so I am reassured by what he is saying. However, having listened to the debate, my knee has started to jerk a little. We seem to be hearing the usual European argument about how all this will be in the interests of the passenger, but is not the risk that this is

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just another area that we will cede to the European Union? We will be told that it is all about improvements for domestic passengers, and down the line we will find out in short time that we have given away yet another power over another area of domestic policy, which will not be in the interests of passengers.

Mr Burns: I think I can give some reassurance to my hon. Friend. As he will know, because he has been listening avidly to my remarks, I have identified a number of areas where we are concerned or where we are seeking to forge a partnership with other members of the European Union to make changes for the better. But the assurance is that we are so far ahead of most of the European Union with our liberalised market that we are seeking to bring others up to our standards and offer the same opportunities as we have of a more liberalised rail service in other EU countries. I do not think it is a case of our being dragged to do something that we do not want to do, because in many areas we are already doing it. We want other people to follow our good example and get the benefit that we have had from a liberalised market with a good franchising process, where more people are using our railways, standards are improving and we are investing in enhancing it.

On that happy note, I conclude by saying that I warmly welcome the opportunity that we have today to debate the document. I will listen with great care to the comments from the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman, and I will be fascinated to see whether she and her hon. Friends will join me in the Lobby to take note of this important document.

12.34 pm

Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): This is an important package of proposals and we must consider their consequences carefully. As the Minister acknowledged when he appeared before the Transport Committee and today, the Government are still considering their position on several matters of detail.

A number of issues need to be looked at in the context of the UK rail industry. Given the recent success of the east coast main line and the collapse of the franchising system, we do not believe that it is necessary to move towards compulsory tendering of all passenger contracts. Within the wider package there are several proposals that we can support in principle, but reassurances are needed on a number of points.

We broadly welcome moves towards standardisation which have the potential to deliver savings to UK companies. Part of that process is the move towards uniform European safety standards, and we need to look closely at how those changes would impact on the UK. We need to look at how the proposals would affect our cross-border links with France. The channel tunnel has not yet fulfilled its potential in either passenger or freight traffic, and the proposals in the package for greater co-operation between infrastructure managers, combined with a single certification authority, may improve services between Britain and the continent. It is therefore right to pursue standardisation which could reduce costs, and it is also important that where countries

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have chosen to put contracts out to tender, British companies should be able to compete on a level playing field.

Previous packages have done much to remove the cross-border restrictions which hold rail back compared with other modes of transport, although as the Select Committee noted this week, some outstanding issues remain. There is still much to be done and the possibility of single certificates across the EU will be a boon to purchasers and manufacturers, who currently have to obtain approval from individual national regulators. However, there are also concerns, and we must make sure that any final agreement is in the national as well as the European interest.

Crucially, the UK’s recent exemplary safety record must not be put at risk in a rush to achieve uniformity. Since Labour ended the failed Railtrack experiment and tackled the decades of under-investment in our infrastructure, the UK has established one of the best safety records in Europe. Much of the credit must go to the work of the Office of Rail Regulation, which since 2004 has helped to deliver a significant improvement in safety standards. Fatalities on the railways are now at an historic low, but under the fourth railway package the ORR’s safety and certification responsibilities will be transferred to the European Railway Agency. Can the Minister give the House a categorical assurance that safety standards in the UK will not be weakened if the ORR’s responsibilities are transferred to the ERA? What discussions has he held with the Commission on this point? Will he give the House a full report on them today?

Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): Is it not fair to say that the British railways system is one of the safest in the world? We are on the right track with health and safety. If the package goes ahead, that could be in doubt.

Lilian Greenwood: My hon. Friend is exactly right. Since Network Rail took over, overseen by the Office of Rail Regulation, safety has improved enormously. That is precisely why I am asking the Government to give us the assurances that we seek.

As the Transport Committee noted, there is a

“lack of clarity about how they”—

the new standards—

“would work in practice.”

Will the Minister reassure the House that there will be a clear and simple division of responsibilities between the ORR and the ERA? What assessment has he made of whether there will have to be an increase in bureaucracy in order to enforce common standards across very different networks? The UK is currently leading Europe on safety, and our high standards must not be levelled down in order to reach a quick agreement.

There is also a difficult balance to strike on competition. Of course, where countries have decided to put routes out to tender, British companies should be able to bid without fear or favour, but the fourth railway package would force competitive tendering on all passenger services. This has already provoked opposition in Europe, and we believe that there are good reasons for opposing it in the UK too. If approved, it could deny the UK the right to maintain a public sector comparator or intervene in cases of market failure, as happened on the east

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coast. Since 2009, the award-winning not-for-dividend operator has returned £640 million to the taxpayer, so it is worrying to see the Commission base its proposals explicitly on the UK experience.

Ian Murray: My hon. Friend is making an exceptional case. The Minister talked about competition on the railways. Does my hon. Friend surmise that if a private operator returned £640 million to the Exchequer, the Minister would come to the Dispatch Box to say that it was an exemplary operator that should be encouraged?

Lilian Greenwood: My hon. Friend makes a telling point. The Government’s claims—

Mr Simon Burns: Will the hon. Lady give way?

Lilian Greenwood: I will respond to the previous intervention first.

The Government’s claims about the east coast main line’s performance have been blown out of the water by the Office of Rail Regulation’s recent financial report. East Coast has seen rising passenger satisfaction and been given a national award. It receives virtually no subsidy and makes the second highest contribution to the Treasury. The Government’s case for re-privatisation just does not stack up.

Mr Burns: The hon. Lady might want to reassure her hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) that the west coast main line has paid back even more money to the Treasury. In the light of what she has just said, perhaps she would like to explain her view of the comments of her right hon. and noble Friend Lord Adonis and her right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) on the east coast main line going back to franchising and out of public ownership.

Lilian Greenwood: The west coast main line, of course, enjoys the advantage of having had a major infrastructure and rolling stock upgrade, all funded by the taxpayer, and the east coast main line is due to have a large investment in infrastructure and rolling stock, also paid for by the taxpayer. Perhaps the Minister would like to reflect on the comments Lord Adonis made in last year’s “Rebuilding Rail” report. Some years after taking the east coast main line back into a not-for-dividend operator, he acknowledged that the current arrangements hold back our state operator.

Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab): Can my hon. Friend reassure the House that when the Government seek to put the east coast main line out for a new franchise, as they inevitably will, she will hold the Minister to account to ensure that whatever premium is paid by the new private operator will be at least the same as that which we are now receiving from the state-owned company, because anything less will surely be absolutely unacceptable to the taxpayer?

Lilian Greenwood: My hon. Friend makes an important point. Of course, it is not just about the premium payments. At the moment, because the east coast main line is run by a not-for-dividend operator, not only is it making the premium payments to the Treasury, but the £40 million surplus has not been shared with private

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shareholders; every single penny has been reinvested in improving services. I think that is what UK taxpayers and passengers want.

Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): Following what my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South (Mr Harris) has just said, will my hon. Friend hold the Minister to account so that the Government ensure not only that the franchise delivers more to the Treasury than the Directly Operated Railways are currently delivering, but that the franchise can afford to do so, because we remember the National Express fiasco?

Lilian Greenwood: My hon. Friend has said exactly what needs to be said on the matter.

The European Commission’s case for extending competition in that way can be found in a recently published non-paper, or document for discussion, on the UK railways. Actually, the term “non-paper” covers it rather well. It implies that privatisation was responsible for improving safety, but in fact the infrastructure sell-off had the opposite effect and subsequent investment in safety was taxpayer-funded. It also claims that privatisation itself was responsible for increasing passenger numbers, but other countries that did not fragment their systems also experienced comparable levels of passenger growth, as the Transport Committee acknowledged this week.

Most remarkably, the non-paper suggests that privatisation has reduced subsidy. At the time, we were promised a more efficient railway, but subsidy rocketed. As the Office of Rail Regulation’s financial report last week confirmed, in 2011-12 train operating companies received more public funding than they paid back. They were paid £51 million more than they gave back in premium payments, while the Government paid almost £4 billion towards the cost of infrastructure.

Mr Anderson: Does my hon. Friend agree that the figures show that the subsidy has gone up by 300% since privatisation and, on top of that, fares have gone up by 22% in real terms, so the public are paying for the costs of privatisation? The really perverse thing is that a lot of the subsidy from British taxpayers and fare payers is actually going to the German, Dutch and French national Governments, because they own more than half the railways in this country.

Lilian Greenwood: My hon. Friend is right. That is precisely why the Opposition have been prepared to look at reforming the railways.

In total, the train operating companies were left with £305 million before tax at a time when, as my hon. Friend has just said, some fares and season tickets have been allowed to rise by well above the rate of inflation. Those are the headline figures but, as the McNulty report, the Transport Committee and many others have pointed out, there is a basic lack of transparency in railway finances, as commercial confidentiality serves to obscure waste in the system.

The waste is huge. The McNulty report identified an efficiency gap of 40%, compared with the railways of four other European countries. The fragmentation of the industry has led to massive interface costs between Network Rail, the operating companies and the supply chain. Taxpayers and fare payers are supporting replica bureaucracies and unnecessary legal challenges. That

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money could be better invested in the industry. The great railway sell-off was a botched, rushed job. Labour took action to reverse some of the most damaging legacies of privatisation, including the disaster that was Railtrack, but the Railways Act 1993 was hurried through Parliament for political reasons, creating inefficiencies that are still with us today.

Mr Cash: With regard to the interesting dialogue between the question of Europeanisation, nationalisation and privatisation, does the hon. Lady agree that the consequences of adopting a positive policy towards the underlying desire to Europeanise the system of railways are alien to what I assume to be the interests of the trade unions, whether in this country or elsewhere, because Europeanisation and the bureaucracy she has just referred to will ensure that it is inefficient?

Lilian Greenwood: The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point, but my concern is to protect the interests of passengers and taxpayers. That prompts the reasons for our response to the Government’s proposals today.

Rather than reading the Commission’s non-paper, Members could watch the accompanying video—I wonder how much taxpayers’ money was spent producing it—which is very amusing. They could be forgiven for thinking that there is no real dispute at all, but buried in the impact assessment for compulsory tendering is the giveaway sentence:

“There is a certain degree of uncertainty in the assessment of impacts of some options, as evidence is sometimes fairly recent (e.g. competition in the market) or ambiguous (evidence provided only by specific stakeholders). The choice to move forward with the aforementioned combination remains thus a political choice.”

There we have it. The decision to impose one particular model on European states is a political choice, just as the Government’s decision to re-privatise the east coast main line was ideologically driven.

Jacob Rees-Mogg: Will the hon. Lady give way?

Lilian Greenwood: I will make a little progress.

Countries should be free to choose the models that best suit national and local needs. We had just such a need in 2009, after two franchisees walked away from the east coast main line. As a not-for-dividend operator, East Coast has gone from strength to strength. Overall passenger satisfaction has risen and the operator has won a national award for how it manages disruptions to services, with a 12% improvement in satisfaction ratings in the past year. It has provided a public sector comparator at a time when the Government’s franchising policy has collapsed, at a cost to the taxpayer of more than £55 million. By the end of this year, it will have returned £800 million to the taxpayer and invested profits in the service.

The not-for-dividend east coast main line is working, and with a five-year business plan in place the operator could deliver more, if it had the Government’s backing. However, by prioritising the privatisation of the east coast main line, the Government seem to be saying that the service works in practice, but not in theory. We need to proceed on the basis of the best evidence available and build on success stories such as the east coast main line, Merseyrail and London Overground.

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I am sure that the Minister will have listened closely to Transport for London’s concerns about the fourth railway package, particularly the definition of a competent authority. Interpreted literally, the definition of an authority that serves

“the transport needs of an urban agglomeration or a rural district”

could force TfL to divest itself of some services at a time when it is looking to take on additional responsibilities. Perhaps the Minister could offer reassurances on this issue, which may impact on other bodies, including the proposed rail in the north executive. The devolution agenda must not be put at risk by these proposals.

Jeremy Corbyn: My hon. Friend will be aware of the current consultation on changing the rail network in London by extending the London Overground network to take in some of the suburban services run by other agencies. I am unclear about the effect that this European proposal will have on that. London Overground, after all, is one of the most popular and successful rail networks in the country and its expansion would certainly be welcomed by many people in London.

Lilian Greenwood: I thank my hon. Friend, and that is the precise concern that I am raising on behalf of TfL. As he says, London Overground is a successful operation and we would not want to see this package stand in the way of TfL continuing to develop services for the benefit of passengers and taxpayers.

There are a number of concerns, therefore, about a number of points in the fourth railway package. We need to reach a deal that works for the British railway industry—a deal that removes the uncertainty over safety and devolution, while allowing us the option of replicating the success of the east coast main line, which should not be re-privatised, as the Government plan. The fourth railway package is not there yet, and that is why we cannot support this motion.

Several hon. Members rose—

Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. My word, there are more speakers than expected. I am going to have to introduce a limit of five minutes and it may even have to go down. The opening speech lasted 33 minutes, so that has affected the debate a little. I call Iain Stewart.

12.52 pm

Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this debate.

I will first pick up on the fascinating comments made by the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood). I wonder whether we are witnessing the embryonic development of a Labour policy of whole-scale renationalisation of train operators. I have only five minutes, so I cannot pursue that much further. I imagine that the proposal finds a lot of favour with the hon. Lady’s Back-Bench colleagues and, indeed, trade union sponsors, but that is a matter for another day.

Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government’s position is ideologically bizarre, in that they seem to oppose

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public ownership of the railways by British people or the British Government, but have no objection at all to public ownership of British railways by foreign Governments?

Iain Stewart: If the right hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will come on to some of the proposals in the EU package that I think will help British operators to expand into Europe, if they so wish.

I broadly welcome the package of measures. It takes Europe in a direction that we have already taken, so its broad thrust will not have a dramatic effect on rail operators in this country.

I want to pick up on a few specific concerns. There is an issue about how the rest of Europe will respond and I am concerned about how effective the European Union will be in implementing the package in other countries. The Transport Committee’s evidence sessions made it clear that it will be very difficult to apply the package to all EU member states, because of the different sizes and structures of their respective railway systems. Past experience shows that the proposals are so opaque in practice that national Governments can implement them as they wish so as to protect their own national operators. I asked Brian Simpson, the Labour MEP who chairs the European Parliament’s Transport and Tourism Committee, whether there was lobbying from France and Germany to protect their national interests. He replied: “You bet there was.” I am, therefore, concerned about how the proposals will be implemented in Europe.

The Committee has recommended—I think this would help—that the maximum limit for the bundling together of rail network services should be one fifth instead of one third. On the evolution of services in Germany, while urban and regional services are diversifying, allowing different operators to enter the market, the entire inter-city network, with only two exceptions, is operated by Deutsche Bahn. Therefore, a contract covering one third of the national network would allow Deutsche Bahn a near monopoly of the inter-city services, which goes against the principle of the directive. I hope that in his discussions with colleagues in Europe, the Minister will pursue an upper limit of one fifth of the market, rather than one third.

The Minister has already referred to one of my domestic concerns, namely that the package should not prohibit the alliance between Network Rail and some of the train operating companies, particularly South West Trains. I believe that that is an effective way forward for the railways and I hope that the Minister will be able to get some clarification on it and protection for those British interests.

I am also concerned about international services. For obvious reasons, the impact on British railways has not been significant thus far, but High Speed 2 and its connection to High Speed 1 and the tunnel will lead to many more international services from this country. I do not want our interests to be inhibited by problems relating to track access or safety, which is what happened when Eurostar tried to buy Siemens trains for the tunnel. The existing regulations are not as effective as they could be. I hope we can get much greater clarity and certainty on both those areas, in order to allow the development of effective cross-border services from this country. The Minister has said that he is looking at

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whether the issue can be dealt with through a European-wide arrangement or through greater collaboration between national agencies. I do not have a particular preference, but the overall objective should be to give operators greater certainty so that they can plan services.

I am running out of time, so I will conclude by saying that I broadly support the thrust of the package, but hope that the Government will be successful in getting the assurances and clarifications needed to protect our interests.

12.58 pm

Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): I begin by apologising that I will not be able to stay for the whole debate, because I have to lead a transport debate in Westminster Hall that starts at 1.30 pm. I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss some of the findings of the Transport Committee’s inquiry into the European fourth railway package.

The Commission justifies its proposals by talking about “stagnation or decline” in European railways. Of course, there is no such thing in this country. Our railways are enjoying an unprecedented period of growth. It is highly debatable whether that growth is due to privatisation or the growth in our GDP over the same period. It is worth recognising that there has also been major expansion in Germany and France, where major national rail operators run the rail services. It is therefore not justified to say automatically that our success in increasing passenger numbers is due to privatisation.

The Select Committee raises a number of concerns about the package, one of which relates to the proposal to separate infrastructure management and service operation. That thread runs through the whole package. It is ironic that against the background of our success, the Government are trying to bring the operators and the infrastructure holders closer together. That is being done in a number of ways, including through the development of partnerships between the national rail network and the transport operators and through what is prescribed in the new rail franchises. It is important that the European package does not prevent the working together that this country is trying to develop.

It is also important that that division does not apply to light rail services, where management of the services and ownership of the network are combined, as in the case of the docklands light railway. Those services are extremely successful and they must not be jeopardised.

Before the package was published, it was thought that it would require the complete separation of infrastructure ownership and service operation, but that is not the case. The package says that there can still be a holding company, as there is in some other European countries, that owns both the network and the train operation. However, it says that there must be strict Chinese walls to separate the two.

A major concern of the Committee is that the regulations on how much of the rail service of any one country an organisation can hold will restrict the opportunities for UK companies to bid for overseas business in the way that the European companies that run large sectors of our rail industry have done here.

In the short amount of time left, I would like to mention the omissions that the Committee is concerned about. There is a need to encourage cross-border services

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for both freight and passengers. Track access charges are an extremely important issue. We were told repeatedly that high access charges are impeding the development of cross-border services. There seems to be no recognition of that in the Commission’s package. Border control is another area that requires attention, but to which no attention was paid in the Commission’s rail package.

Those are the Committee’s key concerns with regard to the expansion of our rail services. We made other points too, but I have only had a limited time in which to speak. We are also concerned about the omissions. I listened to the Minister’s comments at the beginning of the debate. I am confident that he will take our points forward and I hope he will ensure that they are considered fully in the discussions in Europe before the package is finalised.

1.3 pm

Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): First, I am glad that the Minister ruled out the connection between HS2 and this Europeanisation of the railway packages.

The European Scrutiny Committee asked for a three-hour debate on this matter. The Minister and the Opposition spokesman took up the best part of an hour, so we are down to five-minute speeches, but I will do my best.

What we need in our railway system is interaction, not integration. Obviously, we have to have compatible gauges because there has to be interaction between our country and the continent. I am very much in favour of trading and political co-operation in Europe, but I object to the Europeanisation of the railways on the one hand and their nationalisation on the other. That analogy, which was given by the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson), is very apt because there is no difference between the two.

The intention of the package is to create a single railway market and to reduce the barriers that are hindering the development of a single EU railway area. That has all the elements of centralisation and the creation of a monopoly in legislative terms. The effect will be to centralise power and reduce the extraordinary necessity for competition, on which the Minister put so much emphasis. Of course, we all want competition. We need the kind of competition that was created, albeit some time ago, in the mid—19th century. My family founded the London to Brighton railway and the Leeds to Thirsk railway, among others. In fact, my ancestor, William Cash, was chairman of the committee of inquiry into George Hudson, the crooked MP who created the monopoly of the railway system. There was a special inquiry into his behaviour and he was eventually driven out. I believe that Europe is probably moving towards the kind of monopoly that had to be unravelled in the United Kingdom.

I am deeply concerned about competition in relation to contracts. We remember the Bombardier fiasco, which affected British jobs. The French and Germans are very good at getting into our systems, but we are not allowed into theirs. We saw what happened with Siemens and Alstom. I have some knowledge of how that worked in practice, being a former Member for Stafford, but we do not have time to go into the details. The reality is that these matters affect British jobs. I remember discussing

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all this with Arnold Weinstock, who was so much in favour of the great venture of Europeanising GEC. I said, “Get the message: you will find that it doesn’t work in the way that you are hoping.” At the end of his life, he had a word with me and said, “You were right after all.” He had found that the system was very unfair and that other countries exploited it. We must have regard to our own national interests.

I am extremely worried about the direction of the railway package. I will go further and say that the Labour party should be worried as well. I would be interested to know what Mr Bob Crow thinks about it. Perhaps we will hear about that in a minute. Although I do not favour trade union control or nationalisation, I do believe in our national interest. Despite the fact that this is only a communication as yet, we know the direction in which it is going and I am not happy about it. The Labour party is doing the wrong thing because it is allowing this to happen. Although it is voting against it today, it will not really resist it for practical purposes. I am afraid that the Government are going to allow a system that will create a centralised monopoly in Europe.

1.8 pm

Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I am a member of the RMT parliamentary group and the chair of the ASLEF group, so in a sense I have an interest in the railways.

The core intention of the fourth railway package is simply to visit the mistakes made in Britain on the rest of the EU. Railway privatisation in the UK is a laboratory experiment that was designed in the EU. It has been an expensive failure which continental Governments would be foolish to imitate. Separating trains from track and privatising train companies to set up liberalised and allegedly competitive rail operations has been massively expensive to taxpayers and passengers. We have the highest fares in Europe and we know all about the taxpayer subsidies. Sir Roy McNulty’s report clearly demonstrated that in concluding that UK railways were up to 40% more expensive to operate than state-owned and integrated railways on the continent.

Some five years ago I had the pleasure of visiting Germany with the Rail Freight Group, and we met Dr Mehdorn, chairman of the German state railways, Deutsche Bahn. He was visibly angry and banged the table with his fist at the prospect of DB being privatised, especially on the “British model,” as he called it, of separating track from trains. The fourth railway package brings that outcome closer. Separating track from train operators has been a serious mistake, and significantly in the UK we have been making moves in the opposite direction towards vertical integration. The fourth railway package will force continental railways to go in the opposite direction and disintegrate—a big mistake.

On the same visit to Germany I met a British transport economist who had been a supporter of the UK privatisation model—a computer model—which apparently told him that such a system would reduce costs and produce efficiency. It had the opposite effect, as McNulty clearly demonstrated. My economist chum confessed to me—rather feebly—that his computer model had failed. I suggested that the logical answer was to renationalise and reintegrate Britain’s railways, to which he had no answer.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1053

Why on earth is the EU pressing ahead with this package? It must simply be ideology, dogma, and serving the interests of those who make money out of privatisation. Incredibly, as we have heard, more than 50% of UK franchises are now operated, or part operated, by European state railways. When English, Welsh and Scottish Railway was taken over by DB Schenker I said, “You’ve been nationalised.” It said, “No we haven’t,” and I said, “Yes. You’ve been nationalised and taken over by the German Government.” It had been a private company in this country.

Are UK railways simply being exploited for profit to the advantage of continental Governments and their taxpayers? The same is happening in the energy sector with companies such as EDF. What nonsense is that? What happens if the fourth package proceeds? It is time to junk this model of railway operations, stop the fourth package, and return to sensible, integrated, publicly owned railways, especially in the UK.

There are, of course, good reasons for international co-operation to promote cross-border travel, but that can be done most easily by nationalised railways negotiating at international and national level. We do not need fragmented private companies trying to do that. As we know, rail travel is growing—I have been a commuter on Thameslink and its predecessors for 40 or 45 years—but it is growing in spite of privatisation, not because of it, and essentially because travelling to work on the roads is becoming more and more difficult. With the growth of the economy, particularly in London, more and more people are commuting.

Railways are wonderful things and the mode of the future, but they need state involvement and state running to make them work properly on behalf of us all, and to make them more efficient. We want to cut railway costs, and the way to do that is to bring them back into public ownership.

1.12 pm

Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): The fourth railway package is the latest effort by the European Commission to reform a European rail sector still dominated by state-owned railway businesses that control both tracks and trains. Most national domestic markets in Europe are largely closed—other than the UK, only Sweden has opened its rail markets. Because the UK already has an open market, it is unlikely that infrastructure separation proposals will have a significant impact in this country. However, the package offers new opportunities for UK operators to enter other European markets with the same ease that European operators have found when trying to enter the UK market. I understand that the package would not affect metro and light rail operations. That makes sense, and I hope the Minister will confirm that today.

I would like to raise a couple of concerns. First, the Commission is proposing to remove the existing exemption that allows the direct award of contracts that do not exceed 10 years. I believe that the 10-year period could be reduced, but there must still be a shorter exemption period to allow for the occasional need to extend rail public service contracts or combine them in a different manner. Even with our competitive tendering arrangements, the Government used that exemption following the cancellation of the competition for the inter-city west coast franchises. Furthermore, temporary arrangements

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1054

for the east coast main line service, which has operated in the public sector since 2009, would no longer be allowed. We need an exemption that allows for temporary operation backed by the public sector.

My second concern is the proposal to centralise powers that currently rest with national safety authorities with the European Railway Agency, as that seems to conflict with the subsidiarity principle. The move from a two-certificate system to the issuing of one safety certificate makes sense, as do proposals to standardise administrative measures across all European Union agencies. I do not, however, see the need to shift responsibility for issuing those safety certificates from national safety agencies to the European Railway Agency—NSAs will be far better able to appreciate circumstances in their own countries than the ERA. I hope that those issues can be satisfactorily resolved, and I support the Government’s aims as laid down in the motion.

1.15 pm

Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab): Before I begin my brief comments—I will keep them brief as we are running out of time—may I say I find it astonishing that over the past three years when the Government have sought to blame somebody for their appallingly failed financial and economic policy, they have blamed the previous Labour Government and not their own policies, yet when they want to take credit for investment in the railways that must have been made at least three years ago under the previous Government, they take credit for that? Such things cannot be done that quickly.

I have a couple of brief points that relate, believe it or not, to the east coast. I have used the east coast main line for the past 16 years to come to London and return to my Leeds North East constituency, and we have seen many changes during that period. Great North Eastern Railway operated that line as a private company extremely well, and led the field. Unfortunately, however, its parent company went into liquidation and the franchise was taken over by the disastrous National Express experiment. When that failed, it had to hand the franchise back to the Government because it could not keep up with the payments it had promised—that is why I made my earlier intervention. I hope the Minister will ensure that if the line is franchised, the franchisee can afford to pay the money it promised.

Since Directly Operated Railways has been running the east coast, it has been a superb service and I thank its staff and management for running that service so efficiently, excellently and profitably. We have heard time and again this afternoon that £640 million has been returned to the Treasury over three years, and it is estimated there will be at least another £160 million in the current financial year. Contrary to what the Minister said, my understanding is that Virgin Rail has returned just £200 million net to the Treasury in 15 years. How does it make sense to say that it will be more profitable and better for the public sector and the Treasury to return the east coast line to private hands for private profit to be paid out to shareholders? Will that improve the service? I would say no. It seems ideological and defies common sense.

Last year I believe that the Government, through Network Rail, gave £172 million to rail operators to compensate passengers for delayed or cancelled trains.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1055

East Coast trains paid £6.6 million of that, not because it was the worst performer but because it was the most honest. The average paid by the other companies was just £400,000. What have they done with that money? Why has that money not been paid back, and why have people not been encouraged to claim in the honest and decent way practised by East Coast? My final question to the Minister—I do not suppose he will have much time to respond—is will he please think again about refranchising the east coast line? If it is not broken, do not try and repair it.

1.18 pm

Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): There is actually something slightly surreal about this debate. So often in this Chamber we hear diatribes from Government Members about how Europe is trying to tell us what to do and interfering in how we do things. We now seem to have a situation in which the Government and many—although not quite all—Back Benchers who have spoken, seem to be happy for us to impose on countries in Europe our view of how railways should be run.

I raised this issue earlier today and perhaps the Minister will answer this time. It seems slightly odd that the McNulty report—which has been mentioned particularly by Conservative Back-Benchers—said that the cost of running the railways seems to be much higher in Britain than in European countries that have a higher degree of state rail operations. If that is the case, why do we suggest that our system is so much better?

In any event, why does Europe have to impose a one-size-fits-all proposal? Why not allow national Governments to have the choice? We are not necessarily arguing that countries must choose to run all their railways publicly. Apart from anything else, a comparator is extremely useful. In politics, we do not often get a chance to see different ways of doing things at the same time, in similar economic circumstances. A comparator allows us to say that one thing works and that another does not.

The five years since East Coast was set up by Directly Operated Railways to run the service have been helpful in that regard. We have learned a considerable amount. The Minister is fond of telling us, as he has today, what Lord Adonis and my right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) said five years ago, but we must learn from what happens. The Secretary of State said earlier today that we must base our decisions on evidence. We now have evidence. In the light of the evidence, it is right to say that we perhaps want to do things in a different way. That is not unreasonable, especially for a Government who have turned semi-circles and circles and done U-turns in a shorter time than five years—they turned on the pasty tax and the caravan tax within months. It is reasonable, after five years, to say that any EU country should be able to choose to have directly operated services. They might want both directly operated services as well as franchises. Why not have both?

East Coast is making an important contribution to our environmental ambitions by making the service more attractive, particularly to people in Scotland, who have the alternative of flying—they are not a captive market. East Coast has made the service more attractive

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1056

by extending services. It has an early morning service—a fast runner—and an evening service that enables people to get back after a late meeting. It offers a service to business customers and those who are able to take advantage of the first class service. Because of that, they might say, “I’m going to take the train rather than fly.” That is very important environmentally.

1.22 pm

John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): When we have such debates, it is important that we consult the people who run the railway system. I therefore refer hon. Members to the evidence provided to the Select Committee on Transport by the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers. When privatisation came about, RMT submitted evidence to the House and made it clear publicly that privatisation would result in a risk to safety. Eventually, Southall, Paddington and Potters Bar happened. I attended the funeral of the driver who died at Southall—he was an ASLEF member and my constituent. I remember the warnings that were given. As a result of privatisation, people such as that driver sacrificed their lives.

This time, RMT is saying clearly that the proposals, if they go ahead, will compromise safety. RMT is saying that the system is fragmented and complicated with numerous interfaces, and that the measure will simply introduce another tier of bureaucracy for it to deal with. Its view is that safety should be dealt with at national level and local level, where there is local knowledge. Yes, interfaces in Europe should be dealt with internationally by agreements within Europe, but safety should rest as a national competence. In that way, we can achieve safety on the basis of the knowledge of those who operate the system.

The second point made by RMT is on infrastructure. It clearly says that there is a move—the measure is a further step—towards a single European infrastructure manager. The House has debated High Speed 2. Many hon. Members on both sides of the House believe that key decisions on infrastructure should be retained at national level. Of course, we need integrated decision making when we go across national boundaries, but basic infrastructure decisions should be based on local knowledge and the representation of local interests, and particularly local constituency interests. The measure will take us beyond that.

RMT’s third point is that rail is effectively a money laundering exercise. This is not petty nationalism, but we see an incremental nationalisation of our railway system by Deutsche Bahn and others. The taxpayer subsidy poured into the system is laundered into investment in those companies’ own countries. Why do I say that? Let me quote the German Transport Ministry. It said:

“We’re skimming profit from the entire Deutsche Bahn and ensuring that it is anchored in our budget—that way we can make sure it is invested in the rail network here”.

The laundering of the British pound into German euros is a deep irony, and it is happening as a result of the UK Government’s proposals to support elements in the package.

Frank Dobson: Perhaps we should have a referendum.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1057

John McDonnell: My hon. Friend says that we should have a referendum, but we will come back to that in due course.

The objection is about democracy. The measure will fetter the hands of a future Labour Government, who will be unable to renationalise the railway network or keep some element of it in public ownership. That is what the measure is about, and why Government Members support it. They want to ensure that no Labour Government can at any time in future bring rail back into public ownership.

A number of us prefer public ownership and have made the arguments time and again. Public ownership is more efficient, more effective and more cost-effective. If hon. Members disagree with that, I suggest they read a succession of Transport Committee reports from the past few years. I appeal to Members on both sides of the House. Whatever they think about rail nationalisation, they should not allow Europe to fetter the hands of a British Government on such a major issue. This is about democracy, and about ensuring that, when we go into the next election, we have the right to implement what is in our party manifestos. If the measure progresses, it will fetter the hands of future Governments, and therefore undermine British democracy when it comes to deciding the future of our transport system.

1.27 pm

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I should like to make a few points in the very few moments left to me. As a member of the RMT group, I commend its important evidence to the Transport Committee.

The Minister can never miss an opportunity to have a go at British Rail—[Interruption.] There is no need for him to intervene yet. He should recall a couple of things. British Rail ran the system from 1948 until privatisation in the 1990s. During that time, there was a great deal of electrification, innovative engineering and scientific research. At the same time, the system was grossly underfunded. British Rail was always denied the funds it needed for infrastructure investment—it was always short of what it needed.

We privatised the railway system, and now spend more on subsidising train operating companies, which make considerable profits out of the system. We are spending more on the system so that we do not control it. Fares are among the highest in Europe, and we have the most expensive and diverse railway system.

I agree with the Minister that, for example, Virgin Trains runs a very good service on the west coast main line. I have travelled on Virgin trains and all the services at various times. The service is very good. I pay tribute to those who work on the trains and run the system—they do it very well with great difficulty. However, the Minister should not run away with the idea that Virgin Trains or any other company has done well because of its investment in the system. Who paid for the west coast electrification? We did. Who is paying for the electrification of the western region? We are.

The system is that we pump public money in for private companies to cream off very large profits. I am a strong supporter of the principle of the railway system and what it can achieve. Railways are the thing of the future. They are efficient and more environmentally sustainable than road traffic. The construction of railways

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1058

has much less environmental impact. I understand the complaints about the route HS2 will take and the impact it will have in various places. I urge those who are concerned, next time they go on the west coast main line, to look at the section of the line that runs parallel to the M1 just south of Rugby. They should look at the land space taken up by the railways, and the number of people and freight travelling on that section of track, and compare it with the environmental impact of the M1, and of the widening of the M1 or any other motorway. The argument for railways is overwhelming.

The document is not a short, easy read, and these are just some of the papers associated with this subject, which is a proposal for the privatisation of the whole railway system across Europe. We do not need that. As many colleagues have said, integration can work within the existing framework. Yes, we need common safety standards. Yes, we need trains running directly from Spain bringing agricultural produce to this country, just as we need trains running directly from Russia and many other countries. That can all be achieved. Switzerland, which is not a member of the EU, has no problems integrating its services with Germany, France and Italy, and I do not think that any other country should have any problems either.

What we have is the worst of all worlds. The public are expected to pay for infrastructure and Network Rail has massive debts because of its investment in the system. I do not complain—

1.31 pm

One and a half hours having elapsed since the commencement of proceedings on the motion, the Deputy Speaker put the Question (Standing Order No. 16(1)).

The House divided:

Ayes 217, Noes 172.

Division No. 227]

[

1.31 pm

AYES

Adams, Nigel

Aldous, Peter

Amess, Mr David

Andrew, Stuart

Bacon, Mr Richard

Baker, Norman

Baker, Steve

Baldry, Sir Tony

Baldwin, Harriett

Barclay, Stephen

Baron, Mr John

Barwell, Gavin

Berry, Jake

Bingham, Andrew

Blackwood, Nicola

Boles, Nick

Bone, Mr Peter

Bradley, Karen

Brady, Mr Graham

Brake, rh Tom

Bray, Angie

Brazier, Mr Julian

Bridgen, Andrew

Brine, Steve

Brokenshire, James

Brooke, Annette

Bruce, Fiona

Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm

Buckland, Mr Robert

Burley, Mr Aidan

Burns, Conor

Burns, rh Mr Simon

Burrowes, Mr David

Burstow, rh Paul

Burt, Lorely

Byles, Dan

Cairns, Alun

Carmichael, Neil

Carswell, Mr Douglas

Chishti, Rehman

Clark, rh Greg

Coffey, Dr Thérèse

Collins, Damian

Colvile, Oliver

Cox, Mr Geoffrey

Crabb, Stephen

Crockart, Mike

Crouch, Tracey

Davey, rh Mr Edward

Davies, Glyn

Davies, Philip

de Bois, Nick

Dinenage, Caroline

Djanogly, Mr Jonathan

Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.

Doyle-Price, Jackie

Duddridge, James

Dunne, Mr Philip

Ellis, Michael

Ellwood, Mr Tobias

Elphicke, Charlie

Eustice, George

Evans, Graham

Evennett, Mr David

Fallon, rh Michael

Fox, rh Dr Liam

Freeman, George

Freer, Mike

Fuller, Richard

Gauke, Mr David

Gibb, Mr Nick

Glen, John

Goldsmith, Zac

Goodwill, Mr Robert

Grant, Mrs Helen

Green, rh Damian

Grieve, rh Mr Dominic

Griffiths, Andrew

Gummer, Ben

Gyimah, Mr Sam

Halfon, Robert

Hammond, Stephen

Hancock, Matthew

Hands, Greg

Harrington, Richard

Harris, Rebecca

Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan

Hayes, rh Mr John

Heald, Oliver

Heath, Mr David

Hemming, John

Herbert, rh Nick

Hinds, Damian

Hoban, Mr Mark

Hollingbery, George

Hopkins, Kris

Howarth, Sir Gerald

Howell, John

Hughes, rh Simon

Huppert, Dr Julian

Hurd, Mr Nick

James, Margot

Javid, Sajid

Jenkin, Mr Bernard

Johnson, Gareth

Johnson, Joseph

Jones, Andrew

Jones, Mr Marcus

Kirby, Simon

Knight, rh Mr Greg

Kwarteng, Kwasi

Laing, Mrs Eleanor

Lancaster, Mark

Lansley, rh Mr Andrew

Latham, Pauline

Lee, Jessica

Lee, Dr Phillip

Leech, Mr John

Lefroy, Jeremy

Leslie, Charlotte

Lewis, Brandon

Lidington, rh Mr David

Lloyd, Stephen

Lord, Jonathan

Luff, Peter

Macleod, Mary

Maude, rh Mr Francis

Maynard, Paul

McCartney, Karl

McIntosh, Miss Anne

Menzies, Mark

Mercer, Patrick

Metcalfe, Stephen

Mills, Nigel

Milton, Anne

Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew

Mordaunt, Penny

Morris, Anne Marie

Morris, James

Mosley, Stephen

Mowat, David

Murray, Sheryll

Nokes, Caroline

Norman, Jesse

Nuttall, Mr David

O'Brien, Mr Stephen

Offord, Dr Matthew

Ollerenshaw, Eric

Ottaway, Richard

Paice, rh Sir James

Parish, Neil

Patel, Priti

Penning, Mike

Penrose, John

Perry, Claire

Pincher, Christopher

Pugh, John

Raab, Mr Dominic

Randall, rh Mr John

Rees-Mogg, Jacob

Reevell, Simon

Reid, Mr Alan

Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm

Robertson, rh Hugh

Rogerson, Dan

Rosindell, Andrew

Rudd, Amber

Sandys, Laura

Scott, Mr Lee

Selous, Andrew

Shelbrooke, Alec

Shepherd, Sir Richard

Skidmore, Chris

Smith, Miss Chloe

Smith, Henry

Soames, rh Nicholas

Soubry, Anna

Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline

Spencer, Mr Mark

Stanley, rh Sir John

Stewart, Bob

Stewart, Iain

Stewart, Rory

Stride, Mel

Stunell, rh Andrew

Sturdy, Julian

Swales, Ian

Swayne, rh Mr Desmond

Swinson, Jo

Syms, Mr Robert

Teather, Sarah

Thornton, Mike

Thurso, John

Timpson, Mr Edward

Tomlinson, Justin

Truss, Elizabeth

Turner, Mr Andrew

Tyrie, Mr Andrew

Uppal, Paul

Vaizey, Mr Edward

Vara, Mr Shailesh

Vickers, Martin

Walker, Mr Robin

Wallace, Mr Ben

Weatherley, Mike

Webb, Steve

Wharton, James

Whittingdale, Mr John

Wiggin, Bill

Williams, Mr Mark

Williamson, Gavin

Wilson, Mr Rob

Wollaston, Dr Sarah

Wright, Jeremy

Wright, Simon

Young, rh Sir George

Zahawi, Nadhim

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mark Hunter

and

Nicky Morgan

NOES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob

Alexander, rh Mr Douglas

Alexander, Heidi

Ali, Rushanara

Allen, Mr Graham

Anderson, Mr David

Ashworth, Jonathan

Austin, Ian

Bain, Mr William

Barron, rh Mr Kevin

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, rh Margaret

Begg, Dame Anne

Benn, rh Hilary

Berger, Luciana

Blackman-Woods, Roberta

Blears, rh Hazel

Blomfield, Paul

Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben

Brown, Lyn

Brown, Mr Russell

Buck, Ms Karen

Burden, Richard

Campbell, Mr Alan

Caton, Martin

Champion, Sarah

Clark, Katy

Clwyd, rh Ann

Coffey, Ann

Corbyn, Jeremy

Crausby, Mr David

Cruddas, Jon

Cryer, John

Cunningham, Mr Jim

Cunningham, Sir Tony

Danczuk, Simon

Darling, rh Mr Alistair

David, Wayne

Davidson, Mr Ian

De Piero, Gloria

Dobson, rh Frank

Docherty, Thomas

Doughty, Stephen

Dowd, Jim

Doyle, Gemma

Eagle, Ms Angela

Evans, Chris

Farrelly, Paul

Fitzpatrick, Jim

Flello, Robert

Fovargue, Yvonne

Gapes, Mike

Gilmore, Sheila

Glindon, Mrs Mary

Goggins, rh Paul

Greatrex, Tom

Green, Kate

Greenwood, Lilian

Griffith, Nia

Gwynne, Andrew

Hain, rh Mr Peter

Hamilton, Mr David

Hamilton, Fabian

Harman, rh Ms Harriet

Harris, Mr Tom

Havard, Mr Dai

Healey, rh John

Hendrick, Mark

Hillier, Meg

Hodge, rh Margaret

Hodgson, Mrs Sharon

Hoey, Kate

Hollobone, Mr Philip

Hopkins, Kelvin

Hosie, Stewart

Howarth, rh Mr George

Hunt, Tristram

Irranca-Davies, Huw

Jackson, Glenda

Jamieson, Cathy

Jarvis, Dan

Johnson, Diana

Jones, Graham

Jones, Susan Elan

Keeley, Barbara

Khan, rh Sadiq

Lammy, rh Mr David

Lavery, Ian

Leslie, Chris

Lewis, Mr Ivan

Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn

Love, Mr Andrew

MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan

Mactaggart, Fiona

Malhotra, Seema

Mann, John

McCann, Mr Michael

McCarthy, Kerry

McClymont, Gregg

McDonald, Andy

McDonnell, John

McFadden, rh Mr Pat

McGovern, Jim

McGuire, rh Mrs Anne

McKechin, Ann

McKenzie, Mr Iain

McKinnell, Catherine

Meacher, rh Mr Michael

Mearns, Ian

Miller, Andrew

Mitchell, Austin

Moon, Mrs Madeleine

Morden, Jessica

Morrice, Graeme

(Livingston)

Morris, Grahame M.

(Easington)

Murphy, rh Paul

Murray, Ian

Nandy, Lisa

Nash, Pamela

O'Donnell, Fiona

Onwurah, Chi

Osborne, Sandra

Pearce, Teresa

Percy, Andrew

Perkins, Toby

Pound, Stephen

Powell, Lucy

Qureshi, Yasmin

Raynsford, rh Mr Nick

Reed, Mr Jamie

Reed, Mr Steve

Robertson, Angus

Robertson, John

Robinson, Mr Geoffrey

Rotheram, Steve

Roy, Lindsay

Ruane, Chris

Ruddock, rh Dame Joan

Sarwar, Anas

Sawford, Andy

Seabeck, Alison

Sharma, Mr Virendra

Sheridan, Jim

Shuker, Gavin

Skinner, Mr Dennis

Slaughter, Mr Andy

Smith, rh Mr Andrew

Spellar, rh Mr John

Stuart, Ms Gisela

Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry

Tami, Mark

Thomas, Mr Gareth

Thornberry, Emily

Timms, rh Stephen

Trickett, Jon

Turner, Karl

Twigg, Derek

Umunna, Mr Chuka

Vaz, rh Keith

Vaz, Valerie

Walley, Joan

Watts, Mr Dave

Williams, Hywel

Williamson, Chris

Wilson, Phil

Winnick, Mr David

Winterton, rh Ms Rosie

Wishart, Pete

Woodcock, John

Woodward, rh Mr Shaun

Wright, Mr Iain

Tellers for the Noes:

Alison McGovern

and

Julie Hilling

Question accordingly agreed to.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1059

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1060

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1061

Resolved,

That this House takes note of European Union Documents No. 5855/13, a Commission Communication: The Fourth Railway Package—completing the single European railway area to foster European competitiveness and growth, No. 6012/13 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Draft Regulation on the European Union Agency for Railways and repealing Regulation (EC) No. 881/2004, No. 6013/13 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Draft Directive on the interoperability of the rail system within the European Union (Recast), No. 6014/13 and Addenda 1 and 2, a Draft Directive on railway safety (Recast), No. 6017/13, a Commission Report on the progress made towards achieving interoperability of the rail system, No 6019/13, a Commission Report on the profile and tasks of other train crew members, No. 5960/13 and Addenda 1 to 5, a Draft Regulation amending Regulation (EC) No. 1370/2007 concerning the opening of the market for domestic passenger transport services by rail, No. 5985/13 and Addenda 1 to 7, a Draft Directive amending Directive 2012/34/EU establishing a single European railway area, as regards the opening of the market for domestic passenger transport services by rail and the governance of the railway infrastructure, and No. 6020/13, a Commission report on the implementation of the provisions of Directive 2007/58/EC on the opening of the market of international rail passenger transport accompanying the Communication on the fourth railway package; supports the Government’s aim of ensuring any resulting measures are appropriate, encourage competition and help to deliver a level playing field across the EU; and further supports the Government’s view that any such measures should be evidence-based, proportionate and reduce or at least minimise the regulatory, administrative and cost burden for industry.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1062

Banks and Banking

1.45 pm

The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid): I beg to move,

That the draft Cash Ratio Deposits (Value Bands and Ratios) Order 2013, which was laid before this House on 26 March, be approved.

The draft order makes changes to the cash ratio deposits scheme, which is how the Bank of England funds its monetary policy and financial stability functions, which in turn benefit sterling deposit takers. Under the Bank of England Act 1998, banks and building societies of a certain size are required to place a proportion of their eligible deposits in a non-interest-bearing account in the Bank of England, which then invests these deposits in interest-bearing assets—specifically gilts—and the return it makes funds its monetary policy and financial stability functions, which benefit the whole of the banking sector, as well as the wider public.

The Government continue to believe that the cash ratio deposit scheme is the right way to fund the Bank’s important policy work. The operation of the scheme means that the Bank’s income is subject to two drivers: first, the gilt rate, and secondly the size of deposits eligible for the scheme, which is largely driven by the performance of the banking sector as a whole. Over the last five-year period, both these drivers have been lower than expected, which has caused a shortfall in the Bank’s funding. The Government are seeking to address this shortfall by recalibrating the parameters of the cash ratio deposit scheme to current economic conditions.More specifically, the order increases the proportion of deposits that eligible financial institutions are required to deposit at the Bank from 0.11% to 0.18% and increases the total amount of deposits that they have to hold to be eligible for the scheme from £500 million to £600 million. Alongside the Bank’s efficiency savings, these changes aim to ensure that its income covers the costs of its policy functions over the next five-year period.

The Bank is also playing its own part. It is committed to bearing down on costs. In particular, it will seek efficiency savings by establishing a shared corporate services model with the Prudential Regulation Authority. The Bank’s budget for the next five-year period takes these savings into account. The Bank also has opportunities to make further efficiency savings. These potential savings have not yet been incorporated into the Bank’s budget, so are likely to reduce the Bank’s running costs even further over the next five-year period. The Treasury will review the Bank’s progress in achieving these savings once the shared corporate services model with the PRA has been established. As part of the review, the Treasury will consider whether there are implications for the Bank’s funding requirements, and in turn for the cash ratio scheme.

Alongside that, and to ensure that the Bank’s important monetary policy and financial stability work continue to be fully funded, the Government have consulted on the changes to the parameters of the cash ratio scheme. It is these changes that are before us today. They are expected to increase the Bank’s income over the next

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1063

five years to ensure that it is more closely aligned to the Bank’s costs. The amount that most institutions are required to deposit at the Bank under the scheme is small. In December 2012, 86% of deposits were made by just 20 institutions, with eight each contributing more than £50 million. The large majority of contributions are clearly from larger banks and building societies. Under the new parameters, some financial institutions will need to hold higher deposits with the Bank, but again it will be the larger banks and building societies that are most affected. In fact, 14 smaller institutions—mostly building societies—will be removed from the scheme altogether.

The Bank of England Act 1998 sets out that the cash ratio deposit rate can be changed only once every six months. The deadline for changing the rate for the next six months is 3 June 2013. If the agreement is not implemented by this date, the shortfall in the Bank of England’s funding will continue, which will be a further detriment to the dividend that the Bank pays to the Exchequer. The change is a sensible one that ensures that the Bank’s important monetary and financial stability functions are fully funded. The Bank of England is playing its part by making efficiencies in its operating costs, and this change ensures that banks and building societies that benefit from the Bank’s policy functions play their part. For that reason, I commend the measure to the House.

1.51 pm

Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): I am glad to have the opportunity to debate this issue on the Floor of the House. The last review—I believe they take place roughly every five years—was in 2008, as part of the changes introduced by the 1998 reforms. We feel that this is a reasonable way of funding the Bank’s policy work, and requiring clearing banks to deposit a proportion of their sterling deposits with the Bank of England to then allow the reinvestment of those, yielding returns of—I am told—roughly around £130 million to pay for administrative and research overheads, seems sensible. As those investment returns have underperformed, what was a Bank of England surplus in 2008 became a deficit recently, and we understand the need to revisit this. We understand the need for the Bank of England to cover its costs; after all, it is not as if it can manufacture money out of thin air. Oh no—actually it can manufacture money out of thin air, but that is another story.

There are two principal issues on which I would like to focus, the first of which is that the order raises the question about the Bank of England’s running costs generally and whether its budget is necessary and justified. The Minister helpfully talked about some of its plans in terms of efficiency savings. It is regrettable that the Bank’s forecasts for economic growth have gone somewhat awry, and they have not necessarily improved in recent years. No doubt the Bank will account for itself on quite why things have gone wrong. Before the financial crisis, the Monetary Policy Committee on average underestimated growth by 0.5%; since the crisis, the Committee has started to overestimate growth by 2%. Obviously, this difficult situation has led to criticisms from David Blanchflower and others, most specifically about the calibre of the forecasting arrangements.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1064

We have also seen problems with the Bank’s development of new approaches to encourage lending to small businesses by the mainstream banks. That has required several iterations, which have not necessarily been successful. There are also the difficulties that the Bank has had in meeting its inflation target, with the Governor having to write to the Chancellor on nine occasions since 2010 because of the missed targets. We know that the Bank of England will have significantly higher costs and that the new Governor of the Bank will have a much larger remuneration package than is currently the case.

The order raises a second question about the impact on the economy if the banks are required to deposit extra sums with the Bank of England, which is why I have a couple of specific questions that I hope the Minister will address. What is the total of sequestered deposits at present, and what would it be under the new 0.18 ratio? Is it roughly £3 billion at present, going up to about £4.5 billion? If an extra billion is sequestered by the Bank of England, what will be the impact on bank balance sheets? I think he said that building societies were likely to be exempt from this measure, but I would be grateful if he clarified that. He will understand that we are concerned about the impact that this might have on the bank levy, which is calculated on bank balance sheet liabilities. If there are changes to balance sheet arrangements as a result of this measure, will that have an impact on Exchequer revenue?

Lastly, is there any anxiety about removing flexibility from mainstream banks that might otherwise have chosen to support lending to businesses, which these sequestered deposits might inhibit? We understand the need for the change, and this has been a useful opportunity to take stock, but we also seek assurances about any impact that these changes might have on banks and building societies and the wider economy.

1.55 pm

Sajid Javid: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his support for the order. He asked some good questions, which I will attempt to answer.

First, he referred to the use of the increased revenue by the Bank of England and to increasing costs of the Bank. There are three main points. First, the Bank is playing its part in making efficiencies by sharing corporate services with the Prudential Regulation Authority, which is a demonstration that the Government expect the Bank not just to ask for more revenue to cover its costs but to try to find better ways of generating value for money.

Secondly, in real terms—even after this change—the budget of the Bank of England will be around the same as what it was in 2000-01, so it has not seen a large increase in spending when compared with many Government Departments. The Bank is taking on new responsibilities and its functions have changed over the last decade or so. It is trying to accomplish all that with a budget, through the cash deposit ratio scheme, similar in real terms to what it was in 2000-01.

Thirdly, as the hon. Gentleman recognised, the Bank of England’s responsibilities have changed, especially since the financial crisis. The Bank has had to run numerous schemes and to do a lot more work in terms of financial stability, including new schemes such as the

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1065

funding for lending scheme and others. I hope that he recognises—I think he does—that the Bank of England needs to cover the costs of these additional schemes.

In terms of the deposits that are affected, we estimate—this is an estimate from December 2012; the estimates will be updated, and I hope the hon. Gentleman appreciates that it is not easy to have the exact number—that about 86% of all sterling deposits in the UK are eligible. That is made up of about 20 institutions, eight of which contribute more than £50 million; the largest banks, naturally, make the biggest contribution.

The hon. Gentleman talked about some institutions being exempt; it was not quite that. As we have raised the bar—the eligibility requirement in the order—from £500 million to £600 million, some smaller deposit-making institutions will now be excluded from the scheme. Rather than being exempt, they are, technically, excluded from the scheme if their deposits are less than £600 million. My understanding is that almost all those 14 smaller institutions are smaller local building societies, which I think is welcome, as it reduces a cost—albeit a small one —for smaller institutions that support local communities.

The hon. Gentleman asked whether we had made any assessment of the economic impact. The Treasury has not done so specifically, because even once the change is taken into account, our view is that there would be a negligible impact as the Bank will not receive a significant increase in revenue from these operations. As he will know, many of the banks concerned would in any case have deposits with the Bank of England beyond the scheme, as part of their capital reserves, so there is no reason to think that the change would make a big difference to their reserve management programmes or would therefore necessarily have an impact on their lending programmes.

With that, I hope I have satisfactorily responded to the hon. Gentleman’s questions, and I again welcome his support for the order.

Question put and agreed to.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1066

Notices of Questions

2 pm

The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Brake): I beg to move,

That, in respect of Questions to the Secretary of State for Wales for oral answer on Wednesday 15 May in the next Session of Parliament, paragraph (5)(a) of Standing Order No. 22 (Notices of Questions, Motions and Amendments) shall apply with the substitution of three days for four days.

Regular participants in oral questions to the Secretary of State for Wales will be aware that the deadline for submitting questions and for their printing and circulation is normally Tuesday for questions on Wednesday of the following week. This recognises Standing Order No. 22 (5)(a), which specifies at least four days, excluding Friday, Saturday and Sunday, between circulation of questions and their subsequent answering where they relate to the territorial Departments and the Attorney-General. The motion before the House is necessary, given the imminent Prorogation, and replaces the normal Standing Order requirement of four days with three days, thereby providing for questions to be circulated on the first day that Parliament returns, Wednesday 8 May, for answering the following Wednesday, 15 May. I commend the motion to the House.

2.1 pm

Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): I will not detain the House for very long—obviously we are approaching the Prorogation. We very much welcome the spirit in which the Government have sensibly approached this issue, but as we are proroguing this afternoon, I hope that the Deputy Leader of the House can confirm that, given the breaking news on Leveson, the Government will set out their response at the first opportunity when we come back after the Gracious Speech.

Tom Brake: The House will of course have opportunities in the new Session to debate those issues.

Question put and agreed to.

Petitions

School Uniform Supply Regulations

2.2 pm

Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): I present a petition on behalf of more than 250 residents in Feltham who have signed this or the original petition on similar lines to express their concerns about school uniform supply regulations. I particularly acknowledge the efforts of Mr David Howell MBE and Mrs Rani Kalsi in the campaign.

As someone who grew up in a shop that sold school uniforms, among other clothing and crafts, I know that buying a school uniform is a big milestone for a child joining a new school. However, residents have told me about the stress it can cause, particularly with more than one child at different schools, and especially for those without access to a car to travel distances of even two to three miles to buy a school uniform. Residents have talked about the benefit of being able to buy from local suppliers in the community who know the schools

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1067

and local families. The petition seeks to encourage opportunities for local enterprises to become suppliers of local school uniforms to school specifications, through an open tendering process.

The petition states:

The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government to make amendments to school uniform supply regulations to allow opportunities for local enterprise suppliers.

Following is the full text of the petition:

[The Petition of residents of Feltham and Heston,

Declares that the Petitioners believe that Central Government should amend regulations in regard to school academy’s powers to make decisions on appointing school uniform suppliers without formally opening tendering opportunities to local enterprise suppliers and believe that the London Borough of Hounslow should formally join this application for amendment.

The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government to make amendments to school uniform supply regulations to allow opportunities for local enterprise suppliers.

And the Petitioners remain, etc.]

[P001174]

Objections to Incinerator for Huntington (South Staffordshire)

2.3 pm

Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): I, like many of my constituents, vehemently oppose the proposal for a biomass and anaerobic digester facility to be built in Huntington.

The petition states:

The Petition of a resident in the UK,

Declares that the Petitioner objects to planning permission for a renewable energy facility on Cocksparrow Lane, Huntington, which has the potential to devalue surrounding properties and businesses; further that a renewable energy facility could cause problems like smell pollution and noise pollution and could cause increased traffic congestion in the area; further notes that this could cause increased risk to Littleton Primary School foot traffic, due to increased large vehicular traffic, and could have a

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1068

negative effect on local business and trade, be detrimental for local wildlife and become an eyesore within the local natural green belt.

The Petitioner therefore requests that the House of Commons urges the Government to take all possible steps to ensure that their objections to this planning application are noted by Staffordshire County Council.

And the Petitioner remains, etc.

[P001175]

Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): The sitting is suspended. Shortly before the sitting resumes, Mr Speaker will order the Division bells to be sounded. For the convenience of the House, it is anticipated that this will be shortly before 3.15 pm.

2.5 pm

Sitting suspended (Order, 22 April).

message to attend the lords commissioners

3.21 pm

Message to attend the Lords Commissioners delivered by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.

The Speaker, with the House, went up to hear Her Majesty’s Commission; on their return, the Speaker sat in the Clerk’s place at the Table.

Royal Assent

Mr Speaker: I have to acquaint the House that the House has been to the House of Peers, where a Commission under the Great Seal was read, authorising the Royal Assent to the following Acts:

Justice and Security Act 2013

Groceries Code Adjudicator Act 2013

Succession to the Crown Act 2013

Partnerships (Prosecution) (Scotland) Act 2013

Crime and Courts Act 2013

Marine Navigation Act 2013

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013

Public Service Pensions Act 2013

Defamation Act 2013

Growth and Infrastructure Act 2013

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1069

Her Majesty’s Most Gracious Speech

Mr Speaker: I have further to acquaint the House that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, one of the Lords Commissioners, delivered Her Majesty’s Most Gracious Speech to both Houses of Parliament, in pursuance of Her Majesty’s Command. For greater accuracy I have obtained a copy, and also directed that the terms of the Speech be printed in the Journal of this House. Copies are being made available in the Vote Office.

The Speech was as follows:

My Lords and Members of the House of Commons.

My Ministers' first priority has been to reduce the deficit and restore economic stability. In pursuance of this aim legislation has been enacted to establish a new framework for financial regulation in the United Kingdom.

Legislation has been passed to encourage long term growth and to simplify regulation. Provision has been made for a Green Investment Bank and to reform employment tribunals.

Legislation has been enacted to create a growth incentive for councils by enabling them to retain income from business rates and to provide a framework for the local administration of support for council tax.

My Government has increased support to business and is expanding or opening diplomatic missions where commercial opportunities are greatest.

My Government has promoted investment in infrastructure. Legislation was enacted to authorise expenditure for a scheme to provide financial support for key infrastructure projects, as was legislation aimed at promoting economic growth and encouraging new infrastructure projects.

Legislation was passed to modernise the regulatory framework for civil aviation in the United Kingdom and to charge large heavy goods vehicles using the road network. For operators registered in the United Kingdom, the new charge will be offset by reductions to Vehicle Excise Duty.

Measures have been passed to establish an independent adjudicator to ensure supermarkets deal fairly and lawfully with suppliers.

In recognition of the valuable work carried out by charitable organisations, legislation was passed to reduce burdens on charities, enabling them to claim additional payments on small donations.

With regard to the justice system, legislation was enacted to establish the National Crime Agency to tackle serious organised crime and to strengthen border security. Measures were also enacted to reform the courts to increase efficiency, transparency and judicial diversity.

My Government attaches the highest importance to ensuring the security of the nation and upholding the rule of law. Measures have been passed to strengthen oversight of the security and intelligence agencies. This legislation included provision to allow courts, through the limited use of closed proceedings, to hear a greater range of evidence in national security cases.

Legislation was also enacted to protect freedom of speech and reform the law of defamation to ensure that a fairer balance is struck between freedom of expression and the protection of reputation.

Reform of the public services continues to be a priority for my Ministers. Legislation has been enacted to reform public service pensions in line with the recommendations of the independent commission on this matter.

25 Apr 2013 : Column 1070

My Government worked in co-operation with their counterparts in the 15 other Commonwealth Realms and legislation has been passed in the United Kingdom to reform the rules governing the succession to the Crown.

Legislation was also enacted to introduce individual registration of electors and improve the administration of elections.

In this Session of Parliament, my Ministers have also endeavoured to publish draft legislation in order that it may be scrutinised by Parliament prior to the formal legislative process.

My Ministers have continued to work to foster a strong working relationship with the devolved administrations.

My Government has promoted global security, supporting efforts to achieve a political solution in Syria; helping French and African forces in Mali; and promoting Afghan peace and reconciliation efforts.

Several measures have been passed in relation to the European Union, including legislation relating to the financial stability mechanism within the euro area and on the accession of Croatia to the European Union.

My Government has given a commitment to invest nought point seven per cent of national income on official development assistance.

In the year of the Diamond Jubilee we were pleased to attend celebrations in all parts of the United Kingdom. I was touched by the great kindness shown in this country and throughout the Commonwealth. The Duke of Edinburgh and I were pleased that members of the Royal Family were able to mark the Jubilee year by undertaking a series of visits to many Commonwealth countries and British Overseas Territories where they were welcomed so warmly.

The Duke of Edinburgh and I were delighted to greet so many visiting Heads of State and Government during the Olympic and Paralympic Games hosted in London.

We were also glad to welcome His Highness the Emir of Kuwait and His Excellency the President of the Republic of Indonesia on their visits to the United Kingdom.

Members of the House of Commons:

I thank you for the provisions which you have made for the work and dignity of the Crown and for the public services.

My Lords and Members of the House of Commons:

I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels.

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