Public Accounts CommitteeSupplementary evidence from Dr Francis Beresford

In my previous email evidence to the Public Accounts Committee I did not include the calculations for the correct reduction in interpreter pay that I quoted as I had hoped that the National Audit Office (NAO) would submit revised figures itself. However this may not happen and I therefore attach below an appendix giving the calculations which have also been sent previously to the NAO. It is clear from the appendix in the NAO report that they were given the wrong figures on which to base their calculations as the rates they quote do not include travel time, mileage and parking all of which were paid as standard under the previous National Agreement. These have all been either removed or greatly reduced under the new arrangements with Capita/ALS.

APPENDIX

Court Rates under the National Agreement in 2011

Minimum payment for committing up to 7 hrs of time excluding travel time: £85.
Further attendance beyond 3 hrs £7.50 per 15 minutes.
Travel time: £15/hr calculated to next 5 or 15 minutes depending on the court.
Travel expenses 25p/mile (45p if no reasonable transport public transport alternative).
Parking expenses as receipted—average approx. £4 for 2.5 hr job (Which? Feb 2011 City parking rates).
Cancellation rate: Less than 24 hrs before = £85, nil prior to this.

Tribunal Rates in 2011

Minimum payment including travel time for 1hr: £48 (this was effectively for a 1–2 hour commitment for Social Security Tribunals and a whole day commitment for Employment Tribunals).
Attendance rate: £26/hr calculated by 5 minute quotients.
Travel time: £16/hr (by 5 min quotients).
Travel expenses: 25p/mile.
Parking expenses: nil but extra travel time allowed to walk from free/low rate parking.
Cancellation rate: Less than 24 hrs before = £48, nil prior to this.

CPS Rates in 2011 (Prior to the Change to Court Rates)

Minimum payment for 3hrs including travel time: £85.
Further time whether for travel or interpreting: £30/hr per 15 mins or part thereof.
Travel expenses: 25p/mile.
Parking expenses: as receipted (see Courts for an average).
Cancellation rates: Less than 24 hrs before = £85. Prior to this nil.

ALS Rates

Minimum payment (for Tier 2 which is the default tier) for one hour: £20.
Minimum payment for Tier 1 (Crown courts on request): £22.
(ratio of Magistrates:Crown cases is 3:1, ALS will know ratio of Tier 2: Tier1 cases).
Further attendance: £20 per hour per one minute quotient (ie33 pence/minute for Tier 2 or 37 pence/minute for Tier 1) (see contract).
15 minutes early arrival payment: £5.50.
Travel time: nil for < 2hrs. More than 2hrs paid at £10/hr. ie £10 for 3hrs total travel.
Travel expenses: 40 p/mile* but only after the first 20 miles.
Parking expenses: nil.
Cancellation rates: only if cancelled after arrival of interpreter. Fee to interpreter not known.

* In February ALS was only paying for the distance as the crow flies which would reduce mileage payment on average to around 30p/mile or less and whether this still pertains needs checking. In these calculations it is assumed it is paid by road distance.

ALS 1 Minute Extra Time Payments vs NA 15 Minute Extra Time Payments

(applicable for jobs over 3 hrs, assumes Tier 1 rates)

Minutes past 1 hour	ALS	NA	Difference (for ALS)
1 min	0.37	7.50	−7.13
2 min	0.73	7.50	−6.77
3	1.09	7.50	−6.41
4	1.46	7.50	−6.04
5	1.83	7.50	−5.67
6	2.20	7.50	−5.30
7	2.57	7.50	−4.93
8	2.93	7.50	−4.57
9	3.30	7.50	−4.20
10	3.67	7.50	−3.83
11	4.03	7.50	−3.47
12	4.40	7.50	−3.10
13	4.77	7.50	−2.73
14	5.13	7.50	−2.37
15	5.50	7.50	−2.00

On average = £4.57 extra (sum of difference/15) under the NA (rounded to £ 4.50 below)

Typical Magistrates’ Court Case

Attendance time: 2.5hrs.
Realistic return travel time 1.5 hrs (typical range in North-West 1–2.5hrs).
Travel distance: 30 miles return journey (typical range in North-West 10–80 miles).
Hours worked = 4 hrs.
NA payment = £85 (2.5hr attendance) + £22.50 (travel time) + £7.50 (travel expenses) = £115.00.
ALS payment = £50 (2.5hr attendance) + £0 (travel time) + £4 (travel expenses for 10 miles).
+ £5 (web supplement) + £5.50 (early arrival)—£4 (parking) = £60.50.
ie 47% reduction.

Longer Magistrates’ Court Case

Attendance time: 5 hrs.
Realistic return travel time: 1.5 hrs (range 1–2.5 hrs).
Travel distance: 30 miles return journey (range 10–80 miles).
Hours worked including travel = 6.5 hrs.
NA payment = £85 + £60 (5hrs attendance) + £22.50 (travel time) + £7.50 (travel expenses).
+ £4.50 (av for 15min vs 1min) = £179.50.
ALS payment = £100 (5hrs attendance) + £0 (travel time) + £4 (travel expenses for 10 miles).
+ £5 (web supplement) + £5.50 (early arrival)—£8 parking = £106.50.
ie 41% reduction.

Crown Court Case with more Travel

Attendance time: 2.5 hrs.
Travel time: 4hrs.
Travel distance: 140 miles.
Hours worked including travel = 6.5.
NA payment: = £85 (2.5hr attendance) + £60 (travel time) + £35 (travel expenses) = £180.
ALS payment = £55 (2.5hr attendance) + £20 (2hrs travel time) + £48 (travel expenses for 120 miles) + £5 (web supplement) + £5.50 (early arrival)—£4 parking = £129.50.
ie 28% reduction.

Short Court Case

Attendance time 1 hr or less.
Travel time: 1.5hrs.
Travel distance: 30 miles.
NA payment = £85 (1 hr attendance) + £22.50 (travel time) + £7.50 (travel expenses) = £115.
ALS payment = £20 (1 hr attendance) + £0 (travel time) + £4 (travel expenses for 10 miles).
+ £5 (web supplement) + £5.50 (early arrival)—£3 parking = £31.50.
ie 73% reduction.

Typical Social Security Tribunal (the Majority of Tribunals)

Attendance time 1 hr or less.
Travel time: 2hrs.
Travel distance: 40 miles.
Tribunal payment: £26 (attendance) + £32 (travel travel) + £10 (travel expenses) = £68.
ALS payment: £20 (attendance) + £0 (travel time) + £8 (travel expenses for 20 miles) + £5 (web supplement) + £5.50 (early arrival) = £38.50.
ie 43% reduction.

Typical Employment Tribunal

Attendance time: 4hrs.
Travel time: 2hrs.
Travel distance: 40 miles.
Tribunal payment: £104 (attendance) + £32 (travel time) + £10 (petrol) = £146.
ALS payment: £80 (attendance) + £0 (travel time) + £8 (travel expenses) + £5 (web supplement) + £5.50 (early arrival) = £98.50.
ie 33% reduction.