Draft Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of Duration of Non-Jury Trial Provisions) Order 2013
The Committee consisted of the following Members:
† Bingham, Andrew (High Peak) (Con)
† Burley, Mr Aidan (Cannock Chase) (Con)
Godsiff, Mr Roger (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)
† Goodwill, Mr Robert (Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty's Treasury)
† Hillier, Meg (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
† Hilling, Julie (Bolton West) (Lab)
Jackson, Glenda (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)
† Lloyd, Stephen (Eastbourne) (LD)
Paisley, Ian (North Antrim) (DUP)
† Penning, Mike (Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office)
† Pound, Stephen (Ealing North) (Lab)
† Shelbrooke, Alec (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)
† Walker, Mr Robin (Worcester) (Con)
† Zahawi, Nadhim (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)
Martyn Atkins, Committee Clerk
† attended the Committee
Fourth Delegated Legislation Committee
Tuesday 25 June 2013
[Mr David Crausby in the Chair]
Draft Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of Duration of Non-Jury Trial Provisions) Order 2013
2.30 pm
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mike Penning): I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the draft Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of Duration of Non-Jury Trial Provisions) Order 2013.
It is a pleasure, Mr Crausby, to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon. Under the order, trials without jury can take place in Northern Ireland under certain circumstances for a further two years. I tend to say this quite often, but we would all like it were the order not necessary. We would like normalisation to proceed faster. Northern Ireland has come an awfully long way, but the order is sadly still necessary.
There remains in Northern Ireland a serious threat from a small but dangerous minority. In the last year, we have seen the amalgamation of dissident republican groups referring to themselves as the “new IRA”, even though we would all agree that there is nothing new about them; they are just old-fashioned thugs who continue to intimidate, maim and kill people in the Province of Northern Ireland. Witness intimidation is therefore very real. The Government want to see a return to full-jury trials in Northern Ireland as soon as possible, but it is not possible at present. The police continue to work hard and tirelessly with other security agencies to stop terrorist activity and so far this year, there have been 80 arrests, 38 charges and 26 seizures of weapons or explosive materials.
Northern Ireland has made great strides towards normalisation. The vast majority of the population want normalisation in the Province. The recent G8 summit in Fermanagh showed the progress that has been made. The summit was brilliantly pulled off not only by politicians in Northern Ireland and Great Britain but by the security forces, the police and other agencies. Unfortunately, however, jury trials in Northern Ireland are not safe from possible disruption caused by terrorist activity, which is why the order is before us today. I hope that the Committee will agree to a two-year extension, during which time I hope that we can move towards the normalisation of jury trials.
2.32 pm
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): May I echo the Minister’s words in saying what a pleasure it is, Mr Crausby, to serve under your generous direction?
There is an element of “Here we go again” about this order, because we frequently face in Northern Irish business the reality of a world that we would rather not be in, but sadly we have no choice and must operate within the parameters of the reality in which we find ourselves. There is absolutely no doubt that issues such
as non-jury trials, which none of us are particularly comfortable with, have to be addressed.The Minister is on the record as saying that non-jury trials were once the norm. The presumption now in Northern Ireland is that a trial will be a jury trial. The exception to that rule is the occasional use of a non-jury trial—what we used to call a Diplock court in the old days. During 2013, just nine certificates for non-jury trials were issued. During 2012, 25 certificates were issued and three refused. The figure for non-jury trials is some 1.5%, which is very low. I can understand the concerns of those who regard the matter as emblematic and somehow symptomatic of a wider issue and who believe that even one non-jury trial would be too many. The reality, however, is that in Northern Ireland, which is a tiny country with a population of about 1.5 million people, there is a degree of intimacy in certain communities that makes issues such as witness intimidation and jury tampering very dangerous.
I do not often pray in aid television programmes, but I cannot be the only member of the Committee to be enthralled by the five episodes of “The Fall”—and not just because of Gillian Anderson. The third episode showed a police officer arresting a person of rather unpleasant background who then says, “I know where you live.” A few frames later, the police officer comes home and is shot and killed on his doorstep. It is very unusual in GB to imagine somebody knowing precisely where somebody else would live and being able to respond so quickly. Sadly, that is the situation in Northern Ireland, which is why we certainly have to have this particular legislation at present.
The figures are pointing in the right direction, and, like the Minister, I hope that the legislation will ultimately become redundant. We do not seek to have it enshrined in statute. This is a renewal order. It must be renewed and will continue to be re-examined. I profoundly hope that the time will come when it will not need to be renewed. Sadly, that moment has not yet reached us. It is salutary and worthy of comment that we are now seeing non-jury trials in GB, in particular in complex fraud cases—and in a recent case regarding a huge robbery at Heathrow airport—where the risk of intimidation and a failed jury trial is so great that non-jury trials are considered.
Today, we are here to renew the order. The matter is not contentious and the Opposition support the Government. We will obviously continue to monitor the situation. We have our concerns about the principle, but as regards the practicality and the reality of daily life, we support the Government and endorse the extension of non-jury trials.
2.36 pm
Mike Penning: I reiterate the shadow Minister’s point about 2013 seeing only nine certificates issued and one request refused, leaving the majority of cases to go through the courts with juries, which is what we want. In reviewing whether to renew the legislation, the Secretary of State canvassed the opinion of the main stakeholders, all of whom were in favour of renewal, as are the Opposition.