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Stephen Doughty: I will not give way again as I do not have enough time and other Members want to speak.
I also remain deeply concerned and confused about the differential impact this Bill will have in the nations of the UK, as we have heard from other colleagues, and especially in Wales, subject as we are now to multiple election cycles, different periods of purdah and regulated periods. We have also heard concerns about the run-up to the referendum vote. Can Ministers provide any assurance that campaigning by civil society and charities in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will not be hampered by these measures even more than they appear likely to hamper that work in England?
Finally, I cannot let pass the opportunity to add my voice of concern to those who see the trade union-related provisions of this Bill as nothing more than a naked attempt—uncoincidentally, just before the TUC—to make a crude and partisan attack on those organisations. In particular, I want to draw the House’s attention to the concerns expressed by the Wales TUC, which has spoken out very clearly this week. It is deeply concerned that not only could the Wales TUC conference cease to be lawful in 2014, but that this Bill’s provisions could undermine the special social partnerships the Wales TUC has with the Welsh Government, as enshrined in the Government of Wales Acts, and that it could damage their anti-racism campaigning work in constituencies across Wales from May 2014. That point has been made by Hope not Hate and many other organisations.
In conclusion, in the aftermath of a week in which we have seen Parliament’s ability to hold the Government to account very much enhanced, regardless of what side of the argument we came down on, it would truly be a tragedy to see the restriction of the voice and opportunity for influence of millions of people across the country— whether by postcard, protest, tweet or e-mail—in our political system and our civil society. There are some other agendas at work here. We had a whiff of that from the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg). Some Government Members and some in other parts of our society would like to see these organisations clamped down on, and an attempt made to exert undue influence on them through funding arrangements and other things, but I think civil society will speak out and not have that.
We should be speaking out to enhance the people’s voice and to balance out the influence of money, power and privilege, which this Bill does nothing to counter. It is truly a rotten, ill-thought-out and cynical piece of legislation, and I will be voting wholeheartedly against its Second Reading.
Mr Speaker: Order. The Front-Bench wind-ups will begin at 6.40 pm, so we have 16 minutes remaining before then, and four hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. Hon. Members are very capable of doing the arithmetic for themselves.
6.24 pm
Mr Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab):
This has been a sleaze-ridden Government, as we all know. There have been at least eight well-reported
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lobbyist scandals in the past three years and one thing links them all—none of them will be covered by this Bill, including the enormous scandal over Lynton Crosby. The Bill is ridiculously narrow—it is estimated to cover only 1% of ministerial meetings—and that ensures that more than 80% of the activity of the lobbying industry will not be regulated and will not have to register.
The Bill actually provides less transparency than there is now. It sets up a new register with much lower standards of practice than there are even under the voluntary register—for example, it contains no code of conduct. Loopholes mean that lobbyists will still keep their client lists secret. Lobbyists will not have to register if they have a business that, it can be argued, is mainly a non-lobbying business—that will give lawyers a field day. The Bill will not require consultant lobbyists to declare how much they spent on their lobbying activities. That is a crucial omission, but the biggest omission is the lack of a code of conduct backed by sanctions, which means that the whole exercise is spineless, as there will be no penalties for bad practice.
As we know, part 2 outrageously curtails the ability of charities and other non-party groups to campaign on political issues in the 12 months before a general election. The Bill cuts by almost two thirds the amount that third-party groups can spend during that period. As has frequently been mentioned, there is great uncertainty about what the Bill means by “for political purposes”. The uncertainty about how exactly that will be operated is bound to have a chilling effect on freedom of expression.
The Bill also contains anti-trade union provisions. Unions with more than 10,000 members are to be required to submit to the certification officer an annual membership audit certificate, in addition to the current duty to submit an annual return. The certification officer will have the power to require the production of relevant documents, including membership records and even private correspondence. What is the rationale for these draconian provisions? No evidence is put forward in the discussion paper to demonstrate that communications are not reaching union members or that there are any shortcomings in the trade unions’ duty to maintain a register of members. Not a single objection has been raised to the certification officer in the past two years on these grounds. Lobbyists are being let off the hook almost entirely by the Bill, so why are trade unions gratuitously and wantonly being screwed down to tighten a system that is already working perfectly satisfactorily, without a shred of evidence being provided to suggest otherwise? [Laughter.] There has not been a single objection in the past two years to the certification officer; the hon. Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma) ought to consult the facts.
Surely it is obvious that the real motive behind this part of the Bill is that the Government are eager to help employers to mount injunction proceedings when union members have voted for industrial action, seizing on minor, if not minuscule, details which the Court of Appeal had previously regarded as de minimis or accidental. That whole process of inserting minor, minute, technical, bureaucratic obstacles and hurdles in the path of unions that are carrying out their perfectly legitimate and proper functions is really behind part 3.
Even by the standards of this Government, this is a nasty little Bill. It is full of vicious partisanship and it will be a stain on the statute book of this country if it is
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allowed to pass. Like many hon. Members, I strongly believe that what is needed is for the Leader of the House to have the courage to withdraw this Bill, in the light of the fact that there is almost no support for it across the House, and to start the process again via consultation and negotiation in the Select Committee on Political and Constitutional Reform.
6.29 pm
John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): I have some questions for the Minister to answer, if he will. Under the Bill, will paid transport provided by the South Cambridgeshire Conservative association for people to go to the London mayoral election be covered as third-party expenditure? Will the Tatton patrons’ club, as an independent body, be required to declare those who have contributed to its expenditure and where that expenditure has gone? Will that also apply to other patrons’ clubs of other Conservative associations across the country? When money from Tatton, Witney, Surrey Heath and many other patrons’ associations goes via constituency association accounts to other third parties—in other words, to other Tory associations—none of that is now specifically declared. Will the Bill require both sides to declare such activity?
My right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron), the Chairman of the Committee on Standards and Privileges, made a point about the role of MPs as lobbyists. I eventually but successfully took 43 different firms of solicitors through the Law Society for misconduct, but I named a number of them publicly in advance without having had constituents come to me. I suspected that I had constituents who had been wrongly charged by them, but I did not have a mandate from a specific individual constituent. Would that action categorically have been permissible under the Bill? If there is a legal challenge in a comparable situation—that case involved firms of solicitors and there were many that might have done that at the time—will there be indemnity for Parliament and for Members of Parliament? I hope that the Minister who replies will give precise answers to those questions, because I think the House deserves to know.
On the general points, there is nothing in the Bill about the imbalance in party funding. The Conservative party wasted £250,000 trying to get rid of me, which had no impact whatsoever. Nevertheless, the unfairness in the democratic system remains. Do the Liberal Democrats intend to introduce an amendment on that point, so that we can support it if the Bill proceeds to its next stage?
On cash for access, we have seen MPs declaring that they are like taxis and we have also seen the recent scandals. Do the Liberal Democrats intend to introduce specific additional proposals to bring such activity into the scope of the Bill? It is wholly missing at the moment. As other Members have demonstrated, bodies such as BSkyB are excluded. Do the Liberal Democrats intend to introduce a specific clause that would bring the major lobbyists under the remit of the Bill, should it be passed today? Or is this a flawed attempt at gerrymandering, a half-cocked Bill that does not give anything to anyone other than confusion?
Finally, let me answer one point for my colleagues on the Opposition Benches who wanted information about why the Bill might be being introduced. There are
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figures for the membership of the Conservative party, so let me give a couple of examples. In South Cambridgeshire, membership has gone down by 21 and they are down to just 13 friends this year. In Tatton, membership has gone down by 43 and in Witney, it has gone down by more than 100. Surrey Heath has lost 350 members—a third of its membership—in the past three years. That might show the crisis in the Conservative party and might be why we have this attempt at gerrymandering today.
6.34 pm
Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab): I did not expect when I was elected in May this year that one of my earlier contributions to the House would be to debate a Bill in this manner, mainly because I was of the impression that the Bill would be preceded by pre-legislative scrutiny. However, I am speaking here today because more concerns have been conveyed to me about part 2 than about any other issue in my short time as a Member. My constituents in South Shields recognise the real danger that part 2 poses to the democratic process. It excludes the voices of small campaign groups up and down the country. It will silence some of the most effective contributors to our national debate. It is clear in the Bill that the Government propose to outlaw charity campaigning and to restrict the activities of the organisations that might hold them to account.
I share the concerns of my right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) about clause 26, which defines “controlled expenditure” as any spending incurred “for election purposes”. According to the explanatory notes,
“the definition of ‘for election purposes’ does not rely solely on the intent of the third party; the effect of the expenditure must also be considered.”
Put simply, any activity that might support any party’s position could apply, even if the activity made no reference to any election or political party. This is very worrying, as it would effectively silence policy experts and civil society organisations in important policy debates.
How valuable can a public discussion of, for example, the bedroom tax be without the impact of campaigning organisations that dedicate their time and resources to studying the problem? How informed can a debate be if the experts who travel the country to talk to our constituents and conduct research are not allowed to participate? Politics goes beyond what happens here in Westminster, and political parties should not be the only voice that voters hear.
I also have serious concerns about the impact that the Bill will have on campaigning groups. Clause 27 will halve the level of spending at which third-party groups will have to register as a recognised third party. Therefore, all manner of smaller organisations with a local or regional focus will now have to comply with a new and complex set of regulations, the costs of which are unclear.
In my constituency, where Government cuts have already led to increasing homelessness and food poverty, those local charities have stepped in to fill the gap. Those organisations do not take a party political stance; their concern is for the welfare of their citizens, yet if they chose to speak about the growing crisis in constituencies
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such as mine, they would be subject to regulations that would divert valuable resources from their work on the ground.
I find it ironic that the Government want to introduce laws that make it more difficult for local campaigners and community groups to have their voices heard. It is shameful to do that under the guise of tackling the worst abuses of lobbying, while not actually doing so. These proposals are unacceptable in a country that prides itself on vibrant and democratic debate. I hope that the Government have listened to my hon. Friends’ concerns today and will commit to fixing the Bill.
6.38 pm
Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): In the very short time left to me, I want to say two things. First, it is significant that the number of Opposition speakers far exceeded that of Government speakers. I therefore suspect that their heart is not really in it if Government Front Benchers could not roust out enough speakers to speak on the Bill.
Secondly, there has been plenty of time to get part 1 absolutely right. The Political and Constitutional Reform Committee was unequivocal in its criticism of the original consultation paper. Unusually, one of the recommendations was to withdraw the whole thing and start all over again, because it was so bad. Having sat through the evidence that we took at that time, it was clear to me that no one on any side of the debate on lobbying was satisfied. The people who wanted more regulation thought that the proposal was not good enough; the people who perhaps did not want regulation also thought that it was very bad.
For a whole year, there was no proper response from the Government. Normally, the Government respond to Select Committees with a detailed report that comments on and argues their position. There was none of that. The issue was kicked into the long grass. A lot of people outside the House noticed that there was nothing on lobbying in the Queen’s Speech. Then, all of a sudden, in a panic, the Bill comes forward. It is not a good Bill. We should not go ahead with it, but we need to do something about lobbying.
6.40 pm
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): Thanks to the wonders of the internet, we already know what The Daily Telegraph thinks about today’s debate. It describes grisly scenes, referring to the contributions of Members on the Government Benches in today’s debate. It has been a particularly interesting debate and I hope the Government have listened very carefully to it—they have not listened to anyone else. They should at least listen to their own Back Benchers, and I will come to that in a moment.
The Government have achieved something remarkable —they have a Bill which is so dreadful that it has united the lobbying industry and campaigners who are trying to bring more openness and transparency to the lobbying industry. They seem to have united the whole of the so-called big society, but it is unity in opposition to the Government’s proposals. They even managed to ensure that the LabourList and ConservativeHome websites both came out against the Bill. Even the ultra-loyalist political blog Lib Dem Voice whispered its reservations about the Bill.
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It has been a fascinating debate. We heard 27 or 28 Back-Bench contributions. I cannot refer to them all but, needless to say, there were powerful contributions from all parts of the House. Eighteen or 19 Opposition Back Benchers made the most powerful speeches in which a wide variety of concerns were articulated—concerns about the voluntary sector, trade unions and the way in which lobbying will effectively be left unregulated if the Bill goes through. Voices were clearly heard from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, which will face additional problems if the legislation is adopted.
Significant contributions were made from the Back Benches by two Members who have been witnesses to lobbying in their own constituencies. One was the hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main), who described behind-the-scenes influence and the expenditure of £12 million on attempts to reverse a planning consent. Let me tell the hon. Lady and the House that the Bill would not cover that as local government is wholly excluded from it, which seems to me to be remiss. We heard witness evidence from my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell), who described—whatever one’s view of the third runway at Heathrow—the most profound activities by employees, as I understand it, of BAA, who have passes to enter the Department for Transport. I have news for the House: those people would not be registered, as the register specifically excludes anybody who is a so-called in-house lobbyist.
The most important contributions of all came from three Chairs of Select Committees, speaking for all members of their Committees. The Chair of the Joint Committee on Human Rights said that he was very concerned that there had been no pre-legislative scrutiny and that the Bill would clearly impact on human rights. My right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron), the Chair of the Standards Committee, warned the House that paragraph 2 of schedule 1 is likely to imperil the privileges of Members of the House which, we heard, have stood intact since the Bill of Rights in 1688. The hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) was the only Member who made what sounded like a positive contribution in relation to the Bill, but he planted a small hand grenade in his speech: he said that he could not support any attack on the rights and privileges of hon. Members. Yet the legislation appears to do precisely that.
Then we heard from the Chair of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen), who told us that the Committee was alarmed by the way the Bill has been introduced and pressed through in quite a reckless way. He assured the House that it was possible to reach a consensus on lobbying, even across the parties and across wider society, if only we took the time. A common theme running through all the contributions was this: why did the Government choose these particular time scales, which prevent pre-legislative scrutiny or witness statements being made to the Select Committee? I will return to that point in due course, because it is a disgrace.
There were seven contributions from Government Back Benchers, and each of them in their own way damned with faint praise either the entire Bill or elements of it. Whether or not the Leader of the House listens to contributions from the Opposition, he would be well
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advised to listen to the warning voices from Members behind him, particularly the story from St Albans. The hon. Members for Stevenage (Stephen McPartland), for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray), for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge) and for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) all warned that powerful vested interests lurk in our society, seeking to influence with the power of money the way we make decisions. They all warned that the legislation is simply inadequate in its present form and needs to be amended. Indeed, the Leader of the House himself said that he thought some amendments would probably have to be brought forward.
The Bill simply fails to live up to the demands of the epoch through which we are living. We live in a time of great flux and of distrust in the ruling political and commercial elites. We live in a democratic century in which—rightly, in my view—the wider public long ago abandoned deferential attitudes to the people at the top. They want to know how decisions are taken and on whose behalf. A quiet revolution is taking place in our country, with the growth of active citizenship, which this House would be foolish to ignore. People are much more active in taking control of their lives, which partly explains the explosion in the number of campaigning organisations, not-for-profit groups and charities. It is not simply that the Government misunderstand the zeitgeist I am describing; in truth, they consistently make the wrong decisions because they are too tightly bound up with the interests of the most rich and powerful in our country, rather than the millions who work hard, play by the rules and struggle hard to get by.
This legislation runs contrary to the spirit of the times in which we live. It permits lobbying by the rich and powerful to continue in an unregulated way and in the shadows, while at the same time it seeks to silence wider civic society. Big tobacco’s voice will still be heard in the seats of power, while the voices of cancer activists will not. The voice of arms manufacturers will be heard, but not that of the Royal British Legion. The voice of private medicine will be heard, but not the unions representing nurses and hospital cleaners. The tax avoidance industry will be heard, but not the tax justice campaign.
The Bill is poorly drafted and needs to be radically amended. We have tabled our reasoned amendment, which I hope Members will vote for. If it is rejected by the House, we should vote against the Bill. We then need to make one further decision tonight, on the allocation of time. I hope that Members who have reservations listen carefully to the point I want to make. The Bill is being stampeded through, and there are strong reasons why more time needs to be given, so we will oppose the programme motion.
Let me give six reasons. First, there has been no pre-legislative scrutiny; secondly, witnesses have not been able to come before the House to react to the Bill; thirdly, the debate on part 1 next Monday will be curtailed because there will be a statement and other business; fourthly, as we have heard, the privileges of MPs will be affected; fifthly, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North has told us that he believes that with time we could get a consensus; and sixthly and most importantly, we are witnessing a Bill that will
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change the British constitution in quite a fundamental way. There is no precedent for imposing an allocation of time motion under those circumstances. I very much hope that the House votes against this Bill.
6.50 pm
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom Brake): We have had a lengthy and impassioned debate, and I am grateful to all Members for their contributions. I am afraid that in the nine or so minutes that are left I will not be able to address all the points that have been made.
First, let me remind Members of what this Bill is intended to achieve. It will push this Government’s culture of openness and transparency further by creating a statutory register of lobbyists, which the Government promised to do in the coalition programme. It will ensure that third parties that campaign at elections do so openly and within a fair regulatory framework. It will provide assurance that trade unions, as increasingly large and diverse membership organisations, know who their members are and can engage effectively with them. Those are all reasonable and valuable changes to our political system.
Let me now address some comments, concerns and myths. The Bill is not about closing down charities’ ability to influence policy, as many Members claimed. I want to put on record the following so that it is clear to Labour Members, because I think there is some confusion. At present, a charity can undertake non-party political activity where its trustees can show that it supports the charity’s purposes and will be an effective use of the charity’s resources. Charity law prohibits charities from engaging in party politics, from party political campaigning, from supporting political candidates, or from undertaking political activity unrelated to the charity’s purpose. Charities, and indeed all other organisations, currently need to register as third parties only if they are spending money on campaigning to procure or promote the electoral success of a party or candidates. That test will remain under the Bill.
As under the current provisions, charities can still give support to specific policies advocated by political parties if that would help to achieve their charitable purposes. Provided that charities continue to campaign as they currently do, maintaining their political neutrality and independence, expenditure incurred by them is unlikely to come within the definition of “controlled expenditure”. It does not now and it will not under our proposals. Of course, the Government have on a number of occasions expressed a willingness to work with charities to ensure that this is clear, and if more guidance is needed, we will certainly ensure that it is in place.
Before dealing with the myths, I want to touch on scientific theories. Today we have had a very significant scientific theory proven—that there are parallel universes. Labour Members are debating a Bill that will gag charities and destroy trade unions; we are building on the transparency already created by this Government in relation to Ministers reporting their meetings by establishing a register of consultant lobbyists, by reducing the risk of super-PACs, or political action committees, and by ensuring that trade unions have up-to-date membership lists.
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I have never heard as many myths as enthusiastically mouthed and endorsed with so little evidence as I have by Labour Members today. The shadow Leader of the House spoke for 44 minutes during which she made no reference to her own party’s policy. We had high-octane rhetoric that was very low in calorific value. She talked about furious displacement activity—reference, presumably, to what happened in the 13 years of Labour Government, when there was furious displacement activity on lobbying but no lobbying legislation. This Government are now acting on that. I wonder whether the hon. Lady feels any embarrassment about her wildly inaccurate allegations about what the Bill will or will not do. I am not sure whether she is doing that because she has not actually read the Bill or because she has misunderstood it. I will give her a couple of examples.
There were a few interventions, one of which alleged that, under this Bill, Make Poverty History would not have happened. That is simply not true. As the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) will know, in 2005 that campaign did not register as a third party campaign, because it conducted its campaigning in the appropriate way as a charity. That will continue under this Bill. Another intervention was on whether the Bill would impact on the Scottish referendum. The shadow Leader of the House indicated that she believes it would have had an impact on Make Poverty History and that it will have an impact on the Scottish referendum, but neither of those cases is relevant to the Bill.
Fiona O’Donnell: If the Deputy Leader of the House is right that there is nothing for charities to fear from the Bill, why are they and the Electoral Commission all so concerned? Is it simply a case of the same old Government excuse of bad communication?
Tom Brake: Clearly, the Electoral Commission has expressed concerns and when the Bill goes through its Committee stage, I am absolutely certain that further clarity will be provided and the commission will be in a better position to provide the guidance it is required to give in order to ensure that charities understand the basis on which we are proceeding.
Bob Stewart: As I understand it, on 18 July the Leader of the House gave a timetable for this Bill and there was no objection to it.
Tom Brake: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD): Some of us are very pleased that the Government are introducing a Bill to deal with transparency of lobbying, which the previous Government never did. There has been an enormous amount of hype and overstatement, but perhaps some improvements could be and need to be made. May I have a clear undertaking that next week’s Committee stage will be open to amendments from across the House, including from relevant Select Committees with an interest in and knowledge of the subject?
Tom Brake:
I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. Clearly, the Government have stated on a number of occasions that we are very keen to work with charities, non-governmental organisations and, indeed,
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Select Committees to ensure that their views are taken into account. That is very much our intention. We also want to ensure that the issue of parliamentarians and the role we play will be clarified very clearly in relation to this Bill.
Mr Allen: Will the Deputy Leader of the House give way?
Tom Brake: I am very happy to give way to the Chair of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee.
Mr Allen: A series of scandals led the Prime Minister to say that lobbying would be the next big crisis for the British political system and to the inclusion in the coalition agreement of a provision to regulate lobbying. Would this Bill attack any of those cases? Is it in any way relevant to the public concern about lobbying?
Tom Brake: As the hon. Gentleman will know—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker: Order. The right hon. Gentleman must be heard; let us hear him.
Tom Brake: As the hon. Gentleman will know, the MPs’ code of conduct covers some of the misdemeanours to which he refers. What we are doing in relation to lobbying is specifically about third party lobbyists.
In conclusion, I reiterate that the Bill is about transparency, openness and fairness. I wanted to spend the limited time available allaying unfounded fears and addressing some of the myths that have been brandished across this Chamber in the past few hours. I wanted to be clear about what this Bill is intended to do and why the Government are doing it. It is not an attack on freedoms and democracy. The very opposite is true, and I commend the Bill to the House.
Question put, That the amendment be made.
The House divided:
Ayes 243, Noes 313.
Division No. 71]
[
6.59 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hermon, Lady
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Ritchie, Ms Margaret
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Ward, Mr David
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Weir, Mr Mike
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Ayes:
Graham Jones
and
Heidi Alexander
NOES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, rh Paul
Burt, Alistair
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Garnier, Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, rh Mr Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
McVey, Esther
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Sir Richard
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Thornton, Mike
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Noes:
Greg Hands
and
Jenny Willott
Question accordingly negatived.
3 Sep 2013 : Column 273
3 Sep 2013 : Column 274
3 Sep 2013 : Column 275
3 Sep 2013 : Column 276
Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 62(2)), That the Bill be now read a Second time.
The House divided:
Ayes 309, Noes 247.
Division No. 72]
[
7.14 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, rh Paul
Burt, Alistair
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Garnier, Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, rh Mr Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Hancock, Mr Mike
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
McVey, Esther
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Sir Richard
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Thornton, Mike
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
Greg Hands
and
Jenny Willott
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
De Piero, Gloria
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hermon, Lady
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Ritchie, Ms Margaret
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Ward, Mr David
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Weir, Mr Mike
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Heidi Alexander
and
Graham Jones
Question accordingly agreed to.
3 Sep 2013 : Column 277
3 Sep 2013 : Column 278
3 Sep 2013 : Column 279
3 Sep 2013 : Column 280
Transparency of lobbying, non-party campaigning and trade union administration Bill (programme)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),
That the following provisions shall apply to the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill:
Committal
(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Committee of the whole House.
3 Sep 2013 : Column 281
Proceedings in Committee
(2) Proceedings in the Committee of the whole House shall be completed in three days.
(3) The proceedings shall be taken on the days shown in the first column of the following Table and in the order so shown.
(4) The proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the times specified in the second column of the Table.
Consideration and Third Reading
(5) Any proceedings on Consideration and proceedings on Third Reading shall be taken in two days in accordance with the following provisions of this Order.
(6) Any proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the second day.
(7) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on the second day.
Programming committees
(8) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to the proceedings on the Bill in Committee of the whole House, to any proceedings on Consideration or to proceedings on Third Reading.
Other proceedings
(9) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on Consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Mr Syms.)
The House divided: Ayes 300, Noes 249.
Division No. 73]
[
7.27 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Mr Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Brazier, Mr Julian
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, rh Paul
Burt, Alistair
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Farron, Tim
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fuller, Richard
Garnier, Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hague, rh Mr William
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, rh Mr Philip
Hammond, Stephen
Hancock, Matthew
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
McVey, Esther
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Maria
Mills, Nigel
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, Richard
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Miss Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Thornton, Mike
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
Greg Hands
and
Anne Milton
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Anderson, Mr David
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Bridgen, Andrew
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
De Piero, Gloria
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Docherty, Thomas
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gardiner, Barry
George, Andrew
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hancock, Mr Mike
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harman, rh Ms Harriet
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hermon, Lady
Hillier, Meg
Hilling, Julie
Hoey, Kate
Hood, Mr Jim
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
James, Mrs Siân C.
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Ritchie, Ms Margaret
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Weir, Mr Mike
White, Chris
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Wilson, Sammy
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Wood, Mike
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Heidi Alexander
and
Graham Jones
Question accordingly agreed to.
3 Sep 2013 : Column 282
3 Sep 2013 : Column 283
3 Sep 2013 : Column 284
3 Sep 2013 : Column 285
3 Sep 2013 : Column 286
Transparency of lobbying, non-party campaigning and trade union administration bill (Money)
Queen’s recommendation signified.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of:
(1) any expenditure incurred by a Minister of the Crown under or by virtue of that Act,
and
(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of
money so provided.—(Mr Evennett.)
Transparency of lobbying, non-party campaigning and trade union administration bill (Ways and Means)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),
That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party
Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill, it is expedient to authorise:
(1) the charging of fees under this Act in connection with a register of lobbyists, and
(2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Mr Evennett.)
Business without Debate
Delegated legislation
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
Public Bodies
That the draft Public Bodies (Merger of the Gambling Commission and the National Lottery Commission) Order 2013, which was laid before this House on 25 March, in the last Session of Parliament, be approved.—(Mr Evennett.)
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
National Health Service
That the draft National Health Service (Licensing and Pricing) Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on 4 June, be approved.—(Mr Evennett.)
Sittings of the House
That, at the sitting on Wednesday 11 September, notwithstanding Standing Order No. 20 (Time for taking private business), the Private Business set down by the Chairman of Ways and Means may be entered upon at any hour, and may then be proceeded with, though opposed, for three hours, after which the Speaker shall interrupt the business.—(Mr Evennett.)
3 Sep 2013 : Column 287
Baroness Thatcher's Legacy
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Mr Evennett.)
7.42 pm
Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con): With your permission, Mr Speaker, I have agreed with the Minister to take a number of interventions on the basis that all the interventions are of a pleasant nature.
Margaret Hilda Thatcher, born on 13 October 1925, died Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven on 8 April 2013, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1979 until 1990, Member of Parliament for Finchley from 1959 until 1992. I was in America visiting my oldest daughter, an aspiring actress, who lives in Hollywood when she knocked on my bedroom door and broke the news that Margaret Thatcher had died. As she is an actress, I did not initially believe what she had said. I could not get back in time for the very moving occasion when the House paid its own tributes, so I am unashamedly using this occasion to pay my tribute to Margaret Thatcher.
I would like to refer Members to a speech I gave from this very place—from where I also made my maiden speech—on 7 December 1990. [Interruption.] As my good friend, the Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s Treasury, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr Evennett), says from a sedentary position, he was there when I made it. It was on a Friday, and I can do no better than quote the motion I initiated:
“That this House notes the political developments in the United Kingdom since 1979; salutes the right honourable Member for Finchley for the part she has played in these developments; congratulates her upon her leadership of the country as Prime Minister for eleven and a half years and pays tribute to the many fine personal qualities that she brought to the performance of her duties, including, in particular, her integrity, steadfastness and courage; and looks forward to her continued contribution to the political life of this country.”—[Official Report, 7 December 1990; Vol. 182, c. 564.]
Of course, 20 years ago I was a little upset about the way in which Margaret was removed from office. I have calmed down now and am in a position to reflect on her life and the service she gave to her country.
Only today, I was contacted by a councillor in Grantham, Councillor Davies; apparently—this is independent of the council—a statue to Margaret is definitely going to be erected there. I support that campaign and I hope that other hon. Members will do likewise in Grantham. I visited Grantham earlier this year, having never been before, and visited Margaret’s birthplace, which is now a health spa. The place is very humble; it certainly was a humble little shop that she used to run, but obviously Grantham has changed and the place is right opposite an Asda. If Margaret had been born in my constituency, we would be celebrating the fact that we had that great citizen as one of our local residents.
I can think of no other British politician whose legacy is as lasting or far-reaching as Margaret’s. There can be no doubt that her philosophy has influenced every aspect of our lives today. I have been a member of the Conservative party for 45 years and I would never have joined it all those years ago were it not for Margaret. I was a resident in the London borough of Newham, which contains the constituency that produced the first ever Labour Member of Parliament, Keir Hardie. I was
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sick to death of people reminiscing about how the good old days were and how to get out of poverty. I wanted someone to inspire me with a philosophy that would get me out of poverty if I followed it, and for me that person was Margaret Thatcher.
I missed our earlier debate here, but I did attend the ceremonial funeral. I thought that Margaret’s funeral was an absolute tribute to those who organised it and to this country. It was a privilege for me, and for so many of my colleagues who did not really know Margaret—they were not in the House when she was an MP—but were inspired in every way by the person she was.
When Margaret became the leader in 1979, Britain was, as we all know, the sick man of Europe—we were the Greece of our times, seeking aid from the International Monetary Fund. The rot was really setting in. Interest rates were staggeringly high, at nearly 14%, the impact of which we appreciate if we recall what they are today. Inflation was in double digits and the top rate of tax was 83%. The power was in the hands of the unions, which gave us the winter of discontent. The three-day week was fresh in the memory of many, the dead could not be buried and rubbish was not being collected. I was there, living during those times; I have not read it in a book—I experienced it. Evidently, all was not well and something had to change.
Baroness Thatcher did not, however, as many have claimed, break the post-war consensus; the post-war consensus had destroyed itself. It was the job of the then Mrs Thatcher to build a new Britain from the ashes. In the words of Lord Healey, of all people,
“the time had come for a shift from government to the market, as far as economic policy was concerned, and ending the rule of the trade unions in deciding policy.”
As I have said, I was privileged enough to have been elected, together with my hon. Friends the Members for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth) and for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr Evennett), in 1983. Indeed, it was from this very spot that I made my maiden speech on the community charge. I believe that people called it the “poll tax” then, but I never referred to it as such.
The House was absolutely packed and my speech followed that of Sir Ted Heath. Matthew Parris was on the Bench behind me and in your place, Mr Speaker, was the late Jack Weatherill. It was a fantastic occasion and I flatter myself that Margaret, as she sat on the Front Bench where my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) is sitting now, listened to my support for the policy.
Margaret Thatcher was absolutely inspirational. This is not a criticism, Mr Speaker, so please do not take offence, but I was thinking about the debate last week. In those days, the Chamber was full of giants. There were many experts and I was in awe of everyone, but 30 years on I am not in awe of anyone. I feel that this is now a Chamber of amateurs. I do not mean that in a nasty sense, but in a sense of the way we are now. One has to look to the other place for the real experts. We are all sent here, however articulate we are or not, as equals. As my voice was not heard last Thursday, I am very glad that my voice is being heard this evening in praise of Margaret Thatcher and her great legacy.
Margaret Thatcher understood that people had the opportunity to be upwardly mobile. The right to buy gave to millions. In my then constituency of Basildon,
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we had 30,000 houses in public ownership and it gave many people the chance to own their property for the first time. Share ownership trebled during Margaret’s decade. Historically, long-term financial gains are made in housing and equity investment, unlike cash savings, which are often gobbled up by inflation. As people were interested in business and the economy as newly empowered shareowners and mortgage bearers, strikes were naturally much less appealing and the power of the unions was broken.
Britain became a place to aspire to be and we were back in business. I remember that my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford was then a local councillor in Basildon. People began to work together to build growth and it is no coincidence that in the ’80s many successful start-ups were born, including Waterstones, Dairy Crest, Bloomsbury, Sky and Virgin Atlantic. I recall that my hon. Friends the Members for Aldershot and for Bexleyheath and Crayford and I received an invitation from the chairman of British Airways. Lord King grasped the great opportunity he was offered; he was another inspirational leader.
Of course, there is also the fundamental legacy of privatisation and economic policy. That policy was never reversed by successive Governments and has been copied all over the world. As late as 1977, the UK Government were still nationalising industry—aerospace and ship building—and Baroness Thatcher had to reverse the trend to resuscitate our country, which was then known as the sick man of Europe. More than 50 companies were put back into the hands of the people, including huge companies such as British Gas, British Telecom and British Airways. Not only was £50 billion raised for the Treasury, but competition was birthed and private shareholding grew. The consumer benefited, with gas prices falling by 25% in 1995 and telecom charges falling by 40%. The basic rate of tax fell from 33% in 1979 to 23% by the time Margaret left office. A strong pro-aspiration message was heard. Incredibly, 29 million working days were lost to strikes in 1979, whereas that figure was down to 2 million in 1990—an absolutely staggering decline.
Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con): My hon. Friend is paying a wonderful tribute to the salvation of the nation. Does he agree that the figures he has just given for the reduction in the number of strikes from 29 million days lost to 2 million days are evidence that far from being divisive, that magnificent woman was responsible for restoring to the members of trade unions power that had been seized by their leaders to use for political purposes?
Mr Amess: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I paid tribute to him when he was appointed as Margaret’s Parliamentary Private Secretary. If only he had been her Parliamentary Private Secretary a little earlier, she would never have lost by four votes, but that is probably rewriting history. I absolutely agree about how Margaret’s legacy has been completely misrepresented.
Contrary to left-wing opinion, Britain’s manufacturing production rose by 7.5% during Baroness Thatcher’s time as Prime Minister. In short, because of policies such as the right to buy, share ownership, privatisation,
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tax cuts and fewer days lost to strikes, Baroness Thatcher was able to bring Britain back from the brink and build a stronger economy.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I spoke to the hon. Gentleman beforehand, and he knows what I am going to say. Baroness Thatcher’s legacy is threefold for us in Northern Ireland. First, although we Unionists were not happy with the Belfast agreement, she recognised that in her memoirs and said so accordingly, and we appreciate and understand that. Secondly, she took on the hunger strikers and beat them, and broke the back of the IRA at that time as well. Thirdly, she said:
“Ulster is as British as Finchley.”
That is the legacy that we have in Northern Ireland—the United Kingdom is more unified than ever before, and Northern Ireland is an integral part of that as never before—and that is a legacy well worth holding on to.
Mr Amess: I have always regarded the hon. Gentleman as my hon. Friend. I thank him for making that point. The only upsetting thing that I can recall was one moment during Prime Minister’s Question Time when there was a very unfortunate exchange about Northern Ireland between Enoch Powell and Margaret. But that is all history now, and it is very good that the hon. Gentleman has paid tribute to Margaret’s legacy, as demonstrated in how Ireland is today.
We should not forget anything that Margaret did for education. We know the unfortunate slogan, but how many people realise that Margaret created more comprehensive schools than any Education Secretary before or after her? Some Members might say, “We don’t support that,” but I am simply saying that, again, she was misrepresented. As Prime Minister, she offered schools a chance to come out of direct council control—a policy that is successful and popular to this day. She implemented a core curriculum, with a national standard that every school had to attain. She focused the curriculum on the essentials: maths, English and the sciences. The current Secretary of State for Education certainly applauds Margaret’s policies. Parents were given more power in how schools were administered. The Government designed policies around serving children and parents. Her policy victories in this area and more widely are no small feat, but let us look now at some of her tangible legacies, because at the moment, these are just words.
Margaret Thatcher’s tangible legacies are found where I was born: the east end of London. She, through her dynamism, absolutely changed the docklands, which everyone enjoys now, and as we particularly did during last year’s Olympic games. The Daily Telegraph recently ran a story asking, “Will Canary Wharf be Baroness Thatcher’s greatest lasting legacy?” I know that it will be one of them. After designating the London docklands as an enterprise zone and offering tax breaks to local businesses, the then Prime Minister phoned Paul Reichmann to kick-start the project and persuaded him, as only she could, to take on the project. None of this could have happened without the lifting of exchange controls, which Baroness Thatcher did when she was first elected. Finance from abroad poured into London, and it became the most prominent city in the world. The regeneration of a huge area took place over the next few decades, and east London is now entirely unrecognisable from how it was
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my childhood. The docklands light railway was part of this legacy—a line that has assisted greatly in the quite stunning transformation of east London.
Margaret Thatcher was always described as being anti-Europe. For 100 years, people had talked about the channel tunnel, but did it happen? Absolutely not, but Margaret Thatcher was responsible for driving that grand infrastructure project. I was then Michael Portillo’s Parliamentary Private Secretary, and we walked together down the channel tunnel as it was being bored—absolutely extraordinary—and although we take it for granted today, it was entirely due to Margaret Thatcher. I well remember when she met then President Mitterrand halfway down the tunnel.
The previous project had been started in 1974 but it had to be abandoned because of the financial pressure that built up during the old, broken consensus. It took a more innovative approach and Mrs Thatcher asked private companies to tender for contracts in 1981. Just nine years later, the tunnel was built. It was part of her wider vision to build up Britain again and to revitalise our economy. Even the roots of Crossrail, which we can all see with our own eyes, can be found in Margaret’s time. As a former director of UK Contractors Group remembers, “she really pushed” Crossrail forward.
This project also gives us an insight into the outward-looking nature of Mrs Thatcher’s leadership. It was a leadership which did not just look to Britain’s shores, but looked to change the world. My goodness, what an international leader Baroness Thatcher was! She showed a remarkable aptitude for the international political stage. Unlike some leaders who are no longer in the House, she was far from being a warmonger. She used to do everything she possibly could to avoid war and broker peace. It was only when the Falklands were invaded that she had to defend those isles. I struggle to put it better than Niall Ferguson, who wrote:
“She was also mostly right about foreign policy. She was right to drive the forces of Argentina’s junta out of the Falklands and she was right to exhort a ‘wobbly’ George H. W. Bush to mete out the same treatment to Saddam Hussein’s forces in Kuwait. . . Like Ronald Reagan, she was quick to see the opportunity offered by”
“policies of glasnost and perestroika.”
Mrs Thatcher was right about Europe, supporting the idea of free and fair trade while opposing the idea of a unified currency. Europe was still divided between east and west when she was first elected and, as we know, it was the Soviet press that nicknamed her the “Iron Lady”. She was strong when necessary, but she was conciliatory too. When I had the privilege to meet Mikhail Gorbachev when he came to this place, he looked at me and said, “David, you are young to be a Member of Parliament.” I said to him, “Well, you’re very young to be the Soviet leader.” But what a different type of leader he was to some who have followed him. When Margaret, Ronald and Mikhail were working together, my goodness, they made a huge difference. It was as a result of Margaret’s policy that the Berlin wall was eventually taken down.
I was delighted to see that a council in Poland is trying to re-name a roundabout after Margaret, as roundabouts, as far as I am concerned, ensure that U-turns are redundant. Margaret is a hugely popular figure in Poland today. Her visit in 1988 is well remembered, establishing an alternative option for government in the
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minds of the Polish people. She had the presence to change a nation’s mind in one visit. I am not surprised that President Reagan was in awe of this remarkable woman. Not content with defeating socialism at home—although sadly, as a result of that, she gave us Tony Blair—together with President Reagan she vanquished the forces of communism across Europe, and there are many millions of people who rightly revere her name for bringing about freedom, democracy and commercial opportunity in eastern Europe.
I suppose that one of the only things I will ever be remembered for is the 1992 election, although for me privately, when I won the first time in 1983, that was my greatest moment. I was under the cosh, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford will attest, as he ran the campaign team in his remarkable way. Every single journalist, not only local and national but international, descended on Basildon because they had been told by my enemies that Barclays bank tellers were to be brought in to do the count, it would be done within an hour, and they would see live on TV the first Conservative to lose their seat.
Who came to my rescue? Margaret Thatcher. Just three days before the general election she arrived, as always, magnificently dressed in blue, and she was given a heroine’s welcome.
I owe her everything, and that was particularly true in 1992.
I will not dwell on what happened when she stood down as Prime Minister; I think it is best to draw a line under that. I will just say to my Conservative colleagues in the Chamber that we should never air our dirty linen in public. The greatest leader I have even known should certainly have been treated differently. Considering that I represented a highly marginal seat, I had nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I want to allow time for my hon. Friend the Minister, whose father, Lord Hurd of Westwell, was of course Margaret’s Foreign Secretary at the end, so I will bring my remarks to a close. I can find no finer words than my own, in “Margaret Thatcher: A Tribute in Words and Pictures”, compiled by Iain Dale. Apparently, I said:
“Margaret Thatcher was the consummate politician. She had those unique qualities of charisma, enormous courage and determination. She was blessed with first-class skills of leadership and undoubtedly not only changed this country but the world for the better.”
Margaret Thatcher was a remarkable Prime Minister and an inspiration to any young women today, proving that women can do not only an equal job to us men, but—this is certainly the experience in my household—a far superior job. It is difficult to believe that the same Prime Minister who revitalised east London, the place where I grew up, successfully restructured the whole economy, dragging Britain away from the danger zone, leaving the physical marks of her success in, for instance, the Eurostar and the London docklands.
Margaret loved this country and loved the place in which we now work. She believed in the supremacy of Parliament, as I do and as you certainly do, Mr Speaker—may the army of unelected decision-makers take note. She stood up for Britain in Europe and liberated the Falkland Islands from the Argentine invaders. She stood up for freedom and democracy against the tyranny of communism. She defeated socialism. She believed that Government should create the conditions under which
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every human being should be given the opportunity to make the most of their lives. She made this country and our world better places in which to live. She is certainly the greatest politician I have ever met, and I am just so blessed to have worked in Parliament under her leadership. The memory of this remarkable lady will last for ever.
8.7 pm
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd): I feel a lot better, having listened to that speech. My hon. Friend the Member for Southend West (Mr Amess) is a distinguished Member of the House, and I see that he is wearing his 1983 tie with pride, as he should. I am delighted that he has had the opportunity to place on the record, with the passion and conviction for which he is known, his great and persistent admiration for and loyalty to Margaret Thatcher. I am also delighted that he has been so well supported by colleagues and friends, not least his two fellow ’83ers, my hon. Friends the Members for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth) and for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Mr Evennett).
It would be hard to disagree with a single syllable of what my hon. Friend said, particularly when he talked about what Margaret Thatcher did to reverse the tide of defeatism in this country and unleash aspiration. He spoke movingly about how she inspired him. Well, she inspired so many others. I know that he struggled to find a quote to encapsulate her greatness that matched the one he provided to Iain Dale, but I will humbly suggest some others. The leader of the free world, the current President of the United States, said:
“She stands as an example to our daughters that there is no glass ceiling that can’t be shattered.”
“As prime minister, she helped restore the confidence and pride that has always been the hallmark of Britain at its best.”
Our own Prime Minister put it well when he said:
“Her legacy will be the fact that she served her country so well and that she saved our country, and that she showed immense courage in doing so”.
The Leader of the Opposition deserves credit for saying:
“She will be remembered as a unique figure. She reshaped the politics of a whole generation.”
My hon. Friend was entirely right in talking about her legacy. We are all painfully aware as politicians that very few of us who pass through this place leave any traces that stand the test of time. His central point was
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that the legacy she leaves is as lasting and far-reaching as anyone’s, and I totally agree. I think that the only point of comparison is with Winston Churchill.
Like my hon. Friend, I was very proud to be at St Paul’s with other colleagues to represent our constituents. I was there with my father, who, as my hon. Friend kindly mentioned, served Margaret Thatcher for such a long time. It did feel like the passing of an era. Much has been said, and was said there, about her strength and resolve. Personally, I was very pleased that in all the tributes so much was said about her personal kindness and courtesy, alongside the Boadicea-style tributes. It was hard not to be moved by the concern that she showed for the families of British soldiers, not least those who died in the Falklands. My father still speaks of his admiration for the way in which she handled herself in the incredibly difficult situation after the Hillsborough tragedy, walking round the hospital with him and talking to families as they stood round the bedsides of young lads from Liverpool, many of whom were to go on to die. He said that she was absolutely magnificent. In a situation that he found personally very awkward, she did not find it so; she knew exactly what to do.
I was pleased that in his admirable address the Bishop of London nailed a few of the myths, not least one that I feel very strongly about, which is the myth around the misquotation of
“there’s no such thing as society.”
Of course, she later went on say: “My meaning” was
“clear at the time but subsequently distorted beyond recognition”.
What she meant to say, and did say,
“was that society was not an abstraction, separate from the men and women who composed it, but a living structure of individuals, families, neighbours and voluntary associations.”
I am proud to be part of a Government who are trying to reassert the value of social responsibility about which she felt so strongly, alongside everything else that we are doing. I see those as very Conservative actions and values to get this country back to living within its means, making work pay, and supporting the wealth creators and job creators. I sincerely hope that one of the greatest leaders this country has ever seen—I agree with my hon. Friend’s description—would approve.