16 Oct 2013 : Column 842
My right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) tried to amend the Localism Bill to tackle the problem of betting shops, and he made the case for that again today, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), who reminded us that, as so often with this Government, the rhetoric does not match the reality on localism and giving councils the real powers they need to address this problem.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) gave an example from her area of the detrimental impact the Government’s change of use policy is already having, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) talked about the problem in our high streets. She said the two wards that cover the high street in her constituency are in the top 10% most deprived in the country. She says betting shops, pawn shops and payday loan companies are preying on some of the most vulnerable people, and she made a very strong case that the planning laws need strengthening, not weakening. That was echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop), who also talked about the importance of the proposal to cut business rates, a point my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition has made.
Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): On tackling payday loans, does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is crucial to recognise one significant step taken by this Government, which is to allow credit unions to lend money without their members first having to make a deposit? Does he agree that credit unions are the way forward, through attracting the people who are most vulnerable to borrow responsibly?
Andy Sawford: I am pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman agree that action needs to be taken to address the problem of payday loan companies on our high streets, but I have to say that the response so far from his Front-Bench colleagues has been far too weak. I hope we will have his support in trying to improve the protections available for constituents around the country.
My hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) spoke passionately about his town centre, telling us how the campaign to save the Denton post office was his political awakening. He spoke with knowledge and pride about the many great initiatives in his town, points that I wish to echo in respect of what is happening in the five towns across my constituency. All the local authorities, including the town and parish councils, which play a particularly important role in our smaller town centres, are trying very hard to protect them.
Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Andy Sawford: I have very little time, so I am going to continue my speech.
My hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) is making a very personal contribution to the success of his high street, and I am sure that all hon. Members will want to wish Mrs Danczuk well with the opening of Danczuk’s Delicatessen. He powerfully highlighted the impact of the living standards crisis on our high streets, saying, rightly, that there is a relationship
16 Oct 2013 : Column 843
between security of employment and issues such as zero-hours exploitation, and people’s ability to spend on the high street.
My hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah Champion) opened her speech by offering condolences to the family of her constituent Mr Iqbal, who was tragically murdered. May I associate all Opposition Members and, indeed, the whole House, with the condolences that she has sent to his family? She makes a powerful point that we ought to have a concern for the safety of people who work in retail.
The Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), opened his speech by telling us about the Government’s various initiatives. He told us that over the past two years they have established the Portas pilots, the town team partners, the future high streets forum—there was no end to the initiatives. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham said, it is a fragmented and piecemeal approach that has failed to deliver the real change we need in the health and well-being of our high streets and town centres. Well-intentioned though I am sure some of the initiatives are, the truth is that the Government’s approach is a dog’s breakfast and it has had no significant impact. The Government’s own progress report in July highlights that; it is so scant on the details of what has been improved.
The Portas pilots have been very slow to pull down the money allocated to them and by June only 12% of the £2.3 million Portas pilot budget allocated had been spent. Mary Portas has said, and I was there at the Select Committee:
“I’m not seeing that happening and it’s getting very frustrating. The Government’s response to my proposals has been tepid. I feel exhausted by it…I feel thoroughly and utterly deflated.”
Sadly, listening to the Under-Secretary I share that feeling. Rather than address the concerns raised by Mary Portas, the Government have now introduced policies that look set to worsen the situation. Such policies include the changes to the planning rules announced in May and August, which strip communities of a say over their high streets. The important difference that the changes will make is that they will allow payday lenders and betting shops, which have always been able to open up in banks and building societies, to take over other shops as well. The Government are also allowing offices, shops and services such as banks and building societies to be turned into flats and houses without any proper strategy. That is the opposite of what our high streets need and it is the opposite of what people want to see.
Andy Sawford: I have very little time left.
Labour will therefore give councils new powers, so that in areas where there is a problem councillors could put payday lenders and other problem uses into a new umbrella class. We will encourage local authorities to plan for and allow flexibility on the high street in a way that suits the community they represent, such as through permitted development rights. We will take action to promote retail diversity and, vitally, we will cut business rates. If Labour wins power in 2015, we will use the money that this Government would use to cut taxes for
16 Oct 2013 : Column 844
80,000 of our largest businesses to cut business rates for 1.5 million businesses across our country. That proposal has been welcomed by organisations such as the Federation of Small Businesses. I believe it has the power to make a huge difference. It will save those businesses £450 a year, which will be much needed; it will be a real lifeline.
May I end by welcoming the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams), to his role? I very much hope to see him in the Lobby supporting our motion, because I understand that the Liberal Democrat conference supported it, too. It is Liberal Democrat policy, but I wonder whether it will be another example, like the mansion tax or the Robin Hood financial transaction tax, where we have given the Liberal Democrats the opportunity in this House to vote for their own policy and they have found some weasel words to get out of it and troop through the Lobby with the Tories. The action that we need for our town centres is set out in our motion, and I urge him to see sense and support it.
6.49 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Stephen Williams): The hon. Member for Corby (Andy Sawford) and I are both newbies in our roles, so I welcome him to his role. I will decline his blandishments, which have been offered to me on many occasions by an Opposition spokesman, seductive as they may be in part. That is often the way with Opposition motions, and I have spoken on many of them over the past three and a half years. Although there are some good things in what the motion says and I agree with some of it, there are obviously areas where we cannot agree.
There have been 13 Back-Bench speeches. It is the second time in the past two years or so that the House has had the opportunity to debate high streets. I spoke in a Back-Bench debate on the high street called by my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr Jones) in January 2012. On that occasion 50 Back Benchers spoke in the debate so we know that there is huge interest in the issue across the House. However, given that this was an Opposition-day motion, there are rather more Labour Members in the Chamber as we are coming up to the vote than there have been throughout the entire debate. Considering that it was their own motion, it is disappointing that more Labour MPs chose not to take part.
It is a particular pleasure on my first outing at the Dispatch Box to be speaking about high streets. If I may be parochial for a moment, my constituency, Bristol West, has the greatest high street in England running right through the middle of it—the Gloucester road, the longest stretch of independent businesses in the country. At the west of my constituency there is Clifton village, full of independent shops and boutiques, and in the east of my constituency is Stapleton road. Rather as the right hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Dame Joan Ruddock) said of her constituency, Stapleton road in my constituency is in one of the 10% most deprived census enumeration districts in England, but it is a thriving high street and I pay tribute to all my constituents there, particularly the new arrivals from Somalia in recent years, who have opened small businesses in that street.
16 Oct 2013 : Column 845
We do not have in that high street the problems of betting shops that the right hon. Lady mentioned. She was the first of many speakers who mentioned that problem, to which the Opposition motion refers. The general point that was made was that nothing can be done about it. To all those who made that point, I say there is something that can be done. There is something in existing planning legislation that they could use; it is called an article 4 directive. I suggest that all the hon. Members who said they feel that their local area is not doing enough to stem the tide, as they see it, of betting shops moving into their high streets should speak to their local councillors and local council officers and ask why an article 4 directive has not been issued. Many of the other considerations relating to betting shops fall under the licensing regime, not the planning system, which is primarily to do with the rationing of space.
Bill Esterson: Will the Minister tell the House whether he thinks a cut in business rates will help his high streets, and if he does, will he vote for our motion tonight?
Stephen Williams: The Government are doing much on business rates. We have delayed the revaluation until 2015. Also, as was announced in the Budget this year, we are giving every business in the country a £2,000 national insurance credit. That will be of huge value to many small businesses throughout the country, some of which will no longer be paying employers’ national insurance at all, and many of them will be retailers. That £2,000 may compensate significantly for the high cost of business rates, which we certainly acknowledge is a problem. Many small businesses say that uniform business rate is a problem for them.
Simon Hughes: I warmly welcome the appointment of my hon. Friend, who will do an excellent job as Minister. I put it to his colleague earlier that, on one aspect of the debate, our party decided this year that we wanted a change in the law to allow a separate use class for gambling establishments. I hope that he will not forget that policy in government, and I hope he will show how good a Minister he is by persuading his colleagues before the end of this Parliament to change the law accordingly.
Stephen Williams: My right hon. Friend is always a delight and always very helpful. I am sure that that will be a hot topic for discussion at ministerial team meetings over the next 12 months.
On the point about business rates, councils already have discretion to give a reduction, and the Government fund that on a 50:50 basis. Many hon. Members talked about the effect of business rates on their communities and about the revaluation. The hon. Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley)—I commiserate with him on today’s result—made some points about valuation. Actually, out-of-town businesses are valued on the same basis as town and city centre businesses, and it is on the rental valuation. Although the valuation is based on 2008, in 2010 this Government reduced the percentage applied to the valuation, so the truth is that since 1990 there has been no real-terms rise in business rates.
Mr Binley: Will the Minister give way?
Stephen Williams: I will give way one last time.
16 Oct 2013 : Column 846
Mr Binley: The Minister is very kind. Does he not recognise, however, that the car parks of out-of-town developments are not rated?
Stephen Williams: As a city centre MP, I know that there is certainly concern about the disparity between charges for town and city centre parking and for out-of-town parking, which is often free. I think that ought to be kept under review.
Stephen Williams: I have now given way three times, unlike the hon. Member for Corby, so I will continue with my speech.
We heard from several members of the Communities and Local Government Committee—I am sure that I will be appearing before it soon—including the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk). I certainly agree with many of the good points he made. We want diversity on the high street. None of us wants to see clone towns with chain stores and too many charity shops, bars, estate agents and so on. However, he rather shot himself in the foot when he said that the big problem is the flatlining economy. We have heard a lot from Opposition Front Benchers about the flatlining economy, but it turns out not to be true, because there was no double-dip recession and the economy is growing. We know that there is much more to do, but the country is certainly on track and the economy is returning to health.
The hon. Member for Rochdale, among many other Members, also mentioned the Grimsey review, which was intended as an alternative to the Portas review, or to complement it. I attended the launch of Bill Grimsey’s review downstairs in the Churchill Room and think that he made many interesting points. One that particularly chimed with me was the suggestion that the high street should do much more to make technology available, particularly wi-fi. I am now quite militant about asking high street businesses whether wi-fi is available. He makes a very good point.
We also heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Southport (John Pugh) and for Rugby (Mark Pawsey), both of whom are members of the Select Committee. My hon. Friend the Member for Rugby mentioned that it was also important to have people living in town centres. During the debate it seemed that many Members thought that people living in town and city centres was something of a problem. As someone who not only is an MP for a city centre, but was the councillor for Bristol city centre 20 years ago, I think that it is marvellous that more people want to live in town and city centres. We are reversing the urban flight to the suburbs that took place over a long period. Town and city centre vitality depends on a cross-section of the population living in those communities, spending money in the shops, working in the shops and perhaps being able to walk to work. I find it quite puzzling that many hon. Members seemed to think that it was a problem that the changes we are making will enable more people to live in town and city centres.
In the minute remaining I will mention some of the initiatives that the Government are undertaking. I think that some hon. Members were quite churlish about the Portas review. Mary Portas is a business woman who
16 Oct 2013 : Column 847
gave up her time for the Government. She came up with many sensible recommendations, 27 of which the Government have accepted. I went to her consultation on the Upper Committee Corridor, which was packed with MPs who wanted to support what she was doing—
Ms Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central) (Lab) claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).
Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.
Main Question accordingly put.
The House proceeded to a Division.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.
The House having divided:
Ayes 224, Noes 294.
Division No. 102]
[
6.59 pm
AYES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Campbell, Mr Ronnie
Caton, Martin
Champion, Sarah
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Wayne
Davies, Geraint
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Heyes, David
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Ian
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonald, Andy
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Lucy
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Ayes:
Susan Elan Jones
and
Julie Hilling
NOES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Binley, Mr Brian
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, rh Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Chishti, Rehman
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Graham, Richard
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Harvey, Sir Nick
Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huppert, Dr Julian
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Leech, Mr John
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
Maude, rh Mr Francis
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Paice, rh Sir James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, Mr Keith
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thornton, Mike
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Noes:
Claire Perry
and
Mark Hunter
Question accordingly negatived.
16 Oct 2013 : Column 848
16 Oct 2013 : Column 849
16 Oct 2013 : Column 850
16 Oct 2013 : Column 851
Business without Debate
DEFERRED DIVISIONS
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 41A(3)),
That, at this day’s sitting, Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply to the Motion relating to Civil Aviation Safety.—(John Penrose.)
European Union Documents
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 119(11)),
Civil Aviation Safety
That this House takes note of European Union Document No. 12864/13, a draft Commission Regulation (EU) No. .../… of XXX amending Regulation (EU) No. 965/2012 laying down technical requirements and administrative procedures related to air operations pursuant to Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008 of the European Parliament and of the Council; notes that the Government recognises the importance of managing crew fatigue to support civil aviation safety; supports the Government’s view that the measures will establish safety improvements across the European Union and maintain safety in the UK; and further supports the Government’s view that the measures respect subsidiarity principles and help to deliver a level playing field across the EU.—(John Penrose.)
The House divided:
Ayes 272, Noes 227.
Division No. 103]
[
7.15 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Beith, rh Sir Alan
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bradley, Karen
Brake, rh Tom
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, rh Paul
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Carmichael, Neil
Chishti, Rehman
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crabb, Stephen
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davis, rh Mr David
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Evans, Graham
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, rh Michael
Featherstone, Lynne
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Fox, rh Dr Liam
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Sir Edward
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Graham, Richard
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Halfon, Robert
Hames, Duncan
Hammond, Stephen
Hands, Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Harvey, Sir Nick
Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Hemming, John
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollingbery, George
Holloway, Mr Adam
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Huppert, Dr Julian
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kirby, Simon
Knight, rh Mr Greg
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lancaster, Mark
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Jessica
Lee, Dr Phillip
Leech, Mr John
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lloyd, Stephen
Lopresti, Jack
Lord, Jonathan
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Maude, rh Mr Francis
Maynard, Paul
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Paice, rh Sir James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, Mike
Penrose, John
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simpson, Mr Keith
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Spencer, Mr Mark
Stanley, rh Sir John
Stephenson, Andrew
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swales, Ian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Swinson, Jo
Swire, rh Mr Hugo
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thornton, Mike
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vara, Mr Shailesh
Vickers, Martin
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Wallace, Mr Ben
Walter, Mr Robert
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Webb, Steve
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Wiggin, Bill
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Young, rh Sir George
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mark Hunter
and
Gavin Barwell
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Ashworth, Jonathan
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Barron, rh Mr Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, Mr Alan
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Caton, Martin
Champion, Sarah
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Crausby, Mr David
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Curran, Margaret
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
Darling, rh Mr Alistair
David, Wayne
Davies, Geraint
Davies, Philip
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, rh Frank
Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M.
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Godsiff, Mr Roger
Goggins, rh Paul
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Gwynne, Andrew
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Heyes, David
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lammy, rh Mr David
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Long, Naomi
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McCartney, Jason
McDonald, Andy
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miliband, rh Edward
Miller, Andrew
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Percy, Andrew
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Lucy
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Riordan, Mrs Linda
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Mr Frank
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Sheridan, Jim
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, rh Mr Andrew
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Straw, rh Mr Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Thornberry, Emily
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Susan Elan Jones
and
Julie Hilling
Question accordingly agreed to.
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16 Oct 2013 : Column 853
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Delegated Legislation
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),
National Health Service
That the draft National Health Service (Licence Exemptions, etc.) Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on 4 July, be approved.—(John Penrose.)
Petition
Probation Service (Privatisation)
7.27 pm
Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab):
The petitioners urge the Government, and in particular the Ministry of Justice, to think again about their proposals for the privatisation of the probation service.
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Megan Elliott, of the National Association of Probation Officers, and her colleagues have collected a petition of 2,138 signatures from the catchment area of the Northumbria Probation Trust. It is not surprising that feeling about this issue is strong in the north-east of England—the Northumbria Probation Trust received an exceptional rating in 2012-13. Indeed, the wider probation service received the British Quality Foundation gold medal for excellence in 2011.
The petitioners firmly oppose the Government’s plan to privatise up to 70% of probation service work. They defend a publicly accountable probation service in the public sector. They oppose the Government’s plan to abolish the 35 separate probation trusts and oppose contracting out through a competitive process that excludes the probation service but includes 70% of their current work. At the heart of the petitioners’ objection is the risk to the public that the Government’s proposals so obviously pose. It offends against common sense to proceed with these untested ideas without, at the very least, piloting them first and learning the lessons of the pilot. I side with the petitioners and believe we should heed their warning.
The Petition of residents of the UK,
Declares that the Petitioners oppose the Government’s plan to abolish the Probation Service in its current form and to privatise up to 70% of work currently undertaken by it. The Petitioners believe that those convicted by a Criminal Court should be supervised by those employed by a publicly accountable Probation Service such as currently exists; further that the Petitioners oppose the Government’s plan to abolish the 35 public sector Probation Trusts replacing them with one Probation Service that only supervises those deemed to be of a high risk of harm to the public. It is envisaged under the current plan, 70% of probation’s work will be subject to a competitive process which excludes the Probation Service. We believe that such a plan is “high risk” in that it could place the public at a greater risk of harm.
The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urge the Government to stop the planned changes to the Probation Service.
And the Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.
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Ansford Railway Bridge
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(John Penrose.)
7.29 pm
Mr David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity to do something that, as a former Minister, I have been unable to do for the past three and a half years, which is to raise an issue in the House, on behalf of my constituents, in an area that was not my responsibility as a Minister.
There is a considerable groundswell of opinion in my constituency about the closure of a railway bridge in Ansford, very close to Castle Cary railway station, closing the A371, which runs through my constituency. The reasons for the disquiet are the length of the operation that Network Rail is effecting, the consequences for the local economy, the inconvenience to local people and the fact that those could have been mitigated with a bit more care on the part of the railway company. Having said that, I think we all understand the reasons for the bridge closure. It is an essential maintenance requirement; it is not in anyone’s interest that we have bridges over railways that fall apart and cause trouble. We all realise that occasionally significant works have to be done.
The closure of the A371 was originally mooted as a 24-week closure beginning in September 2012. I intervened, mainly because I felt that the notice given to local businesses and people was entirely inadequate, that no consultation had taken place—to anybody’s knowledge—and that it was simply inappropriate, in effect, to close down the town of Castle Cary over the Christmas period, with all the consequences that that would have had. To give credit to Network Rail, however, after those complaints, it recognised that there was a problem. It attended a meeting held in the area and listened to local people’s concerns, and it went away, determined to postpone the work and undertook to see how the works could be done in the shortest time and with the least effect on the local area. It then came back with a project to start in July this year, which it did, and to end, we hope, in mid-November—a 19-week period.
Let me be clear, however: 19 weeks is a very long time for a major road to be closed. It would cause enough disruption in a metropolitan area, but of course there would be alternatives. In rural Somerset, there are no easy alternatives, and the diversions are considerable. For light cars, it is 17 miles; for heavy goods vehicles, it is 32 miles, which represents a significant extra cost for companies whose main business is either freight or the delivery of products elsewhere in the country. South Somerset district council has estimated the consequences for the eight largest companies in the immediate vicinity of the road closure. Its reasonable estimate is that the additional cost for those companies alone is in excess of £1 million and that it will cost smaller businesses at least another £1 million. All that is without reference to the inconvenience and disruption to individuals. It might mean an extra 12 miles on the way to school or to work in the morning or added inconvenience for those rushing to catch a train at Castle Cary, one of the few viable train stations in my constituency providing a service to London. It is now difficult to get to it from one direction at least, which causes great difficulty.
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If we were talking about a council—or, I would like to think, a Department—every effort would be made, as far as possible, to fit things in with local needs. Public accountability suggests that the organisation involved would be desperately trying to reduce the economic and social effects to a minimum, but Network Rail is of course not publicly accountable in that way, other than through the Department for Transport. Indeed, I am afraid to say that there appears to be no evidence that it believes it has any wider responsibility, other than to minimise its costs and do whatever is most convenient to itself. That is why local people are so upset.
I am glad to see the Minister here this evening, but I know that he cannot provide me with an enormous amount of comfort, nor do I expect him to—I know that because at the start of this work I was in correspondence with the then rail Minister. I know, too, that the Secretary of State for Transport has had discussions on this very subject with Mr Richard Fry of Frampton’s—a constituent of my hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) and a representative of a freight company that is one of those most affected—yet all to no avail. In fact, if the Minister has been given the same brief as his predecessors—who is to know whether his civil servants have rewritten it?—he might employ the following sentences: “Network Rail is a private sector company limited by guarantee. The scope and duration of its engineering works are operational matters for the company in which Ministers have no powers to intervene.” If he finds that in his notes, I hope he will omit it and take it as read, because I know that that is the case. However, it in no way alters my contention that proper pressure should be applied on public bodies such as Network Rail.
My reason for securing this debate is to say that that answer and its consequences are simply not good enough, and things could be arranged better. Let me cover some of the things that might have been considered. One of the clear views expressed by my constituents is that, given such an enormously disruptive road closure, then ’twere best it were done as quickly as possible—that the minimum amount of time should be taken. That would involve working rather more than the minimum periods available, in order to get the job done. We discussed with Network Rail the possibility of night working—indeed, conditions could not have been better for evening or night work over the last few months—but that has not been forthcoming. We could have had weekend working, but no work has been done at weekends. We could also have had arrangements to provide for temporary daytime access or, if that were not possible, night-time access when no work was being done, but that was inconvenient and was not done either.
I know that with every major civil construction project people will say, “Nobody ever seems to be working on it.” Sometimes work is done that people are not aware of and sometimes a refractory period is necessary while concrete sets, for example. I understand that, but I assure the Minister that no one in the local area discerns any sense of urgency with this work. There is no sense that people are trying to get it done in the minimum amount of time. Indeed, they are simply dawdling their way through the project, with all the effects that that has.
Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD):
I agree with my hon. Friend wholeheartedly. I have written to the Minister about this matter, because a huge number of my constituents
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have been inconvenienced. I have also written to the company concerned, but at no point has it agreed to do anything like consider double working, triple-shift working or anything else that might avail the local community or Frampton’s, which my hon. Friend has already mentioned, and the other transport companies. Does he agree that that is the least that the company could have considered?
Mr Heath: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I know that her constituents are feeling exactly the same pressures as mine are. This is not just a problem of unwillingness to think about the situation. It seems impossible for anyone—the Minister or anyone else—to apply pressure on Network Rail to make it acknowledge its responsibility to the local community. Closing a road has consequences, and it must be done for the minimum amount of time.
Network Rail could also have looked at alternative ways of undertaking the project. Such alternatives were offered, but they were rejected. It was suggested, for example, that temporary alternative bridge work might be put in place, but Network Rail was not prepared to consider that, on the ground of cost. Instead of repairing the bridge, it might have considered replacing it with a prefabricated alternative, which would have avoided the long delays altogether. Again, that was not considered. I understand that the Army offered to build a Bailey bridge as a temporary replacement. It offered to do it for free, as it would have found it a useful exercise; Network Rail would not have had to pay for anything except the pier supports. Again, the offer was rejected.
There are other things that Network Rail could have done to make life easier for local people. I mentioned that people are having difficulty getting to the railway station from Castle Cary, two miles away, simply because the link between the two is closed. However, they could have reached it if car parking had been provided on the right side of the closure, because people could have decamped by footpath from there to the station. That car parking was offered. Indeed, I understand that Michael Eavis, who runs the Glastonbury festival, offered to provide free use of the metal surfacing that he uses in his festival car park, to create hard standing in a field on the right side of the road closure, which would have helped local people. Again, that offer was not entertained by Network Rail. Apparently it is not even interested in getting people to use the railway if it is going to cost money.
Even the things that Network Rail did undertake to do have not been done satisfactorily. It said that it would provide full signage to show that the affected businesses were open, but the signage was still not in place long after the closure had been effected, and the businesses lost money. The signage that was eventually put up misled people. The situation on the ground is quite complicated, and I do not expect the Minister to understand it, as he is not a Somerset man. However, there is a road called the B3153, which goes from Castle Cary across a railway bridge that everyone assumes is closed, even though it is not, to places in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wells. The signs simply say that the railway bridge is closed, and everyone assumes that they refer to that railway bridge. Businesses have lost revenue as a result. The advertisements that were supposed to be in all the local newspapers and on
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local radio never quite transpired in the way that was suggested. Whenever anyone mentions compensation, people get very tight-lipped indeed. There is no suggestion that anyone will be compensated for these problems.
As I have said, the consequence of all this is that the estimated cost to the major employers in the area is about £1 million. In our terms, these are big local employers. They supply dairy products, veterinary supplies and pet foods. The cost to the largest one alone will be £350,000, because of extra fuel burn, the need for dual-crewing in order to meet the working time directive, and extra wages costs. These costs all add up. There will also be extra costs for the council as a result of damage to the highway network because, sadly, heavy goods vehicles are using inappropriate roads.
I do not believe that any of this was necessary. Network Rail could have done a better job for local people. I say that because an example from elsewhere has been brought to my attention. Work was recently done by Network Rail in Lewisham. I have no doubt that it involved important track work, and it cost £9.5 million. That includes £2.5 million to ensure the safety and protection of a wildlife area. I think it is good—no one should get me wrong on this—that money is being spent to protect such an area, but I would have liked that money to be invested not just because of Network Rail’s fear that wildlife protection groups would be on its back; I would have liked it to consider Somerset people as well—people who are losing their jobs and their livelihoods in local businesses as a result of what Network Rail proposed. I think £2.5 million would have paid for all that shopping list of mitigating factors.
This provides an object lesson in how not to take into account the needs of the local economy and the interests of local residents. I ask the Minister to consider this issue. If it were not a road that was closed, but a railway line, do we honestly believe that Network Rail would not have worked absolutely round the clock to get the line opened again—because its revenue would be affected? Do we not believe that Network Rail would have used every possible measure to maintain some traffic along the line, whether it be in one direction or the other, in a way that has not happened in the case of this road? In those circumstances, it would not have been 19 weeks; it would certainly not have been a five-day-a-week, 9-to-5 job.
Network Rail has done itself no favours whatever in community relations. I have to say that this is not the fault of the local community relations managers, who have been doing their level best to be as helpful as they can be within the constraints set by head office. The overall policy of Network Rail here, however, shows absolutely no regard for local interests. That is what concerns me—the attitude displayed by Network Rail. If anyone wants an indication of that, let me say that I wrote to the chief executive on 5 September, asking about the progress made on the scheme, asking when it could be expected to finish and asking when we could expect to see some of the accelerated work that had been promised. I received an acknowledgement on 11 September; I am still waiting for a substantive reply. I think that tells us everything you need to know, Mr Deputy Speaker. I hope that the Minister will be able to tell me that Network Rail is not completely oblivious—or will be made not to be completely oblivious—of the interests of the local communities that, as a public company, it is supposed to serve.
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7.47 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Stephen Hammond): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath) on securing tonight’s Adjournment debate. The closure of the A371 is clearly a subject of great importance to him—and to his hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Tessa Munt)—and he spoke eloquently about it. I noted in his opening remarks that he thought Network Rail had been rather slow in its response, so I hope to be a bit faster this evening. I noted, too, that he was not sure whether I could say much from the Dispatch Box tonight to indicate that actions were on the way. I have, however, picked up some things from his speech on which I hope to able to give him some reassurance.
My hon. Friend referred to his main concerns on behalf of his constituents and to those of the leader of South Somerset district council seen in an exchange of correspondence earlier this year with the then rail Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker). As I think my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome knows, that Minister and my officials have already raised concerns with Network Rail, particularly about the possibilities of single-lane operation or putting a temporary bridge in place. I hope to address a couple of those points tonight, and I shall certainly take note of my hon. Friend’s last remark—that he has failed to receive a reply from the chief executive of Network Rail since 5 September. By any standard, that is not acceptable behaviour, and I shall certainly ensure that my officials speak to Network Rail tomorrow morning to get that response for him.
I listened to my hon. Friend set out the issues. As he rightly says, I am not a Somerset man, so my understanding of them is clearly not as great as his. None the less, we all accept that the road is an important one for the local community. The location between Castle Cary station and the B3153 has an impact, as it falls under the responsibility of Somerset county council as the highways authority. Following routine inspections by Network Rail, there was widespread agreement that major repair and strengthening to the bridge was necessary; otherwise, the modern traffic loads that use the route would be unable to do so, and there would be no certainty of the continuing safety on the railway.
It is disappointing, however, that the repair and strengthening work for the overbridge, as my hon. Friend said, started on 8 July and is expected to run until the end of November. That is partly to do with the extra works that Network Rail is putting in place. I am not sure that the full benefit of those extra works has necessarily been explained, perhaps because they will benefit the company in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Wells. It is normal practice for Network Rail to prepare bridges of local authority roads to the statutory requirement to be able to carry 24 tonnes. That is covered by a national programme of assessment known as Bridgeguard 3. To implement that, there is a national cost sharing agreement with local authorities. There is no obligation on Network Rail to bring the strength of its bridges carrying roads up to the standard to carry modern freight. It is generally accepted that the load-bearing capacity to accommodate modern highway standards is 40 tonnes. Certainly, one reason for the delay and elongated works, which I accept has caused the suffering experienced by my hon.
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Friend’s constituents, is the increase in the strength of the bridge to 40 tonnes, which will allow greater facilitation of the local economy. That is taking longer than expected.
My hon. Friend also asked why it was not possible to consider doing the construction work in two halves. Had that been possible, it would have been done, but had that happened, the scaffolding required to access the outside of the bridge girders would have had to be mounted on the bridge deck, which would have made it impossible for the railway service underneath to continue. That is why the work could not be undertaken in two halves.
Tessa Munt: Surely if the flipping Army can build something in 24 hours, something could be created. If motorway bridges can be prefabricated, formed off site and rolled into place, and it takes 12 hours, why cannot something have been done in this case?
Stephen Hammond: I am coming to the construction of a temporary bailey bridge. I know my hon. Friend listened carefully to my remarks about strengthening the bridge to the level of 40 tonnes, and that is one reason for the delay. None the less, I am not trying to excuse the fact that the work will take 19 weeks. I understand the impact on local constituents, and my hon. Friends can be assured that this will be one of the issues that I will raise when I next meet Network Rail in my new role, as I expect to do in the near future.
Some issues were raised about why certain things may or may not have been possible. Consideration was given to whether a temporary bailey bridge could be installed while the main bridge was closed. I understand that the cost of the installation of the bailey bridge might have been greater than the cost of the refurbishment project itself. I must confess that what my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome said about the offer to build it at no cost was news to me.
Mr Heath: I hope that I did not mislead the Minister. I understand that the Army was prepared to build the bridge at no cost, but I accept that the building of the piering would have imposed a considerable cost on Network Rail. What I simply do not understand is why, given the disruption that is being caused, Network Rail is not working round the clock to complete the work as quickly as possible.
Stephen Hammond: I shall deal with that point in a moment. However, I am glad that there is agreement between us that the possibility of a bailey bridge was considered, although it was ruled out on the basis that it was not cost-effective.
I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me if I skip the history of Network Rail, and simply tell him that it is a private company and there is no ministerial responsibility for its operation. Ministers are, however, able to speak to representatives of the company, and, as I have said, I will speak to them about his letter.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for acknowledging the work being done through local consultation, and the fact that Network Rail listened to consultation at a time when some of the proposals were even less acceptable than they are now. He also acknowledged that a considerable amount of work was being done, and done much more quickly than before, in respect of the new road traffic orders.
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I know that this will be of little comfort to my hon. Friend and his constituents, but I can tell him that following the pressure exerted on Network Rail by him and others, and by the Department, the repairs—which began on 8 July—have been speeded up, and the timetable has been reduced from 24 weeks to 19. I know that there have been problems relating to communication with residents during the consultation, but as he also acknowledged, some changes have been made as a result of the consultation.
I congratulate my hon. Friend again on securing the debate. He has described very clearly the concern and disruption that the works have caused to his constituents. Everyone accepts that if the works were not carried out,
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the structure would deteriorate. As for the operational details, I will write to him about them if he will allow me to do so, because I am not sure of the position. There may well be temporary problems because of the position of the rail track.
I think it important to note that, notwithstanding the frustration that has been caused, at the end of those 19 weeks this large maintenance project will have enabled the bridge to meet modern highway standards to an extent that was not possible before. I hope that my successors and those of the hon. Gentleman will not have to discuss the bridge for another 50 years.