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There have been seven excellent contributions to the debate, and I was struck by the amount of personal experience that we have heard. My hon. Friend talked about his experience as a college principal and the stigma of the disease in this country. The right hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) gave a brilliant contribution about his role in the all-party group. He was rightly frustrated about progress and the wildly different standards across the globe, although we are all equally vulnerable to this terrible disease.
My hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) spoke from a mining perspective about his experience and that of his constituents. The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke) spoke personally and directly about her experience of the disease. My right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron) brought his considerable health experience to the debate. The hon. Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) painted a serious and distressing picture of what the disease can mean in places in which people are weak and vulnerable, but also talked about what can be done practically. Finally, my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr Sharma) rightly spoke about the picture globally and in the UK, and about his experience in his constituency.
Tuberculosis has cast a long shadow over our country; I can recall my grandparents talking about life alongside people with TB. That shadow led to the bright sunlight of our NHS, which we are proud of. TB preys on the vulnerable, the poor and the weak. I will ask questions of the Minister, but it is worth remembering that, as the hon. Member for City of Chester pointed out, we are talking about putting in place systems to protect people.
TB is a horrible, debilitating disease. To add to the picture drawn by my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe, in our own country TB robbed us of John Keats at age 25 and George Orwell at age 46—think about what those two people might have contributed to our country had they not left us at a young age.
The tragedy of the 1 million deaths from TB each year is the fact that it is a curable disease. As other hon. Members have made clear, we face a growing problem of drug resistance, as well as basic issues about resources and infrastructure; those factors are holding back our ability to cut the persistently high mortality rate for the disease.
TB is not solely a problem in the poorest countries; as my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, Southall pointed out, it is also a problem here in the UK. Although I am responding to this debate as a shadow International Development Minister, tackling TB demonstrates why we must never see development as some kind of offshore policy issue. Real action to tackle TB diagnosis, treatment, drug resistance and co-morbidities across the developing world will benefit the NHS and public health at home, as well as right across the globe.
I was pleased to serve on the International Development Committee in 2012, when we considered the contribution of the Department for International Development to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. At the time, the Committee expressed real concerns about delays to DFID funding for that crucial organisation, which is estimated to have saved as many as 8.7 million lives. I am pleased that Ministers took the Committee’s concerns seriously and that next week the UK will be part of the global health fund replenishment.
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If we are to eliminate TB globally, the fund requires sustained, guaranteed funding. Will the Minister set out how Britain will make sure that there is more long-term stability for such funding?
Although the global health fund is a vital player and the UK’s contribution to it is extremely welcome, it remains the case that DFID does not currently engage in bilateral funding of programmes related to TB. That is despite the fact that, as has already been mentioned, the UN high-level panel on the post-millennium development goals framework, co-chaired by the Prime Minister himself, found that spending on TB diagnosis, prevention and treatment returns £30 of benefits for every pound spent; that surely satisfies the Government’s demands for value for money. Will the Minister tell us more about how DFID keeps under review its potential for funding TB-specific programmes through bilateral programmes?
Clearly, Britain’s strategy for improving prevention, diagnosis and cure of TB in the poorest countries has to go beyond specific funds—here I develop the point made by the hon. Member for City of Chester—in that it needs to be part of a holistic set of policies to build up functioning, universal health services, the lack of which holds back the fight against tuberculosis. Weak health care systems are thought to be a key reason for the estimated 3 million missed diagnoses of TB and increasing mortality rates from the disease. As I mentioned, our own experience of the disease before the days of the NHS should tell us that, if nothing else does.
In the UK we are right to be proud of the NHS, and we should not be shy about promoting through our development work the benefits of universal health care that is free at the point of use. Curbing a disease such as TB, which is widespread and hits some of the world’s poorest people disproportionately, is simply not going to happen if, when we attempt to do so through health systems, user fees are levied. Put starkly, 27 nations are considered to have a high burden of TB drug resistance. In each of those countries, the average cost of treatment exceeds the annual GDP per capita. If the poorest people cannot afford treatment, they will not receive it.
Britain has a good story to tell in this regard: in 2009, faced with concerns about TB diagnosis at home, the then Government took the decision to remove prescription charges for anyone attending a TB clinic. That should be what we advocate and support in every developing nation we work with that has a high TB incidence. Will the Minister put on the record DFID’s position on providing bilateral support for health care systems where user fees are currently charged? What specific work is being done to ensure that TB treatments are available free of charge in the nations with which DFID has a bilateral relationship? It is important to set out that principle.
Once again, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe for securing such an important debate and bringing his experience to it. I also thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed today.
3.45 pm
The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Mr Alan Duncan):
I thank the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) for securing this important
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debate. If I may say so, it has been one of the best Westminster Hall debates I have been to. The speeches have all been passionate and have each come from a slightly different angle. Together, they form a comprehensive picture of the action that this issue requires.
We all know that tuberculosis remains one of the world’s biggest killers. It causes untold suffering and kills more than 1 million people across the world every year. What makes that tragedy much worse is that every single one of those deaths is preventable. The World Health Organisation’s recently launched annual global TB report outlines the progress and challenges in reaching international TB targets. Efforts to tackle TB are having a real effect. The incidence of TB has fallen in all six WHO regions and TB cases have been falling worldwide for a decade. However, the rate of decline remains too slow, at just 2% a year.
Resistance to TB drugs is a growing threat and the risk of resurgence is therefore always present. The figures are compelling: 8.6 million people still developed TB in 2012, and 1.3 million died. TB is one of the top 10 killers of children worldwide—a situation that is wholly unacceptable, as it is wholly preventable. There are wider social and economic costs as well, as TB primarily affects young adults in what should be their most productive years. Right hon. and hon. Members have spoken passionately about the areas for action highlighted in the global TB report.
The UK remains absolutely committed to the global goal of halving deaths from TB by 2015. We are helping people to have effective diagnosis and treatment, including for TB and HIV co-infection and for multi-drug-resistant TB. We are also helping to develop more effective treatment and better vaccines. All that work needs good health systems, so we are helping countries to build effective, efficient and durable health systems to support the delivery of TB programmes. Without such systems, we can have the best intentions, but there will be no means of achieving enough.
What is more, the Department for International Development is tackling the underlying risk factors for developing active TB. TB is a disease of poverty and squalor. Factors associated with poverty, such as malnutrition, overcrowding and poor sanitation, dramatically increase the chance of someone becoming infected and developing active TB. It is no wonder, therefore, that the ghastly prison described by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) —in what I thought was a remarkable speech—is so obviously perilous.
Grahame M. Morris: The Minister is responding systematically to the debate, which I appreciate, but will he turn his attention to the issues I raised about the incidence of TB among miners in South Africa? The hon. Member for City of Chester talked about chronic conditions in prisons; the hostel accommodation for miners, along with the confines of the mines they work in, is causing TB to spread. Will the Minister also comment on the obligations on UK-headquartered mining companies?
Mr Duncan: The hon. Gentleman has raised a serious point. If he will bear with me, I will come to the issue of South Africa in just a moment. As he and the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) said, the issue is obvious and compelling, and has to be addressed.
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In spite of tough times, the broad picture for the UK is that we are delivering on our promise to spend 0.7% of gross national income on development. This year we will become the first G8 nation ever to do so. We are clear about our responsibility to deliver aid that is transparent, that delivers value for money and that produces the best results for the world’s poorest people. Our support to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria helps to do just that. Between 2002 and 2012, the global health fund supported the detection and treatment of 9.7 million cases of TB.
To respond to the continuity point raised by the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern), who spoke from the Opposition Front Bench, last month the UK Government committed up to £1 billion over the next three years, which is enough to save a life every three minutes. The global health fund allocates 18% of its funds to TB, which equates to £180 million of UK development funding specifically for that disease. Improving basic TB control is critical to prevent the further spread of TB, and includes early detection and diagnosis of people with the illness, ensuring that they get the right treatment and care, and checking that their families and other close contacts do not also have active TB. Also important is the reporting of cases, so that health authorities can better monitor them and improve their services.
Let me turn to the work we are doing through our country bilateral support programmes. DFID is working closely with the Government of South Africa to expand the quality and access of public sector services, including TB control, and is increasing the speed with which new TB drugs are registered. In conjunction with the World Bank, DFID is also engaged in a new partnership with the private sector in South Africa. The partnership has been set up to increase public-private collaboration to reduce the high incidence of TB specifically in miners and in the communities around them. We will continue to focus on that important target group, to which the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) referred. In India, DFID is working with Indian pharmaceutical manufacturers to improve the price and security of supply for high-quality drugs for resistant TB and new low-cost diagnostic products.
Co-infection has been covered thoroughly today. Many countries have made considerable progress in addressing the combined epidemic of TB and HIV. However, there were still 320,000 deaths from HIV-associated TB in 2012. DFID is supporting improved co-ordination and collaboration between TB and HIV services jointly. As part of our commitment to the global health fund, we are pushing it to do more to prevent, diagnose and treat TB and HIV co-infection.
The UK Government are very concerned about the spread of drug-resistant TB, which probably results from the improper use of antibiotics. A patient who develops active disease with a drug-resistant TB strain can transmit that form of TB to other individuals, which threatens the whole global response to TB. Drug resistance increases the cost of treatment and makes it more difficult to ensure that effective treatment is accessible to the poorest. We support efforts to tackle drug-resistant TB through our support to UNITAID, the global health fund and research.
The UK has a strong record of supporting research and development for effective treatments, diagnostics and vaccines. We support a number of product development partnerships that bring together a range of public,
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private and community organisations. They are designed to develop and deliver new products more rapidly and more cheaply than either the public or private sectors can do alone.
I should mention TB REACH, to which four or five hon. Members referred. The issue is not as straightforward as any of us in public policy would like. We have reviewed the external mid-term evaluation of TB REACH, and the findings suggest that it has successfully funded pilot projects and innovative approaches, which we applaud. The question is whether it will be able to roll them out effectively in the long term and on an adequate scale. We propose that DFID officials should meet the executive director of the Stop TB Partnership to discuss how the global health fund can better support the expansion of proven TB REACH projects. It is important the TB REACH implementers co-ordinate more closely with national TB control programmes—again, that was raised today—and are part of national planning processes. That is crucial to secure longer-term support.
Nick Herbert: I am grateful to the Minister for responding to our points about TB REACH. Does he accept that although it will no doubt be worth having a dialogue with the global health fund about supporting proven TB REACH projects, further projects will rely on the continued funding of that programme? As my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Stephen Mosley) effectively said, TB REACH funds projects that the global health fund will not fund because they are unproven. TB REACH allows innovation on the ground in such projects. Will the Minister reflect on that and consider my request for a meeting to discuss the TB REACH programme before a final decision is taken about its funding?
Mr Duncan: I certainly undertake to consider that, but obviously, as I am on my feet at the moment, I cannot give a commitment. We provide core funding to the Stop TB Partnership, some of which is used to support TB REACH continuously. I understand exactly what my right hon. Friend is saying, and I hope that the meeting to which I have referred can explore that point in more detail and address his concerns conclusively.
DFID has also supported the Foundation for Innovative and New Diagnostics—FIND—to develop a rapid molecular test, GeneXpert, to which reference has been made. It can be used by health care workers with minimal training and laboratory facilities. The test is associated with a 40% improvement in case detection rates and can provide test results within two hours. Working through the Stop TB Partnership and UNITAID, the Department has supported the policy development and distribution of GeneXpert, which is available in 29 countries. In August, DFID announced support to nine public-private partnerships, including FIND, the TB Alliance and Aeras. Those partnerships will help to fund crucial work on developing new and more effective tools to prevent, diagnose and treat TB.
We cannot shelter the UK from what is happening around the world. In 2011, nearly 9,000 cases of TB were reported in the UK. More than 6,000 of them were in people born outside the UK. The patterns must be analysed, followed and fully understood. A cross-government approach is also essential. Public Health England has made TB one of its priorities and is working to oversee a stronger national approach.
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Resistance to all antimicrobials—the drugs used to prevent and treat bacterial, fungal, viral and some parasitic infections in humans and animals—is increasing, but of greatest concern is the rapid increase in bacterial resistance to antibiotics, including those used to treat TB. In September, the Government published a new five-year antimicrobial resistance strategy, which sets out actions to slow the development and spread of anti- microbial resistance, including strengthened international collaboration. That is why DFID will continue to work with the Department of Health and others to provide national and international policy leadership. We must play our part in ensuring co-ordinated action to tackle TB at home and abroad.
In conclusion, significant progress has been made since 1995 in controlling TB, with more than 56 million cases treated and 22 million lives saved. That progress has been rooted in improved partnership, policy, innovation, and national and international leadership. We have grounds for optimism, but we are not complacent about the significant challenges ahead, in which the UK will continue to play its full part.
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Helicopters (North Sea)
4 pm
Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): It is a pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin. This is a short debate, which I intend to use to put on record the major reasons why the Department for Transport should order a public inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005 into the offshore oil and gas helicopter transport system.
The North sea oil and gas industry is crucial to the UK economy. The industry and its supply chain claim 440,000 employees, around 30,000 of whom work offshore. Its investment this year will be in excess of £13 billion. It is an extremely important industry. Because of the hostile environment of the North sea, the only reasonable method of transport to and from offshore installations is by helicopter. Since 1976, there have been 13 helicopter-related incidents, in which 118 people have died. In addition to those, there were a further seven fatalities in an incident in Morecambe bay in 2006.
In the past four years, we have had five separate incidents. In three of those, the helicopter ditched in the North sea, thankfully without any fatalities, but on 1 April 2009, 16 people died when a Super Puma L2 aircraft crashed near Peterhead, and on 23 August this year, four people died when a Super Puma AS332 crashed off Sumburgh. In all five incidents, various models of the Super Puma aircraft were involved. That aircraft is the workhorse of the North sea industry, and it should be no surprise that those successive incidents have wrecked the morale and confidence of offshore workers and their families, as shown by a recent survey undertaken by Unite the union.
Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab): I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. I declare an interest, in that my nephew, Alan Lawson, was involved in a helicopter crash on 18 February 2009. The helicopter landed in the North sea in the most dreadful conditions. Fortunately, all the people on the helicopter, including Alan, survived, but I want to congratulate my hon. Friend on pursuing these matters as tenaciously as he is, because I know from the sidelines of the terrible trauma that the family of that young man—my sister’s son—experienced. The matter still has not been resolved, and I want my hon. Friend to be reassured that there is great support for the marvellous work that he is doing.
Mr Doran: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for those remarks—I promise I did not pay him.
There are many reasons why an inquiry is necessary, but I will focus on three principal reasons. First, the relationship between the oil industry and the helicopter industry needs to be considered in some detail. The Competition Commission carried out an inquiry into the industry in 2003 and recognised at that time:
“Oil companies are much larger and commercially stronger organisations than the helicopter operators”,
“oil companies had become more determined to force down their supply costs.”
That statement is accurate, but it is an understatement of the true position. The contracts reached by the oil industry with helicopter and other service companies are very one-sided. The contractor has obligations for a
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period. In the case of the helicopter operators, it is usually for five years, whereas the oil majors can change the contract terms at any time. When the oil price dips, oil companies look at their supply contracts. In the late 1990s, when the oil price was consistently low, many supply chain companies, including helicopter operators, had their contracted prices cut severely. In one helicopter company with which I had discussions, the cut was 20%. Something similar happened five or six years ago when the oil price dropped again. The practice is common in the North sea, but it is very difficult to see how a helicopter company, when its prices are cut without notice to that extent, can respond and at the same time maintain the maintenance and other costs that are crucial to the safety of the service.
I do not know whether the Civil Aviation Authority is aware of that practice. It should be, because significant cuts in income and elsewhere could severely restrict an operator’s ability to maintain safe standards. We should all know whether the CAA takes into account the huge imbalance between the oil industry client and the helicopter operators.
Given the importance of the transport industry in the North sea, it does not seem appropriate, at least to me, that the helicopter companies are treated in exactly the same way as any other supplier. The service is far too important. The huge imbalance between the oil and gas companies and the helicopter contractors should not be allowed to prejudice safety. The relationship should be subjected to the most intense scrutiny. Given the recent international agreement with Iran, a drop in the oil price is foreseeable when Iranian oil comes back into the market. It is worth emphasising that as a good example of how volatile the oil price can be.
The second issue to consider is the significant disparity in how different helicopter companies operate, particularly in how helicopters are maintained, the training of engineers and other staff and company cultures generally. I have spoken with a number of employees of different companies, and it is clear that training regimes, the number of flight hours and procedures vary considerably between companies. This is not the place to go into that in detail, but the available evidence suggests that the CAA should be taking a stricter line in its scrutiny of individual companies, their practices and their safety culture.
Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): Is not the reason why there has to be a much more wide-ranging inquiry into helicopter safety, rather than the individual inquiries that go on when something has gone wrong, that we should look to see what is the best regime for helicopter companies to apply to both their work force and their maintenance regime?
Mr Doran: I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. There is a huge issue about the advice and recommendations that the regulator makes and how they are implemented.
The third area of concern also relates to the companies, and it is about how the CAA regulates the industry. Individual companies have different practices for checks and maintenance during operating hours, which are usually from 7 am to 7 pm. There should be a benchmark of best practice that is rigorously enforced.
In the past, one or more helicopter operators have attempted to develop a gold standard in safety in all aspects of the operation, but those efforts usually fail
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because of the fear of being undercut, or because of actually being undercut, by a competitor. I understand, however, that all three of the companies currently providing a service in the North sea are meeting to see whether they can agree on improved practices that they will all share. That is a move in the right direction, but it prompts the question why the CAA did not take the initiative a long time ago and insist on a gold standard across the board.
In the correspondence that I have had with the Department, the focus of Minister’s responses has been on the most recent incident, which was the crash of 23 August 2013. Of course, that incident prompted my involvement, but I was concerned with the whole history of transport in the North sea, and in particular the experience over the past four years. It is worth looking at some of the incidents in detail.
In 1992, a helicopter crashed in the North sea from the Cormorant Alpha platform. There were 11 fatalities. The weather conditions, the fact that it was night-time, poor visibility and so on were major contributors to the accident. As a result of that disaster, the CAA introduced operating policies to improve the management of helicopter operations in adverse weather conditions.
On 27 December 2006, an Aerospatiale SA365N helicopter crashed near the North Morecambe gas platform. The investigation found:
“The co-pilot was flying an approach to the North Morecambe platform at night, in poor weather conditions, when he lost control of the helicopter”.
The air accidents investigation branch recommended that the CAA ensure that personnel who are required to conduct weather observations from offshore installations are suitably trained, qualified and provided with equipment that can accurately measure the cloud base and visibility.
On 18 February 2009, a Eurocopter EC 225 LP Super Puma crashed into the North sea close to the ETAP—eastern trough area project—platform. Again, the major findings of the AAIB inquiry included the impact of reduced visibility in the immediate vicinity of the ETAP platform as a major contributory factor. The safety recommendation that it made to the CAA was that the guidance in the CAA’s relevant publication should be re-emphasised—I underline that—implying that it was not being followed properly in the industry.
On 23 August 2013, a helicopter crashed into the North sea off Sumburgh. We do not have the full AAIB report on the incident, but it is clear that the weather conditions and visibility were very poor. I cannot say for certain that this latest incident was linked to the others that I have mentioned. However, I and the pilots I have spoken to believe that all four incidents, from the Cormorant Alpha through to the incident this year, are linked by the impact of poor weather and visibility.
As I have mentioned, since 1992 there has been a specific recommendation drawing attention to the need for suitably trained and qualified staff, with appropriate equipment to measure the cloud base and visibility. That was repeated by the AAIB in more detail in 2006. Since 1992, there have been at least two failures and perhaps three in the implementation of that recommendation. That raises again the question of how the CAA ensures that its recommendations are being properly implemented. It does not seem that it operates with a hands-on approach.
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I have deliberately focused on major areas of concern, and my approach may seem unfair, particularly to the oil industry and to the CAA. There are many positives that I could have raised in both cases, but my objective is fairly simple. The Government, in the shape of the Department for Transport, have a responsibility. There are serious issues to be addressed in the North sea transport system. They cannot be properly addressed with the piecemeal approach that is being adopted at the moment. In particular, the role of the regulator needs to be considered. The CAA should not and cannot be expected to review its own performance. The situation demands a full public inquiry.
The Secretary of State for Scotland, in a recent press interview, said that the Government’s approach would be faster and better, particularly for the families of victims. I do not think that the families of the victims of the 2009 crash, who have waited nearly five years for their fatal accident inquiry, would agree. The Secretary of State also said that a public inquiry would be too expensive. The Piper Alpha inquiry looked into the whole safety regime on offshore installations and produced a comprehensive report that is now the benchmark for safety in the oil and gas industry around the world. The value of that is incalculable.
I asked the Department of Energy and Climate Change what the Piper Alpha inquiry cost. To say the least, I was a little disappointed in the reply:
“The Department has checked internal records and with The National Archives, but we have been unable to locate any documents relating to the cost of the inquiry.”—[Official Report, 25 November 2013; Vol. 571, c. 14W.]
That came as a bit of a surprise to me, because it was a very high-profile inquiry.
However, I did manage to dig out, again with the help of the Library, a question asked by the late Donald Dewar of the then Secretary of State for Scotland, the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind). According to the answer, the cost of the inquiry was estimated to be—this was before the inquiry had completely finished—about £3 million. That is fairly cheap, given the scope and length of the inquiry. The Library tells me that in today’s money it is about £5.7 million. I checked the cost of a Super Puma helicopter, which I thought would be of some interest. It is $18 million, which is roughly £11 million, so for the price of one Super Puma, we could have two Cullen inquiries.
I understand why Ministers may have some inhibitions about the costs of a public inquiry, particularly in these austere times, but also because one or two have swallowed up a lot of public money. However, the issues in this case are fairly straightforward and focused. I would expect the inquiry to be shorter than the Piper Alpha one and, in relative terms, cheaper.
A number of inquiries have been set up, including one by the CAA working with the Norwegian CAA and the European Aviation Safety Agency. There is also the likely oil industry independent inquiry. The fatal accident inquiry into the 2009 crash, which I have mentioned, is due to commence on 6 January next year. I repeat: it is a disgrace that the families have had to wait for nearly five years for that. At some future date, an August 2013
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fatal accident inquiry will be required, and of course the Select Committee on Transport has announced an inquiry.
Although I am sure that each of those inquiries will be useful, they are not the inquiry that is necessary. I strongly believe that what the industry needs is a full inquiry into every aspect of the offshore transport industry, similar to the Piper Alpha inquiry. I believe that nothing else will restore the confidence of the work force, root out the problems in the industry and provide us with the essential blueprint to operate offshore helicopter transport safely in the future.
4.16 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill): It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, Mr Dobbin. I thank the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran) for securing this debate on helicopter transport over the North sea. That gave me the opportunity to be briefed by my officials, and his speech contained information that I also found very useful in understanding the situation. I have also read his letter to the Secretary of State for Transport, which was a comprehensive outline of the position that he takes.
As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are approximately 57,000 individuals in the North sea, working across 600 facilities. The only viable means of transferring workers in the North sea industry from shore to installation and from one installation to another is by helicopter. I have travelled myself in a helicopter from Aberdeen to the Captain field and also made the short and rather precarious jump from the production platform to the tanker where oil was being pumped. Having gone through the safety drill that one has to go through before travelling on a helicopter, I was all too aware myself of the dangers that helicopter flights in the North sea can, sadly, present at times. I also understand the strategic importance of maintaining links to the North sea oil industry and, during the recent unfortunate problems at Grangemouth, the Department was keen to ensure that sufficient oil supplies—four tankers a day—would be available to ensure that those flights could continue to service the industry.
There are approximately 100 flights a day operating in one of the most hostile environments in the UK, and I recognise that there have been a number of helicopter incidents in the past five years, which have caused unacceptable and tragic fatalities and provoked great apprehension about the safety of helicopter operations among the work force.
I would like to take this opportunity to offer my own condolences to the families who suffered such a tragic loss in the recent accident involving a Super Puma helicopter off Sumburgh airport in the Shetland Islands on 23 August 2013.
The hon. Gentleman will understand that I cannot say much about that specific accident, as the AAIB investigation is ongoing. However, the AAIB, in its special bulletin published on 5 September 2013, provided initial information on the circumstances of the accident. That bulletin provides an update on the significant investigation findings to date. My understanding of that report is that a detailed examination of the wreckage and analysis of the recorded data has been carried out and has not found any evidence of a technical fault that could have caused the accident, although some work
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remains to be completed. The ongoing AAIB investigation will focus on the operational aspects of the flight—specifically on the effectiveness of pilot monitoring of instruments during the approach, operational procedures and the training of flight crews.
In the circumstances, Super Puma operations were grounded until further information was available. However, based on the evidence from the AAIB investigation that there was no reason to believe that the accident was caused by airworthiness or technical failure of the Super Puma helicopter, the CAA endorsed the decision taken by the operators to resume flights. The CAA would not have allowed the helicopter to resume services if it was not completely satisfied that to do so was safe, and I understand that the pilots’ union advised that their members would not be flying the helicopters unless they were equally confident that it was safe to do so.
As the hon. Gentleman makes clear, however, we are concerned not simply about a single accident but about the number of accidents that have occurred over a relatively short period. I support the fact that the CAA is conducting a review that will rigorously examine the risks and hazards of operating in the North sea and consider how those risks can be managed most effectively. The review covers all the main areas of safety, and it takes a close look at the operators, protection for passengers and pilots, helicopter airworthiness, regulation and pilot training. I promise to study it when it is published.
The CAA is undertaking that review jointly with the Norwegian CAA so that a direct comparison can be made between experiences and approaches to safety in the two countries, to see whether any lessons can be learned. The UK and Norway both operate within the wider rules set by Europe, however, so the regulatory framework is the same for both countries.
It will be no surprise that the European Aviation Safety Agency is contributing to the work, which will be advised and challenged by a panel of independent experts. The CAA has held a workshop with the Norwegian CAA and the EASA as part of the review to examine the risks and issues identified, to share information on differences between UK and Norwegian operations and to discuss initial recommendations. The CAA is still waiting for information from the Norwegian authorities before it conducts its deliberations on those aspects of the review.
Mr Doran: I acknowledge everything the Minister is saying, but the point I was making about the CAA inquiry is that the regulator cannot examine itself, and it should not be required to. Another type of inquiry is needed. I have raised a number of questions about the CAA’s operation in the North sea, and I would be interested to hear the Minister’s response.
Mr Goodwill: As a former member of the Transport Committee, I visited the CAA with Gwyneth Dunwoody, who did not take any hostages when it came to examining the organisation. I am confident that the CAA is the gold standard of aviation authorities, and it is well respected internationally. I have no doubts about the integrity and the safety culture that permeates the CAA. I will be visiting it very soon, and I will ensure that I raise the points that the hon. Gentleman has made.
Mr Doran: In that case, will the Minister write to me later on the issues that I have raised?
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Mr Goodwill: By all means; I am happy to do so. It is reassuring to note that the review will not only study current operations, but look at previous incidents and accidents and offshore helicopter flying in other countries to make recommendations aimed at improving the safety of offshore flying.
The hon. Gentleman raised the shocking number of deaths, of which there have been 118 since 1976. Although I have not had the opportunity to review all those accidents, I can tell him that in the five most recent incidents, two of which involved fatalities, there was no common factor that would tend to affect all such incidents. No picture is emerging of a particular problem that must be addressed.
I note the point that the hon. Gentleman made about the 2009 case, which sadly resulted in 16 deaths. A fatal accident inquiry will commence on 14 January, and I understand the distress that the delay in holding it has caused the families. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman understands that one of the reasons why the inquiry could not take place sooner was that there was, at one point, a prospect of possible legal action in connection with the case. I understand the distress that that has caused the families, however, and I hope that when the inquiry has concluded and presented its findings, they will obtain better closure.
I also note the point that the hon. Gentleman made about cloud-based and meteorological information, and I will raise that with officials to see whether anything can be done to address it, and how big a factor it might have been in any of the accidents.
Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I have been listening carefully to the Minister’s contribution, and it strikes me that one of the most powerful points made by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran) was that weather might well be a factor. The Minister said that there were no common factors in the most recent incidents, but surely that would be the purpose of an overarching inquiry.
Mr Goodwill: I understand the point that the hon. Lady makes. However, gearboxes in helicopters are notoriously problematic if they are not properly maintained. My point is that other factors, which may or may not include pilot error, can contribute to accidents. I am pleased that the inquiry will at least determine the cause of the accident, which resulted in so many fatalities.
I agree with the hon. Member for Aberdeen North that the Piper Alpha inquiry revolutionised the safety culture in the North sea. It reminded me of the maxim often heard in industry, “If you think health and safety is expensive, try having an accident”. The health and safety of those operating in such a hazardous environment must be paramount.
It is clear that any accident is one too many, and there will always be lessons that must be learned when such accidents happen. To date, the UK has played a leading role in introducing a number of significant safety improvements in North sea operations. Electronic monitoring on board helicopters provides an early warning of any developing technical issues, and there has been significant research and development of helideck lighting to assist helicopter pilots when landing.
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Satellite-guided approaches for landing and other operational improvements are under development. The CAA plans to publish its findings in early 2014, so the hon. Gentleman will understand why I do not support his call for a Cullen-style public inquiry at this stage. The Government think that it would be premature to call for a public inquiry before the AAIB investigation and the CAA review are concluded.
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DWP Offices (Fylde)
4.27 pm
Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): I am delighted to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin, and to see so many colleagues from the Fylde coast here, particularly the shadow Transport Minister, the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden), who has moved back one row following the previous debate. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies), who would have been here were it not for personal circumstances, would wish me to place on record his support for the points I intend to make today.
At a time of rapid changes in welfare provision, it can be forgotten that we need a large, active, professional and highly qualified staff to deliver those changes. The staff of the Department for Work and Pensions at the numerous sites across the Fylde coast perform with great professionalism, delivering consistently high levels of service against a challenging backdrop.
That backdrop is doubly uncertain because we know the rigours under which the Department is working. Its core budget is to be reduced by 26% by 2014-15, and corporate overheads are to be reduced by 40% by the same date. Clearly, that has resulted in some difficult decisions for Ministers and those who manage the service. As a written answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace) in June 2011 demonstrated, the headcount at the three main sites on the Fylde has declined from 5,116 in 2002 to 4,600 in 2011.
That, of course, raises many questions in the minds of those who work for the DWP on the Fylde about what the future might hold. It is unsurprising—indeed, it is natural—that they wish to see more job opportunities come to the Fylde. I do not think the Minister will be surprised to hear that: it is natural to want more work to come to the Fylde.
In defence of the Minister, the last time I asked how many compulsory redundancies we had seen on the Fylde specifically, the answer was three. The headcount has reduced due to managed programmes of people leaving the service. We have been fortunate on some levels that the cuts on the Fylde coast have not been worse. We must recognise that there will be ongoing challenges. We cannot assume that because we have escaped lightly so far, we will continue to escape lightly in future. For example, we will shortly face the closure of the Marton Mere site, which will mean 300 jobs have to move elsewhere.
The purpose of today’s debate is not to rehearse statistics about job losses or even to demand extra work for Fylde, but to look specifically at how decisions are being taken about which sites are to remain open, which are to close and, most importantly, where to move the staff to from the three main sites. I may end up being arcane in a moment—those who do not live on the Fylde might think, “What is he talking about?”—but although the three sites are only seven or eight miles apart, getting from Norcross to Peel Park is a significant logistical challenge. It is not something that many people who live on the Fylde would voluntarily choose to do, but the decisions being made are forcing many people to make difficult decisions about whether they can continue to work at the DWP, given the caring responsibilities they have in their families.
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In 2006, my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre and Preston North secured an Adjournment debate on the identical issue of how decisions were being made about the Fylde. He was successful, in that he got the then Minister, the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), to visit the Fylde coast to look at what was occurring there. We were fortunate in that she agreed to appoint a “cluster lead” for the Fylde, who would have an overall perspective on what was happening on the Fylde coast. Each of the main sites would also have a site lead, who would feed into that pyramid process. The key point I want to communicate to the Minister today is that that model added value to decision making.
Let me also remind the Minister that we are looking at the future of the sites. The future can be a difficult concept in government—we do not know what next week will bring, let alone what will happen in 2018. Many at Warbreck house see 2018, when the transfer from the disability living allowance to the personal independence payment will be completed, as something of a crunch point for the future of the DWP on the Fylde. Any comments the Minister can make about the future of Warbreck house in particular will be gratefully received.
Since 2006, we have seen natural wastage, as we would in any organisation. Cluster leads have retired or moved to other jobs, and the architecture has broken down. The decision-making process that made for better decisions has broken down. I shall take one, admittedly convoluted example, which might demonstrate my point. The decision was taken to wind down the most northerly site, Norcross, in September 2012. The last date of occupation was to be 31 August 2013, but on 18 December 2012, it was announced that some 220 staff would remain on the Norcross site at Tomlinson house, while the remaining staff would still transfer to Warbreck and Peel Park. Peel Park is the most southerly of the locations and Warbreck is squarely in the middle. Coping with the changes caused problems for our constituents. We were grateful that jobs were maintained on the Fylde, but the consequences of doing so were difficult.
More recently, the DWP announced that the landlord at Marton Mere wanted the DWP to leave the site, which meant that 265 people had to be rehoused, but there was great confusion. Marton Mere is nearest to Peel Park, at the southern end of the Fylde. There was uncertainty over whether the staff would move to Warbreck or Peel Park. No one could decide; there was oscillation between the two. In the end, the decision was made to switch from Peel Park to Warbreck, specifically because Peel Park had to accommodate those moving from Norcross. The most northerly staff had to go to the most southerly site. A cluster lead might have said, “Hang on a minute. Can’t we put the people nearest to Norcross into the spaces at Warbreck and accommodate the people from Marton Mere at Peel Park?” It might not have been possible, but at least a cluster lead and a system of site leads would have allowed such a debate to occur.
Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, my constituency neighbour, for giving way. I want to reinforce the point he is making. Does he agree that the complexities and difficulties in the area are exacerbated by the fact that public transport access to Peel Park is still problematic?
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Paul Maynard: The hon. Gentleman is entirely right. Maintaining public transport links to ensure that staff can get to the new locations has been an ongoing battle. I was grateful to one of the Minister’s predecessors, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling)—now Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice—who was vociferous in saying that no change could occur at Norcross without sufficient public transport links. I agree that maintaining such links is a vital battle that we must hold.
The local branch of the Public and Commercial Services Union has informed me that, because we do not have cluster leads, there have been 35 local piecemeal meetings with different business units, here, there and everywhere, discussing all the different manoeuvres. A more streamlined system might have brought about not only a better decision, but a smoother decision that was less disruptive for those in the system.
Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate, particularly given that today is Lancashire day. I agree with him about the context. I want to underline the fact that MPs in all parties have a good relationship with the PCS union. We have always had a practical and constructive relationship. There is a problem with the suggested moves. We are not talking about the most highly paid jobs in the DWP. Suggesting that people move around and deal with the transport connections on extremely low salaries is perhaps a major factor in causing a great deal of unease, particularly among those from Fleetwood employed at the sites.
Paul Maynard: I agree entirely. If I was minded to be cheeky today, which I rarely am, I would suggest that many of those making such high-level human resources decisions find it very easy to get to the locations on the Fylde, because they come straight down the M55 from outside the Fylde. They have incredible access, whereas those who live on the Fylde and have to move around it struggle the most.
I urge the Minister to look again at reappointing a cluster lead to ensure that any future changes are managed with a strategic perspective to avoid such piecemeal, unco-ordinated and occasionally contradictory decisions about where people are located on the Fylde. I do not mean to be critical at all; I just observe that the best use of the DWP estate must come from looking across the Fylde as a whole, from a Fylde perspective, not just from looking at the distances on a map between one location and another. A cluster lead could also lead the debate more effectively about how we best use Fylde recourses post-2018. Great concerns remain about what will happen to the staff in 2018.
Will the Minister look at whether the Ministry of Defence’s Service Personnel and Veterans Agency, which is based at the Norcross site, can be brought into the cluster discussion? The Norcross site encompasses both the MOD and the DWP, which are the two main Departments that employ civil servants on the Fylde, so if we are discussing the fate of civil servants on the Fylde, it seems eminently sensible for both Departments to be part of that discussion. I recently heard rumours—they are no more than rumours—that 50 people are being relocated to the SPVA from Liverpool to replace 50 casual staff taken on in the Blackpool area. Clearly discussions
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are still ongoing about what the SPVA does—I know that that does not fall under the Minister’s remit—but all that demonstrates once again that discussions are ongoing that have real consequences, but are not coherent.
We can all recognise that the DWP faces immense financial challenges. As my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Eric Ollerenshaw) mentioned, there is a strong cross-party, non-partisan relationship with the PCS on the Fylde coast. We always seek to do our best on behalf of those we represent. That is because they are doing a superb job, often on low wages and in difficult circumstances. Warbreck house does not have the most heart-warming of HR departments, to put it mildly. I have heard some appalling horror stories at times, but I want the civil servants on the Fylde to have a strong and vibrant future. A key part of achieving that will be to have a strategic cluster lead to enable the Minister to be confident that decisions take into account the reality of what is occurring on the Fylde, not just what a civil servant in Sheffield has spotted on Google Maps that morning.
4.41 pm
The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mike Penning): It is a pleasure, Mr Dobbin, to serve under your chairmanship with a new portfolio; I am in my third position in the past 18 months. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). I understand he was first reserve or last reserve—whatever reserve it was—and it is right and proper that he was ready to represent his constituents. Given that this is a half-hour debate, he has done well to get colleagues from across the House to talk about this constituency issue.
As I am relatively new to my portfolio, a lot of what I say will have been written for me by my civil servants. I will challenge that as we go forward; if some of the things I say do not match my colleagues’ local knowledge, they should let me know. I intend to visit this wonderful part of England in the near future to look at the points that have been raised and carefully consider what we can do. I cannot draw a line in the sand on the Norcross site because demolition is taking place as we speak. I hope I can, however, alleviate some of my colleagues’ concerns about what is going on with other parts of the site.
I have a piece of paper in front of me from the MOD on the part of the site that is not within my portfolio. It has shared services from the DWP and the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency, an executive agency of the MOD. That piece of paper says that that part of the site is not part of the redevelopment plans and is there to stay. It is a completely different set of buildings and their quality is completely different from the pre-war prefabs, which would have cost us a lot of money to refurbish and would not have given us any degree of longevity. I hope I can alleviate any concerns on the shared services.
The other thing I want to address is the concept that a civil servant is a civil servant. They are not completely interoperable. They are a bit like us, in many ways; there are many different sorts of MPs and we all do things in a slightly different way. Inside the civil service, people have specific jobs to do. It is not the case that because closer desks are available, those civil servants could have
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automatically gone to them. I know that it is logical that if there are closer desks, they should move to them, but it does not always work that way.
Given the skills that we need from civil servants in the Fylde, we could not just have moved them to the closer premises, not least because I have a responsibility to the taxpayer to ensure that we get best value. If we look at how the Government estate, for want of a better word, has been managed and operated around the UK over the years, we see that there has been, to say the least, a lack of joined-up government, no matter who has been in power. That is because the estate is complicated.
Demolition is taking place on the Warbreck site. We are not the owners of the site, but we have a contractual agreement on the site. We have a financial interest in what is developed on the site, once it is levelled and redeveloped. After costs, we will get an income into the Department from it.
Paul Maynard: It is the Norcross site that is being demolished.
Mike Penning: As soon as I said it, I knew I had said the wrong one. It is the Norcross site; Warbreck is a completely different kettle of fish and we are using it to its fullest capacity.
Coming back to Norcross, which is what I was supposed to have been talking about, demolition has started and it would be expensive for us to row back from that. It would have cost in excess of £30 million to do it up to a standard that would have given us any longevity. It would have cost us £100,000, should we have had a problem.
The costs are immaterial—we are where we are. There would have been legal costs and a new negotiation, because we are not the freeholders but the tenants. An income to the Department is built into the redevelopment, although we do not yet know what the exact amount will be, because we do not know how the market will perform. There is an exciting future for the Norcross site and things will move forward. [Interruption.] This is where the note comes through saying, “Minister, you might have said the wrong thing.” The cost of redevelopment would have been £20 million, not £30 million as I said, so I apologise and put that on record.
The important point made by my hon. Friend was that we must work much harder on the concept that someone sitting in Sheffield, London or Timbuktu can look at Google Maps and think, “That’s a great idea. We’ll do it that way.” Anyone who knows my previous roles—I know that my hon. Friend was on the Select Committee on Transport—will know that when I made the decision on the future of the coastguards, I specifically did not do things in that way. I looked at the needs, where it could be done and the economic effects on that part of the community. I assure him that that is exactly what I will do as we move forward.
The debate on this topic back in 2006 or 2007, secured by my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace),was the right debate. He managed to secure a commitment from the Minister to visit. Ministers get huge demands on their time for visits around the country, but it is important that they are seen not to be London-centric—that they actually go out and understand what is going on in the community and see the effects of decisions.
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I also want to praise the civil servants in the Department for Work and Pensions. The welfare reforms have been a massive transformation. There has been a lot of uncertainty, which I fully understand, as we have moved from the disability living allowance to personal independence payments, but the civil servants have done a brilliant job and the enthusiasm I have found in offices around the United Kingdom has been overwhelming. They have asked for a chance to get on with it, because they now know where they are and how to move forward.
Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): I have two things to say on that point of reform. I want to put in a bid for the Fylde to be seriously considered as a location for a universal credit hub as it is rolled out across the country. As the Minister rightly said, we have excellent civil servants, who could operate it brilliantly. It is therefore even more important that we do not have just a civil servant, but a senior-grade civil servant like a camp commandant, who can provide answers. Much of the work force feel disjointed from the management in Sheffield and London, because they cannot get the answers locally as the senior grades that they should have are not there.
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Mike Penning: That is an enormously important point. Both my hon. Friend and I come from the military, so I understand exactly the concept of ownership—the feeling that someone is part of a bigger picture. We will certainly look at the issue that he raises, as services come on stream. There is a huge amount of work still to be done, particularly in my portfolio—this issue is not all mine, even though the Department estates we are talking about are very much mine; the DLA to PIP transfer is also mine.
In conclusion, I have huge admiration for the staff involved; I will personally come to the area and thank them. In the meantime, I would be grateful if colleagues thanked their constituents on my behalf. I come with an open mind as to where we can go forward, but I cannot rewrite the books. We are where we are, and we need to move forward with this particular development.