“The engineering community should provide continuing professional development for teachers, giving them experience of working in industry”.

Here is a message that can be sent out from both Front Benches to industry: facilitate that. Coming from both Front Benches, that message would be hugely powerful.

Both reports agreed that the vocational training route into engineering was under-appreciated. The Committee was critical of Government changes to the engineering diploma following the Wolf review. The Perkins review did not comment on the reasons for the changes, but stated that

“the Royal Academy of Engineering has already led work to develop a suite of successors to the Level 1 and 2 Diploma Principal Learning qualifications in engineering.”

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The review went on to say that those have been

“accredited by Ofqual and submitted for approval for the 2016 Key Stage 4 performance tables.”

Those are important steps.

The Minister has been working closely with his colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Education, the hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), on some important matters that will help this process, but I have to say this bluntly: it is vital that we break down the ridiculous barrier that still exists in the minds of the many people who think there is a brick wall between skills that are traditionally called vocational and skills that are traditionally called academic. Personally, I do not like the word “vocational”—it seems reflective of training to be a priest or the like. Nor do I like using the word “practical” for such skills, because chartered engineers such as my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah), who has just left the Chamber, need to learn how to use the tools of the trade.

There needs to be a continuum across engineering, so that people who join the profession, perhaps as technician apprentices, have the opportunity to move forward through higher level apprenticeships to develop to their maximum potential. We need to open that door. The failure at the moment is that we have a structure that does not allow that flexibility and is too segmented, based as it is on the roles of the sector skills councils, the further education colleges and the universities as three separate groups of organisations instead of as a continuum providing for the needs of each trainee.

Peter Luff: I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but I am sure he would wish to remind hon. Members that in companies such as BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce apprentices flow through to very senior management levels—in fact, it is extraordinary how successful engineering apprentices are in those big organisations.

Andrew Miller: I absolutely agree. My point is that that happens despite the system. Companies recognise that apprenticeships are the way to develop the skills that they need.

That point leads me neatly to my third observation about the comparison between my Select Committee’s report and the Perkins review. We talked about the university technical colleges. The Committee welcomed UTCs, although it cautioned that

“the network of UTCs will not provide nationwide coverage and the Government must also focus on good engineering education in schools and colleges.”

Perkins says:

“Government should build on the UTC experience and seek to develop elite vocational provision for adults”.

All that is enormously important. As part of our inquiry, one of my senior advisers, Xameerah Malik, and I went to see the JCB academy. I recommend the visit to everyone in this room: it is an exemplar of what can happen if the mix is right. I left there saying to Xameerah, “I want to go back to school.” It really is an exciting place to learn. Very cleverly, the academy has created an environment where people get inside problems—address technical education as well as other more academic and broader subjects by getting inside them, in a way that neither traditional secondary schools nor traditional grammar schools ever did. It is an exciting place to visit and I commend it to everyone.

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How we develop in this sector requires a different approach. In my own area, we are starting to put together a proposition, which I hope will go before the Minister in the not too distant future, on creating such a vehicle inside the community which provides the skills necessary for the automotive, aerospace and chemical sectors in my constituency. It is hugely important to try to make that happen.

The difference between us is not in the content of my Select Committee’s report—my staff, Xameerah Malik and Myfanwy Borland, have done a fabulous job in pulling together some comparisons between the Perkins review and that report. We need to try to move to action on behalf of the Government—with, I hope, the support of my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright), who speaks for the Opposition, as I would like to see a genuinely joined-up approach.

My plea is that, rather than trying to identify where minor differences might exist between the political parties, Members on both Front Benches get together to create a long-term solution to take us through a generation. This issue cannot be solved within one Parliament; it needs to be addressed in the long term, so it is vital that we get that joined-up response. It is also vital that we hear from the Minister that the Government will approach this issue in a collegiate manner and provide a solution that helps us to solve the problems that the hon. Gentleman cogently set out.

I call on Members in all parts of the House to find a way forward to address the proposals that John Perkins has cleverly put together and to ensure that our engineers, like German engineers, as I mentioned in an intervention, are referred to as doctors of engineering and held in high esteem. They should be, given that they make an enormously valuable contribution to the society in which we live.

3.10 pm

David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff) on securing the debate. I want to make two or three quick points.

I stand before Members as a lapsed engineer. Thirty years ago, I set off for Imperial college, determined to become an engineer. I finished my degree, and I then became a chartered accountant, although I did go back to work in technology. I have followed many debates about engineering over the past 30 years, and it might be useful to isolate the reasons why so many people in our country, uniquely, follow such a career path and what the Government, educators and society more generally can do to make it less prevalent. I think we all agree it is not a good thing.

As I said, I am a lapsed engineer. Latterly, I have also failed to get my daughter to do A-level physics. She is doing maths and chemistry, which is a bridge too far. I realise, therefore, that my credentials for speaking in this debate are not as strong as they might be.

I have three points. First, on status and culture, there has been something unique about the status of engineering in Britain, although that is perhaps truer of England than of Britain. The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller) talked about engineers in Germany; I used to work in Norway a lot, where, again,

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people referred to engineers in the same way as they would to doctors. We do not do that in this country, and we have never really got close to doing it. Clearly, it does not matter that much, but it is an indicator of the way society regards the profession.

Another indicator—I have often reflected on this—is when an engineer was last on “Desert Island Discs” or “Woman’s Hour” talking about what they do and how they have made a difference. One of this country’s big success stories over the past few years has been Range Rover. It cannot make enough of its new aluminium cars, given how many it sells all over the world, but how many people in our country could even come close to naming the cars’ chief designer? Would that be the same in Germany, France and Holland? I suggest not, and we need to be cognisant of that. Things have got better recently—and they need to, given the shortage of engineers.

I would depart slightly from some of the remarks made by the two previous speakers. There can be a danger of confusing technicians with engineers. I do not say that in a snobby way, but there can be an assumption that people have to be practical to study engineering—that those who would study engineering at Oxford, Cambridge or Imperial would be the sort of people who enjoy stripping down a car. That is not true, and having such an assumption at the heart of the discipline of engineering can be a problem. That is not to say that places such as the JCB academy are not brilliant—we absolutely need more of them, and they have a role to play—but we must be careful about our language.

At organisations such as the Royal Dutch Shell group, the top half-dozen people will almost always have an engineering background. In Royal Dutch Shell’s case, that is partly because of its Dutch heritage, rather than its British heritage—[Interruption.] Yes, it is. In so far as there are disciplines and professions in the Royal Dutch Shell group, the people with an engineering background tend to be based in Holland, not the UK, which is stronger on marketing.

Aside from status and culture, we also have salary and prospects. When I finished my engineering degree, I became a chartered accountant. One of the guys who started on the same day had come top in engineering at Cambridge, but he became a chartered accountant and then went into the City—I do not know what happened to him after that. That would happen in no other country in the world; nobody in the United States who left the Massachusetts Institute of Technology having come high up the list of graduates would go on to become a certified public accountant.

However, at the time I became a chartered accountant—it was 30 years ago, although I suspect this is still happening—we saw fit to incentivise people in a certain way. The guy who joined with me was making a commercial decision about his career, and he thought, rightly or wrongly, that he could do better and progress more quickly by taking the route he did. As a result, however, there was a penalty to be paid by society, and I contend that we have been paying it for the past 20 or 30 years.

There is also an issue about salary. I gently point out that, while the Government hire many engineers and people from other professions, such as barristers, we would have to go a long way to find engineers we chose to pay £200,000 or £300,000 purely from Government money, in the same way as we choose—again, uniquely in this country—to remunerate advocates.

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Peter Luff: My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. Just for the record, I should say that the median annual salary by degree subject six months and three and a half years after graduation is higher for engineering and technology than it is for law.

David Mowat: I am delighted to hear that. However, I repeat my question: how many engineers do the Government pay £200,000 or £300,000 a year, in the same way as they apparently pay advocates—a subset of them are about to go on strike over their pay—out of public, as opposed to private, money? We think that is normal. That is to do with cultural norms and with an assumption we make in this country about the relative value of careers, which is wrong.

Finally, we have made a lot of progress—even in this Parliament—on education. I welcome a lot of the noise coming out of the Government about the need to promote technical education, maths and physics—the STEM subjects—and all that goes with that. I have been of the view that a liberal arts-biased education system is deeply ingrained in our country. I very much hope that the progress that has been made in the past few years towards emphasising STEM—particularly for women—continues. Fixing the issue is a prerequisite for achieving the sort of economy we will need to have in the next two or three decades.

Meg Munn rose—

Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair): Order. Before I call Meg Munn, I should point out that I have been informed that we may have a Division fairly soon. If we do, I will have to suspend proceedings for 15 minutes. In the meantime, however, we will carry on.

3.19 pm

Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): I congratulate the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff) on securing the debate and on his excellent contribution.

The Perkins review is an important publication. It clearly shows that the Government and others need to do much more to ensure we are not disadvantaged more than we are by the lack of people with engineering skills or by people not using the engineering skills they have. The review highlights the low proportion of women working in engineering and states:

“One of the main reasons…is girls’ subject choices in school.”

Few girls study mathematics, and even fewer physics, through to A-level. In 2011, 49% of state-funded schools had no girls taking A-level physics at all. Much has been written on the issue, including by me. Many initiatives have been tried, but the proportion of women engineers remains stubbornly small. Recommendation 7 of the Perkins review states:

“Government should continue to support schools to increase progression to A-level physics, especially among female students.”

That is to be welcomed.

An important development is the latest report by the Institute of Physics, which was launched only yesterday. It contains important information on subject choices in secondary schools. Entitled “Closing Doors,” it shows the individual consequences to young people of choosing particular subjects for A-level—in particular, the decision not to study physics closes doors to a wide range of engineering roles. Importantly, the research is undertaken

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on a wide range of subjects: three that are predominantly studied by girls at A-level and identified as such, and three predominantly studied by boys and identified as boys’ subjects. The research shows that is not just in physics that there is a significant failure to challenge gender stereotyping.

Simply cajoling girls to study physics, however, is not an answer; there are wider issues of gender stereotyping in schools. The gender equality duty, introduced by the Equality Act 2006, requires public bodies to have due regard to the need

“to promote equality of opportunity between men and women.”

That also means between girls and boys. Some schools do challenge stereotyping, and we need more research to understand how they do that and what works for students. Schools across the country that have poor results have been analysed by the Institute of Physics, and they need support and help to change and improve.

Professor Perkins argues in recommendation 5 that we should be aiming to inspire 11 to 14-year-olds to become tomorrow’s engineers. However, like the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire, I contend that our efforts to broaden young people’s views of where science can take them must begin at the very least at primary school, if not earlier. Most children form an early view about the kind of careers that are open to them, so focusing on secondary school children is likely to be too little, too late.

We should ensure that all nursery, primary and secondary education is free from gender bias in the roles presented to children. A previous report by the Institute of Physics, “It’s Different for Girls,” outlined how single-sex schools are significantly better than co-educational schools at getting girls into non-traditional subjects. That confirms the vital importance of role models to the young when they are considering careers, as well as the real benefit of someone not feeling like the odd one out if they decide to study a particular subject. At a co-educational school, a girl choosing physics is likely to be in a minority; in a single-sex school that is clearly not a problem. I do not advocate single-sex schools at all, but we must learn why they are getting more girls to study physics than co-educational schools.

Role models are very important, and in Sheffield we have an inspiring one. Ruth Amos is 24 years old and already running her own company.

3.23 pm

Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.

3.33 pm

On resuming—

Meg Munn: Before the suspension, I was about to talk about Ruth Amos, aged 24, who is already running her own company. She designed a product, the StairSteady, for her GCSE resistant materials course, to help people who have difficulty using stairs but do not have the money or space for a stairlift. We should champion stories such as Ruth’s in our schools.

As hon. Members have said today, the Department for Education has a crucial role in ensuring that young people have the necessary skills to pursue a career in engineering. I was concerned to learn that many local schools offer only a generic GCSE, so students are prevented from even considering physics at A-level. The state-funded secondary education sector, including

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academies and free schools, should not seek league table success by opting for so-called easier subjects at GCSE. All must offer and promote the three individual sciences and maths. That should be coupled with an embedded model of careers education in which curriculum learning is linked to a wide range of real-life careers. I do not have time today to cover the woeful state of our careers advice service, but it must be tackled if we are to have any chance of achieving the outcomes to which Perkins rightly aspires.

Of course, a traditional academic approach is not the only way to develop tomorrow’s engineers. Recommendation 10 of the Perkins review rightly stresses the importance of providing élite vocational provision. We have seen the success of that in Sheffield. The university of Sheffield advanced manufacturing research centre with Boeing is focusing on recruiting more female apprentices, with a new cohort joining in April. Sheffield Hallam university’s women in science, engineering and technology team is providing advice and support on how to make that ambition a reality. Furthermore, our brand new university technical college boasts 14% female students in its first year, and deserves credit for that when, on average, only 2% of engineering apprentices are female.

Skills shortages in engineering are a national issue, requiring leadership and co-ordination, and Perkins was right to call for a more joined-up approach. Having worked on the issue for a long time, I am familiar with the plethora of institutes involved in this work and the need to co-ordinate better, but I think it was a mistake for the Government to withdraw all funding from the UK Resource Centre for Women in Science, Engineering and Technology, which was an excellent co-ordinating organisation for all initiatives involving gender. I suggest to the Minister that it is not only important to work across the engineering institutions, but that joining up initiatives in geographical areas might lead to better outcomes.

Andrew Miller: I want to bring to my hon. Friend’s attention work that we are doing in the north-west that emulates the work that she has been involved in with our mutual friend, Dick Caborn, at the advanced manufacturing research centre in Sheffield. Now that we have acquired for the university of Chester the Thornton research centre, previously owned by Shell, the vision is not only to turn that into a new faculty of chemistry and chemical engineering, but to have an industry-focused training and innovation environment that helps address problems in the same way as is happening at Sheffield. It is built on the Catapult model, which we need to grow in this country.

Meg Munn: I thank my hon. Friend for his example of the importance of working across organisations in one geographical area.

In 2011, I edited a pamphlet on women in science, engineering and technology, and following on from that we have developed in Sheffield a STEM strategy group. One initiative has been to give young people the chance to try some hands-on activities with teachers, having the opportunity to talk to university experts about what they can do to support girls into STEM subjects post-16.

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Over the last few years, engagement with employers has improved enormously and they have been integral in developing the apprenticeship programme at the advanced manufacturing research centre. Many employers are active supporters of our new university technical college.

Encouraging girls and women into these areas is not enough if the culture in the workplace does not change. The Perkins review rightly contends that employers must do much more to support people returning to engineering following a career break. Adopting measures such as flexible working and better managed career breaks for maternity leave also benefits employers. For example, Mott MacDonald, an engineering firm in Sheffield, benefited when it allowed Cathy Travers, its most senior female engineer, to work during term time only when her children were young. That adaptability rewarded the firm with loyalty, and it retained a talented and experienced employee.

The best performing companies are often those with diversity high on their agenda. Organisations with a strong diversity and inclusion culture reduce average employee turnover by half, quadruple work force innovation and double customer engagement. The Perkins review tells us that to fuel the long-term pipeline for skilled engineers, we must ensure that all state-funded schools actively promote engineering as a career option for women, but we should not stop there. We need an environment in the engineering sector that welcomes women. Only when all our young people have the opportunity to realise their potential can we ensure that Britain develops the very best of tomorrow’s engineers.

Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair): Thank you for your forbearance with the interruptions. If no other Members wish to speak, I call Mr Iain Wright.

3.40 pm

Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab): May I begin by saying what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Havard? It has been an excellent debate. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller) and for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) and the hon. Member for Warrington South (David Mowat), who, like me, is a chartered accountant—there is nothing wrong with being a chartered accountant.

I particularly want to thank the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff) for securing the debate and advancing his argument in a knowledgeable and refreshingly non-partisan way. I, for one, will be sorry to see him go. He will be missed in the House, and there is much more that he could do in this place to advance the need for more engineers in this country. He was an excellent Select Committee Chair and an excellent Minister. He will be sadly missed.

I also thank Professor John Perkins for his review. What is clear from today’s debate and from the review is the enormous opportunity that we have in this country. From an economic point of view, Britain will create wealth and raise its standards of living by concentrating on high skills and innovation, centred on science, technology, engineering and manufacturing. We have world-beating sectors in areas such as automotives and, as the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire said to me during the Division, we have the second biggest aerospace industry in the world and the biggest in Europe.

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We have fantastic companies such as Rolls-Royce, Boeing and GKN Aerospace. I am particularly pleased that last week it was announced that Boeing will be using GKN as a supplier for its 737 winglet, which is displayed at the moment in the forecourt of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. It is an excellent reiteration of how valuable that supply chain is.

Peter Luff: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and for his generous personal remarks. We also must not forget Airbus, which has given me so much encouragement in pursuing this agenda and which is one of the major contributors to making Britain the second biggest aerospace country in the world.

Mr Iain Wright: Absolutely. I was about to mention how important Airbus was as well. However, there are other sectors; we are not just wings and wheels. We have food and drink manufacturing—the biggest manufacturing sector in the country—as well as construction, life sciences, chemicals and great engineering in the energy sector. There is also a real ambition to have 10% of the global space industry by 2030. Those are all things that we will be using for our competitive advantage in the future.

Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): In JCB, there is also one of the major construction equipment manufacturers in the world. Just last week, it announced 2,500 extra new jobs in Staffordshire, bringing some of its supply chain back to the UK. It is a privately owned company —a world-beating one at that—investing right here in the UK.

Mr Iain Wright: That is certainly something to be encouraged. I want to see how the supply chain of manufacturing can be enhanced to ensure that we can have that reshoring back to the UK as much as possible. We have the need for an economic, competitive edge, but we will also be trying to solve big social issues in the 21st century such as climate change, the transition to a low carbon economy, an ageing population and tackling resource scarcity for food, clean water and energy. All that requires engineering skills, so the ambition must be nothing short of making 21st-century Britain an engineering nation.

However, that enormous opportunity is not being matched with a commensurate supply of engineers coming on stream. As the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire said—I want to reiterate the figures, because they are striking—EngineeringUK states that the UK will need 87,000 people a year at level 4 over the next decade to meet demand, let alone to make sure that we can have expansion. However, the country has seen only about 51,000 and the number of level 3 engineering-related apprenticeships has actually dropped. We have an annual demand of about 69,000 but, as the hon. Gentleman said, the numbers are about a third of that and are falling.

Research by Matchtech in the past couple of weeks showed that three quarters of engineers lacked confidence in the Government’s action to encourage innovation in the UK—that is up from last year—and more than half said that they were willing to leave the UK and find work abroad. Despite the welcome news about economic statistics, 54% of engineers believe that the state of the

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British economy is negatively affecting the industry—up a full 10 percentage points on the previous year. There is an immediate and urgent need to do something about the issue.

There have been four broad themes today and I want to touch on those. Every speaker has mentioned the perception, image and culture of engineering, and they have been right to do so. Britain is the nation of James Watt, Richard Arkwright, Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Frank Whittle, but I fear that this country does not value the status of engineers. It is deeply dispiriting that, when people are asked to name an engineer, the most recognisable in our country is Kevin Webster from “Coronation Street”. That sort of view reinforces stereotypes and prejudices that engineering and manufacturing are often literally backstreet, low skilled and low paid, rather than highly skilled, well paid and innovative.

Andrew Miller: Will my hon. Friend give way?

Mr Iain Wright: I will—as a north-west MP, I think my hon. Friend might have something to say about that.

Andrew Miller: As somebody from Granadaland, I ask who the heck is Kevin Webster?

Mr Iain Wright: In another context, I would be tempted to say, “He’s a popular beat combo, M’lud”, but I will not. In terms of the culture, perception and status of engineers, the issue is not the fault of this or previous Governments. Having said that, I absolutely agree with Sir John Parker, president of the Royal Academy of Engineering, who said:

“I have travelled around in business and seen how other nations organise themselves and tilt policy in favour of their industrial base. At the highest level, an industrial strategy in my view is about giving the right signals to society that industrial activity is very important.”

What is the Minister going to do to help to change perceptions?

I acknowledge, as we have heard this afternoon, that such things as The Big Bang, Tomorrow’s Engineers, See Inside Manufacturing and the Bloodhound supersonic car are valuable initiatives to help change perceptions of engineering and inspire a new generation. However, there is more that can be done and it must be, as the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire said, high profile and sustained to overturn those long-held cultural perceptions. Will the Minister confirm that those initiatives will continue? What other plans does he have to alter the perception of engineering?

Andrew Miller: On a slightly more serious note, I was proud, with the parliamentary and scientific committee, to work with EngineeringUK to bring The Big Bang into Parliament this year. We intend that to be a continuing event to help improve the understanding of our parliamentary colleagues of the importance of engineering. Will both Front-Bench Members commit themselves to engage with that programme in future years?

Mr Iain Wright: I certainly would like to. My hon. Friend mentioned an important point. It should not be about this Government or this Parliament; it should be about looking at how Britain will make its money in the next 30 or 40 years. How can we transcend Parliament and Governments and work together for

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the long-term economic interests of the country to ensure that engineering has a proportionate status in our country?

Key to that, I would suggest, is ensuring that industrial strategy is at the heart of business policy. A moment ago, I mentioned Sir John’s comments that industrial strategy should give the right signals to society. I also suggest that a successful industrial strategy should give the right signals across Government. Business policy and engineering policy should not only reside in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, but be aligned right across Whitehall for the purposes of advancing our country’s long-term economic interests.

However, I have to say—it has been hinted at strongly during today’s debate—that there is a lack of joined-up thinking between industrial strategy and education and skills policy. Schools are not encouraged to prioritise engineering and science, and there is a failure to ensure that engineering is considered at a sufficiently early stage in a child’s education. As a result, as we have heard, many pupils are disillusioned by the time they get to the age of 14 and do not continue science-based subjects that could lead to a career in engineering. Science GCSE has dropped from third place in 2012 to fourth this year; design and technology has slipped from sixth place to ninth.

This is a particular priority of mine. In many cases, teachers have had no experience of the modern engineering plant or factory and are therefore not in a position to encourage pupils to think about a career in engineering. I asked a parliamentary question a couple of weeks ago about the Government’s policy on encouraging industrial placements for teachers and I have to say that I received a woefully complacent answer from the Minister for Schools.

What will this Minister do to ensure that more teachers are made aware of the exciting opportunities available in industry and engineering, so that they can pass on information about those fantastic opportunities to their pupils and, importantly, to their pupils’ parents? Will the Minister ensure that time is made available in the school timetable to allow those industrial placements to take place?

Peter Luff: The hon. Gentleman is making a very important point. Quite often, it is a matter of cost. Schools cannot release teachers for this kind of activity, because they cannot afford the cover required in the classroom. Sometimes it is a resource issue—particularly for schools in the poorest areas, which most need this kind of help.

Mr Iain Wright: I can agree with the hon. Gentleman in many respects, but this is such an important priority that I think that resources have to be made available. The question is how Government, industry and academia work together to do that. Perkins touches on it, but more needs to be done.

Everyone in the debate has mentioned careers guidance. It is woeful. The Select Committee on Education said in its recent report that what the Government have done with careers guidance is regrettable. I am not suggesting that before 2010 it was perfect—I speak as the Minister with responsibility for it before 2010—but the Government’s

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reforms to end face-to-face and impartial information, advice and guidance have seen investment in careers advice plummet and the service to many young people more or less evaporate.

The chances of people receiving good impartial advice about engineering at a sufficiently young age to make informed choices about what subjects to take next and how they can advance are as remote as ever. Will the Minister acknowledge that the Government have made a mistake on this one? What will he do to ensure that all pupils receive high-quality information, advice and guidance that includes, specifically, appropriate information on a career in engineering? Will he put in place an initiative to encourage work experience in industry—in engineering—and more effective collaboration between schools and businesses? That happens haphazardly. It does not happen in a consistent manner, but for the long-term economic interests of this country, it has to.

Andrew Miller: This, of course, is where Professor Perkins agrees with my Select Committee’s recommendations about continuing professional development. The simple reality is that people cannot teach about things or advise about careers that they do not have any knowledge of. We must create that space in the curriculum. If we do not, we will be failing these young people and failing British industry.

Mr Iain Wright: I agree. I think that that is incredibly important for our long-term economic interests.

I also want to touch on what the Government have done with their education reforms. Notwithstanding the welcome changes to the design and technology curriculum, which the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire had a hand in influencing, a lot of what the Government have done has reinforced the perception that engineering, particularly at vocational level, is somehow second rate.

The downgrading of the engineering diploma by the Secretary of State for Education was a colossal mistake. I hope that the Minister will acknowledge that. The downgrading consolidates the perception that somehow engineering is second rate. The Royal Academy of Engineering has expressed concern that the attainment and accountability systems that schools are judged on favour a narrow set of academic qualifications over vocational and practical-based ones. Again, what will the Minister do to alter accountability systems to provide incentives for schools to prioritise engineering? They need to prioritise engineering.

The third point that I want to mention is gender. This has rightly been raised as a key issue in the debate. The lack of female engineers is a very important issue. Perkins stated that the UK has the lowest proportion of female engineers in the EU—barely one third of the number that Latvia has. Fewer than 10% of engineering professionals are women, and fewer than one in 30 of those starting an engineering apprenticeship are female.

There are great initiatives in place, such as ScienceGrrl, but the culture that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley mentioned is important. I was speaking at a round table of industrialists recently. I said, “You’re cutting off half your potential work force by not encouraging women into engineering. What are you doing about that?” They said, “Well, we provide them with their own toilets.” That is the sort of cultural issue on which we need to work together so as to advance, so

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what else can be done? We need to work together across Government, industry and education to enhance opportunities for all the population, not just half.

My fourth point is about deliverability. Perkins has 22 recommendations. The hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire said that there is an urgent need to have a marketing campaign. I think that we need to go further than that—we need delivery mechanisms. I would be very interested to hear how the Minister will ensure that every one of those recommendations can be implemented.

I will finish by reiterating my very warm thanks to the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate today and to Professor Perkins. The final words of his review are both telling and ambitious:

“There have been dozens of Government reports, select committees and independent reviews into the future of engineering skills over the past 150 years. I would go further. It is time for concerted action by the profession, industry and Government, to achieve the goals for engineering which we all share.”

The House has demonstrated today that it thinks that a key priority. I hope that we can transcend party politics and work together to make Britain an engineering nation.

3.55 pm

The Minister for Skills and Enterprise (Matthew Hancock): It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Havard, and to respond to an extremely important debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff) and pay tribute to him, not only for bringing this matter to the attention of the House today and the excellent debate that we have had, but for his work over the last year or so in this area, which has been conducted at an impressive pace and with impressive vivacity. His tenacity in sticking to this agenda and driving it forward has been extremely valuable to me as a Minister, to the Government as a whole and, no doubt, to the future of engineering.

We have had a very positive debate, broadly speaking. I will come specifically in a moment to the implementation of all 22 recommendations in the Perkins review. I join other Members in paying tribute to John Perkins for the excellent work he has done and the considered and reasonable way in which he took forward the review, consulting extremely widely. The review has gone down very well in the engineering profession and beyond, and in the education establishment, which is important too. However, one of the most important things about the implementation of the review is that it is a review to be implemented by all, not just by Government. The Government have a very big role to play in doing that, and we will take forward all those recommendations that refer to the Government, but it is not a matter only for them. It is also necessary for the engineering profession to come together, and I will set out a couple of ways in which we plan to ensure that that happens.

Let me respond to a couple of specific questions that were raised. John Perkins did base his report on discussions with marketing and communication experts. He consulted people in the marketing world. Indeed, the argument that a marketing programme is needed and the recommendations that my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire pointed to, which he thinks need strengthening, were based on discussions with marketing and communication professionals. I just wanted to put

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that on the record. On the point my hon. Friend made about the defence industries, the report chose to be cross-sector rather than sector-specific, so that is probably why there is not as much focus on the defence industries as he might have liked.

Let me deal with a couple of other specific points that were made. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) referred to the “Closing Doors” report, which is also an extremely important report. The Institute of Physics has produced a very good piece of work. The figures are stark. There are a record number of applications for and entries to GCSE physics by girls in 2013. There has been a 32% increase in GCSE entries for physics over the last three years, and there are a record 73,000 entries by girls. However, of those who get an A*, 49% of boys go on to study physics at A-level but only 19% of girls do so. There is a huge missed opportunity, which can be realised by changing the culture, as the hon. Lady has said, so that physics A-level is seen as a qualification for everybody. The record number taking GCSE is good news, but we must keep driving that progress up the age range so that we get a commensurate increase in A-levels and university applications from girls. We must ensure that the work done to increase applications at GCSE does not tail off.

The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller) made a strong argument about cross-party agreement, which is rife, and the importance of the new 14 to 16-year-old engineering qualifications. I was at the Unilever headquarters in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency—

Andrew Miller: It is not in mine.

Matthew Hancock: It must be next to the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. I join him in paying tribute to Matthew Harrison at the Royal Academy of Engineering for his excellent work in the area. My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) argued in favour of improving the status and cultural position of engineers in our society. We should articulate as often as possible the point that pay for engineers is rising and that engineering is one of the most lucrative career options. To those who are considering what career to go into and who read Hansard—as I am sure they will—the message should go out loud and clear that engineering pays extremely well. If that is what they are after, why not look towards it?

The positive, cross-party approach taken by the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) was exactly the right one. We are dealing with a long-standing problem, which has improved in the past few years but needs a long-term and cross-party solution. He listed all the sectors and areas in which engineering can do someone proud, and I will not repeat what he has said. I would, however, add computer science and the high-tech end, which is extremely exciting. Developments in that area are moving apace. I am not surprised that the hon. Gentleman took a cross-party approach, because he came slightly unstuck when he tried to score a couple of political points. He said that there had been a decline in GCSE science, but that is because there has been a sharp rise in the number of people taking three sciences as separate subjects, which is a more rigorous approach to science. I would not use that statistic in future, if I were him.

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I agree with the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley on the need for more inspirational careers advice from people who are passionate about their career. That is exactly the way we want to go. We all agree that Connexions did not fulfil that role particularly effectively, and the Government are passionate about getting inspirational people to motivate young people to take up careers in which they can do well.

Andrew Miller: I totally agree with the Minister on the importance of inspirational teachers. To help him avoid slipping into partisan language, does he agree that his comments about GCSE physics versus A-level physics underline the point that I have made several times during the debate about continuing professional development? Far too many young women who may be interested in science are encouraged to pursue medicine rather than focusing on physics and mathematics as the logical way forward, which will help them even if they do subsequently want to go into medicine.

Matthew Hancock: There is a lot in what the hon. Gentleman says. The example of medicine is important for engineering, because 30 years ago medicine was almost entirely male dominated, but the culture was changed and the majority of those who go into medicine are now women. We need to have the same sort of cultural change in engineering, so medicine is a valid example. Not least as a result of the success of Tomorrow’s Engineers week, which the Government sponsor, the proportion of young people who say they would consider a career in engineering has risen by about 10%, and there has also been an increase in the proportion of parents who say they would like their children to consider a career in engineering.

Meg Munn: I know that the Minister is not responsible for education, but he has mentioned parents, whose views on the matter are influential. What is being done to ensure that in schools primarily led by parents, such as free schools and academies, enough of this work is going on? Although my hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston is correct about career development for teachers, we need parents to be on board too.

Matthew Hancock: That is an important point, which is part of a wider culture change. As a Minister in the Department for Education I am also responsible for the education end of the subject, along with the other Ministers in that Department. On the question of having an impact on the need for engineers, applications to study engineering at university have increased by 20% over the past three years, and in the past year the number of people in engineering apprenticeships has increased by 10%. Things are moving in the right direction, but I do not deny that there is much more to do, hence the Perkins report.

We accept the Perkins report, and we will take forward all the Government actions within it. It is important to set it in a wider context, however. That starts at an early age with stronger computing in the national curriculum from the age of eight and more of an emphasis on maths, inspirational careers advice from 12 years old onwards, new engineering qualifications for those aged

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14 to 16, the introduction of tech levels and the tech bacc for 16 to 19-year-olds, the increase in take-up of A-level physics that we have talked about—we need to do more work on that to improve the gender balance—and the increase in engineering degrees and apprenticeships, not only at level 2 and the technician end but all the way up through higher apprenticeships. Members will have heard the announcement in the autumn statement of an additional 20,000 higher apprenticeships focused on engineering and technology. Within the lifespan of education from primary school onwards there is a focus at every level on improving rigour, improving responsiveness to the needs of employers and increasing the proportion of students who go into science, technology, engineering and maths. It is in that context that the Perkins report sits.

I agree wholeheartedly on the need for better communication, and the engineering profession has come together in the realisation of the importance of communication during the past couple of years. I have had many discussions with the leaders of various engineering industries on the implementation of Perkins. There is enthusiasm for it and there are mechanisms for it, but we need to make sure that those continue. The Big Bang Fair, which came to Parliament, is funded by Government. That funding has helped it to inspire thousands, but there is undoubtedly much more that we can do.

Given the shortage of time, I will write to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire setting out in detail the Government response to all 22 of the recommendations, and I will make public a copy of the letter. I want to ensure that we drive the recommendations forward. I have no doubt that we will continue to debate the subject so that we can maintain the cross-party, cross-Government national campaign to ensure that the shortage of engineers is dealt with and the supply chain is wide open.

Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab): I applaud the Minister’s effort and his enthusiasm. When does he imagine that a Minister with responsibility for this area, from whichever party, will be from an engineering background?

Matthew Hancock: As a former economist, I apologise for not fitting the criteria myself. But no doubt, with more engineers coming through, there will one day be the opportunity for that to happen.

Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair): I am not sure whether economics is social engineering, but thank you for the debate, Minister. Do you, Mr Luff, wish to say anything for 30 seconds?

Peter Luff: I was not expecting the opportunity.

Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair): I am giving you the opportunity; you can grab it or not.

4.10 pm

Peter Luff: I repeat my gratitude to all colleagues who took part in this important debate and to the Minister for his capable summing up. I look forward to the implementation plan with particular enthusiasm, because it is important, but I must emphasise that it is not

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something for simply the Government to implement; the engineering community has a responsibility as well, particularly with the marketing campaign, about which I spoke. The task is not just for the Government but the whole community.

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UK Relations with Ukraine

Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair): I will not start the clock at the moment, because I would like to say something before we begin. I have the Minister and the hon. Gentleman in place. May I appeal to anyone with any electronic gadgets who entered the Chamber since I started to please ensure that they are on silent, because I do not want any interruptions from those devices? May I also make how we will conduct the debate and how I will chair it very clear? The debate is between a Member and the Minister in a very short space of time. There is great interest in the discussion from the public. I am determined to protect the Minister’s time and the Member’s time, to ensure that we have the debate properly and without interference from the Public Gallery or elsewhere. I have agreed that Ms Latham can take part of Mr Whittingdale’s time and speak in the debate. I appeal to other Members to make interventions cogent and short, should you wish to make them. I intend to give the Minister at least 10 minutes to reply.

4.12 pm

Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con): Thank you, Mr Havard, for your guidance on the debate. I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to speak about UK relations with Ukraine. I requested the debate in the aftermath of a decision by the Ukrainian Government not to proceed with the signing of the association agreement, but the topic has become much more urgent in the past few days. A large number of Ukrainians are in Parliament square as I speak, but they are small in number compared with the thousands taking part in the Euromaidan demonstration in Independence square. At the weekend, something approaching 1 million people in Ukraine demonstrated their unhappiness at the turn of events most recently. We have watched the events with growing concern.

Yesterday, there were reports that the Ukrainian Government had taken a decision to use force to disperse the protesters; happily, that has not happened. However, there have been raids on the offices of the opposition and there is no doubt that the situation remains tense and unstable. I hope that the Minister in his response will be able to say something about the latest information we have; I understand that talks have now started between opposition groups, civil society and the Ukrainian Government, which must be welcome, but we are by no means away from the danger that force might be used. I want to return to that later in my remarks.

I had hoped that the debate would take place in happier circumstances. I declare an interest: I am the chairman of the British-Ukraine all-party group; I am a director of the British Ukrainian Society; I was an observer in Kiev for the elections to the Verkhovna Rada earlier last year; and in September I attended the European strategy conference in Yalta.

At the conference, which took place only 12 weeks ago, representatives of all major parties in Ukraine were present. I heard both President Yanukovych and Prime Minister Azarov speak and state very clearly the absolute determination of Ukraine to go down the European path and to sign an association agreement at Vilnius. That strategy had the support of all the parties of Ukraine with the exception of the Communist party.

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Of course there were always going to be obstacles. We are aware that Yulia Tymoshenko is still in prison, which was a serious issue that needed to be resolved. There were concerns about the way in which the judicial process had operated in imprisoning her and the claim that it was “selective justice”. There were wider concerns about the level of corruption that still exists in Ukraine and the abuse of monopoly power. But there appeared to be a real determination to make necessary changes. Measures were being tabled in the Rada to meet the requirements of signing that association agreement. It appeared that there might be a way forward whereby Mrs Tymoshenko could perhaps go for medical treatment abroad, and she herself had said that she did not want her situation to prevent the signature of the association agreement.

We always knew that the one obstacle, the biggest opponent, would be Russia. I was in Yerevan, a little while before Yalta, just after the decision had been taken by Armenia not to proceed with the signature of an association agreement. Without question, that decision was taken because of the enormous pressure that was put on the Armenian Government by Russia, in particular over the security problems that the Armenians face and the threat to withdraw security guarantees. But it appeared that Ukraine would stand up to the pressure, despite the economic measures being taken by Russia—import controls and tariff barriers. At Yalta, Ukraine expressed an absolute determination that it would proceed with the agreement. It was therefore a real surprise and a great sadness when the President came back and announced that instead of signing the association agreement in Vilnius, Ukraine would seek closer relations with Russia. I suspect that he cannot have anticipated the reaction to that announcement.

We saw the protests begin in Independence square, and instead of diminishing, they have, if anything, strengthened. Anybody who has seen the film footage of the violence committed about 10 days ago by riot police against innocent, peaceful protesters will have been deeply shocked by it.

Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate on human rights day. Does he agree that we would be interested to hear from the Minister what pressure the British Government can bring to bear on Ukraine to secure a strong human rights record in future, with a free press and the end of the holding of political prisoners, when the leverage of the EU association agreement is no longer a card to be played?

Mr Whittingdale: I shall return to both issues; I agree with the hon. Lady that those are desirable objectives, but there is a more immediate, pressing concern about how the protesters are treated. Their human rights are important at this time. We must not see a repetition of the kind of violence that has been committed by special forces against people. The scenes of people lying on the ground being beaten with batons by 50 or more riot policemen as they ran past were wholly unacceptable. Concerns have been expressed that provocateurs have been placed among the protesters, and that that may precipitate a decision to declare some kind of state of emergency. All of that would mean that Ukraine would

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slip backwards. I want to hear from the Minister a strong message from the British Government that human rights and peaceful protest must be respected, and that we cannot see any kind of repetition of the violence that has taken place in the past few days.

Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): As someone who was with the hon. Gentleman in Yerevan when we heard the news, I know exactly where he is coming from. Does he agree that the UK Government have persistently and consistently supported Ukrainian EU accession, so we have a moral obligation to those suffering in Ukraine at the moment? Just as the sound of the crowds of protesters outside this building can be heard in the Chamber, the sounds arising from Independence square must be heard across the world, especially in Europe.

Mr Whittingdale: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is right that representatives of the EU and the United States Administration are in Kiev and will do what they can to calm the situation and find a way forward.

I understand that through the intervention of former Presidents Kravchuk, Kuchma and Yushchenko, talks are taking place with civil society groups and the opposition. That is certainly a much more promising way forward than the reported decision to use force, but the crisis is by no means past. It is important that clear messages go out from European Governments. In particular, I look to my right hon. Friend the Minister to make it clear that we cannot tolerate any violent activity of that kind.

Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab): As a fellow member of the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine, does the hon. Gentleman agree that although the Ukrainian Government are under a huge amount of pressure, particularly from Russia, they will never make progress through repression and the suppression of human rights and democratic values?

Mr Whittingdale: I agree entirely. I believe that Ukraine wishes for a free society and a democratic future. I regret the actions of the last few days, which are horribly reminiscent of the dark past, but I am still optimistic for the future of Ukraine, as I will mention at the end of my remarks.

Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I, too, congratulate the hon. Gentleman on this timely debate. Last year, on a NATO Parliamentary Assembly visit to Kiev, some members of our delegation had the opportunity to visit former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that her continuing imprisonment means that Ukraine cannot move forward? If political repression involves imprisoning political opponents, that is a major impediment to Ukraine’s moving forward.

Mr Whittingdale: There is not time, nor would it be helpful, to discuss whether Mrs Tymoshenko is guilty of the offences of which she is accused, but the right hon. Gentleman is right that her imprisonment was unquestionably seen by the European Union as an obstacle, and efforts were made to find a way through it. I was optimistic that a solution could be found, and it might still be, but Mrs Tymoshenko has made it clear that in her view, the important priority is to sign the association agreement.

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I turn to the longer-term challenges. The immediate challenge is to ensure that there is no more violence, but in the longer term, we must look towards helping Ukraine. There is an immediate economic crisis. The country is massively in debt, and economic threats from Russia have undoubtedly played a part in the decision. We must offer Ukraine some prospect of assistance if it decides to resume the European path.

There is also the political challenge. Elections will be held in due course. It is essential that they should be free and fair, and that all the leading candidates should have the opportunity to take part. Most importantly, the reforms that were under way, including reforms to the judicial process and reforms to root out corruption, must be continued. If those things happen, we can eventually look forward to what the Ukrainian Government tell us is still their ambition: a closer relationship with Europe.

These are exceedingly perilous days, but we have cause to be optimistic, most of all because of the bravery of the Ukrainian people, which they are displaying as we speak, in bitterly cold weather and under the threat and gaze of riot police with their batons and shields. They have not been intimidated. They are still there.

Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): There is a vibrant Ukrainian community in Huddersfield, next to my constituency. I look forward to celebrating Ukrainian Christmas with them yet again in the first weekend of January. Recently, we have been campaigning for recognition of the Holodomor as a genocide. Does my hon. Friend agree that we must continue to urge the Foreign Office to do everything that it can to stop the immediate violence and find a long-term solution? So many Ukrainians in the United Kingdom are deeply concerned about the situation there at the moment.

Mr Whittingdale: I agree entirely. That is demonstrated by the large number of Ukrainians who have come to listen to this debate.

I hope that the Ukrainian Government will stand by their assurance and assertion that they still see their future in closer relations with Europe. It is for the Ukrainian people to decide their future, but that is what the Government say. Particularly given what has happened and the bravery being shown by the Ukrainian people, now is the time when we must support them. We must not turn our back on them.

4.24 pm

Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): I am pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Havard; thank you for allowing me to speak. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) for allowing me to take part in this important debate and for securing it.

Some Members may know that I have tried to raise awareness of the Ukrainian Holodomor and spoken on several occasions on behalf of the Ukrainian people in this country, who also asked me to speak in this debate. Given my friendship with the local community, it goes without saying that I was shocked by the unfolding of the current social and political situation in Ukraine. Like many others, I was optimistic when it was announced that the Yanukovych Administration was to sign the association and deep and comprehensive free trade agreements with the EU. I thought that it might herald

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a new era of greater respect for human rights in the country. Although I do not presume to pre-empt the Ukrainian Government’s rationale for their U-turn in signing the agreements, I cannot ignore the Yanukovych Administration’s draconian response to the peaceful protests in Kiev.

On 24 November, British television news was full of images of peaceful protesters on Independence square, holding aloft the Ukrainian flag alongside that of the European Union. Those people were out not to cause trouble but gently to persuade their Government to change their mind about signing the agreement. Western media outlets have shown in their coverage of events that the Government’s response to those peaceful demonstrators was to deploy tear gas and truncheons against them. In clashes between protesters and the police on 1 December, an estimated seven were hospitalised.

Coupled with the 35 arrests that took place that day, it indicates a Government who are prepared when threatened to use inhumane and draconian forms of repression to quell dissent. That response seems to have exacerbated the situation. The protesters, who were initially keen to resolve their differences with the Government peacefully, have now resorted to acts of violence, including the felling of a statue of Lenin in the capital. It is clear from such actions that a section of the population in Ukraine is keen to turn away from the influence of Moscow and towards a future in the European Union.

Last night’s events have also made it plain that relations between the police, the Government and the demonstrators have continued to deteriorate. The headquarters of the country’s Fatherland party, the opposition party of ousted and imprisoned former Prime Minister Tymoshenko, were reportedly stormed by riot police, and protesters in Kiev were encircled by police.

With that in mind, I hope that Members here will join me in condemning the violence against the Ukrainian people in Kiev and lend their support to the EU’s efforts to promote communication between Ukraine’s people, the Ukrainian Government and the EU High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy for the European Union, who is visiting the country today.

4.28 pm

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire): I am grateful to you for chairing this important debate, Mr Havard. I am particularly grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) for securing this debate and for his continued engagement and interest in Ukraine and his support for democratic reform there. Given the fast-changing events on the ground, this is a timely and necessary debate.

Ukraine is an important friend and partner to the UK. We work closely together across a broad range of international issues and multilateral forums, and more so in the light of Ukraine’s chairmanship in office of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. In fact, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe was in Kiev only last week to attend the OSCE ministerial council. We therefore welcome the latest news that President Yanukovych today agreed to round-table talks with three former Presidents, among others.

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This Government have championed Ukraine’s closer integration with the EU, where it has the potential to make a significant contribution to stability, prosperity and competitiveness, and we will continue to support Ukraine’s European aspirations, including eventual membership of the EU, provided that the appropriate criteria are met and provided that it is what the Ukrainian people themselves want.

However, we have been watching recent developments in Ukraine with deep and genuine concern. Several hundred thousand Ukrainian citizens—perhaps more—have taken to the streets to express their views on Ukraine’s future. Also, troubling reports have emerged: of police violence in response to peaceful demonstrations; of journalists being beaten and possibly being deliberately targeted by security forces; and of disproportionate force being used. These things are completely unacceptable.

My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe raised his strong concerns at these developments in Kiev last week. On 3 December, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, together with his NATO counterparts, issued a statement condemning the excessive use of force in Ukraine, and he called on all parties to refrain from provocations and violence. NATO members also stressed that a sovereign, independent and stable Ukraine, which is firmly committed to democracy and the rule of law, is a key to Euro-Atlantic security.

We have made it clear that, particularly as the chairman-in-office of the OSCE is Ukrainian, it is essential that the Ukrainian Government demonstrate—through actions as well as words—their deep commitment to OSCE norms and values. We welcome the Ukrainian authorities’ commitment to a thorough investigation of police violence. Those responsible for such violence must be held to account.

We firmly believe that the way forward is through constructive engagement and dialogue, and we continue to encourage the Ukrainian Government and opposition to enter into early discussions. When my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe visited Kiev on 5 December, he visited Maidan, or Independence square, and saw for himself the peaceful nature of the protests. He also met opposition leaders and encouraged them to engage seriously with ideas to identify ways to defuse the situation and map out a peaceful route forward.

This House is aware that the protests in Ukraine were triggered by the decision of the Ukrainian Government to put preparations for signature of the EU-Ukraine association agreement on hold. As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has made clear to this House and in public statements, this Government’s view is that the Ukrainian Government’s decision represents a missed opportunity.

Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): Have the Government had any opportunity to make an assessment of what measures the Russians may have brought into play to pressurise the Ukrainian Government to change their approach to this important matter?

Mr Swire: Not to date, but we—together with our EU partners—had hoped that the EU-Ukraine relationship would enter a new and fundamentally different phase following signature of the association agreement, which

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includes a deep and comprehensive free trade area, at the Eastern Partnership summit in Vilnius on 28 and 29 November. What we have made a study of is the benefit that the agreement would bring to Ukraine and Ukrainian companies. It would give Ukrainian companies access to a market of 500 million consumers. Reliable studies have shown that GDP and wages would rise, and closer economic integration through the deep and comprehensive free trade area would be a powerful stimulant to Ukraine’s economic growth.

Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD): I am fully supportive both of the people in the Ukraine and their democratic rights, and of the policy of Her Majesty’s Government here. However, does the Minister accept that there is some understandable nervousness—I can see it in the Government of Ukraine—that to suddenly change the relationship with the EU to one where there are much more open trading agreements could force tariffs in relation to the trade with Russia, and that therefore the right way forward, given where we are now, is to encourage negotiation between all the parties so that there is an agreed policy, with Russia, Ukraine and the EU growing together in the future?

Mr Swire: My hon. Friend the Member for Maldon mentioned the economic troubles in Ukraine at the moment and it is our assessment that an early benefit would be brought about by Ukraine signing this agreement, which would far outweigh any negative impact in resulting loss of trade—as he sees it—with Russia. Approximation to EU legislation, standards and norms will result in higher-quality products and improved services for citizens, and will improve Ukraine’s ability to compete in international markets.

As I say, my hon. Friend mentioned the economic challenges that Ukraine faces at the moment. I hope that the Ukrainian authorities can reach an agreement with the International Monetary Fund on a new stand-by arrangement. That is in Ukraine’s hands, and it is in Ukraine’s interests to entrench fiscal and financial stability by advancing structural reforms. Doing so will increase Ukraine’s ability to withstand external pressures.

The Government and, I am sure, Members from all parties in this House look to the Ukrainian Government—working collaboratively with opposition parties, civil society and business—to show the necessary political will and commitment to enable signature of the association agreement to go ahead in the near future. That means continuing with the reforms that are already under way, and ensuring that the parliamentary elections that will be rerun on 15 December are conducted in accordance with international standards.

When Ukraine is ready to sign, under this Government or a future Government, it will find the UK to be a willing partner that is ready to lend support and assistance on the road to a closer relationship with the EU. As the Prime Minister and other EU leaders made clear to President Yanukovych at Vilnius, the EU’s door remains open; it is Ukraine’s choice whether to walk through it.

Before I close, let me touch on Russia’s role. We have all seen and read reports about the pressure that Russia has been bringing to bear on Ukraine and many of its businesses. Any such pressure is unacceptable. In the modern world, every country should respect the sovereignty of others and their right to enter into the agreements

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that they consider appropriate. And I hope that Russia can understand that this is not a zero-sum game. The association agreement will help Ukraine to modernise and transform its institutions and economy. Ukraine will become more prosperous. That is in everyone’s interests, including Russia’s.

We continue to follow developments in Ukraine very closely, and we are in touch with the EU institutions and with other member states. As my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon will be aware, Baroness Ashton, Vice-President of the European Commission and EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, has travelled to Kiev and will encourage all parties to engage in constructive dialogue. And as my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe set out in his written ministerial statement earlier today, the Government continue to urge all parties to remain calm and to avoid actions that could lead to an escalation of the situation or the restriction of personal freedoms.

Mr Whittingdale: I very much welcome the assurances that the Minister has given. I hope that it will be unnecessary for him to do so, but should the situation deteriorate, I hope he will make it clear that if violence were to be used, those responsible will be held personally responsible for it. In addition, there are already some concerns about the fate of some of the people who were arrested in the original protests about 10 days ago and who seem to have disappeared. There is obviously concern about their well-being and I hope that we will apply pressure to try to ensure that they are safe.

Mr Swire: My hon. Friend is absolutely right—anyone who has orchestrated any sort of violence in contravention of the basic norms and human rights should be held to account publicly, with the full weight of the law holding them to account for their actions.

Once again, I thank my hon. Friend for his continued interest in Ukraine and the surrounding region, and other Members of the House for their contributions today.

Mr Dai Havard (in the Chair): Before we finish, may I say thank you very much for the way in which the debate has been conducted? It is being broadcast and webcast, and the fact that it was conducted with dignity and quality gives it an additional power. So thank you very much for your co-operation. With all the disruption, I intend to allow the next debate to run until 5.10 pm. We will see how the discourse takes us.

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Mindfulness in Education

4.39 pm

Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Mindfulness is a form of meditation. I first came across meditation in 1987, when I was a schoolteacher. The school was about to be examined and the staff were highly stressed, so the head teacher called in the school nurse and she gave meditation lessons to the whole staff, including the support staff. It worked wonders. I then took the lessons I had learned from meditation to my classroom in a primary school and taught it to children in classes of up to 39. In fact, on occasions, I would use it in front of 300 children in the school assembly. I have maintained my interest over the years. More recently, I came across the mindfulness form of meditation.

I have tabled hundreds of questions on this subject—the Minister herself will have answered some—and the answers are quite disturbing. One stated that 32.3% of 16 to 25-year-olds have one or more psychological conditions. Another, answered last week, on the incidence of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, stated that 2% of the population under 16 have severe ADHD and 9% are mild to moderate.

In 1991, there were 7 million prescriptions for antidepressants, but by 2011 that had increased to 49 million—a 500% increase in the use of antidepressants. Studies in the United States show that 8% of children who use games consoles are clinically addicted to them. The World Health Organisation predicts that, by 2030, the biggest health burden on the planet, ahead of cancer and heart disease, will be mental health. Our children are in health crisis.

WH Auden described the age we live in as the age of anxiety. What are the causes of this pressure, anxiety and stress? There are many contenders, advertising being one. Oliver James, the UK journalist and psychologist, maintains that mental health is undermined by advertising. A parliamentary question answered last week stated that a child will, in their 18 years of childhood, look at 180,000 adverts. The purpose of an advert is to make people unhappy with what they have, so that they will buy what is being presented to them.

Other people say that information overload is the problem. When I was growing up we had three TV channels, but now there are 3,000. We also have texts, Facebook, adverts and digital media. Others say it is digital distraction: computers, the iPad and iPod, the iPhone and the iMac, TV, video and games consoles. Taking people away from face-to-face engagements and putting them in front of screens results in two things: first, they do not pick up the verbal cues from conversation and contact with another human; and, secondly, they do not pick up on the non-verbal cues from facial expressions. That is interfering with neural pathways and relaying those neural pathways.

The speed of modern life needs to be considered. We are running ever faster, but we still seem to be in the same place, as the Red Queen said to Alice. We live in a 24/7 society.

Is the problem the testing? We test children at four, seven, 11 and 14 in standard assessment tests, at 16 for their GCSEs, 17 for AS-levels, 18 for A-levels and at 21 for their degree. We are the most tested nation on earth. Is the problem peer pressure, which has amplified?

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In my day, people had a ring of 10 mates and we compared ourselves to them. If there were fights or a bullying incident, they were forgotten the next day. However, peer pressure is now amplified by the digital media, with Twitter and Facebook.

Some say the problem might be chemicals in the food or pollution. However, whether it is advertising, information overload, digital distraction, testing, peer pressure or chemicals, we have a crisis in attention in this country. Heidegger predicted this in the 1950s, saying that the

“tide of technological revolution”

might

“so captivate, bewitch, dazzle, and beguile man that calculative thinking may someday come to be...the only way of thinking.”

That would come at the loss of

“meditative thinking”.

There are different ways of thinking. Calculative thinking has over-dominated meditative thinking and is having an adverse effect in our schools. There is a crisis in mental health and education, and a crisis in society.

Educational attainment is key. It is what the Minister will be judged on, with regard to her portfolio, and what her Department and the Government will be judged on. Educational attainment has dipped. In the programme for international student assessment results, last week or the week before, all nations and regions of the UK dipped, some more than others. The PISA tests, which are done at age 15, are one of the key tests, which I have mentioned, the others being GCSE, A-levels, degree and postgraduate. A third of our young people are in crisis.

Educational attainment comes down to attention and focus. If people can pay attention and focus, they can learn. William James, one of America’s foremost philosophers and the father of American psychology, said:

“The faculty of voluntarily bringing back a wandering attention over and over again, is the very root of judgement, character and will. No one is compos sui—

I think that means “a master of himself”—

“if he have it not. An education which should improve this faculty would be the education par excellence. But it is easier to define this ideal than to give practical instructions for bringing it about.”

Mindfulness could provide the practical instructions for bringing about that excellence in education.

The crisis of attention could be improved by mindfulness. Mindfulness is training in concentration and self-awareness that has been shown to support top performance and good mental health. Mindfulness is a form of mental training that develops sustained attention. Mindfulness training involves cultivating the capacity to attend to whatever is happening in ways that are purposeful and well balanced. It is the ability to be in the present moment, not being chased by our past or worried by our future so that we cannot concentrate on the present.

Mindfulness is about living in the present moment and releasing the mind from the habitual ruminative patterns that lead to worry, depression and burn-out and it enables more intuitive and creative responses to new challenges. Given the centrality of attention in all mental functioning, such training has significant

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implications for mental and physical health, for self-regulation and for education. These gifts are there for the taking. I do not think these gifts have been fully explored by my Government—the previous Labour Government—or this Government, but they are worthy of investigation.

Mindfulness can bring about excellence—not just in education, but in sport. It is used across the world, for example, by the best sports teams in the Olympics, in basketball, swimming and diving. It is used by the most creative industries the world has ever known, Google and Apple, which provide mindfulness training for their top creatives in America.

Ariana Huffington, of “The Huffington Post”, is a big advocate of mindfulness in business; she calls it the third matrix. She will address Parliament on the subject in May next year. Mindfulness has been used by British companies, such as Transport for London, and by local authorities, including Gwynedd authority in north Wales. It is used by the American military—this is not fluffy nonsense—which has given $159 million to develop mindfulness in the training of its armed forces, because it realises that a soldier who is not aware of the present moment can cause catastrophe, diplomatic incidents and further bloodshed by a reaction instead of a response.

Mindfulness is also being used here in Parliament. There is a mindfulness group of parliamentarians, with 50 Members of Parliament and Lords who have had training in mindfulness—hopefully, another 50 next year. It is being introduced into the Welsh Assembly Government by a Conservative Assembly Member, Darren Millar.

Mindfulness has broad support, broad appeal and broad usage. The roots of mindfulness are in the eastern traditions, but it has been meticulously tested by the rigour of western science over the past 30 years by people such as Jon Kabat-Zinn, who has pioneered mindfulness for the past 40 years. He visited London in March 2013 and spoke to No. 10 advisers about mindfulness, creativity and enterprise. He addressed shadow Ministers for Health and Education. I am pushing that agenda, and I hope that other Labour colleagues and shadow Ministers will be taking up mindfulness. Jon Kabat-Zinn addressed civil servants, and mindfulness is now being introduced for civil servants in the Department of Health. There is also Professor Richard Davidson, who is a top neuroscientist who maps and measures the brain and the impact that stress and depression have on it.

It is not only American researchers and scientists who are exploring mindfulness; a wealth of home-grown scientists are doing so, too. I particularly praise Professor Mark Williams, who is watching the debate from the Public Gallery. In 2004, along with Zindel Segal and John Teasdale, he was the scientist who convinced the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to accept mindfulness in the Department of Health. That decision has brought tremendous benefits to patients and people suffering mental illness. Mark will retire in the next one or two years—he has had more retirements than Frank Sinatra—but, before he fully retires, he wants to pass on the benefits experienced in the Department of Health to the Department for Education. I join him on that crusade.

There are centres of excellence in the UK. At the university of Exeter, Professor Willem Kuyken is developing mindfulness in schools. Bangor university in Wales is

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the training ground for mindfulness—not just for the whole of the UK, but for the whole of Europe. It has trained 4,000 professionals, 700 of them to master’s degree level. There is also the Oxford Mindfulness Centre at the university of Oxford. Felicia Huppert is a well-being expert at the university of Cambridge. The benefits that accrue from mindfulness include improved attention and focus, and less impulsive and risky behaviour.

I was a teacher for 15 years, and I was the deputy head of a large Catholic primary school with 550 pupils. When I went down to the infants department and asked the teachers the biggest thing that they expected from a child coming in at the age of three or four, they did not say the ability to read, write or do numbers; what they wanted is for that child to be able to sit still, be curious and be willing to learn. To do that, the child needs attention and focus, which mindfulness can supply.

I have some materials for the Minister to look at, including material on the .b programme, which is being implemented in secondary schools across the UK. There is also material on the paws .b programme, which is being introduced in primary schools across the UK and beyond. The programmes have been developed by academics, neuroscientists, practising teachers and psychologists, and they are being piloted as we speak. The .b programme is the most widely used mindfulness curriculum in the UK. The science adopted by NICE for the national health service has been used to inform the debate in the education sector.

I pay tribute to the Prime Minister’s work on well-being. He took some big, bold steps back in 2010 when he instructed the Office for National Statistics to develop a well-being index to measure well-being, including the well-being of children. He has taken a principled stand on advertising to children and the sexualisation of young children through advertising. I pay tribute to the work of the previous Labour Government in introducing social and emotional education. Indeed, the NICE breakthrough in 2004 was under a Labour Government and followed funding by the Wales Office in the 1990s.

The well-being of our children is non-party political; it is one of those issues such as national security and care for the elderly on which we should come together across the political divide, especially when we are faced with a crisis in which every third young person is experiencing poor mental health.

I have a few questions for the Minister, as well as the homework that I am setting her. Will she please consider making mindfulness training available in all teacher training colleges in England? I will be asking the other nations of the UK to do the same in their teacher training institutions. Such a measure would help individual teachers in their personal practice, but, more importantly, a primary school teacher will teach 1,000 children over the course of their 30 or 40-year career. The knowledge that each teacher passes on will help those children for the rest of their life.

Mindfulness is a life skill, and if we can teach it from the age of four to the age of 18, those young people will be well prepared for life. I also ask that mindfulness be made available to the 440,000 teachers who are currently teaching—I think there are an extra 460,000 teaching assistants and ancillary staff. Let them have access to mindfulness training for themselves and for the pupils they look after.

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Will the Minister meet the experts I mentioned from the UK’s world-class universities? Perhaps she could be joined by two or three MPs from both sides of the House who are keen to promote mindfulness in education. I thank her for listening.

4.56 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Elizabeth Truss): I congratulate the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) on securing this debate. His speech, drawing on his experience as a teacher, was interesting and informative and he highlighted some worrying facts about the mental health of our children and young people. He painted a vivid picture of the age of anxiety in which we live, whether that is as a result of the constant pummelling of modern media such as Twitter and Facebook and advertising, or the sheer pace of modern life that we all experience. He talked about the Red Queen from “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland,” and I think many of us often feel like the White Rabbit, rushing around from one thing to another. I recognise the issues he raised and the picture he painted of the way life is now.

The Department for Education certainly agrees that children learn better and achieve more when they are thinking clearly, and the ability to focus on the matter in hand and to ignore potential distractions is an important factor in being able to learn and focus. The hon. Gentleman talked about the ability to sit still, be curious and be willing to learn, which we need at every stage of our education system. I absolutely agree with that.

I also agree with the hon. Gentleman’s comments on the number of exams, particularly external exams, that students are sitting. We have moved to a linear course for A-level to remove the necessity for students to sit another exam at 17. We have moved to linear exams for GCSEs, too, because children were taking external exams every term. We want young people to have an opportunity to learn in depth, to think about what they are studying and to enjoy it. Rather than the end always being the exam, the end should be learning in school.

I challenge what the hon. Gentleman said about the PISA results, which varied between the countries of the United Kingdom. Wales did significantly worse than England. England’s results have stagnated over the past 15 years. We do not think that is good, which is why the Government are reforming the education system and considering examples such as Poland and Germany, where results have successfully been improved. I agree with him about the importance of young people being exposed to entrepreneurship in schools, which could help to build character resilience and all the other characteristics we want to see in our young people.

It is worth briefly discussing the new curriculum, which is being introduced in September 2014. It is a lot slimmer than its predecessor, which means more time for teachers to teach in different ways and to introduce concepts such as mindfulness to their students if that is the best way of getting messages across. I like to say that the Government have put the trellises and pathways in the garden, but it is for the teachers to plant the seeds and grow the plants. That is not something we can do from Whitehall.

Students’ mental health and well-being is of course an important part of their learning process in order to ensure that they are doing well. Mindfulness has been

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used in schools and is often taught in combination with other relaxation and self-management techniques. Some early indications suggest that such approaches can help pupils to control stress and anxiety, pay attention and develop social skills, and can improve teacher-pupil interactions and enhance academic performance. I support the sharing of good practice and ideas that help pupils to achieve more. I also believe that the best way for schools to find out about what works is from the successes of other schools in similar circumstances. I would like to hear from the hon. Gentleman and interested colleagues about positive examples of schools that are using mindfulness and finding it a successful approach.

Chris Ruane: Would the Minister accept an invitation to see mindfulness in action in a school in her constituency, if one is available, or perhaps here in London?

Elizabeth Truss: The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting proposal, which I will consider along with the meeting request, but I certainly am interested in understanding more about how mindfulness works in practice. I would therefore like to accept the offer.

As I mentioned, we have given schools the freedom to decide which external programmes they use to deliver their curriculum. I am keen to get across the point that, while the curriculum is being implemented by schools over the next six months, they do have the freedom to try new approaches and to do things differently, in a way that they feel is beneficial for their students.

Ofsted has made it clear that it expects schools to look at the whole child, and will focus inspections on outcomes. Together with a slimmed-down curriculum, that gives schools more freedom to add skill and character-building activities, promoting children’s wider well-being. If a school thinks that the mindfulness programme is suitable, it has the ability to make that choice.

Many schools commission their own pastoral and counselling support for their students, and school counselling to support young people is already widespread.

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A recent survey estimated that between 60% and 85% of English secondary schools provide access to counselling, which equates to between 50,000 and 70,000 sessions a year. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the Department of Health, which issued in July 2012 a document entitled, “No health without mental health: implementation framework”, which described the role of schools and FE colleges as understanding the link between emotional well-being and achieving good educational and life outcomes. Teachers are not expected to stand in for mental health professionals, but schools should have a whole-school approach to developing pupils’ well-being and resilience.

I am doing much work with the Department of Health to ensure that our programmes are more joined up in all areas, including schoolchildren’s mental health and our early years programme. The hon. Gentleman referred to the fact that the abilities to sit still, be curious and be willing to learn are often developed at an early age. We need better co-operation between the Department for Education and the Department of Health. Children’s centres, where health and education professionals are on the same site providing guidance to parents and helping young children, work well to help to develop such skills.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned teacher training. Although initial teacher training is important, so is professional development while teachers are in schools. We are keen to see greater professional development and to see head teachers take on more responsibility over time for that development in a school-led system.

I am interested in discussing the matter further with the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues to see how we can ensure that schools understand the opportunities and the examples of best practice, and how they can fit in to the new national curriculum and the new approach on qualifications.

Question put and agreed to.

5.6 pm

Sitting adjourned.