6.49 pm

The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Nicky Morgan): This afternoon’s debate has been a good one, and we have heard interesting contributions from all parts of the House. I counted 13 Back-Bench Members of Parliament who have been able to contribute in the couple of hours available to us. I will try, shortly, to address as many of the points raised as possible in the time allowed to me.

The shadow Secretary of State and many Opposition Members have taken great pride in pointing out that 17 years ago some members of my party had reservations about the impact that a minimum wage might have on UK businesses. The Opposition are right to point out that some of those fears—[Interruption.] I think they might want to listen to this. They are right to point out that some of those fears have been unfounded and that the minimum wage has been important for our lower-paid workers. I hope Opposition Members will realise that acknowledging mistakes is not terribly hard. The shadow Chancellor might want to think about that when he realises who crashed our economy.

What we have to remember is that this is all about finding the right balance. Yes, we would like to see a faster increase in the national minimum wage and everyone sharing in the recovery, but if an increase were to cost people their jobs or to slow down the recovery, then it would, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor said last week, be completely self-defeating. That is why my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary has asked the Low Pay Commission, whose judgment and expertise we value greatly, to consider the conditions that we would need for a faster increase.

Chris Williamson: Does the hon. Lady deprecate those employment agencies that seek to use the Swedish derogation model to get around the implementation of the minimum wage? Is that not a gross abuse of that derogation, and does she deprecate it?

Nicky Morgan: I will come on to that point, as the hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) mentioned it in his speech. If Members will forgive me, I will accept only a few interventions because I want to reflect on the points that have been raised this afternoon.

15 Jan 2014 : Column 956

As all Members are aware, the Low Pay Commission will report to us next month on the recommended wage for 2014, and the Government will respond shortly after. As we have heard this afternoon, we must ensure that the existing wage rates are properly enforced, which is why this Government’s steps to hit those firms found guilty of failing to pay the wages with penalties and publicity will be so important.

Let me turn to the points that have been made by Members across the House this afternoon. We started with a typically thoughtful contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), who has looked a great deal at this area. He mentioned the reintroduction of the 10p tax band, which is an interesting suggestion. [Interruption.] Yes, who did abolish the 10p tax rate? I think it was the Labour party! My hon. Friend also talked about making some changes to national insurance contributions, but the most important thing he said was that we want to leave workers with more money in their pockets, and that is what this Government are all about.

The hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) reminded us all that the Low Pay Commission is independent, which is critical. It was set up by the previous Government and we need to wait to hear what it recommends before we make any further decisions.

My hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke) was absolutely right about the importance of low inflation. I am sure that he, like all Members, will welcome the recent fall in inflation and the impact that that will have on people’s wages and the amount of money that households have to spend.

My hon. Friend the Member for Braintree (Mr Newmark), who is not in his place at the moment, talked about the policy to abolish national insurance contributions for those under the age of 21, which was announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor in the autumn statement. He was absolutely right to say that we must encourage businesses to take on as many young employees as they possibly can.

Let me move on to the contributions from Opposition Members. The right hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Dame Tessa Jowell) and the hon. Members for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain), for Derby North (Chris Williamson), for Corby (Andy Sawford), for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) and for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) all talked about enforcement. I am sure that others did as well. In 2012-13, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs collected £3.9 million in arrears for workers; 26,500 workers benefited. That was a 33% increase in the number of workers benefiting and a 26% increase in the number of arrears identified. Seven hundred employers were penalised last year for failing to comply with the national minimum wage rates, and the value of fines, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said earlier, was seven times higher last year than it was in 2009-10.

In 2009-10, 381 penalties were charged, and last year it was 696, although it had risen to more than 900 in the previous two years. Opposition Members talked about the amount of money that was given to the enforcement agencies. However, it is not necessarily about how much money is given but how effective those enforcement agencies are with the money that is given to them—a principle that Government Members take very seriously.

15 Jan 2014 : Column 957

I must comment on the point made by the hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Chris Ruane) about the fact that although it had taken the Labour party nearly 100 years to deliver the national minimum wage, it got there in the end. It looks like it is going to take the shadow Chancellor 100 years before the Labour party comes up with a long-term economic plan. He has plenty of time and we look forward to hearing it.

Opposition Members, particularly the hon. Member for Glasgow North East, did not tackle the fact that the rise in the income tax threshold introduced by the Government has left more money in workers’ pockets. The hon. Gentleman talked about comparisons with the minimum wage and what it was when Labour was in government, but the fact is that constituents come to MPs from both sides of the House and say that they have more money in their pockets as a result of the fact that the personal allowance has gone up.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe) talked about UK employees being undercut. We have asked the Equality and Human Rights Commission to explain what enforcement action it is taking against employment agencies that discriminate against our nationals, for example by advertising UK jobs exclusively overseas. That is an issue we are aware of and we have asked the EHRC to address it.

I thought that the hon. Member for Corby (Andy Sawford) was very fair in his remarks about enforcement in his constituency. There is clearly more to come and I heard what he said about the new penalty figures and the penalties that have been levied. I am sure that my colleagues in BIS will take note of what he said.

The hon. Member for Blaydon talked about care workers. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, the guidance on travelling time has been updated. It is right that we should do more to get that guidance out. I have been approached about it in my constituency office as the Member of Parliament for Loughborough and we certainly need to disseminate it better.

We had some interesting contributions from Members this afternoon and I thank all Members for their contributions. I am aware that I have not necessarily been able to respond to all the points that have been raised this afternoon. I shall certainly take away what has been said and I will read the debate to see whether we need to tackle any other issues.

It is fair to say that almost everyone who has spoken in the Chamber today wants to achieve the same goals. We want to see those who receive the minimum wage paid fairly and we want to see those who do not pay the minimum wage treated harshly. I am sure all Members welcome today’s announcement, mentioned by Government Members, that the fines have been quadrupled from £5,000 to £20,000. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said, we would also like to increase those fines to £20,000 per worker, which will send a clear message to employers who think that they can flout the minimum wage regulations that that is not an option and that they need to pay a fair wage for a fair day’s work.

We want wages to continue to rise, unemployment to continue to fall and our economy to continue to recover, and we want everyone in this country to share in that. I ask the House to wait for the Low Pay Commission’s report, to reject the motion and to support the Government amendment.

15 Jan 2014 : Column 958

Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.

The House divided:

Ayes 235, Noes 299.

Division No. 180]

[

6.58 pm

AYES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Abrahams, Debbie

Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob

Alexander, rh Mr Douglas

Alexander, Heidi

Ali, Rushanara

Allen, Mr Graham

Anderson, Mr David

Ashworth, Jonathan

Austin, Ian

Bailey, Mr Adrian

Bain, Mr William

Balls, rh Ed

Barron, rh Kevin

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, rh Margaret

Begg, Dame Anne

Benn, rh Hilary

Benton, Mr Joe

Berger, Luciana

Betts, Mr Clive

Blackman-Woods, Roberta

Blomfield, Paul

Blunkett, rh Mr David

Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben

Brennan, Kevin

Brown, Lyn

Brown, rh Mr Nicholas

Brown, Mr Russell

Bryant, Chris

Buck, Ms Karen

Burden, Richard

Byrne, rh Mr Liam

Campbell, Mr Alan

Campbell, Mr Ronnie

Caton, Martin

Clark, Katy

Clarke, rh Mr Tom

Coaker, Vernon

Coffey, Ann

Connarty, Michael

Cooper, Rosie

Cooper, rh Yvette

Corbyn, Jeremy

Crausby, Mr David

Creagh, Mary

Creasy, Stella

Cryer, John

Cunningham, Alex

Cunningham, Mr Jim

Cunningham, Sir Tony

Curran, Margaret

Dakin, Nic

Danczuk, Simon

David, Wayne

Davidson, Mr Ian

Davies, Geraint

De Piero, Gloria

Dobbin, Jim

Docherty, Thomas

Donohoe, Mr Brian H.

Doran, Mr Frank

Dowd, Jim

Dromey, Jack

Dugher, Michael

Durkan, Mark

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eagle, Maria

Efford, Clive

Elliott, Julie

Ellman, Mrs Louise

Engel, Natascha

Esterson, Bill

Evans, Chris

Farrelly, Paul

Field, rh Mr Frank

Fitzpatrick, Jim

Flello, Robert

Flint, rh Caroline

Flynn, Paul

Francis, Dr Hywel

Gapes, Mike

Gardiner, Barry

Gilmore, Sheila

Glass, Pat

Glindon, Mrs Mary

Godsiff, Mr Roger

Goodman, Helen

Greatrex, Tom

Green, Kate

Greenwood, Lilian

Griffith, Nia

Gwynne, Andrew

Hain, rh Mr Peter

Hamilton, Fabian

Hanson, rh Mr David

Harman, rh Ms Harriet

Harris, Mr Tom

Healey, rh John

Hendrick, Mark

Heyes, David

Hillier, Meg

Hilling, Julie

Hodge, rh Margaret

Hodgson, Mrs Sharon

Hosie, Stewart

Howarth, rh Mr George

Hunt, Tristram

Irranca-Davies, Huw

Jackson, Glenda

Jamieson, Cathy

Jarvis, Dan

Johnson, rh Alan

Johnson, Diana

Jones, Graham

Jones, Helen

Jones, Mr Kevan

Jones, Susan Elan

Jowell, rh Dame Tessa

Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald

Keeley, Barbara

Kendall, Liz

Khan, rh Sadiq

Lammy, rh Mr David

Lavery, Ian

Lazarowicz, Mark

Leslie, Chris

Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma

Lewis, Mr Ivan

Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn

Lucas, Caroline

Lucas, Ian

MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan

Mactaggart, Fiona

Mahmood, Mr Khalid

Mahmood, Shabana

Malhotra, Seema

Marsden, Mr Gordon

McCabe, Steve

McCann, Mr Michael

McCarthy, Kerry

McClymont, Gregg

McDonagh, Siobhain

McDonald, Andy

McDonnell, John

McFadden, rh Mr Pat

McGovern, Alison

McGuire, rh Mrs Anne

McKechin, Ann

McKenzie, Mr Iain

McKinnell, Catherine

Meacher, rh Mr Michael

Meale, Sir Alan

Mearns, Ian

Miliband, rh Edward

Miller, Andrew

Mitchell, Austin

Moon, Mrs Madeleine

Morden, Jessica

Morrice, Graeme

(Livingston)

Morris, Grahame M.

(Easington)

Munn, Meg

Murphy, rh Mr Jim

Murphy, rh Paul

Murray, Ian

Nandy, Lisa

Nash, Pamela

O'Donnell, Fiona

Onwurah, Chi

Osborne, Sandra

Owen, Albert

Pearce, Teresa

Perkins, Toby

Phillipson, Bridget

Pound, Stephen

Powell, Lucy

Raynsford, rh Mr Nick

Reed, Mr Jamie

Reed, Mr Steve

Reeves, Rachel

Reynolds, Emma

Reynolds, Jonathan

Riordan, Mrs Linda

Robertson, John

Rotheram, Steve

Roy, Mr Frank

Roy, Lindsay

Ruane, Chris

Ruddock, rh Dame Joan

Sarwar, Anas

Sawford, Andy

Seabeck, Alison

Shannon, Jim

Sharma, Mr Virendra

Sheerman, Mr Barry

Sheridan, Jim

Shuker, Gavin

Skinner, Mr Dennis

Slaughter, Mr Andy

Smith, rh Mr Andrew

Smith, Angela

Smith, Nick

Smith, Owen

Spellar, rh Mr John

Straw, rh Mr Jack

Stringer, Graham

Stuart, Ms Gisela

Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry

Tami, Mark

Thomas, Mr Gareth

Thornberry, Emily

Timms, rh Stephen

Trickett, Jon

Turner, Karl

Twigg, Derek

Twigg, Stephen

Umunna, Mr Chuka

Vaz, rh Keith

Vaz, Valerie

Walley, Joan

Watson, Mr Tom

Watts, Mr Dave

Weir, Mr Mike

Whiteford, Dr Eilidh

Whitehead, Dr Alan

Williams, Hywel

Williamson, Chris

Wilson, Phil

Winnick, Mr David

Winterton, rh Ms Rosie

Wishart, Pete

Wood, Mike

Woodcock, John

Wright, David

Wright, Mr Iain

Tellers for the Ayes:

Tom Blenkinsop

and

Mr David Hamilton

NOES

Adams, Nigel

Afriyie, Adam

Aldous, Peter

Amess, Mr David

Andrew, Stuart

Arbuthnot, rh Mr James

Baker, Norman

Baldry, rh Sir Tony

Baldwin, Harriett

Barclay, Stephen

Barker, rh Gregory

Baron, Mr John

Bebb, Guto

Beith, rh Sir Alan

Bellingham, Mr Henry

Benyon, Richard

Beresford, Sir Paul

Berry, Jake

Bingham, Andrew

Binley, Mr Brian

Birtwistle, Gordon

Blackman, Bob

Blackwood, Nicola

Boles, Nick

Bone, Mr Peter

Bradley, Karen

Brady, Mr Graham

Brake, rh Tom

Bray, Angie

Brazier, Mr Julian

Bridgen, Andrew

Brine, Steve

Brokenshire, James

Brooke, Annette

Bruce, Fiona

Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm

Buckland, Mr Robert

Burns, Conor

Burns, rh Mr Simon

Burrowes, Mr David

Burstow, rh Paul

Burt, rh Alistair

Burt, Lorely

Byles, Dan

Cable, rh Vince

Cairns, Alun

Campbell, rh Sir Menzies

Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair

Carmichael, Neil

Carswell, Mr Douglas

Cash, Mr William

Chishti, Rehman

Chope, Mr Christopher

Clappison, Mr James

Clark, rh Greg

Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey

Coffey, Dr Thérèse

Collins, Damian

Colvile, Oliver

Cox, Mr Geoffrey

Crabb, Stephen

Crockart, Mike

Crouch, Tracey

Davey, rh Mr Edward

Davies, David T. C.

(Monmouth)

Davies, Glyn

Davies, Philip

Davis, rh Mr David

de Bois, Nick

Dinenage, Caroline

Djanogly, Mr Jonathan

Dorries, Nadine

Doyle-Price, Jackie

Drax, Richard

Duddridge, James

Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain

Ellis, Michael

Ellison, Jane

Ellwood, Mr Tobias

Elphicke, Charlie

Eustice, George

Evans, Graham

Evans, Jonathan

Evennett, Mr David

Fabricant, Michael

Featherstone, Lynne

Field, Mark

Foster, rh Mr Don

Fox, rh Dr Liam

Freeman, George

Freer, Mike

Fuller, Richard

Gale, Sir Roger

Garnier, Sir Edward

Garnier, Mark

Gauke, Mr David

George, Andrew

Gibb, Mr Nick

Gilbert, Stephen

Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl

Glen, John

Goldsmith, Zac

Gove, rh Michael

Graham, Richard

Grant, Mrs Helen

Grayling, rh Chris

Green, rh Damian

Grieve, rh Mr Dominic

Griffiths, Andrew

Gummer, Ben

Gyimah, Mr Sam

Hague, rh Mr William

Halfon, Robert

Hammond, Stephen

Hancock, Mr Mike

Hands, Greg

Harper, Mr Mark

Harrington, Richard

Harris, Rebecca

Hart, Simon

Harvey, Sir Nick

Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan

Hayes, rh Mr John

Heaton-Harris, Chris

Hemming, John

Henderson, Gordon

Hendry, Charles

Herbert, rh Nick

Hinds, Damian

Hoban, Mr Mark

Hollingbery, George

Hollobone, Mr Philip

Horwood, Martin

Howell, John

Hughes, rh Simon

Huppert, Dr Julian

Hurd, Mr Nick

Jackson, Mr Stewart

James, Margot

Javid, Sajid

Jenkin, Mr Bernard

Johnson, Gareth

Johnson, Joseph

Jones, Andrew

Jones, rh Mr David

Jones, Mr Marcus

Kawczynski, Daniel

Kelly, Chris

Kirby, Simon

Knight, rh Sir Greg

Kwarteng, Kwasi

Lamb, Norman

Lancaster, Mark

Lansley, rh Mr Andrew

Latham, Pauline

Laws, rh Mr David

Leadsom, Andrea

Lee, Jessica

Lee, Dr Phillip

Lefroy, Jeremy

Leigh, Sir Edward

Leslie, Charlotte

Letwin, rh Mr Oliver

Lewis, Brandon

Lidington, rh Mr David

Lilley, rh Mr Peter

Lloyd, Stephen

Lord, Jonathan

Loughton, Tim

Luff, Sir Peter

Lumley, Karen

Main, Mrs Anne

Maude, rh Mr Francis

Maynard, Paul

McCartney, Jason

McCartney, Karl

McIntosh, Miss Anne

McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick

McPartland, Stephen

McVey, Esther

Menzies, Mark

Metcalfe, Stephen

Mills, Nigel

Milton, Anne

Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew

Moore, rh Michael

Mordaunt, Penny

Morgan, Nicky

Morris, Anne Marie

Morris, James

Mosley, Stephen

Mowat, David

Mulholland, Greg

Mundell, rh David

Munt, Tessa

Murray, Sheryll

Neill, Robert

Newmark, Mr Brooks

Newton, Sarah

Nokes, Caroline

Nuttall, Mr David

O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen

Offord, Dr Matthew

Ollerenshaw, Eric

Opperman, Guy

Ottaway, rh Sir Richard

Paice, rh Sir James

Parish, Neil

Patel, Priti

Pawsey, Mark

Penning, Mike

Penrose, John

Percy, Andrew

Phillips, Stephen

Pincher, Christopher

Poulter, Dr Daniel

Prisk, Mr Mark

Pugh, John

Raab, Mr Dominic

Randall, rh Sir John

Reckless, Mark

Redwood, rh Mr John

Rees-Mogg, Jacob

Reevell, Simon

Reid, Mr Alan

Robertson, Mr Laurence

Rosindell, Andrew

Rudd, Amber

Ruffley, Mr David

Russell, Sir Bob

Rutley, David

Sanders, Mr Adrian

Sandys, Laura

Scott, Mr Lee

Selous, Andrew

Shapps, rh Grant

Sharma, Alok

Shelbrooke, Alec

Simpson, Mr Keith

Skidmore, Chris

Smith, Chloe

Smith, Henry

Smith, Julian

Smith, Sir Robert

Soames, rh Nicholas

Spencer, Mr Mark

Stanley, rh Sir John

Stephenson, Andrew

Stevenson, John

Stewart, Iain

Stewart, Rory

Streeter, Mr Gary

Stride, Mel

Stuart, Mr Graham

Stunell, rh Sir Andrew

Sturdy, Julian

Swales, Ian

Swayne, rh Mr Desmond

Swire, rh Mr Hugo

Syms, Mr Robert

Tapsell, rh Sir Peter

Thornton, Mike

Thurso, John

Timpson, Mr Edward

Tomlinson, Justin

Tredinnick, David

Truss, Elizabeth

Turner, Mr Andrew

Tyrie, Mr Andrew

Uppal, Paul

Vara, Mr Shailesh

Vickers, Martin

Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa

Walker, Mr Charles

Walker, Mr Robin

Wallace, Mr Ben

Ward, Mr David

Watkinson, Dame Angela

Weatherley, Mike

Webb, Steve

Wharton, James

Wheeler, Heather

White, Chris

Whittaker, Craig

Whittingdale, Mr John

Wiggin, Bill

Willetts, rh Mr David

Williams, Mr Mark

Williams, Roger

Williams, Stephen

Williamson, Gavin

Willott, Jenny

Wilson, Mr Rob

Wollaston, Dr Sarah

Wright, Jeremy

Wright, Simon

Young, rh Sir George

Zahawi, Nadhim

Tellers for the Noes:

Mark Hunter

and

Claire Perry

Question accordingly negatived.

15 Jan 2014 : Column 959

15 Jan 2014 : Column 960

15 Jan 2014 : Column 961

Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the proposed words be there added.

The House divided:

Ayes 297, Noes 227.

Division No. 181]

[

7.11 pm

AYES

Adams, Nigel

Afriyie, Adam

Aldous, Peter

Amess, Mr David

Andrew, Stuart

Arbuthnot, rh Mr James

Baker, Norman

Baldry, rh Sir Tony

Baldwin, Harriett

Barclay, Stephen

Barker, rh Gregory

Baron, Mr John

Bebb, Guto

Beith, rh Sir Alan

Bellingham, Mr Henry

Benyon, Richard

Beresford, Sir Paul

Berry, Jake

Bingham, Andrew

Binley, Mr Brian

Birtwistle, Gordon

Blackman, Bob

Blackwood, Nicola

Boles, Nick

Bone, Mr Peter

Bradley, Karen

Brady, Mr Graham

Brake, rh Tom

Bray, Angie

Brazier, Mr Julian

Bridgen, Andrew

Brine, Steve

Brokenshire, James

Brooke, Annette

Bruce, Fiona

Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm

Buckland, Mr Robert

Burns, Conor

Burns, rh Mr Simon

Burrowes, Mr David

Burstow, rh Paul

Burt, rh Alistair

Burt, Lorely

Byles, Dan

Cable, rh Vince

Cairns, Alun

Campbell, rh Sir Menzies

Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair

Carmichael, Neil

Carswell, Mr Douglas

Cash, Mr William

Chishti, Rehman

Chope, Mr Christopher

Clappison, Mr James

Clark, rh Greg

Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey

Coffey, Dr Thérèse

Collins, Damian

Colvile, Oliver

Cox, Mr Geoffrey

Crabb, Stephen

Crockart, Mike

Crouch, Tracey

Davey, rh Mr Edward

Davies, David T. C.

(Monmouth)

Davies, Glyn

Davies, Philip

Davis, rh Mr David

de Bois, Nick

Dinenage, Caroline

Djanogly, Mr Jonathan

Dorries, Nadine

Doyle-Price, Jackie

Drax, Richard

Duddridge, James

Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain

Ellis, Michael

Ellison, Jane

Ellwood, Mr Tobias

Elphicke, Charlie

Eustice, George

Evans, Graham

Evans, Jonathan

Evennett, Mr David

Fabricant, Michael

Featherstone, Lynne

Field, Mark

Foster, rh Mr Don

Fox, rh Dr Liam

Freeman, George

Freer, Mike

Fuller, Richard

Gale, Sir Roger

Garnier, Sir Edward

Garnier, Mark

Gauke, Mr David

George, Andrew

Gibb, Mr Nick

Gilbert, Stephen

Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl

Glen, John

Gove, rh Michael

Graham, Richard

Grant, Mrs Helen

Grayling, rh Chris

Green, rh Damian

Grieve, rh Mr Dominic

Griffiths, Andrew

Gummer, Ben

Hague, rh Mr William

Halfon, Robert

Hammond, Stephen

Hancock, Mr Mike

Hands, Greg

Harper, Mr Mark

Harrington, Richard

Harris, Rebecca

Hart, Simon

Harvey, Sir Nick

Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan

Hayes, rh Mr John

Heaton-Harris, Chris

Hemming, John

Henderson, Gordon

Hendry, Charles

Herbert, rh Nick

Hinds, Damian

Hoban, Mr Mark

Hollingbery, George

Hollobone, Mr Philip

Hopkins, Kris

Horwood, Martin

Howell, John

Hughes, rh Simon

Hunter, Mark

Huppert, Dr Julian

Hurd, Mr Nick

Jackson, Mr Stewart

James, Margot

Javid, Sajid

Jenkin, Mr Bernard

Johnson, Gareth

Johnson, Joseph

Jones, Andrew

Jones, rh Mr David

Jones, Mr Marcus

Kawczynski, Daniel

Kelly, Chris

Kirby, Simon

Knight, rh Sir Greg

Kwarteng, Kwasi

Lamb, Norman

Lancaster, Mark

Lansley, rh Mr Andrew

Latham, Pauline

Leadsom, Andrea

Lee, Jessica

Lee, Dr Phillip

Lefroy, Jeremy

Leigh, Sir Edward

Leslie, Charlotte

Letwin, rh Mr Oliver

Lewis, Brandon

Lidington, rh Mr David

Lilley, rh Mr Peter

Lloyd, Stephen

Lord, Jonathan

Loughton, Tim

Luff, Sir Peter

Lumley, Karen

Main, Mrs Anne

Maude, rh Mr Francis

Maynard, Paul

McCartney, Jason

McCartney, Karl

McIntosh, Miss Anne

McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick

McPartland, Stephen

McVey, Esther

Menzies, Mark

Metcalfe, Stephen

Mills, Nigel

Milton, Anne

Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew

Moore, rh Michael

Mordaunt, Penny

Morgan, Nicky

Morris, Anne Marie

Morris, James

Mosley, Stephen

Mowat, David

Mulholland, Greg

Mundell, rh David

Munt, Tessa

Murray, Sheryll

Neill, Robert

Newmark, Mr Brooks

Newton, Sarah

Nokes, Caroline

Nuttall, Mr David

O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen

Offord, Dr Matthew

Ollerenshaw, Eric

Opperman, Guy

Ottaway, rh Sir Richard

Paice, rh Sir James

Parish, Neil

Patel, Priti

Pawsey, Mark

Penning, Mike

Penrose, John

Percy, Andrew

Phillips, Stephen

Pincher, Christopher

Poulter, Dr Daniel

Prisk, Mr Mark

Pugh, John

Raab, Mr Dominic

Randall, rh Sir John

Reckless, Mark

Redwood, rh Mr John

Rees-Mogg, Jacob

Reevell, Simon

Reid, Mr Alan

Robertson, Mr Laurence

Rosindell, Andrew

Rudd, Amber

Ruffley, Mr David

Russell, Sir Bob

Rutley, David

Sanders, Mr Adrian

Sandys, Laura

Scott, Mr Lee

Selous, Andrew

Shapps, rh Grant

Sharma, Alok

Shelbrooke, Alec

Simpson, Mr Keith

Skidmore, Chris

Smith, Chloe

Smith, Henry

Smith, Julian

Smith, Sir Robert

Soames, rh Nicholas

Spencer, Mr Mark

Stanley, rh Sir John

Stephenson, Andrew

Stevenson, John

Stewart, Iain

Stewart, Rory

Streeter, Mr Gary

Stride, Mel

Stuart, Mr Graham

Stunell, rh Sir Andrew

Sturdy, Julian

Swales, Ian

Swayne, rh Mr Desmond

Swire, rh Mr Hugo

Syms, Mr Robert

Tapsell, rh Sir Peter

Thornton, Mike

Thurso, John

Timpson, Mr Edward

Tomlinson, Justin

Tredinnick, David

Truss, Elizabeth

Turner, Mr Andrew

Tyrie, Mr Andrew

Uppal, Paul

Vara, Mr Shailesh

Vickers, Martin

Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa

Walker, Mr Charles

Walker, Mr Robin

Wallace, Mr Ben

Ward, Mr David

Watkinson, Dame Angela

Weatherley, Mike

Webb, Steve

Wharton, James

Wheeler, Heather

White, Chris

Whittaker, Craig

Whittingdale, Mr John

Wiggin, Bill

Willetts, rh Mr David

Williams, Mr Mark

Williams, Roger

Williams, Stephen

Williamson, Gavin

Willott, Jenny

Wilson, Mr Rob

Wollaston, Dr Sarah

Wright, Jeremy

Wright, Simon

Young, rh Sir George

Zahawi, Nadhim

Tellers for the Ayes:

Claire Perry

and

Mr Sam Gyimah

NOES

Abbott, Ms Diane

Abrahams, Debbie

Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob

Alexander, rh Mr Douglas

Alexander, Heidi

Ali, Rushanara

Allen, Mr Graham

Anderson, Mr David

Ashworth, Jonathan

Bailey, Mr Adrian

Bain, Mr William

Balls, rh Ed

Barron, rh Kevin

Bayley, Hugh

Beckett, rh Margaret

Begg, Dame Anne

Benn, rh Hilary

Benton, Mr Joe

Berger, Luciana

Betts, Mr Clive

Blackman-Woods, Roberta

Blomfield, Paul

Blunkett, rh Mr David

Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben

Brennan, Kevin

Brown, Lyn

Brown, rh Mr Nicholas

Bryant, Chris

Buck, Ms Karen

Burden, Richard

Byrne, rh Mr Liam

Campbell, Mr Alan

Campbell, Mr Ronnie

Caton, Martin

Clark, Katy

Coaker, Vernon

Coffey, Ann

Connarty, Michael

Cooper, Rosie

Cooper, rh Yvette

Corbyn, Jeremy

Crausby, Mr David

Creagh, Mary

Creasy, Stella

Cruddas, Jon

Cryer, John

Cunningham, Alex

Cunningham, Mr Jim

Curran, Margaret

Dakin, Nic

Danczuk, Simon

David, Wayne

Davies, Geraint

De Piero, Gloria

Dobbin, Jim

Docherty, Thomas

Doran, Mr Frank

Dowd, Jim

Dromey, Jack

Dugher, Michael

Eagle, Ms Angela

Eagle, Maria

Elliott, Julie

Ellman, Mrs Louise

Engel, Natascha

Esterson, Bill

Evans, Chris

Farrelly, Paul

Field, rh Mr Frank

Fitzpatrick, Jim

Flello, Robert

Flint, rh Caroline

Flynn, Paul

Francis, Dr Hywel

Gapes, Mike

Gardiner, Barry

Gilmore, Sheila

Glass, Pat

Glindon, Mrs Mary

Godsiff, Mr Roger

Goodman, Helen

Greatrex, Tom

Green, Kate

Greenwood, Lilian

Griffith, Nia

Gwynne, Andrew

Hain, rh Mr Peter

Hamilton, Fabian

Hanson, rh Mr David

Harman, rh Ms Harriet

Harris, Mr Tom

Healey, rh John

Hendrick, Mark

Heyes, David

Hillier, Meg

Hilling, Julie

Hodge, rh Margaret

Hodgson, Mrs Sharon

Hosie, Stewart

Howarth, rh Mr George

Hunt, Tristram

Irranca-Davies, Huw

Jackson, Glenda

Jamieson, Cathy

Jarvis, Dan

Johnson, rh Alan

Johnson, Diana

Jones, Graham

Jones, Helen

Jones, Mr Kevan

Jones, Susan Elan

Jowell, rh Dame Tessa

Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald

Keeley, Barbara

Kendall, Liz

Khan, rh Sadiq

Lammy, rh Mr David

Lavery, Ian

Lazarowicz, Mark

Leslie, Chris

Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma

Lewis, Mr Ivan

Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn

Lucas, Caroline

Lucas, Ian

MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan

Mactaggart, Fiona

Mahmood, Mr Khalid

Mahmood, Shabana

Malhotra, Seema

Marsden, Mr Gordon

McCabe, Steve

McCann, Mr Michael

McCarthy, Kerry

McClymont, Gregg

McDonagh, Siobhain

McDonald, Andy

McDonnell, John

McFadden, rh Mr Pat

McGovern, Alison

McGuire, rh Mrs Anne

McKechin, Ann

McKenzie, Mr Iain

McKinnell, Catherine

Meacher, rh Mr Michael

Meale, Sir Alan

Mearns, Ian

Miliband, rh Edward

Miller, Andrew

Mitchell, Austin

Moon, Mrs Madeleine

Morden, Jessica

Morrice, Graeme

(Livingston)

Morris, Grahame M.

(Easington)

Munn, Meg

Murphy, rh Mr Jim

Murphy, rh Paul

Murray, Ian

Nandy, Lisa

Nash, Pamela

O'Donnell, Fiona

Onwurah, Chi

Osborne, Sandra

Owen, Albert

Pearce, Teresa

Perkins, Toby

Phillipson, Bridget

Pound, Stephen

Powell, Lucy

Raynsford, rh Mr Nick

Reed, Mr Jamie

Reed, Mr Steve

Reeves, Rachel

Reynolds, Emma

Reynolds, Jonathan

Riordan, Mrs Linda

Robertson, John

Rotheram, Steve

Roy, Mr Frank

Roy, Lindsay

Ruane, Chris

Ruddock, rh Dame oan

Sarwar, Anas

Sawford, Andy

Seabeck, Alison

Shannon, Jim

Sharma, Mr Virendra

Sheerman, Mr Barry

Sheridan, Jim

Shuker, Gavin

Skinner, Mr Dennis

Slaughter, Mr Andy

Smith, rh Mr Andrew

Smith, Angela

Smith, Nick

Smith, Owen

Spellar, rh Mr John

Stringer, Graham

Stuart, Ms Gisela

Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry

Tami, Mark

Thomas, Mr Gareth

Thornberry, Emily

Timms, rh Stephen

Trickett, Jon

Turner, Karl

Twigg, Derek

Twigg, Stephen

Umunna, Mr Chuka

Vaz, rh Keith

Vaz, Valerie

Walley, Joan

Watson, Mr Tom

Watts, Mr Dave

Weir, Mr Mike

Whiteford, Dr Eilidh

Whitehead, Dr Alan

Williams, Hywel

Williamson, Chris

Wilson, Phil

Winnick, Mr David

Winterton, rh Ms Rosie

Wishart, Pete

Wood, Mike

Woodcock, John

Wright, David

Wright, Mr Iain

Tellers for the Noes:

Tom Blenkinsop

and

Mr David Hamilton

Question accordingly agreed to.

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The Deputy Speaker declared the main Question, as amended, to be agreed to (Standing Order No. 31(2)).

Resolved,

That this House notes that since 2010, the Government has increased the National Minimum Wage each year, despite the worst recession in living memory, to protect the income of the low paid and increase their wages relative to average earnings, and is cutting taxes for the low paid to boost take home pay by £705 a year, taking 2.7 million out of income tax altogether; welcomes increased employment under this Government, which is at its highest ever level; notes that the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills has asked the Low Pay Commission for an assessment of how it might achieve a higher National Minimum Wage in the future without damaging employment; further notes that the Government has maintained a central enforcement body that covers all areas of the UK and ensures a consistent approach and high quality service; and further notes that the Government is quadrupling fines for employers in breach of paying the National Minimum Wage and has already made it easier to name and shame employers who flout the rules.

Business without Debate

Delegated Legislation

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),

Legal Aid and Advice

That the draft Civil Legal Aid (Merits Criteria) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on 25 November, be approved.—(Karen Bradley.)

The Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday 22 January (Standing Order No. 41A).

Motion made and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)),

Criminal Law

That the draft Costs in Criminal Cases (Legal Costs) (Exceptions) Regulations 2013, which were laid before the House on 25 November, be approved.—(Karen Bradley.)

Question agreed to.

15 Jan 2014 : Column 967

Acute Hospital Wards (Staffing)

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Karen Bradley.)

7.22 pm

Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): I am delighted to have secured this important debate on the staffing of acute hospital wards, on which I know the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter)—I am pleased to see him in his place—is aware I have been campaigning for a number of years.

The pressures on acute hospitals have, without question, intensified over the past couple of decades. There are now a third fewer general and acute hospital beds than there were 25 years ago. The past decade alone has seen a 37% increase in emergency admissions. An increasing number of older patients are being admitted to hospital: 65% of admissions are of people over the age of the 65. These patients are more likely to present more complex and multiple comorbidities, and the increased demand on acute care and the increased complexity of patients’ needs will have a knock-on effect, including placing greater demand on hospital resources and increasing pressure on registered nurses, doctors and other health care professionals. It will also, of course, have an effect on patient care itself.

I intend to concentrate on the staffing levels of registered nurses. Although much of the health debate has become obsessed with changing and tweaking management tools for commissioners—for example, by incentivising health systems with payment by results and more sophisticated tariffs, creating new pathways of care and, as far as the previous Government were concerned, wasting billions on fancy information technology systems—front-line nurses are often run ragged and overstretched on hospital wards.

The background or history to this debate goes back to the case of Graham Pink, who was sacked by Stepping Hill hospital in Stockport in 1990 for speaking out about poor staffing. I raised the matter as long ago as 2001 with John Hutton, now Lord Hutton, who wrote in response to a question from me:

“The work force commitments to recruit additional nurses, doctors and therapists in the NHS Plan take account of the need to increase the number of staff necessary to deliver diagnosis and treatment within the agreed clinical standards set out in the National Service”.—[Official Report, 17 July 2001; Vol. 372, c. 114W.]

There was therefore recognition in 2001 about the need to increase the complement of staff within NHS hospitals.

Since that time, there has been an acceleration of activity. To a certain extent, that activity was stimulated by the publication on 6 February 2013 of the Francis report on Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust, which has been debated a great deal in the House and elsewhere. As a member, as the Minister once was, of the Select Committee on Health, I know that it has exercised our consideration on many occasions.

To respond to the concerns about the arguably inadequate registered nurse staffing levels in many acute hospitals, the Safe Staffing Alliance has been formed with members from the Royal College of Nursing, the Patients Association, the Florence Nightingale Foundation and many other bodies. In an important launch on 12 May, it released a statement on the risk of excess deaths, indicating that

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the risk was significantly increased by lower registered nurse to patient ratios. I met the Minister on 14 May, after which I submitted a substantial file of evidence to back up the argument in favour of improving those ratios.

On 16 July, Professor Bruce Keogh published his study on 14 hospitals. Certainly one of its key themes was the inadequate registered nurse to patient ratios on wards, which caused concern within those hospitals, and that has been debated on many occasions. On 16 August, Professor Don Berwick published a very significant report on patient safety, from which the same theme arose that we cannot achieve safe patient outcomes if we do not have adequate safe staffing levels.

On 9 October, the Safe Staffing Alliance held a reception, which I was pleased to host, and I tabled early-day motion 643 on safe staffing on 29 October. The Government have since responded, with the National Quality Board—headed by the chief nursing officer, Jane Cummings—publishing a “How to” guide on using the right tools to establish safe staffing levels on hospital wards. On 19 November, the Government responded to the Francis report, as did the Health Committee on the same date, and announced further initiatives to address the issues, which I will come on to in a moment.

The question is how bad the problem is now, when there is so much attention on it. Interestingly, a report in the Nursing Times this week stated:

“Serious concerns over staffing levels and patient safety were raised last week at four hospitals in different parts of the country”

as a result of Care Quality Commission reports. A number of CQC reports in recent years have highlighted inadequate staffing levels.

Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): One of those CQC reports was on Wexham Park hospital, which serves part of my constituency. There have been reports of pretty woeful nursing standards, particularly on acute medical wards. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that part of the challenge is that we have too many acute hospitals in the 21st century to deliver the appropriate care that we would all want our constituents to receive? A reconfiguration of hospital services, with fewer acute sites, would allow proper staffing of acute medical wards.

Andrew George: The hon. Gentleman speaks with great knowledge on this subject. Of course, we have fewer acute hospitals than we used to have, but we still have serious staffing problems. On its own, that idea is not the answer, but it does need to be considered if we are to address the issue of patient safety.

As the hon. Gentleman rightly says, the report on Wexham Park hospital stated that CQC inspectors found evidence of regular short staffing on “almost all wards” and a culture in which

“staff did not always feel they could raise concerns”.

The inspectors concluded that the trust was more focused on “responding to…targets” than on

“ensuring that overall patient experiences were positive”.

The article in the Nursing Times states:

“Despite a previous CQC warning in May, almost all the wards inspected were found to be regularly short staffed. Staff did not always feel they could raise concerns, with a number expressing concerns about bullying and harassment, the CQC said.”

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The article states that there were similar problems at Bradford Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and that, last Wednesday,

“Belfast Health and Social Care Trust declared a ‘major incident’ at its Royal Victoria Hospital due to a backlog of A & E patients. At one stage, 42 people were waiting on trolleys.”

A hospital porter, Pat Neeson, is quoted by the BBC as saying that he was

“fed up watching our nurses cry”

as a result of long-standing A and E pressures. There are significant pressures in many hospitals. Although those examples have been in the press this week, we all know that the problem is not exclusive to those hospitals.

This is also a political issue. The question is whether the reports implicate uncaring nurses or whether the problem is that there are not enough nurses on hospital wards. The Prime Minister has become involved in this issue through his presentation of the Francis report to the House last year and what he has said elsewhere. On 6 January 2012, he said:

“If we want dignity and respect, we need to focus on nurses and the care they deliver. Somewhere in the last decade the health system has conspired to undermine one of this country’s greatest professions.”

Last year, in the light of the Francis report, the Government proposed that all trainee nurses should have one year’s experience as a health care assistant before they become fully qualified. The Prime Minister said:

“We have said in the light of that report that nurses should spend some time when they are training as healthcare assistants in the hospital really making sure that they are focused on the caring and the quality and some of the quite mundane tasks that are absolutely vital to get right in hospital”.

The question is whether the problem is the attitude of nurses or nursing numbers.

The Safe Staffing Alliance suggests that there are excess deaths as a result of there being insufficient nurses. Some people ask how many excess deaths there are. Given the statistics and methodologies that are available, academic statisticians would blanch at suggesting what the figure might be. I have been cautioned by House of Commons statisticians and the academics who back up the Safe Staffing Alliance about ever doing so. It is suggested that there were at least 20 excess deaths per annum in hospitals with unsafe average staffing. The RN4CAST survey of 32 English hospitals, including more than 400 wards, showed that 43% had registered a nurse staffing ratio of more than 1:8.

There are about 240 acute hospitals. I have been heavily cautioned by the House of Commons Library and other statisticians not to extrapolate a figure, and I appreciate that I am doing what academic statisticians would never do, but I am going to step off the tightrope of academic equivocation and be a brazen politician and suggest only an indicative figure. While surrounded by so much caution and so many caveats—I do not have time to list them all—the number of excess deaths will be higher than zero and much lower than the approximately 248,000 patients who die each year in acute and community hospitals. Taking those statistics together, the indicative figure would be 4,000 excess deaths in acute hospitals in England. Clearly, this issue needs to be seriously addressed.

All the review reports last year showed that nurse staffing was a critical issue to prevent poor care, and they absolutely corroborate the research findings of the link between registered nurse staffing and quality of

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patient outcomes. The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence has been commissioned to give guidance on acute ward nurse staffing by July and it will look at validating methodologies. I have spoken to Professor Gill Leng of NICE and it is clear that it will be conducted on a robust evidential basis.

The Berwick report, the Nursing and Care Quality Forum and the Council of Deans have all publicly endorsed never having more than eight patients per registered nurse on acute wards, based on current known evidence. A number of trusts are now displaying nurse staffing on boards at ward level, with some trying to ensure that they take account of the “never more than eight” standard. A lot of action is being taken to address this issue.

As well as avoiding excess deaths, the issue needs to be addressed by health care economists, too. Recent evaluations in Perth, Australia, which has mandated levels of safe staffing, show that investment has more than paid for itself in reductions in patient harm, fewer bedsores, less complications and infections, and fewer falls. California, which has the same arrangement, has shown a 25% reduction in readmissions. These are important benefits, which health economists need to look at when they address this issue.

Jane Cummings, the chief nursing officer, has looked at the issue and I will read a key quote from her in the National Quality Board report:

“There has been much debate as to whether there should be defined staffing ratios in the NHS. My view is that this misses the point—we want the right staff, with the right skills, in the right place at the right time. There is no single ratio or formula that can calculate the answers to such complex questions. The right answer will differ across and within organisations, and reaching it requires the use of evidence, evidence based tools, the exercise of professional judgement and a truly multi-professional approach. Above all, it requires openness and transparency, within organisations and with patients and the public.”

My concern about this kind of management babble, and those who possess the presentational skills to get away with it, is that it throws a warm comfort blanket around the issue and creates a cloud of obfuscation. We need some of the hard lines proposed by the Safe Staffing Alliance, and we need fundamental standards below which no service should fall.

I have given the Minister advance notice of my questions. Does he accept that there are still a significant number of hospital settings where the number of registered nurses on duty is insufficient to ensure patient safety, professional standards and morale among many in the nursing profession? Does he agree that the Safe Staffing Alliance proposal for a fundamental standard of never less than one registered nurse to eight patients would be a useful tool for inspections and act as a benchmark for management to use, alongside other safe staffing tools? Does he agree that the CQC should in future concentrate more on using safe staffing tools and clear measurements of how many registered nurses are on a ward? Does he agree that as part of future work force planning, hospital managers should not conflate or blur the distinction between registered nurses and advanced care practitioners? Finally, without pre-empting NICE’s conclusions this summer, what can Ministers do to guarantee that hospital boards follow, or at least apply, its proposed guidance? I look forward to his response.

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7.40 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Dr Daniel Poulter): I pay tribute to the dedication and commitment to safe staffing and minimum staffing levels that my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) has shown over the last year. I have much enjoyed our many conversations about the matter, and although he understands that we have different views about the right thing to do, both he and we are coming from the right position, which is about ensuring that we properly respond to the scandals exposed as a result of the Francis inquiry into Mid Staffs and ensuring we support all staff and hospitals to look after patients.

Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): Given that one of the problems at Stafford hospital in the mid-2000s was a sharp reduction in the number of nurses in order to cut costs, will my hon. Friend and the Department of Health be looking at cases where trusts substantially reduce the number of nurses at one point to see whether that constitutes a risk to safety?

Dr Poulter: As I will come on to say, if my hon. Friend will bear with me, it is now a matter for the CQC to inspect trusts on issues such as quality of patient care and safety. I will outline those measures later in response to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives.

It is important that we support staff as much as possible when they raise concerns, whether about minimum staffing levels or other quality-of-care issues—this was the point just raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy)—and to do that we are facilitating and enhancing a duty of candour on trusts to ensure a more candid and open approach and to ensure that staff who have concerns are better supported and are better able to raise them.

Turning specifically to the matters at hand, superficially the principle of minimum staffing ratios sounds seductive, but when it comes down to it, we will see that they do not guarantee safe staffing or care. For those reasons, the Government do not support them. The principle of good care is about having the right staff in the right place at the right time. As we will all be aware, the needs of patients can change not just daily, but hourly—a patient can rapidly deteriorate—and just having ticked a minimum-staffing box does not mean that the right care is necessarily being applied. The lesson to learn from Mid Staffs is that we followed the bureaucratic tick-box approach and that led to failings in care, and that just ticking boxes saying we have done something, however seductive or good it might sound, does not necessarily mean that patients are being treated right. That is a matter of clinical circumstances and the clinical judgment of staff.

Andrew George: I am well aware of the Minister’s line, but if we followed its logic to its conclusion, we would withdraw minimum staffing levels from paediatric wards, intensive care and, in other sectors, child care, which is a topic that has been hotly debated politically as well.

Dr Poulter: As my hon. Friend will be aware, the CQC inspection regime inspects all parts of hospitals. Good care in a cardiac or intensive care unit is not

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necessarily about having one-on-one nursing; it is also about ensuring that all the other additional supports and other parts of the multidisciplinary team are in place to deliver high-quality care. That is at the heart of what the Government are trying to do. I believe that the CQC, looking not just at staffing levels but at wider determinants—for example, using the NHS safety thermometer, which looks at the issues my hon. Friend raised about bedsores—and putting together a whole picture of what the care at a trust is like, is well placed to make judgments. Part of the CQC’s inspection regime entails full clinical involvement, so it has become more of a peer-review process about what “good” looks like from one hospital to another—an important improvement in the quality of the inspection regime, which enables it to weigh up staffing issues.

My hon. Friend will be aware that we are going to support the CQC and provide greater transparency throughout the health system—in regard to staffing levels, by ensuring that they are published in future. Trust boards will have a requirement specifically to look at their staffing levels and to address problems. We shall not simply wait for the CQC to react to staffing issues as part of its wider inspection regime; there will be a requirement on trust boards to look at them. On Christmas day, I visited my local trust and found that staffing levels were discussed on a daily basis, in direct response to improvements following the Francis inquiry. I believe the same thing is taking place in a number of hospital trusts throughout the country.

Let me deal with my hon. Friend’s specific questions. He asked whether there were a significant number of hospital settings in which the number of registered nurses on duty was insufficient to ensure patient safety, professional standards and morale among many in the nursing profession. Our patients, their families and the public need to be assured that, wherever they are cared for and treated, there is a strong and positive patient safety culture, led from the top and embedded in every organisation.

There can be cases where hospitals are under-staffed and there is an impact on the quality of care provided, but these cases need to be addressed from a whole-care perspective, in which staffing numbers form just one element of a broader safety assessment. It is right that clinicians and trust boards have the freedom to agree their own staff profiles, which should not be dictated from Whitehall or by some blanket tick-box approach saying “You have met the minimum staffing number; you are therefore delivering good care”. We know from what happened at Mid Staffs that that is not the case. We must do everything we can to support good decisions made in the best interest of patients on the ground. This approach will give trusts the flexibility to respond swiftly to changes in patient demand or to meet the urgent needs of patients who have deteriorated, ensuring that safety and quality care is available.

We need to make sure that patient safety is a constant concern to each and every NHS trust and NHS employee, ensuring that risks to patient safety are always acted on as soon as they are identified, whether it relates to a “never event” or to the number of staff on a ward at any time of the day or night. We expect trust boards to sign off and publish information on staffing levels at least every six months to demonstrate that they are using

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evidence-based tools to calculate their staffing levels and provide assurance on the impact on quality of care and patient experience.

My hon. Friend asked whether the Safe Staffing Alliance proposal for a fundamental standard of no less than one registered nurse to eight patients would be a useful tool for inspection, surveillance and as a benchmark for management to use alongside other safe staffing tools. I hope he will understand that no single dimension and no single tool can ensure patient safety and that setting minimum staffing levels does not necessarily ensure that patients get the best possible care. Patient safety is not just about safe staffing; it is about listening to patients, assessing their needs and staff taking action where there are concerns. The number of staff—not just nurses, but doctors, physiotherapists, health care assistants and all other important members of a multidisciplinary team—needed to look after patients in a cardiac intensive care unit will differ from the numbers and skill mix required in a rehabilitation setting or another care setting—and it will differ from day to day, ward by ward and sometimes even from hour to hour, depending on the care needs of patients.

Ticking boxes on minimum staffing levels does not equate to good care. As the Berwick review made clear, ticking boxes in relation to minimum staffing levels does not equate to good care. Patients must be assessed individually, and the level of care required to ensure their safety must be determined by front-line staff locally, supported in their decision making by a range of factors that determine safe care. That should include staffing levels, but they are not the only issue: the Berwick review made that clear as well.

The Care Quality Commission also considers staffing levels in its inspections of registered providers, including

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acute hospitals. All providers registered with the CQC must ensure that at all times there are sufficient numbers of suitably qualified, skilled and experienced staff. In time, the guidance that we are developing on safe staffing will help providers to understand how to calculate reference staffing levels. It will also be used by the CQC when it assesses whether the right number of staff are employed to provide safe patient care.

My hon. Friend asked whether I agreed that in future the CQC should concentrate more on using safe staffing tools and clear measurements, and on how many registered nurses were on a ward. I do not want to dictate from Whitehall—indeed, I am sure that none of us do—the details of what the CQC will look for; it is important for the CQC to take a flexible approach to its inspections, and to be prepared to pursue different avenues depending on what it finds. What we can all agree on is that the provision of enough trained and skilled staff is vital to the delivery of acceptable care, and that CQC inspections should continue to consider staffing levels.

I must end my speech shortly, so I will write to my hon. Friend about the other points that he raised. I know that we are approaching this issue from the same position, and that all of us care about supporting staff and delivering high-quality care. However, I hope my hon. Friend will agree that safe staffing levels could have perverse consequences, that they are only a part of the picture when it comes to delivering good care, and that it is for the CQC to ensure that it takes an accurate and holistic view when carrying out its inspections to ensure that high-quality patient care is provided in the future.

Question put and agreed to.

7.51 pm

House adjourned.