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Lords amendment 18 disagreed to.
Government amendments (a) and (b) made in lieu of Lords amendment 18.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): I now have to announce the result of the deferred Division on the question relating to the draft Licensing Act 2003 (Mandatory Conditions) Order 2014. The Ayes were 313 and the Noes were 205, so the Ayes have it.
[The Division list is published at the end of today’s debates.]
Child trafficking guardians for all potential child victims of trafficking in human beings
James Brokenshire: I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 16.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Lords amendment 24, and Government motion to disagree.
Lords amendment 6, and manuscript amendments (a) and (b) thereto.
Lords amendment 7, and manuscript amendment (a) thereto.
Lords amendment 8, and manuscript amendment (a) in lieu.
Lords amendments 9 to 15 and 17.
Lords amendment 19, and manuscript amendment (a) thereto.
Lords amendments 20 to 23 and 25 to 36.
James Brokenshire: This group covers the remaining aspects of the Bill. I will focus on Lords amendments 16 and 24 at the outset, which, as has been highlighted, infringe financial privilege.
Lords amendments 16 and 24 require the appointment of a guardian to represent the interests of children when there are reasonable grounds to believe that they are the victims of cross-border trafficking. The Government wholeheartedly share the noble Lords’ intention to protect and support that incredibly vulnerable group of children. Supporting victims, including children, is at the heart of everything that we are seeking to achieve through the draft Modern Slavery Bill. That Bill aims to tackle the appalling crimes of human trafficking, slavery, forced labour and domestic servitude. Those crimes are quite
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separate from the matters that are dealt with in the Immigration Bill. In our judgment, it would be wrong and unhelpful to conflate the two.
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab): Before I came to this place, I spent nearly a decade working with trafficked children. These matters are not separate at all, because many trafficked children come through the immigration system, and often the only state official they come into contact with is a member of the UK Border Agency. These matters are as one and the Immigration Bill is a fitting place to provide support and protection for such children.
James Brokenshire: I agree with the hon. Lady that immigration can be a relevant factor and that it relates to a number of the issues that are involved in trafficking. From visiting charities and meeting victims of trafficking, I understand the compelling stories and issues that they raise. However, at its heart, trafficking is organised crime. Sometimes, when it is viewed simply in the context of immigration, significant aspects of the level of organisation and criminality involved can be missed, as can trafficking within the UK. That is why we judge it important to recognise the broader context so that the solutions that are provided are comprehensive and address all the issues involved. The Government’s approach of seeking to understand that broader context and the organised criminality involved has gained support from non-governmental organisations, charitable organisations and others.
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Consensus is also being gained across the House, because we recognise that victims of child trafficking need specialist and dedicated support and that the current provision of support for those children can be patchy and inconsistent. That was why I announced in January our intention to trial specialist independent advocates for victims of child trafficking. The trial was due to start on 1 July across 23 local authorities, to test how those advocates might improve the experiences of those extraordinarily vulnerable children.
The Government consider that the role of our specialist independent advocates is almost entirely aligned with that of the guardian set out in Lords amendment 16, with two important deviations. First, the Lords amendment would extend the provision of guardianship to adults up to the age of 21, whereas our advocates will instead focus on the needs of children, including those who may be involved in an age-related dispute.
Secondly, the Lords amendment would apply only to victims of cross-border trafficking. The evil of child trafficking extends not only to those who are trafficked across our borders but to children who are trafficked within the UK, as the horrific sexual exploitation of girls in Rochdale and Oxford has shown. That is why our specialist independent advocates will offer support to all victims of child trafficking, not just those trafficked across our borders. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) is making her point from a sedentary position, but I genuinely do not think that there should be a difference between us on this point. There is a genuine desire to address the issue in its
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broadest sense and understand it effectively and properly. I know that members of the Joint Committee on the Draft Modern Slavery Bill are here this afternoon, and they have made an enormous contribution to the consideration of these matters. I do not want to get drawn into a broader debate this afternoon—I hope there will be plenty of further time for that—but I believe that there is a growing unity of view across the House on the need to act and the way in which we should approach this issue.
Lisa Nandy: I welcome the fact that the Minister is trying to look at broader issues of children’s welfare; perhaps I would welcome that even more from the children’s Minister.
There is a particular issue for children who come into this country from overseas concerning their immigration status. Quite often, the reason we do not get trafficking prosecutions and do not really tackle this awful crime is that we do not treat the victims properly. Children who are accommodated under section 20 of the Children Act 1989 do not have anybody with parental responsibility to instruct their lawyer, which is why this debate really matters.
James Brokenshire: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention and for her genuine passion and concern for the welfare and well-being of an incredibly vulnerable group of children. We are taking forward our pilots of child advocates so that we can ensure that there is support for those children, and we must not take lightly our responsibility for protecting them. However, having tested the model of advocacy, we do not want to risk putting in place a model that would fail to deliver safety for that group in a practical way.
Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): I am not sure there is a dispute between the Minister and my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) on the issue. If the model that the Minister advocates were to go ahead, it would cover both trafficked children and those who are not technically trafficked but are pushed around and sold in this country. For many of us, the nub of the debate is whether the Government will meet the spirit of the Lords amendment, which is not only to give permission for the Government to go ahead with the pilots but to see whether the scheme will be rolled out universally when the results of the pilots are known.
James Brokenshire: I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s intervention, for his work in chairing the Joint Committee and scrutinising the draft Modern Slavery Bill, and for the report that has been produced. The Government are considering that report carefully and will respond in due course.
The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that there should not be dispute on this issue. There might, however, be a difference of emphasis—perhaps I might characterise it like that—between me and the hon. Member for Wigan on why I believe the Immigration Bill is the wrong place to deal with this issue in a broad sense. We are, of course, reviewing work on that initial assessment of when children present to different agencies, and the fact that EU children and non-EU children are dealt with differently in the system. We are examining that carefully and scrutinising the way the system operates at the moment. I hope I can reassure the hon. Lady by recognising that we should consider carefully issues
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such as initial identification and the way in which different agencies highlight children through that system, as well as the way the system operates and responds, and the different times taken to make an initial determination. It is important that such work is conducted, and it has been commenced by the Government.
In a practical sense, it is important to bring agencies together and to shine a light, as I characterise it, on crimes that have largely been in the darkness. Vulnerable individuals have not been highlighted and brought to attention, and we need greater recognition of the serious criminality involved, and the appalling exploitation and trade in human misery that underpins so many of the dreadful actions we see.
We believe that Parliament has already considered the draft Modern Slavery Bill, and that when the full Bill is presented that will be the right place to address the issues highlighted by the Lords. The full Bill will include an enabling power to ensure that we have the opportunity to test and assess fully the child trafficking advocate role through a trial, before setting in stone its specific functions. By taking that approach we will achieve what is essentially our collective ultimate aim: to give children who have been subjected to this appalling crime the best chance of dealing with the trauma of their experiences.
Mr Frank Field: I have two questions for the Minister on this important point. I do not think anyone disputes that it might be better for such provision to be part of the Modern Slavery Bill, but the question is about what the Government will transfer to that Bill. The measure passed by their lordships was not to interrupt the Government’s pilots—they are all in favour of those—but to ensure that once the results of those pilots are through, there will be a statutory basis on which to make the service universal when public expenditure allows that movement to occur. Can the Minister give the House that assurance?
James Brokenshire: As I have indicated, our intention is to introduce an enabling power. We will provide a statutory basis for the child trafficking advocate role in the Modern Slavery Bill, which we will be in a position to inform through the trials that are due to start in July. Our concern is that the Lords amendment as currently framed would put those trials at risk—we do not see how the trials could commence if the current provisions are maintained. I hope that by assuring the right hon. Gentleman about the Government’s intention to provide that statutory basis, he will understand that that enabling power will provide the underpinning for further work, which can properly be informed by the results of the trials that will start in the summer.
Mr Field: I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, because this issue is so important. He is proposing that, if we do not oppose their lordships’ changes, he is offering in return the trials and, when we have learnt from the trials, a statutory basis for the service. Is that what the Government want to be in the draft Modern Slavery Bill?
James Brokenshire:
Clearly, having announced the trials at the end of January, I want to see them proceed. It is important that we test the service and the system,
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which is patchy and not as consistent as I want it to be. Equally, some local authorities provide good services and it is important that we recognise that and learn from them. We want an enabling provision in the draft Modern Slavery Bill to be the bedrock that provides the mechanism, which can be informed by the trials that I want to happen, that can be acted on and be the statutory underpinning that allows it to be developed through the experience of the trials. I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will find that helpful in underlining the Government’s commitment not simply to provide a statutory mechanism through that enabling provision, but to deliver practical action. The most important thing is that we provide support, advice and guidance for this extraordinarily vulnerable group, and that we ensure they are supported through the system. That is what matters most.
Mr Hanson: Can the Minister remind us how many trials there will be, and where and when? What is the date of completion and when does he intend to report back to the House?
James Brokenshire: The trials are intended to be conducted in 23 areas, commencing at the beginning of July. We have not, at this stage, set an end point for the duration of the trials, but I want evidence and feedback that can inform the consideration of an enabling power in any modern slavery Bill that comes forward. A statutory mechanism will ensure that the trials can commence and that we can learn and benefit directly from them, enabling a statutory underpinning of the optimum provision.
Lisa Nandy: I am grateful to the Minister for giving way again on such an important issue. The statutory underpinning for advocates is welcome. I want to check that they will be provided for children who are suspected of being victims of trafficking before they have to go through the very difficult process and jump through those hoops to be deemed a victim of trafficking. It is that process that children find very hard to get through. Will advocates be provided at the point at which concerns are raised that the child may be a victim of trafficking, rather than at the point when they have been deemed by the system to be a victim of trafficking?
James Brokenshire: Under the arrangements, each child victim is to be allocated a person with specialist training and expertise in trafficking. They will provide dedicated support and guidance to ensure that the child’s voice is heard. That is often the biggest challenge when there are so many different obstacles, such as language and the trauma the child has gone through. It is intended that the advocates will provide a single point of contact through the care and immigration process and will be responsible for promoting the child’s safety and well-being. That is particularly important in relation to the risk of children being re-trafficked, which is a significant concern. Children have disappeared and the worry is that they have been re-trafficked into slavery.
The scope of the work is being developed further. I note what the hon. Lady has said about initial identification and support throughout the subsequent process. I would expect the trials to involve thorough and appropriate tests, in accordance with the optimal periods during which interventions can take place. I would also expect
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appropriate support to be provided for children who have come forward and are waiting for an initial assessment of the prima facie evidence relating to whether or not they have been trafficked. I recognise the genuine concern that has been expressed by Members and others about the provision of support, and I hope that my assurances will enable the House to support the Government in disagreeing with the Lords amendments.
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Mr Frank Field: If a child was brought into this country and an immigration officer suspected that the child was being enslaved, could the child be referred to the advocate at that point so that the advocate would have a chance of separating the child and a slavemaster?
James Brokenshire: Let me reassure the right hon. Gentleman, and the hon. Member for Wigan, that all children who are dealt with by means of the national referral mechanism—with which the right hon. Gentleman will be familiar—will be provided with advocates as soon as they are identified as suspected victims of trafficking. We intend appropriate support to be provided as soon as children have been referred.
Let me now deal with Lords amendments 1 to 4. When the Bill left this House, clause 1 provided for regulations specifying, first, who would count as a family member for the purpose of removal and, secondly, the arrangements for giving notice of removal. The power to make regulations is exercisable by statutory instrument following the negative resolution procedure.
The Joint Committee on Human Rights asked why the original clause gave discretion over whether family members should be notified of removal when we had clearly stated during a debate that they would always be notified. The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee believed that the definition of a family member should be in the Bill, and that delegation was inappropriate. The Lords amendments are designed to address all the concerns raised by the two Committees: they would insert in the Bill the definition of family members, the requirement always to notify them of removal, and the effect of the notice.
The Government have transformed the approach to returning families with children, in line with their commitment to end the detention of children for immigration purposes. Lords amendments 5 to 9 and 29 to 34 give legislative effect to our current policies on family returns by putting key elements of the new process into primary legislation. That will guarantee that the fundamental elements of the approach cannot be changed without parliamentary oversight and debate.
First, the amendments prevent families from being removed for 28 days after any appeal against a refusal of leave has been completed. That will ensure that they will always have an opportunity to consider their options and avoid enforced return. Secondly, we are placing the independent family returns panel on a statutory footing: its advice must be sought on how best to safeguard and promote the welfare of children in every family returns case in which return is enforced. Thirdly, we are providing specific legislative protection for unaccompanied children so that they are not held in immigration removal centres when we are trying to return them. Finally, we are
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providing a separate legal basis for pre-departure accommodation, independent of other removal centres. It will be used only for holding families with children and only within the existing maximum time limits.
I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) and others have tabled some manuscript amendments to Lords amendments 6, 7 and 8, which were debated in Committee and again on Report in the other place. I am sympathetic to her intentions and the intentions of those who have supported her manuscript amendments. However, although I understand the motivation, her amendments (a) and (b) to Lords amendment 6 and amendment (a) to Lords amendment 7 would widen the definition of families in the family returns process and apply the 28-day period during which a child, relevant parent or carer may not be removed or required to leave the UK to parents who do not live with the child as part of a family unit. They would also stipulate that we could only separate a child from their parents for child protection reasons.
These amendments do not reflect the Government’s returns process. We will always seek to ensure that families remain together during their return, but there are exceptional circumstances in which temporary separation may be necessary. For example, where there is a public protection concern or, indeed, a risk to national security, a dangerous individual might not be considered a threat to their own children but could be a risk to the wider public and we would therefore need to remove them as soon as possible, which might require a family separation.
Manuscript amendment (a) to Lords amendment 8 would mean no unaccompanied child could be detained under Immigration Act powers. Lords amendment 8 reflects the operational reality that unaccompanied children may need to be held for short periods in transit to a port of departure or at the port awaiting removal. These types of removal are rare, but if we do not hold children safely in very limited circumstances while they are travelling unaccompanied in and out of the UK, we increase the risk that they may come to harm by falling prey to traffickers or even absconding. Lords amendment 8 will ensure that detention is for the shortest possible time.
Lords amendments 10 and 11 deal with appeals, and the Government have reformed appeal rights in this Bill to reduce complexity and provide the most effective and appropriate remedy for all cases. Administrative review will provide a faster and cheaper way of correcting caseworking errors, but Lords amendment 10 provides further assurance. It requires that the Secretary of State commission the independent chief inspector within a year of clause 11 being commenced to prepare a report on administrative review. That report must address the specific concerns raised about the effectiveness and independence of administrative review. Lords amendment 11 makes a technical correction to clause 11(5), which provides that the tribunal may not hear a new matter that the Secretary of State has not considered unless the Secretary of State consents to its doing so.
Jeremy Corbyn: On the question of administrative review, is it not really a way of avoiding the inconvenience —from the Home Office’s point of view—of a proper appeal where the individual can be properly represented and the whole case be considered? Is it not just another example of trying to get rid of the impediments of any legal appeal system on behalf of the individual?
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James Brokenshire: The administrative review process is already effective in identifying and correcting caseworking errors. From April to December 2013, 93% of these administrative reviews were completed within 28 days, and 21% of the administrative reviews requested resulted in the original decision being overturned. This shows that the review process can provide an effective way of correcting errors, and it does so in a speedy and efficient manner, so that periods of uncertainty are addressed. I do not think it does anyone any good to have long and protracted periods of uncertainty. Indeed, we are in the perverse position of having 17 rights of appeal, which are being reduced to four, to ensure that matters are dealt with effectively and appropriately, supplementing the administrative review process outlined in the Bill.
The Bill also requires landlords to check the immigration status of their tenants. That is dealt with in Lords amendments 12 to 15. The scheme includes statutory codes of practice giving the technical detail of how it operates. Lords amendments 12 to 15 address concerns of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee to ensure that those codes have parliamentary oversight.
Lords amendments 25 to 28 deal with student accommodation. The Bill already excluded some student halls of residence from the proposed landlord checking requirement. We concluded that there was scope to go further and broaden the exemption for student accommodation. Educational institutions already have a duty to check the immigration status of their international students, and we do not want there to be double-checking of these persons. The changes therefore strike a sensible balance and minimise regulatory burdens on higher education institutions.
Lords Amendments 17, 35 and 36, which were proposed by Lord Avebury in the other place, correct an historical anomaly relating to the treatment of illegitimate children. Nationality law is complex, and anomalies arise, particularly as aspects of family life have changed since the time of the British Nationality Act 1981. In 2006, amendments to the 1981 Act enabled illegitimate children to inherit nationality from a British father in the same way as a legitimate child. Those amendments were not made retrospective. To have done so could have itself caused problems for individuals who were now adult and had made a life for themselves in a different nationality. These amendments enable illegitimate children born to British fathers before 2006 to register as British if they choose to do so, correcting a historical anomaly by providing a route to citizenship for those who want to take it.
Dr Huppert: I thank the Minister for the Government’s support for these amendments, which I tried to put in the Bill but encountered some technical difficulties. Will he join me in paying tribute to those who campaigned for many years to get this injustice changed? People such as Tabitha Sprague, Antonia Fraser Fujinaga and Maureen Box tried very hard, and the many thousands affected by this will be delighted that the Government are now fixing it.
James Brokenshire:
I recognise those who have made the case for this change for some considerable time, and I am pleased that the Government have been able to support these amendments in the other place. I hope that this House will be equally able to support them
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here. It is important to recognise that they have addressed an historical anomaly and now allow that opportunity to the individuals affected of a route to citizenship that was not available to them before.
Fiona Mactaggart: The Minister rightly says that we are dealing with an historical anomaly, and that makes the case for introducing this part of the Bill and commencing it as early as possible. I hope that he can assure the House that he will put his foot on the accelerator to do that, because my constituent whose case prompted Lord Avebury to table these amendments is still stuck in limbo and, like other people, he would like to be able to remedy his situation.
James Brokenshire: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that and I have certainly heard the points she has made.
I know that others wish to speak to their manuscript amendments, but let me just say that Lords amendment 19 clarifies that the Bill does not limit the duty regarding the welfare of children imposed on the Secretary of State or any other person by section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009. Under section 55, the Secretary of State must make arrangements for ensuring that her functions in relation to immigration, asylum and nationality are discharged having regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children who are in the UK. That duty continues to apply, and nothing in the Bill impinges on it.
Lords amendment 20 relates to some technical changes concerning the bank accounts measures. Lords amendments 21 to 23 respond to recommendations of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, ensuring that, where appropriate, affirmative procedure processes apply in respect of certain notices and certain aspects of the sham marriage provisions contained in part 4 of the Bill. I believe that the Lords amendments, with the exception of Lords amendments 16 and 24, improve the provisions, making them clearer and more workable in practice.
Mr Hanson: I, again, thank the Minister for his helpful introduction to the Government’s position on the Lords amendments. I am here to maintain Her Majesty’s official Opposition’s support for them and wish the Government to reflect on that again during today’s debate. I pay tribute to Baroness Butler-Sloss for tabling her amendments in the other place. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) for scrutinising the evidence for the draft Modern Slavery Bill. I have heard what the Minister said about the proposals on a pilot and the enabling power in such a Bill, but I remain unconvinced that that will lead to the action that we want and, indeed, the action that the other place has proposed for consideration.
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The House of Lords voted by 282 votes to 184 for the proposed new clause, which received cross-party support. The measure was introduced by Baroness Butler-Sloss and seconded by Lord McColl, who is a member of a Government party. I remind the House that the House of Lords took that action because there were grave concerns that we should take immediate action. The measure had cross-party support and has been cited by my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead.
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Child trafficking remains a serious issue. If a relevant child has arrived in the United Kingdom and is a potential victim of trafficking, it is important that, once they are identified, an independent individual can monitor and represent the child’s best interests and support them in a defined role. The Lords amendment details a number of key functions for the child trafficking guardian. Those functions could be tested by the pilots that the Minister is examining, and they would give statutory legal backing to a range of issues, including responsibilities to advocate that all decisions relating to the child are made in the child’s best interests, to look at the statutory role to ascertain the child’s wishes and to ensure that the child receives appropriate care, safe accommodation, medical treatment, psychological assistance and education, translation and interpretation services. Those are all positive and, in my view, necessary requirements.
My hon. Friend the Member for Slough spoke about legal access and representation, which are equally important. Advice on legal rights is extremely important, as is keeping the child informed of relevant immigration, criminal, compensation, community care and public law proceedings. We must ensure that we contribute to the identification of a durable plan to safeguard and promote the child’s best interests. We must provide a statutory link between the child and a number of agencies, including immigration services, the police, local authorities and the national health service, to ensure that the child’s best interests are safeguarded.
It is important that someone has a statutory responsibility for the child who has arrived in the United Kingdom, perhaps with a trafficker but without family, so that contact is made with their family to establish what is in the child’s best interests in the longer term. It is important that that person has a statutory role to liaise with the immigration service in handling the child’s case and that they accompany the child to police, immigration and care proceedings. If a child appears before the courts, it is important that somebody is there to advise them.
I am approaching my 57th birthday, as I think you are, Mr Deputy Speaker. If I faced all those trials, even with the life experience that I have, I would it find it difficult to deal with all those issues. A child in a strange country needs the statutory protections provided by the amendment tabled by Baroness Butler-Sloss. It is important, as the Lords amendment makes clear, that a child trafficking guardian should undertake training in a number of things. They should probably be, as the amendment suggests, an employee of a statutory body such a local charity or council, or a volunteer with a charitable organisation.
We are debating whether we accept giving statutory underpinning to those issues, or whether we accept the Minister’s proposal of 23 pilots to commence in July, without a date for completion, with an enabling power—whatever that means in real life—to do some or all of those things. But we need to press the Minister more on the detail of his alternative. The proposal from Baroness Butler-Sloss sets out clearly what is expected of a potential guardian for any trafficked child or any child who is subject to potential trafficking. Even though my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead has done good work in the Joint Committee on the draft Modern Slavery Bill, there is a template that we could agree today and which could return to the other place very shortly, with Royal Assent within a matter of days.
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Mr Frank Field: I hope that what the Minister has said does satisfy the other place, but if we vote against the Government motion tonight, it can decide. That is the advantage. I think that the Minister has satisfied us, but I would not want the other place and those who moved the amendments not to have the possibility to consider when they read Hansard whether they are satisfied.
Mr Hanson: My right hon. Friend makes a valuable point. As I said at the beginning, the vote was 282 to 184 in favour of the proposal. If we reject the proposal today, we are left with no proposal. We are left with a promise of a pilot and a Bill after the Gracious Speech, following the scrutiny rightly given to it by my right hon. Friend.
Dr Huppert: A few of us are slightly confused about the procedure, and the right hon. Gentleman has been here longer than I have, so perhaps he could help us. If the House were to accept the Lords amendment, the Lords would not discuss this again; whereas, if we rejected it, the Lords would have the chance to discuss it. Regardless of merit, is that not the right way round?
Mr Hanson: That is the right way round. The Lords expressed a clear view on the matter. The Lords will be able to examine the Government’s proposal when the Modern Slavery Bill comes forward. But we have a clear template today, and I want to see that enacted. If the Government accept this today, the proposal is a clear template. We have a number of proposals from Baroness Butler-Sloss, and I have gone through them today.
James Brokenshire: I think that the right hon. Gentleman is saying that he wants to accept the Lords amendments because he feels that they are right, but that if he does so, it would not allow any further consideration by the Lords in terms of reflecting on what I have said from the Front Bench.
Mr Hanson: Their lordships have expressed their view clearly, and what the Minister has said today is known already. He announced that he had said in January that he would have pilots on the matter. The draft Modern Slavery Bill has been scrutinised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead, and there is a template that we should support, and that is why I reject the Government’s proposal.
Mr Harper: I think that the right hon. Gentleman is missing the fact that the amendments are narrowly framed. They deal only with children who come to the UK from abroad. On trafficking and modern slavery, I have constant representations about not just focusing on people who come from outside the UK. The Minister has set out a sensible point. If we reject the amendments, as the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) has said, the other place has the option of sending them back to us again, and we can consider them again if it does not think that the Minister’s representations hold water. That is the right course of action.
Mr Hanson:
There is clearly a common interest but a disagreement on procedure. If the Minister has a view about the impact of children being trafficked in the UK, such as in the case in Rochdale that he mentioned,
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he has the draft Modern Slavery Bill to contribute to those matters. But there is a clear will from the other place, which was supported on a cross-party basis, and I would wish to see that as the template for discussion today.
Mr Harper: One thing that would not be helpful is to put these measures in place and have a procedure that deals with foreign national children when the draft Modern Slavery Bill, expertly scrutinised by the right hon. Member for Birkenhead, will put in place yet another process for children who happen to be UK nationals. It would be much more sensible to have one process that deals with all children who are victims of slavery. We should not make the system more complicated than it need be.
Mr Hanson: Imperative action is needed now. I have dealt with a number of Bills over the past few years and seen the Government bringing back amendments and amending their own legislation not six months after they introduced it. There is potential here today for a clear statement and clear action on the international trafficking of children. The pilots that the Minister brings forward can be undertaken.
Fiona Mactaggart: Does my right hon. Friend agree that if the Minister gave a commitment, which he has not done, that this comprehensive amendment, with all the powers for advocates included, would be in his proposed Modern Slavery Bill, we would not feel the need to press this to a vote? However, the Minister has not yet given that promise.
Mr Hanson: My hon. Friend is, as ever, correct. I have not yet had, following my intervention on the Minister, a closing date for his proposed pilot. We do not know what the outcome of that pilot will be. We have taken a principled position on the amendments from Baroness Butler-Sloss that there is scope for that to be done immediately. I am talking about not just us here, but UNICEF, Anti-Slavery International, Barnardo’s, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children and Amnesty International. An EU directive, which may not find favour with everyone in the House, says that we should consider that step. I understand that position, because 5.5 million children globally are trafficked each year. The UK Human Trafficking Centre identified 549 child victims in 2012. The national referral mechanism recognises 349 victims. A number of trafficked children face being sold into the sex trade and being exploited through work, cannabis farming, forced begging and sexual exploitation.
There is a need now to send out a strong signal that we want to take action on that in England and Wales. Trafficked children who arrive in Scotland value the care and support that they receive from their appointed guardians. That system works in Scotland, yet constituencies such as mine and those of my right hon. and hon. Friends still face real difficulties in that regard. Such a system operates not just in Scotland, but in many western European states, including the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. There are templates for a system and it is time that we put in place a legislative framework for it. I wish to see that undertaken and supported today.
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In passing, may I say that I welcome the changes on residential accommodation that the Government have accepted from the other place? In particular, I welcome the changes on student accommodation. I am pleased that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) is in his place today, as he has pressed over the past weeks and months, in Committee, to me personally and to the Minister, a very strong case to ensure that all student accommodation was included in the Bill. It is good that, following the discussions in Committee and the representations from members of Sheffield university’s students union whom my hon. Friend brought to London, the Minister has accepted that point. The Minister will have our support on those Lords amendments that have been accepted on residential landlords, students and other areas, because they are important issues.
I look forward to hearing what the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) has to say on her manuscript amendments. The Lords amendment has our support, and I hope that it will have the House’s support in due course.
5.30 pm
Sarah Teather: I have tabled a series of manuscript amendments today to seek clarification from the Minister. I hope that he will have an opportunity to respond to my points at the end of the debate.
Let me deal first with amendment (a) to Lords amendment 8, which is my principal concern. The ending of routine detention of children in the immigration system is one of the areas of which I am most proud in my record in government. The Government can be extremely proud of that and it has made a significant difference to many children’s lives. Many thousands of children used to be detained in the immigration system and there is significant evidence of the harm that that causes to children’s mental health.
It was very hard work to get to the 2010 agreement, which followed a painstaking process of negotiation, but it has made a significant difference. Trying to enshrine it in legislation is an extremely positive step and it is important that what happened before can never happen again, but with these issues the devil is always in the detail. I am not yet persuaded that the amendments, which we have not had an opportunity to debate as they were tabled in the Lords, have the detail correct.
I have a number of questions, which I have not been able to get answers to in private, so I hope that the Minister might be able to answer them today. I tabled amendment (a) because I do not understand why we would reasonably need powers to detain unaccompanied children in this way. As drafted, the Government amendments afford less protection to unaccompanied children than to those who have a claim as part of a family. If they are with their family, the family returns panel process is enacted. No such protection applies to unaccompanied children.
If a family needs to be held prior to deportation for a short period of time they are held in Cedars, which has Barnardo’s and specialist social workers working with it and has a carefully designed process to ensure that the welfare of children is paramount. An unaccompanied child who needs to be held for a short period of time will be held in a holding facility, and at the moment they
7 May 2014 : Column 231
do not have any rules for best practice. Successive Governments have held that question in abeyance and my colleague Lord Avebury has managed to drag out of the Government a commitment finally to try to bring forward some rules. I am very pleased to see that, but the conditions are very different from those in Cedars.
The amendments, as drafted, do not quite meet the Government’s guidelines. I acknowledge that there is currently no time limit for the detention of unaccompanied minors, so the 24-hour limit in the Government’s amendments is at least a step forward, but chapter 31 of the immigration and nationality directorate instructions states that
“detention will occur only on the day of the planned removal to enable the child to be properly and safely escorted to their flight and/or to their destination.”
Although the amendments imply that people could be held overnight, the rules do not suggest that, so I would appreciate the Minister’s response on that point. I see that he is dealing with a matter of whipping, so I do not know whether he heard me. Perhaps he can be refuelled from the Box to ensure that that point is answered.
Chapter 45 of the enforcement instructions and guidance states:
“Unaccompanied children (i.e. persons under the age of 18) must only ever be detained in very exceptional circumstances, for the shortest possible time and with appropriate care”.
The new clause inserted by Lords amendment 8 also contains the power for unaccompanied children to be removed without removal directions already being in place so long as the decision whether or not to give such directions is likely to be positive from the Home Office’s point of view. That does not seem to me to be very satisfactory.
The serious question is: why do we need to detain unaccompanied children at all? I have asked officials about particular cases in which this might apply, and they gave me the example of a Japanese student who wanted to come to the UK to study but found that the institution they were going to study at had suddenly been dissolved. We would need to put them on a plane rapidly, so we would have to hold them for a short period of time. The Minister gave the example of someone who might have to be detained for their own safety to prevent them from being trafficked. That makes me sigh, because it is a typical Home Office response. The Home Office always assumes that the natural reaction to any problem is enforcement, but our duty in this case is protection rather than enforcement. We tend to mistake those two things and it is a psychological trait of the Home Office always to assume that the answer is enforcement and that is precisely why it cannot always be trusted to come up with policy in this area.
James Brokenshire indicated dissent.
Sarah Teather: I am sorry that the Minister is upset, but it means that he has heard me.
If an unaccompanied, vulnerable child turns up at a police station, the police do not put them in a cell, but get in touch with social services. Why can we not do the same for unaccompanied children who come here as migrants or to apply for asylum? Why do we need to detain them? Surely our duty is to protect them. There
7 May 2014 : Column 232
is plenty of legislation that allows us to do that, and I have not heard an example of detention being required as opposed to protection with appropriate powers of social services.
What really bothers me is whether this is a preamble to a more significant change in policy on the forced removal of unaccompanied, asylum-seeking children. Currently, the United Kingdom does not routinely remove unaccompanied, asylum-seeking children, but it is probably the worst kept secret that the Home Office wants to be able forcibly to remove more unaccompanied children, particularly to Albania and Afghanistan. My concern is that the Government’s amendment leaves wide open the possibility of a drastic expansion of forced removal of children. Instead of moving towards the ending of detention of children for immigration purposes, the clause could allow more unaccompanied children to be detained for the purposes of removal. I am desperately hoping that the Minister will tell me that my fears are ill founded, and I will be delighted if he does so. I hope that he can answer my other specific points about why we cannot simply involve social services and protect children in the small number of such cases instead of detaining them using enforcement powers.
My amendments to Government amendments 6 and 7 also relate to child detention and essentially ask for clarification and strengthening of our 2010 commitment not to split families to achieve compliance with the immigration process. The Minister will be aware that Barnardo’s, which works closely with the Government at Cedars, has produced a report stating that family splits are, unfortunately, sometimes used to effect enforcement of immigration provisions. We agreed in 2010 that we would not do that, and my amendments seek to strengthen that commitment and to make it clearer. In particular, there are sometimes cases when a parent lives away from the family temporarily. The obvious case is when they are in immigration detention, but similar cases are when someone has been sectioned, is in hospital or is in prison. I am worried that the legislation as drafted does not capture such cases or consider the best interests of children, and is not in the spirit of the agreement that we negotiated in 2010.
Finally, I tabled an amendment to Lords amendment 19 to clarify that the best interests of the child should continue to be a primary consideration in all cases involving children. The Joint Committee on Human Rights criticised the Government, saying that they have
“not explained how in practice the provisions in the Bill are to be read alongside the section 55 duty. Without such explanation there is a danger that front-line immigration officials administering the legal regime will be unclear about the relationship between the children duty in section 55 and the new tests introduced by the Bill which use different and unfamiliar language.”
Lords amendment 19 goes some way to meeting that concern, and I explored some of the issues in amendments tabled on Report. It confirms that it is necessary to take into account the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children in the UK, but I am worried that it does not go far enough because the section 55 duty applies only to the Home Secretary and not to the courts. My amendment makes it clear that consideration of children’s welfare should always be the primary concern. That is necessary because there is growing evidence that recent immigration rules are negatively impacting on decision makers’ understanding of what
7 May 2014 : Column 233
factors should be taken into account when considering the best interests of children. For example, research last year by Greater Manchester’s immigration aid unit into unaccompanied, asylum seeking children found that, in seven of 10 cases analysed, the Home Office failed to carry out any determination of the child’s best interests. Similarly, last year’s audit of Home Office procedures by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees highlighted the lack of any systematic collection or recording of information necessary to determine a child’s best interests. That includes the lack of a process to obtain the view of the child. This proposal simply tries to make sure that the Government do the things they say are their priority. At the moment, the Bill still leaves some confusion.
Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): I want briefly to seek clarification in relation to international students and the changes that have been made to the Bill in relation to landlord checks. I pay tribute to Lord Hannay and others who have pressed this point in the House of Lords. I regret that students are included in the Bill at all, and I know that many Members on both sides of the House feel that they have no place in this debate.
The point relates to the changes that have given powers to universities to nominate students to occupy accommodation. That is a welcome move, and I am glad that the Government have accepted it. Speaking for the Government, Lord Taylor said in the other place that
“nominating is just the naming of an individual as being a student at a higher education institution…It is a form of vouching for the genuineness of the student’s immigration status. That is all.”
Baroness Warwick asked whether it would be
“legal and proper for the landlord to enter into that arrangement even though at that point, because of the time involved and so on, the potential tenant has not actually got their visa?”
This is crucial, because there is a brief period between being accepted into an institution and being enrolled during which many students sort out their accommodation. In response to Baroness Warwick, Lord Taylor said:
“Yes, absolutely: that is the case.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 3 April 2014; Vol. 753, c. 1056-1057.]
That involves a potential contradiction.
Will the Minister confirm in his closing remarks, or in intervening on me now, that an institution can nominate a person who has accepted a university place and has been given a confirmation of acceptance to study, but is awaiting a visa, so that they can confirm their accommodation before they have been issued with their visa?
Mr Harper: I am grateful to be called to speak, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will make sure that I leave the Minister sufficient time to respond to the points that have been made. I will keep a close eye on you, and if you think I am not leaving adequate time, I am sure you will indicate firmly that I should sit down.
I support what the Minister said in rejecting Lords amendments 16 and 24. I very much want us to deal with those who have been trafficked and victims of modern slavery, but I want us to implement a system that will apply to all children who have been trafficked, and a system that works. I want that decision to be informed by the pilots that the Minister is conducting.
7 May 2014 : Column 234
That is because in England and Wales the local authority has the legal responsibility to look out for the best interests of those children. In some local authorities, that system works very well, but in many it does not. The legal position is clear, but what is important is not what the law says, by itself, but how it is implemented.
That is why I want to make sure that the Minister runs those pilots and looks at their results. He has clearly stated that he will make sure there is an enabling power in the draft Modern Slavery Bill and that the detail of how we bring these powers into effect can be informed by the pilots. He gave a very clear commitment at the Dispatch Box to use what is learned from the pilots to bring that into force. That is a sensible procedure. I agree with the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field): I think there is no disagreement in the points made by him, by the Minister and by the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), who has long experience of these matters. We all want to achieve the same thing, and I want to make sure that it is done in the most practical way possible.
I welcome the moves in amendments 5 to 9 and 29 to 34 to put on to the Statute Book the Government’s current policy on the family returns process. I previously gave some commitments at the Dispatch Box when this matter was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), and when the Bill was going through Committee, in saying that the Government would bring forward those amendments in the House of Lords. I am very pleased that my hon. Friend the Minister and his colleague, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, were able to do so. That is a great step forward that locks these provisions into place.
The manuscript amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) are not helpful. The issue of an individual living in a household with the child is important. Otherwise, those who have no right to be in the United Kingdom but who happen to have a child here for whom they have no parental responsibility and with whom they have no contact will use that child as a legal tool to avoid being removed from the UK. What is worse, it would encourage people who have no right to be in Britain—a judge set this out clearly in his legal judgment on a specific case in which he jailed the relevant couple—to have children for the specific purpose of avoiding removal from the country. That is not in the interests of children or of the proper working of the immigration system, so I urge the House not to support the manuscript amendments.
5.45 pm
My hon. Friend also addressed the provisions in Lords amendment 8 on the detention of unaccompanied children. I can think of a clear example. She mentioned the need to put children in contact with social services, but relevantly qualified officials are not always immediately available if a child turns up. If there is a delay of a few hours while waiting for a social services person to turn up, the child will, for their own protection, be detained by a Home Office official. That is, technically and legally, detention. If Home Office officials did not have the power to do that, there would be nothing to stop the child leaving the port of entry and potentially coming to harm. I do not think the Minister would be carrying out his duty to protect such children if he allowed that. It is a common occurrence. If Members talk to staff at
7 May 2014 : Column 235
ports, they will realise that social services officials are frequently not available immediately when unaccompanied children turn up. Technically, therefore, those children are detained. There is a limit on that detention and I think the proposal is sensible.
Overall, the bulk of the Lords amendments are sensible and I hope they will be accepted. I think that the Minister has good reason for wishing us to reject two of the Lords amendments, and I do not think the manuscript amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central would improve the Bill. In fact, I think they have the potential to damage the interests of children and I hope the House will reject them.
James Brokenshire: This has been a useful opportunity to touch on a number of important issues. In some ways, we have strayed from the strict provisions of the Bill—understandably, I think—particularly with regard to trafficking and the protection of children.
On the pilots and the point of referral, I reassure the hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) that the intention is to refer all children suspected of being victims of trafficking to the national referral mechanism. They will be allocated a child trafficking advocate at the point of identification. The advocate will be able to provide support as soon as the child is identified in those first crucial hours. I think that is the point the hon. Lady made. In other words, the child advocate will be available when a child has been identified and the intention is to make a referral to the NRM. I hope that gives the hon. Lady the assurance she seeks. I recognise that, during the initial hours in which a child is identified, they will be very vulnerable and questions will be asked about what should happen to them, so they will need an advocate to support them during that early phase. I am grateful to the hon. Lady for allowing me to provide that clarification.
In response to the Opposition’s Front-Bench spokesman, the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), I have clearly set out our approach to the enabling power. It is important that we crack on with the trials and get those pilots under way, so that effective support can be provided quickly—that children will benefit and that we have the statutory underpinning. I know that the right hon. Gentleman is not satisfied by that and that he supports Lords amendment 16, although it deals only with cross-border cases and covers those up to the age of 21. There is clearly a difference between us. I hope that the House of Lords will consider the points made by the Government and recognise our clear intent and commitment to seek to provide such support.
I want to address head-on the point about student accommodation made by the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield), who I know takes a close interest in the issue of support for students and in the sector generally. A tenancy can be offered on a conditional basis when the visa is processed, and we will deal with that point when making the necessary codes and regulations to implement the scheme. I am sure that he will take a close interest in that further detail when it is published after the passage of the Bill. I hope that that clarification will help him and the sector at this time.
My hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather) highlighted several points, particularly about unaccompanied children. My hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper) commented on the
7 May 2014 : Column 236
short-term need—the period in which social services should respond to the arrival of an unaccompanied minor in the UK—and the provision is intended to cover precisely those circumstances. I echo the hon. Lady’s comments about the tremendous work done by Barnardo’s, and she was right to draw attention to the support it provides at Cedars, but that support is intended for a longer period. In relation to unaccompanied children, we are talking about hours, rather than any longer period. Cedars can obviously provide support for a period of days in certain circumstances, as she knows. No unaccompanied child can be detained, but the operational reality is that unaccompanied children may need to be held for short periods in transit to a port of departure or while waiting after their arrival.
We will always seek to ensure that families remain together during their return, although temporary separation may sometimes be necessary to ensure that a family can return safely. We would not separate a family solely for a compliance reason; it will be done only when it is considered to be in the best interests of children for them temporarily to be separated from their parent or when the presence of one of the parents or carers is not conducive to the public good.
On the position of my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central on Lords amendment 19, the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children who are in the UK—
5.53 pm
Three hours having elapsed since the commencement of proceedings on consideration of Lords amendments, the debate was interrupted (Programme Order, this day).
The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83F), That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 16.
The House divided:
Ayes 307, Noes 241.
Division No. 267]
[
5.53 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Alexander, rh Danny
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Steve
Baldry, rh Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burt, rh Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Jonathan
Evans, Mr Nigel
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Hancock, Matthew
Hands, rh Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Sir Nick
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, rh Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kennedy, rh Mr Charles
Kirby, Simon
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Sir Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, rh Sir Richard
Paice, rh Sir James
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Sir John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Thornton, Mike
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr Sam Gyimah
and
Mark Hunter
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, rh Mr Alan
Caton, Martin
Champion, Sarah
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Curran, Margaret
Danczuk, Simon
David, Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Docherty, Thomas
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Hermon, Lady
Heyes, David
Hilling, Julie
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kane, Mike
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonald, Andy
McDonnell, Dr Alasdair
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Lucy
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Simpson, David
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Teather, Sarah
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Weir, Mr Mike
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Nic Dakin
and
Tom Blenkinsop
Question accordingly agreed to.
7 May 2014 : Column 237
7 May 2014 : Column 238
7 May 2014 : Column 239
7 May 2014 : Column 240
Lords amendment 16 disagreed to.
The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the Questions necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that time (Standing Order No. 83F)
Question put, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 24.
The House divided:
Ayes 304, Noes 240.
Division No. 268]
[
6.7 pm
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Steve
Baldry, rh Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Beresford, Sir Paul
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burt, rh Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Cox, Mr Geoffrey
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davies, Philip
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Eustice, George
Evans, Jonathan
Evans, Mr Nigel
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Foster, rh Mr Don
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
Gibb, Mr Nick
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Grieve, rh Mr Dominic
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Hancock, Matthew
Hands, rh Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Harvey, Sir Nick
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Horwood, Martin
Howarth, Sir Gerald
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, rh Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kennedy, rh Mr Charles
Kirby, Simon
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Sir Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Munt, Tessa
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Ottaway, rh Sir Richard
Paice, rh Sir James
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Sir John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, rh Hugh
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Sandys, Laura
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stuart, Mr Graham
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Thornton, Mike
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Tyrie, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr Sam Gyimah
and
Mark Hunter
NOES
Abbott, Ms Diane
Abrahams, Debbie
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benn, rh Hilary
Benton, Mr Joe
Berger, Luciana
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Bryant, Chris
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Byrne, rh Mr Liam
Campbell, rh Mr Alan
Caton, Martin
Champion, Sarah
Chapman, Jenny
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cruddas, Jon
Cryer, John
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Curran, Margaret
Danczuk, Simon
David, Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Davies, Geraint
De Piero, Gloria
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Docherty, Thomas
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Francis, Dr Hywel
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glass, Pat
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Hepburn, Mr Stephen
Heyes, David
Hilling, Julie
Hodge, rh Margaret
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hoey, Kate
Hopkins, Kelvin
Hosie, Stewart
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Irranca-Davies, Huw
Jackson, Glenda
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Jowell, rh Dame Tessa
Kane, Mike
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan
Mactaggart, Fiona
Mahmood, Mr Khalid
Mahmood, Shabana
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McCrea, Dr William
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonald, Andy
McDonnell, Dr Alasdair
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Alison
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKenzie, Mr Iain
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Mearns, Ian
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Mr Jim
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nandy, Lisa
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Paisley, Ian
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Lucy
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reed, Mr Jamie
Reed, Mr Steve
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Robertson, Angus
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sarwar, Anas
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Shannon, Jim
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Simpson, David
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Thomas, Mr Gareth
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Umunna, Mr Chuka
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watson, Mr Tom
Watts, Mr Dave
Weir, Mr Mike
Whiteford, Dr Eilidh
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wishart, Pete
Woodcock, John
Woodward, rh Mr Shaun
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Tellers for the Noes:
Tom Blenkinsop
and
Nic Dakin
Question accordingly agreed to.
7 May 2014 : Column 241
7 May 2014 : Column 242
7 May 2014 : Column 243
7 May 2014 : Column 244
Lords amendment 24 disagreed to.
Remaining Lords amendments agreed to, with Commons financial privileges waived in respect of Lords amendments 7, 16 and 24.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83H), That a Committee be appointed to draw up Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their amendments 16 and 24;
That James Brokenshire, Stephen Gilbert, Mr David Hanson, Anne Milton and Phil Wilson be members of the Committee;
That James Brokenshire be the Chair of the Committee;
That three be the quorum of the Committee;
That the Committee do withdraw immediately.—(Claire Perry.)
Committee to withdraw immediately; reasons to be reported and communicated to the Lords.
7 May 2014 : Column 245
Petition
EU Ban on import of Indian Alphonso mangoes
6.20 pm
Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): If you were at Prime Minister’s questions today, Mr Deputy Speaker, you would know that I asked the Prime Minister about the EU mango ban, a decision taken by the European Union without consulting this House or British Ministers. This vote took place with officials. Last week I asked local residents who were affected by this to gather a petition so I could present it to the House, and in a very short time 329 local residents have signed it—people who regularly buy and eat mangoes and those who sell them. I present this petition today on behalf of Hasmukh Pabari, Darmesh Lakhani, president of the Belgrave road traders association, Joga Sandhu, Shahidullah Khan and Ratilal Patel.
The Petition of residents of Leicester East,
Declares that the EU ban on the importation of Alphonso mangoes from India is unjust, that petitioners are anxious about the hugely detrimental impact that this ban will have on the livelihoods of millions of people in, and on the economies of, both the UK and India, and further declares that there has been a significant lack of consultation with both the Parliament and the affected people.
The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs do everything possible to reverse this ban, to develop an action plan on how best to progress in this matter and to better communicate with the people affected.
And the Petitioners remain, etc.
7 May 2014 : Column 246
Self-Build and Custom-Build
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Gavin Barwell.)
6.22 pm
Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): It is a great pleasure to have an Adjournment debate on the importance of self-build and custom-build housing, and particularly to do so in national self-build week, so may I start by thanking you, Mr Speaker, for allowing this debate in national self-build week?
Grand Designs Live has been taking place at the ExCeL centre in the last few days and has had over 100,000 visitors, and I know that a number of Department for Communities and Local Government Ministers have attended the event, which was greatly appreciated. It was an excellent thing to support. I also want at the outset to give credit to Mr Ted Stevens for all his work in this area. He runs the National Self Build Association, NaSBA, and he has done much, against the odds, to promote this sector and help people understand that building their own property, or getting a piece of land and getting somebody to build a property for them, is possible.
My interest is as the recent founder and chairman of the new all-party group on self-build, custom-build and independent housebuilding. I should also say at the outset that the term “self-build” is in some ways perhaps almost uniquely unhelpful as it immediately creates the impression that everyone who wishes to do this has to learn how to become a plumber or an electrician or a joiner, and that simply is not the case. Probably the best definition I have come across was in a paper by Alex Morton, then of Policy Exchange, called “A Right to Build: Local homes for local people.” I should say that Alex Morton has done a great deal to promote the interests of this sector and to draw the Government’s attention to its value. In answer to the question about what we mean by self-build, he stated:
“The notion of self-build…does not mean that the entire process is handled by a single individual from start to end. It means that an individual or family has had serious input in the design and construction of a house, a house they then live in for a prolonged period of time.”
At the moment, part of self-build’s image in this country is as running on a spectrum from the “muesli fringe” to the eccentric wealthy wives of hedge fund managers. Those elements do exist, and I say nothing against either of them. We might say that what the muesli fringe are trying to do with community-led, bottom-up solutions is reach for ways of dealing with housing problems in an environment in which they feel powerless. What I would like to do, and what I would like to see the Government do, is make it even easier for their voices to be heard. The idea of a muesli fringe at one end and hedge fund managers’ wives at the other is a caricature. Self-builders make up an important but small part of the housing market, with about one in 10 houses being built in that way.
The self-build market is divided into a number of different components. Perhaps the most established is what we might even call the “established market”, comprising people in their 40s, 50s or early 60s who already own a property and have the cash available to buy a plot, and whose typical budget is in the region of
7 May 2014 : Column 247
£250,000 to £350,000. Such people are primarily driven by the opportunity to have the home they really want and to reduce running costs. A moot point, which we might deal with later, is why the big national house builders, the top 10 of which are responsible for 50,000 houses a year, do not already build houses that have extremely low running costs. They build houses that have lower running costs than the ones they were building 20 years ago, but it is possible to build a house that costs £200 a year to run, as I found when I visited a Passivhaus in my constituency that was built by the excellent Saffron Housing Trust. As I was told that, I thought that that is exactly the sum we pay out on the winter fuel allowance each year, and it would be much better to have homes that cost little to heat rather than paying so much money to people to insulate poorly constructed and insulated homes of an old design. Of course this goes further than that because, as anyone who has watched “Grand Designs” will know, it is possible to build a house that actually makes people money—it makes an income because it is so fuel-efficient.
The sector I just described, the more established market, is only one part of the self-build market—or the interest for self-build, as I should call it. The potential boom that could arise in self-build will be driven by a different group of people: a younger generation in their 20s, 30s and perhaps 40s, many of whom are struggling to afford a new home and have much smaller budgets, perhaps of £100,000 or up to £200,000. Such people will be driven by the opportunity to have a say in the home they really want, but mainly by the affordability benefit.
One of the most important aspects of this debate is the idea that self-building is an eccentric or odd activity, because in fact the UK is the outlier. Nearly all the other countries in the developed world do this much better than we do. In Denmark 40% to 45% of houses are constructed in this way. In France and Germany, countries that are in many ways comparable to the UK, although France has a bit more land, the figure is more like 50% to 60%. The figure for Sweden is 65% and even the figure for little Austria is 80% or higher. The issue is the structure of our entire market and how difficult that makes it for anyone who would like to self-build to get things off the ground. People often do not have a real or effective choice that they can turn into a reality; it is an aspiration rather than a reality in many cases.
That brings me to the issue of choice in the marketplace. When we ask what people spend most of their money on, we find that for nearly all of us it is where we live, whether we are renting or buying, yet more genuine choice exists in the market for beer, apples or perhaps even toothpaste than in the market for housing. It is an extraordinary paradox that where people spend the most money, they also have the least choice. That happens because of a collision of at least three important facts. The first fact is land—they have stopped making it. There is no land any more—there is a permanent scarcity of land, which leads to fact No. 2: the planning system. There is a plethora of rules and regulations that have been developed over many decades to deal with that scarcity. Thankfully, the Government have slimmed down the planning regulations from an indigestible 1,300 or 1,400 pages to something that the lay person can begin
7 May 2014 : Column 248
to read and get their head round. That was very much overdue, and I give enormous credit to the Government for doing so.
The system still has to cope, whether there is a 52-page policy framework or whether there are hundreds and hundreds of pages. It has to deal with the intrinsic issue of the tension between competing land uses. Fact No. 3 is the nature of the stock market and our very open capital markets. I mentioned earlier that the top 10 house builders do about 50,000 houses a year; the top 25, including the next 15, do another 25,000. The top 25 are responsible for about 74,000 or 75,000 houses a year. Because they are large and publicly quoted, they have relatively easy access to the capital that they need. They buy up the land that they need to build, and sit on it, land banking it in some cases for years.
“Land banking” is something of a misnomer, because it implies that people buy the land, but they do not always do so. What they often do is buy the option to buy it. They pay a landowner a sum for the right to buy the land for a specified period in future, and by doing so they can obtain the advantages of owning the land—crucially, preventing anyone else from owning it or even trying to buy it—without the inconvenience and cost of capital outlay. That approach, from their point of view, is much more flexible.
The current system does not give large house builders an incentive to become long-term place makers and place shapers. I do not blame large, national house builders for acting as they do: they are merely acting rationally within the constraints of the system. In fact, one could say that large-scale house builders are not so much incentivised as required by the current system to take as short-term a view as possible. They have to get in, build the houses and sell them. They have to pay as small a contribution as they can get away with towards the infrastructure; then they have to get out.
What is the result? Kevin McCloud, the presenter of “Grand Designs” who spoke at a packed all-party meeting—I am pleased that DCLG Ministers attended—said:
“The consumer has been on the receiving end of a pretty poor deal. We build some of the poorest performing, most expensive and smallest homes in Europe. That’s not something to celebrate.”
It could be quite different. According to Ipsos MORI, 53% of the adult population would like to build a house at some stage in their life, and 30% would like to do so in the next 15 years. Some 14% are researching how and what to do, and whether they can finance it. More than 1 million people want to buy a site and start building in the next 12 months.
Much of that is aspirational thinking demand rather than actualised demand, if I can put it that way without getting too Hegelian. The fact is that it is very, very difficult. If someone tries, the first thing they encounter is some official at the council saying, “Have you done the archaeological survey?” They will say, “I’m sorry, I didn’t know that I needed to do an archaeological survey.” At every stage, the process is made as difficult as possible. The two key issues are the availability of land for purchase by individuals and finance. I pay tribute to Lloyds bank, which helped to sponsor the report published by the university of York a year ago. That report was entitled “Build-it-yourself? Understanding the changing landscape of the UK self-build market”.
7 May 2014 : Column 249
Stephen Noakes, who is a senior official at Lloyds bank and head of mortgages, came to our last meeting with DCLG Ministers.
The university of York report points out—and Mr Noakes from Lloyds bank dwelt on this—the need to create structures that de-risk the process and make it easier for financiers to come in and take a serious interest and a serious stake in this space.
The university of York report states:
“Both individual and group self-build are characterised throughout by uncertainty. In part this is due to the components of self-build being organised as a series of silos and disjunctures. Each step (land acquisition, design, planning, finance etc.) is often taken without any certainty that subsequent steps will be realised. Uncertainty brings delay and sometimes additional costs. Few steps have been taken towards forging more integrated approaches, but these could bring significant benefits in terms of greater certainty, less risk, control of costs and speed of completion.”
A variety of different mechanisms might be used for that. Off-site construction, which is now a completely different world from what it was when we spoke pejoratively of prefabs 50 years ago, is one such example. The Passivhaus that I mentioned earlier, which I visited in my constituency, had triple-glazed windows that were constructed off-site and installed as completed units. Why is it that all house builders in this country do not as a matter of standard policy install triple-glazed windows, because it would be much better and much more energy efficient in the long term?
The Government’s response so far has been quite encouraging. The announcement in the Budget, which did not get a huge amount of coverage, but which I was enormously excited by, was for £150 million to help councils to develop serviced plots. A serviced plot is what it sounds like. It is a plot where, instead of being a scruffy piece of land where people cannot see which bit they own and which bit they do not, the difficult bits have already been done. The roads and sewers have been constructed and the foul and fresh water have been connected for the housing, as have the electricity and the gas. There is a lot of experience of that on the continent. In the Netherlands, where this has been done in Almere, which is just opposite Amsterdam on the other side of the IJsselmeer, if 100 serviced plots are put on the market at the same time, people queue through the night, like they do outside Harrods before the January sale, for the chance to buy one.
There is enormous pent-up demand in this country as well, but it just does not know where to go or how to get a foothold. That is why the Government’s initiative to promote the development of more serviced plots, essentially to take steps towards a much more integrated approach, is so important. It is—I say advisedly—only £150 million. I would have preferred it if it had been even more, but it is not nothing. It will do a considerable amount for the self-build sector. It will make a big difference in the next couple of years. I fully expect it to be a success, particularly as the money is recyclable. The money has to be put in for the plot. Simple mathematics tell us that £150 million for 10,000 plots is £15,000 a plot, but the money is returned, and it can be used again. That is the great attraction of this approach. I hope that once it has proved successful, as I am sure that it will, the Government will take this considerably further.
What I had not appreciated when I started getting interested in this was the breadth of possibilities of self-build and custom-build. My first interest in the
7 May 2014 : Column 250
sector was spawned by representing a very rural constituency where many young couples simply cannot imagine how they will get on the housing ladder, let alone in the village where they grew up, have a stake in their own community, own their own house and start a family there in the way that they saw their parents do.
The multiple of average income that is required to buy an average house is now nine times, when years ago it was three or four times. The position has got a lot worse even in the past 10 years or so. One has only to look at the decline in the proportion of people who own a house to see how desperate many young people must feel and how difficult they must regard the future in terms of achieving what their parents achieved, which they might have thought that they, too, would be able to achieve.
I have begun to realise that the potential is much wider. I pay particular tribute to Stella Clarke, who runs the Community Self Build Agency in the Bristol area and who came to one of our all-party group meetings with Kevin McCloud, for finding young men from ethnic minorities, who might have been rioting five or 10 years ago, and getting them to the point where they are building a stake in their own community. This is not necessarily about everyone learning how to become a plumber or an electrician, but it is also true that this space does present enormous opportunities for the skills agenda.
Saffron housing association, in addition to doing great work locally, has launched an apprenticeship scheme for micro-businesses that find it too difficult to take on the administration of having an apprentice. It has taken 20 students from Diss high school and said to the micro-businesses, “We will handle all the paperwork for you to have an apprentice. You just take the apprentice.” The scheme has been so successful that the Minister for Skills and Enterprise who is responsible for apprenticeships has been to see it. The scheme will be repeated again this year.
I do not think for one moment that we will all learn how to become plumbers, electricians and joiners, but we should not underestimate the scheme’s potential to help people who have felt marginalised, disaffected and cut out to have a stake in society. They can physically help in the process of building their own stake in society.
Berlin has gone further and proved that this movement can be done at scale, which is why I plan to take a group of parliamentarians and others to Berlin at the end of next month. It is not simply a case of 50 units here, or 100 units there. Some 190,000 dwellings have been constructed in Berlin by self-build and custom-build groups. What is fascinating in Berlin is that the municipality—the local council or the Berlin senate—actively seeks to help. For example, a group of parents will come together and say to the local council that they want to build a block of apartments with a garden in the middle and a school. The social glue that holds them together is the fact that their children all have some special need. The parents have a common interest in developing something that meets their children’s needs. The local council will say, “How can we help you?” If it can be done there, it can be done here. In Berlin, a group of 25 women between the ages of 60 and 70 decided that they wanted to build an apartment block together. They are friends, and if one of them goes into hospital to have a hip replacement, she has 24 friends whom she knows will be there to look after her dog.
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The building group model has tremendous possibilities, and the fact that this does not simply mean private individuals for private ownership is under-appreciated. I am a huge supporter of private individuals owning private property and having their own stake in society, but this model has been used successfully in the Netherlands, Berlin and elsewhere for community groups, rent and shared ownership. The possibilities are very broad indeed.
The possibilities for institutional investment are much broader than might first have been realised. If an institutional investor wants to gain exposure to the residential housing market, their option is to buy shares in one of the large national house builders. However, as Saffron housing has proved recently, it is possible even for a small to medium-sized housing association to launch a bond. Saffron recently launched a £125 million bond, which will be drawn down in stages over the next 30 years or so to finance its development programme. If there is an appetite among institutional investors for investing in that sort of vehicle, it is quite possible that if we gave those investors, who anyway have a need to invest for the long term, the opportunity to invest directly in unlocking land and infrastructure, there would be a considerable response, particularly if it were done in a way that coupled their investment horizon needs in a way that enabled place making to occur rather than simply the construction of housing units.
Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): My hon. Friend is making a compelling speech. I worked in commercial property real estate for 20 years before I came to this place, and the holy grail, particularly on residential property, is to get institutional investment flowing inwards to residential developments. May I just say that that is a non-political point? It is the crucial issue if we are to get housing balanced within the UK.
Mr Bacon: I am delighted by my hon. Friend’s supportive intervention. I believe that that is achievable, as there is institutional appetite and institutional demand out there. The thing that I find extraordinary about the current residential housing market, which to me proves that there is a systemic problem, is that we seem either to be almost in a state of sclerosis, with almost nothing happening and all the land on which anything might happen being optioned up to the hilt by large-scale house builders, so that individuals and small commuter groups can simply cannot get hold of it, or to be almost perpetually talking about the next housing bubble and how we need to dampen down demand.
On that point, I do not believe that the Help to Buy scheme has been a contributor to any putative housing bubble. I feared when it was launched that that would be the case, and we considered the issue in detail in the Public Accounts Committee when we took evidence from Sir Bob Kerslake as permanent secretary at the Department for Communities and Local Government. It is absolutely clear, and would be to anyone who considered the evidence, that the Help to Buy scheme has not contributed in any significant way to a housing bubble.
The housing market cannot function as it should, in a reasonably non-volatile way, if we swing between these wild extremes of inactivity and housing bubbles when
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the need for people to have a roof over their heads does not go away. It is a sustainable long-term need that ought to be capable of being met through institutional investment that is, after all, looking for a long-term sustainable return. I do not think that it is beyond the wit of man or woman to link those two, and there are interesting possibilities, although in this short debate I shall not have time to explore them fully.
After the Budget, I stopped an aide of the Prime Minister in the corridor to thank him for the £150 million provided in the Budget for serviced plots. When I explained that it was for self-build and the nascent but not yet legalised right to build that we want to see, his instant response was to say, “Oh, I want to do that.” The number of people I have conversations with who say, “Oh, I have always wanted to do that,” is why I believe the Ipsos MORI figures.
There is a difference between having an aspiration and being able to do something about it and there is such a big gap between the two because of the structure of our housing market, which does not really meet customers’ needs. The Government have made an enormously important start with this £150 million. This approach could become the new normal, but the fundamental shift that we need is to start treating the building of houses as if customers mattered.
6.47 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Kris Hopkins): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Mr Bacon) on securing this debate and pay tribute to him for his work as chairman of the new all-party group on self-build, custom-build and independent housebuilding. I appreciated the opportunity to address the all-party group a few months ago. Let me also put on record my appreciation for the massive contribution that Ted Stevens has made to the custom-build and self-build industry, driving it forward positively.
As we have heard, my hon. Friend is very passionate about this issue and is a persuasive advocate of custom and self-build housing. He has rightly highlighted the huge potential that broad sector has to help support the need to build more houses in this country. The debate could not be better timed. As he mentioned, we are in the middle of the second national custom and self-build week, which was launched on Saturday by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government at Grand Designs Live. That is an initiative that my Department is delighted to support, as it draws national attention to the huge potential of this form of housing to become a mainstream housing option for any aspiring home owner in this country.
Why does this question matter to the Government and why do we support the sector? Unlike the previous Administration, who did absolutely nothing to support self-builders and custom-builders in this country, the Government are committed to and are offering strong support to this part of the sector. We face a huge challenge in building the number of homes that are needed, and we must look at all opportunities to stimulate that supply. Supporting more self-build and custom-build housing is part of a much bigger package of housing supply initiatives the Government are introducing to get more homes built. Some 165,000 affordable houses
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will be completed next year to add to the housing supply. We have just closed on bids to deliver another 170,000 houses in the years to 2018. We have allocated some £1 billion to deliver 10,000 houses in the private rented sector and we have launched a prospectus to encourage councils to bid for £300 million to deliver housing across the sector.
My hon. Friend kindly mentioned the Help to Buy scheme, and I agree that it is a huge encouragement to enable people to get on the housing ladder. Some figures have been issued in the last 24 hours that are pertinent to the debate. Under the Help to Buy scheme, the average mortgage is £145,000 with an average deposit of £36,000. While it is a vital part of our offer on housing, it constitutes only 2% of transactions, and I do not believe it is fuelling a bubble.
Many people would love to own their own home. As my hon. Friend said, research by Ipsos MORI has shown that more than 1 million people want to do so in the immediate future. That strong level of interest is not surprising. Custom-build and self-build housing offers people more choice and the ability to design a home to suit their own needs, leading to greener and better designed homes. In many cases, that is more affordable than buying a home in the conventional way. A report published by Lloyds Banking Group concluded that self-builders can save between 20% and 25% on the cost of an equivalent home on the open market, a crucial saving for those who are trying to get on the housing ladder.
There are wider benefits. A strong custom-build sector helps diversity and strengthens our house building industry, bringing new opportunities for medium and small house builders. It can also speed up the supply of new homes where there is strong demand for plots. It sustains and creates new jobs and supports local economies. As my hon. Friend said, it helps young people who are going into apprenticeships and vocational jobs—an important part of the economy—which are facilitated by this type of build.
Let us be clear. The custom-build sector already makes an important contribution to our housing supply with around one in every 10 homes being built or commissioned by individuals. That is much more than many volume builders are already building. It is important to say that custom-build and self-build are already facilitating a turnover of around £4 billion per year.
There is significant growth potential in the sector. Among our European neighbours, more than half of all new homes are built and commissioned by self-builders—about 60% in Germany and more than 80% in Austria. We must do more to facilitate that, which is why we have looked at our national planning policy framework for land to ensure that councils can assess and plan for the needs of people who want to build their own homes. I encourage my hon. Friend and the all-party group to contribute to the call by Nathalie Elphicke and Keith House for evidence on how to get and utilise more local authority land for building houses.
As has been mentioned, there is a real challenge in securing finance. We have launched a £30 million custom-build homes fund to provide repayable finance for larger custom-build developments. We have given self-build groups access to some £65 million under the affordable
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housing guarantee programme. We are engaging with lenders to ensure that there are more self-build mortgages available in the sector.
This Government now have a strong reputation for removing red tape. Self-builders are now exempt from the community infrastructure levy, potentially saving them thousands of pounds on individual projects. We have just finished consulting on a similar policy to change section 106 charges. We have also simplified design and access statements and made it easier to change the use of buildings to housing, which the industry has welcomed.
An important aspect is making sure that we can get advice out to consumers and developers. We have worked with the custom and self-build sector to launch an online portal to provide better information for self-builders. It has received more than 35 million hits and now attracts about 20,000 new users each month. That is fantastic progress and a clear demonstration of the interest in this sector. We were delighted to be able to secure Kevin McCloud as the new industry champion. He is doing an excellent job in raising public awareness of the benefits of custom-build. We have worked closely with the National Self Build Association to facilitate a range of new guides and advice to councils, developers and consumers on self-build and custom-build housing.
We have had some successes to date. There are up to 5,000 new plots in the pipeline and many new projects coming forward across the country, with thousands more to come. Some 60 councils have brought forward land and new initiatives, including Stoke, Cherwell, Woking, Hereford, Cambridge and Newcastle. We now have 26 lenders who are interested in this sector—10 more than in 2011. We have cut red tape, as I mentioned, and put portals in place to make sure that people have access to information. Making custom-build a mainstream housing option is very important for this Government, but we recognise that there is still a long way to go in doing so. The next step is to end the myths about this sector, and that will be a significant move forward.
In the Budget, we made some major commitments to driving this forward. I recognise and appreciate my hon. Friend’s comments about the consultation that is about to take place on right to build. That proposal recognises that some councils already provide land for custom-build, in response to local demand. We want to encourage that further. We will identify a small number of councils that want to act as vanguards to test how the right-to-build model would work in practice. We have been very generous, I might say, in providing £150 million in repayable finance. As he said, there is the potential for more if we can get the traction we need. The idea that we can recycle that money is extremely important. We want to get those shovel-ready plots out there delivering 10,000 custom-build houses.
Mr Bacon: My hon. Friend mentioned a couple of points that I want to test him on. The community infrastructure levy was removed from self-builders, rightly, although that creates a financial incentive for local councils to be less keen on self-build because they do not get the benefit. Does he agree that it is absolutely vital to hold the feet of local councils to the fire in fulfilling the duty that has now been placed on them to measure demand for self-build and to say what they are going to do about it?
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Does the Minister also think that there is scope for encouraging enlightened national house builders with large land banks—some of which are at an advanced stage and some of which are less so—to make a proportion of that development available for self-build? If they did, they would probably sell them rapidly and that would encourage them to do more.
7 pm
Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)).
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Gavin Barwell.)
Kris Hopkins: On councils, my hon. Friend will forgive me if I leave contemplations about the community infrastructure levy to the planning Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles). What I would say, as a former council leader myself, is that, in the majority of cases, we are building houses for people who live in those communities. Really strong leadership is about understanding demand and this particular way of responding to it. I want more councils to embrace that and we need to encourage them to do so. We need to provide leadership from this House by offering guidance through the right to build and other measures that demonstrate that there is a clear outcome for communities and the individuals who live there.
I have seen lots of evidence that the major builders are not land banking, but that does not mean that there is not huge potential, particularly for local authorities
7 May 2014 : Column 256
that own a vast amount of land. I encourage my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk to respond to the call for evidence from Elphicke and House, which I think will begin to shape the debate about this part of the housing offer, which will be facilitated by the local authorities that own that land.
I have touched on the Budget. We want to look at how we can extend the Help to Buy equity loan scheme. High-level conversations are being held about how we can facilitate that and we will make further announcements in the future. It is important to make sure that we provide support to the sector through Help to Buy and, in particular, to understand the demands of the sector. Money will be released in stages for a custom-built house, while it is usually released in one transaction for a conventional build.
I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend that custom and self-build should be—and I hope will be through our efforts—a mainstream housing option in this country. Given the Government’s measures and the support of my hon. Friend in challenging the myths about custom and self-build, I believe we are firmly on the path of realising that ambition. I again thank him for securing this debate and look forward to working with him and other hon. Members to help support this important sector and enable more people to realise their ambition to build their own home.
7.3 pm
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Deferred Division
Licences and Licensing
That this draft Licensing Act 2003 (Mandatory Conditions) Order 2014, which was laid before this House on 9 April, be approved.
The House divided:
Ayes 313, Noes 205.
Division No. 264]
AYES
Adams, Nigel
Afriyie, Adam
Aldous, Peter
Alexander, rh Danny
Amess, Mr David
Andrew, Stuart
Arbuthnot, rh Mr James
Bacon, Mr Richard
Baker, Norman
Baker, Steve
Baldry, rh Sir Tony
Baldwin, Harriett
Barclay, Stephen
Barker, rh Gregory
Baron, Mr John
Barwell, Gavin
Bebb, Guto
Bellingham, Mr Henry
Benyon, Richard
Berry, Jake
Bingham, Andrew
Birtwistle, Gordon
Blackman, Bob
Blackwood, Nicola
Blunt, Crispin
Boles, Nick
Bone, Mr Peter
Bottomley, Sir Peter
Brady, Mr Graham
Brake, rh Tom
Bray, Angie
Brazier, Mr Julian
Bridgen, Andrew
Brine, Steve
Brokenshire, James
Brooke, Annette
Browne, Mr Jeremy
Bruce, Fiona
Buckland, Mr Robert
Burley, Mr Aidan
Burns, Conor
Burns, rh Mr Simon
Burrowes, Mr David
Burstow, rh Paul
Burt, rh Alistair
Burt, Lorely
Byles, Dan
Cable, rh Vince
Cairns, Alun
Cameron, rh Mr David
Campbell, Mr Gregory
Campbell, rh Sir Menzies
Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair
Carmichael, Neil
Carswell, Mr Douglas
Cash, Mr William
Chishti, Rehman
Clappison, Mr James
Clark, rh Greg
Clegg, rh Mr Nick
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Coffey, Dr Thérèse
Collins, Damian
Colvile, Oliver
Crockart, Mike
Crouch, Tracey
Davey, rh Mr Edward
Davies, David T. C.
(Monmouth)
Davies, Glyn
Davis, rh Mr David
de Bois, Nick
Dinenage, Caroline
Djanogly, Mr Jonathan
Dodds, rh Mr Nigel
Dorries, Nadine
Doyle-Price, Jackie
Drax, Richard
Duddridge, James
Duncan, rh Mr Alan
Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain
Dunne, Mr Philip
Ellis, Michael
Ellison, Jane
Ellwood, Mr Tobias
Elphicke, Charlie
Evans, Jonathan
Evennett, Mr David
Fabricant, Michael
Farron, Tim
Field, Mark
Foster, rh Mr Don
Francois, rh Mr Mark
Freeman, George
Freer, Mike
Fullbrook, Lorraine
Fuller, Richard
Gale, Sir Roger
Garnier, Mark
Gauke, Mr David
George, Andrew
Gilbert, Stephen
Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl
Glen, John
Goldsmith, Zac
Goodwill, Mr Robert
Gove, rh Michael
Graham, Richard
Grant, Mrs Helen
Gray, Mr James
Grayling, rh Chris
Green, rh Damian
Greening, rh Justine
Griffiths, Andrew
Gummer, Ben
Gyimah, Mr Sam
Hancock, Matthew
Hands, rh Greg
Harper, Mr Mark
Harrington, Richard
Harris, Rebecca
Hart, Simon
Hayes, rh Mr John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, Mr David
Heaton-Harris, Chris
Hemming, John
Henderson, Gordon
Hendry, Charles
Herbert, rh Nick
Hermon, Lady
Hinds, Damian
Hoban, Mr Mark
Hollobone, Mr Philip
Hopkins, Kris
Howell, John
Hughes, rh Simon
Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy
Hunter, Mark
Huppert, Dr Julian
Hurd, Mr Nick
Jackson, Mr Stewart
James, Margot
Javid, rh Sajid
Jenkin, Mr Bernard
Johnson, Gareth
Johnson, Joseph
Jones, Andrew
Jones, rh Mr David
Jones, Mr Marcus
Kawczynski, Daniel
Kelly, Chris
Kennedy, rh Mr Charles
Kirby, Simon
Kwarteng, Kwasi
Lamb, Norman
Lancaster, Mark
Lansley, rh Mr Andrew
Latham, Pauline
Laws, rh Mr David
Leadsom, Andrea
Lee, Dr Phillip
Lefroy, Jeremy
Leigh, Sir Edward
Leslie, Charlotte
Letwin, rh Mr Oliver
Lewis, Brandon
Lewis, Dr Julian
Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian
Lidington, rh Mr David
Lilley, rh Mr Peter
Lopresti, Jack
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Sir Peter
Lumley, Karen
Macleod, Mary
Main, Mrs Anne
May, rh Mrs Theresa
Maynard, Paul
McCartney, Jason
McCartney, Karl
McCrea, Dr William
McIntosh, Miss Anne
McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick
McPartland, Stephen
Menzies, Mark
Metcalfe, Stephen
Miller, rh Maria
Mills, Nigel
Milton, Anne
Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew
Moore, rh Michael
Mordaunt, Penny
Morgan, Nicky
Morris, Anne Marie
Morris, David
Morris, James
Mosley, Stephen
Mowat, David
Mulholland, Greg
Mundell, rh David
Murray, Sheryll
Murrison, Dr Andrew
Neill, Robert
Newmark, Mr Brooks
Newton, Sarah
Nokes, Caroline
Norman, Jesse
Nuttall, Mr David
O'Brien, rh Mr Stephen
Offord, Dr Matthew
Ollerenshaw, Eric
Opperman, Guy
Osborne, rh Mr George
Ottaway, rh Sir Richard
Paice, rh Sir James
Parish, Neil
Patel, Priti
Paterson, rh Mr Owen
Pawsey, Mark
Penning, rh Mike
Penrose, John
Percy, Andrew
Perry, Claire
Phillips, Stephen
Pickles, rh Mr Eric
Pincher, Christopher
Poulter, Dr Daniel
Prisk, Mr Mark
Pritchard, Mark
Pugh, John
Raab, Mr Dominic
Randall, rh Sir John
Reckless, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr John
Rees-Mogg, Jacob
Reevell, Simon
Reid, Mr Alan
Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm
Robathan, rh Mr Andrew
Robertson, Mr Laurence
Rogerson, Dan
Rosindell, Andrew
Rudd, Amber
Ruffley, Mr David
Russell, Sir Bob
Rutley, David
Sanders, Mr Adrian
Scott, Mr Lee
Selous, Andrew
Shannon, Jim
Shapps, rh Grant
Sharma, Alok
Shelbrooke, Alec
Shepherd, Sir Richard
Simmonds, Mark
Simpson, David
Simpson, Mr Keith
Skidmore, Chris
Smith, Chloe
Smith, Henry
Smith, Julian
Smith, Sir Robert
Soames, rh Nicholas
Soubry, Anna
Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline
Stephenson, Andrew
Stevenson, John
Stewart, Bob
Stewart, Iain
Stewart, Rory
Streeter, Mr Gary
Stride, Mel
Stunell, rh Sir Andrew
Sturdy, Julian
Swayne, rh Mr Desmond
Syms, Mr Robert
Tapsell, rh Sir Peter
Teather, Sarah
Thornton, Mike
Thurso, John
Timpson, Mr Edward
Tomlinson, Justin
Tredinnick, David
Truss, Elizabeth
Turner, Mr Andrew
Uppal, Paul
Vaizey, Mr Edward
Vickers, Martin
Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa
Walker, Mr Charles
Walker, Mr Robin
Ward, Mr David
Watkinson, Dame Angela
Weatherley, Mike
Wharton, James
Wheeler, Heather
White, Chris
Whittaker, Craig
Whittingdale, Mr John
Wiggin, Bill
Willetts, rh Mr David
Williams, Mr Mark
Williams, Roger
Williams, Stephen
Williamson, Gavin
Willott, Jenny
Wilson, Mr Rob
Wollaston, Dr Sarah
Wright, Jeremy
Wright, Simon
Yeo, Mr Tim
Young, rh Sir George
Zahawi, Nadhim
NOES
Abrahams, Debbie
Alexander, rh Mr Douglas
Alexander, Heidi
Ali, Rushanara
Allen, Mr Graham
Ashworth, Jonathan
Austin, Ian
Bailey, Mr Adrian
Bain, Mr William
Balls, rh Ed
Banks, Gordon
Barron, rh Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beckett, rh Margaret
Begg, Dame Anne
Benton, Mr Joe
Betts, Mr Clive
Blackman-Woods, Roberta
Blears, rh Hazel
Blenkinsop, Tom
Blomfield, Paul
Blunkett, rh Mr David
Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben
Brennan, Kevin
Brown, Lyn
Brown, rh Mr Nicholas
Brown, Mr Russell
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burnham, rh Andy
Campbell, rh Mr Alan
Caton, Martin
Champion, Sarah
Chapman, Jenny
Chope, Mr Christopher
Clark, Katy
Clarke, rh Mr Tom
Clwyd, rh Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ann
Connarty, Michael
Cooper, Rosie
Cooper, rh Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Creagh, Mary
Creasy, Stella
Cunningham, Alex
Cunningham, Mr Jim
Cunningham, Sir Tony
Dakin, Nic
Danczuk, Simon
David, Wayne
Davidson, Mr Ian
Denham, rh Mr John
Dobbin, Jim
Docherty, Thomas
Donohoe, Mr Brian H.
Doran, Mr Frank
Doughty, Stephen
Dowd, Jim
Doyle, Gemma
Dromey, Jack
Dugher, Michael
Durkan, Mark
Eagle, Ms Angela
Eagle, Maria
Edwards, Jonathan
Efford, Clive
Elliott, Julie
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Engel, Natascha
Esterson, Bill
Evans, Chris
Farrelly, Paul
Field, rh Mr Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flello, Robert
Flint, rh Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Fovargue, Yvonne
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gilmore, Sheila
Glindon, Mrs Mary
Goodman, Helen
Greatrex, Tom
Green, Kate
Greenwood, Lilian
Griffith, Nia
Hain, rh Mr Peter
Hamilton, Mr David
Hamilton, Fabian
Hanson, rh Mr David
Harris, Mr Tom
Havard, Mr Dai
Healey, rh John
Hendrick, Mark
Heyes, David
Hilling, Julie
Hodgson, Mrs Sharon
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, rh Mr George
Hunt, Tristram
Jamieson, Cathy
Jarvis, Dan
Johnson, rh Alan
Johnson, Diana
Jones, Graham
Jones, Helen
Jones, Mr Kevan
Jones, Susan Elan
Kane, Mike
Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald
Keeley, Barbara
Kendall, Liz
Khan, rh Sadiq
Lavery, Ian
Lazarowicz, Mark
Leslie, Chris
Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma
Lewis, Mr Ivan
Love, Mr Andrew
Lucas, Caroline
Lucas, Ian
Mactaggart, Fiona
Malhotra, Seema
Mann, John
Marsden, Mr Gordon
McCabe, Steve
McCann, Mr Michael
McCarthy, Kerry
McClymont, Gregg
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonald, Andy
McDonnell, Dr Alasdair
McDonnell, John
McFadden, rh Mr Pat
McGovern, Jim
McGuire, rh Mrs Anne
McKechin, Ann
McKinnell, Catherine
Meacher, rh Mr Michael
Meale, Sir Alan
Miller, Andrew
Moon, Mrs Madeleine
Morden, Jessica
Morrice, Graeme
(Livingston)
Morris, Grahame M.
(Easington)
Mudie, Mr George
Munn, Meg
Murphy, rh Paul
Murray, Ian
Nash, Pamela
O'Donnell, Fiona
Onwurah, Chi
Osborne, Sandra
Owen, Albert
Pearce, Teresa
Perkins, Toby
Phillipson, Bridget
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Lucy
Qureshi, Yasmin
Raynsford, rh Mr Nick
Reeves, Rachel
Reynolds, Emma
Reynolds, Jonathan
Robertson, John
Robinson, Mr Geoffrey
Rotheram, Steve
Roy, Lindsay
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, rh Dame Joan
Sawford, Andy
Seabeck, Alison
Sharma, Mr Virendra
Sheerman, Mr Barry
Shuker, Gavin
Skinner, Mr Dennis
Slaughter, Mr Andy
Smith, Angela
Smith, Nick
Smith, Owen
Spellar, rh Mr John
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry
Tami, Mark
Timms, rh Stephen
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Karl
Twigg, Derek
Twigg, Stephen
Vaz, rh Keith
Vaz, Valerie
Walley, Joan
Watts, Mr Dave
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Hywel
Williamson, Chris
Wilson, Phil
Winnick, Mr David
Winterton, rh Ms Rosie
Wright, David
Wright, Mr Iain
Question accordingly agreed to.
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