Formal Minutes
Wednesday 30 April 2014
Members present:
Rt Hon Keith Vaz, in the Chair
| Nicola Blackwood
James Clappison
Mr Michael Ellis
Paul Flynn
| | Lorraine Fullbrook
Dr Julian Huppert
Mark Reckless
Mr David Winnick
|
Draft Report (Counter-terrorism), proposed by the Chair,
brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph
by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 95 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 96 read, as follows:
The withdrawal of passports is a vital tool in preventing UK citizens
from travelling to foreign conflicts. We understand the need to
use the prerogative power to withdraw or withhold a citizen's
passport. Given that the estimates of foreign fighters are in
the low hundreds, we are surprised that it has only been used
14 times since April 2013 and recommend that, in all appropriate
circumstances where there is evidence, the power is utilised as
an exceptional preventative and temporary measure. However, we
note that its use is not subject to any scrutiny external to the
executive. We recommend that the Home Secretary report quarterly
on its use to the House as is currently done with TPIMs and allow
the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation to review the
exercise of the Royal Prerogative as part of his annual review.
Amendment proposed, in line 8, to leave out from 'TPIMS' to the
end of the paragraph.—(Lorraine Fullbrook.)
Question put, that the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 3 | Noes, 5 |
| Mr James Clappison | Nicola Blackwood
|
| Michael Ellis | Paul Flynn |
| Lorraine Fullbrook | Dr Julian Huppert
|
| Mark Reckless |
| David Winnick |
Question accordingly negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 97 to 140 agreed to.
Paragraph 141 read, as follows:
The National Crime Agency was established as a national mechanism
as part of the changing landscape of policing. Like all new organisations,
it is still seeking to establish a strong identity and its own
remit. For instance, we remain concerned that the NCA does not
have full operational capacity in Northern Ireland. The Metropolitan
Police have a wide remit which has many complexities and the current
difficulties faced by the organisation lead us to believe that
the responsibility for counter-terrorism ought to be moved to
the NCA in order to allow the Met to focus on the basics of policing
London. The work to transfer the command ought to begin immediately
with a view to a full transfer of responsibility for counter-terrorism
operations taking place, for example within five years after the
NCA became operational, in 2018. When this takes place, it should
finally complete the jigsaw of the new landscape of policing.
Amendment proposed, in line 4, to leave out from 'Ireland' to
the end of the paragraph and add:
'It may be that in due course, the National Crime Agency should
take over overall responsibility for counter-terrorism; however,
we believe it would be wise to first see how this newly formed
organisation carries out its responsibilities. Moreover, we endorse
the remarks by David Anderson that a pretty good operational relationship
exists between the police and intelligence. In addition, we also
note the remarks of Sir David Omand over the existing arrangements.'.—(Mr
David Winnick.)
Question put, that the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 2 | Noes, 5 |
| Paul Flynn | Nicola Blackwood
|
| David Winnick | Michael Ellis
|
| Lorraine Fullbrook |
| Dr Julian Huppert |
| Mark Reckless |
Question accordingly negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 142 to 157 agreed to.
Paragraph 158 read, as follows:
Furthermore we recommend that the Commons membership of the Intelligence
and Security Committee should be elected like other select committees
and that the Chair, who should always be a member of the Commons,
ought to be subject to election of the whole House, as is the
case for Select Committees. We further recommend that the Chair
should always be a member of the largest opposition party.
Amendment proposed, to leave out from the beginning of the paragraph
to 'We' in line 4.—(Lorraine Fullbrook.)
Question put, that the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 1 | Noes, 7 |
| Lorraine Fullbrook | Nicola Blackwood
|
| James Clappison |
| Michael Ellis |
| Paul Flynn |
| Dr Julian Huppert |
| Mark Reckless |
| David Winnick |
Question accordingly negatived.
Another amendment proposed, in line 4, to leave out 'We further
recommend that the Chair should always be a member of the largest
opposition party'.—(Lorraine Fullbrook.)
Question put, that the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 4 | Noes, 4 |
| Nicola Blackwood | Paul Flynn
|
| James Clappison | Dr Julian Huppert
|
| Michael Ellis | Mark Reckless
|
| Lorraine Fullbrook | David Winnick
|
Whereupon the Chair declared himself with the Noes.
Question accordingly negatived.
Another amendment proposed, in line 5, after 'party' to insert
', and not a former Minister with responsibility for any of the
agencies'.—(Dr Julian Huppert.)
Question put, that the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 4 | Noes, 4 |
| Paul Flynn | Nicola Blackwood
|
| Dr Julian Huppert | James Clappison
|
| Mark Reckless | Michael Ellis
|
| Mr David Winnick | Lorraine Fullbrook
|
Whereupon the Chair declared himself with the Noes.
Question accordingly negatived.
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 159 to 168 agreed to.
Paragraph 169 read.
Amendment proposed, at the end, to add:
'While there has been much controversy over the leaked Snowden
material in the Guardian and elsewhere, it is undeniable that
the revelations of such widespread surveillance, including for
that matter the hacking of mobile phones of very senior members
of governments, including the German Chancellor, has understandably
opened a wide and international public debate, not least in the
United States, on whether such extensive surveillance, and on
such a scale, should take place. If anything, media outlets, including
the Guardian, that have responsibly reported on aspects of the
material should be congratulated. We note that the paper received
the Pulitzer Prize this year for its reporting on these issues.'.—(Mr
David Winnick.)
Question put, that the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 3
Paul Flynn | Noes, 4
Nicola Blackwood
|
| Dr Julian Huppert
David Winnick | James Clappison
Michael Ellis
|
| Lorraine Fullbrook |
| |
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 170 to 177 agreed to.
Annexes agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Seventeenth Report of
the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chair make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available,
in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 6 May at 2.30 pm
| 
